As noodle is unwilling to identify himself, I have taken the liberty of collecting his pinside history for your viewing pleasure.

A member of this site for just over two weeks, he has made a total of 42 posts and 40 of these have been defending the indefensible company that was Bumper Action.

Welcome to pinside.

Running for the hills........let it be known that you are in bed with Del and having little pinheads with him. I'm glad I never eveeeerrrrrr dealt with bumper action

You may not be a salaried employee but IMHO you have some sort of stake in this, since it seems you've just signed up to only post in the Bumper threads other than the 2 post in Playboy.

See you beat me to it.

No problem brother. It is actually quite heartening when our friends in the US express their support.

Keep on posting.

The local forums here are a closed shop with regard to this saga. I alerted the mods here to the Bumper financial crisis months ago and it seems that was not considered in the pinball publics interest. Here we have had no chatter on the forums since the liquidation and the initial threads were closed by mods here. Bumper is a commercial sponsor of the forum which I see as a huge conflict of interest but that's another story I guess.

It's only pinball that's true...... But this situation stinks.

Since the site owner/admin arcade king works for a sponsor on the site(not bumper) that he doesn't disclose, it's hardly surprising that he locks threads like this. Free jardine , unlock the thread and hopefully the truth can come out from open and public discourse.

My list of people who could say something but so far have chosen to say nothing.

1. Rob Farrell
2. Jersey Jack Guarnieri

I know they don't have to.....but this is pinball, not Wall Street.

70+ people, their families and their children were waiting for a dream come true NIB WoZ pinball. These guys owe them some courtesy in explaining exactly what is happening.

There is nothing to explain. Someone took deposits. Someone went out of business. Deposits are gone. The end. The question is what recourse those who lost money have. That would depend on Australian bankruptcy law and the history of financial transactions that occurred before the BK. Since the records have been destroyed, it would be up to the depositors to prove their claims to the dissolution administrator and get their tiny slice of any cash that may be recovered from the previous or current owners (and anyone who benefited from any of the business' misdeeds).

The time to take action is now!

Noodle box is the new owner of bumper, maybe he is trying to put people of the scented track.

What would that mean to those games? Did JJP get some of the deposit payment and then gets to sell them again? Are there a bunch of LES back on the market then?

This is actually a big problem for JJP because they have a fiduciary duty to qualify their distributors and in a situation like this, they may share liability. If I were a victim, you can bet damn well that JJP would be in direct communication with me over this debacle. The victims need his statement ASAP.

Not sure what jersey vote ban jack can really say at this stage. He wouldn't be any wiser than the rest of us plebs. Only thing he can do is keep/start pushing out planks and deal with the fallout once we know how bad this bed shit really is.

Actually he can confirm/deny if bumper have taken any hobbit money and who his new aus distributor is going to be?

That's a good question. There are a lot of unanswered questions that will come out from this whole thing. Hopefully people that made deposits aren't left out in the cold, but who knows.

Are you kidding me? JJP is the supposed recipient of the deposits that have been absconded. JJP can confirm/deny receipt of the money and the detail of any money received. If JJP got money, they owe it back to the trustee or administrator as their known over there. No wonder we hear nothing from JJP. If he did get deposits on 70 units, I'm sure he's not too excited to pay that back. And if he does, the people who gave that money are in line behind others who will have higher priority claim to it.

This is a really bad deal for anyone who plunked down.

The chronology of the deposits as I'm following the story is that they were paid to old owner, new owner doesn't pay rent on building still owned by old owner, old owner keeps deposits. This may be for part of or all of woz money and if there is any money that made it into the new owners hands than it's tied up in the 468k in question.

Wasn't the idea of the deposits to protect the consumers in case jjp took a dirt nap? I'm sure the irony isn't lost on anyone apart from maybe the poor 70 odd folk impacted by this. Nothing that I've read would lead me to believe that any woz money has made it's way to little jack.

I'm struggling to understand how you come to the conclusion that no WOZ money went to JJP. If the deposits were legitimately collected and Bumper was in line to get the machines, certainly JJP would need that money to reserve that production. The purpose of deposits was to reserve a place in line for a machine and to finance the production run. How would either of these protect the consumer? The consumer was footing all the risk as far as I can tell.

The purpose of the money being in trust was suppose to protect the consumer but it now appears that this never happened and the money was/is being held by the old owner and if there's any left it's in the 468k that this post is about. As far as I know I haven't seen a post by bumper or jjp stating that money has been transferred.

From my understanding the deposits guaranteed a machine and that balances/deposits would be paid once planks produced and proof of shipping was provided.

I'm more than willing to listen to a different conclusion based info on here, aa and elsewhere.

You say a lot is fact but you threw a "I believe" when talking about the possibility of a side step, odd.

Now you say it it not!? Lets say you are correct on the procedures that are happening. Best I can tell you are correct, but I do not do business there. In your quote above you say the new company takes over liabilities, cash, and so on. I think the part people are getting stuck on is that if a company in this situation sghould not have cash. If they did they should pay their debts and employees. Anything else does not seem legit not matter how it is explained. They incurred the debts, the employees earned that time off.

I have no horse in that race, just interesting to watch this and they to follow. You do keep avoiding questions.

I though Jack commented on this once that he received about 20% of the money for a bunch of machines there, still waiting on the rest. If it is sitting there in holding and not paid to JJP, that does not sound good. We will see.

Here's what I posted in May 2013 on the JJP forum...... Jack Guarnieri had posted earlier in the year confirming the WoZ part payment (deposits) had been made - around $150K. They still owed him the balance.

"On Friday, May 10, 2013 10:21:02 PM UTC+10, lukex wrote:
Like I say, give them a call.

Pretty sure the 'deal' originally involved the sending of deposits i.e. the money being used to send the first container? Bumper seemed to have stalled the sending of the balance as was stated on this forum by Jack a couple of months ago - the sum of around $400K.

Until they pay that balance (and maybe they have since Jack made it public??), I doubt any company would send more product.

Could all be OK if they have made the final payment from the Unit Trust they set up. If not, the money should be there and it would just be unthinkable if it was not. They should just send it."

The writing has been on the wall for a while.....

The reason I say Jack Guarnieri should comment is that I actually alerted him directly of my concerns via email on 4/25/2013. At the very least, the following email might have prompted some action to clarify the situation with his exclusive Australian Distributor?

"On Apr 25, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Luke XXXX <[email protected]> wrote:

Hi Jack,

There is a rumor at this end is that the customer money that should have been held in a Unit Trust account may in fact be exhausted – perhaps used to sustain their business after the transition in ownership 12 months ago.

In my opinion, that business has all of the hallmarks of a business in decline – they appear to have significant cash-flow problems where I know they have passed on unbelievably favorable trade deals due to having no funds to purchase machines. I am quite close to the major importer of machines here who, on numerous occasions, has finalized deals for purchase of his stock only to find that his payment is dependent on Bumper on-selling his machines. They have shed significant staff numbers and reduced the hours of others (including David Stein) in the past few months. They do not seem to sell many machines and in the past year, the sales that have been made have not resulted in purchase of replacement stock.

I worry that the money held on behalf of customers coupled with delays for WoZ and your good nature, may have created the ‘perfect storm’ where the need for cash flow was replaced with ‘borrowing’ customer money??

If I could speculate, I am imagining that the new ‘deal’ may be along the lines of “Hi Jack, Can we use the deposit money already paid and get the first container shipped?, …. Once it arrives and we are happy, we will send you the balance for the rest of the order”. That’s why I say good luck getting the 400K.

I may be way off-base here and please accept my sincere apology if this is incorrect.

Like I say, just rumor…..

I am not a trouble-maker and I hope I am wrong. Just thought you might appreciate another perspective. Please respect my candor in expressing these concerns with your absolute discretion.

Sincerely,

Luke

Luke your argument is compelling and warrants an answer. Wonder why they chose bumper when amd has a proven record as a distributor, surely being a stern guy wouldn't preclude them from importing jjp games?

I really feel sad for the guys, a lot of whom I have met, who have given their money to Bumper and I think most have paid up the full amount. Bumper and JJP need to come clean on this for the sake over the 70+ guys who are tied up in Bumpers crap.

Operating amusement equipment is generally a cash business and I know for a fact that not all of it is declared to the tax department. Cash businesses can attract some dodgy people and that's what has come out here and I knew 100% Bumper were dodgy after they posted those sleazy videos a while back.

I can tell you one thing for sure, if they had my money I wouldn't be sitting here in front of the computer

If you have money in this, don't trust Bumper. Pool together, get a lawyer and find out where you money is.

The question of what happens to the original machines is now a question of business ethics on the part of JJP.

- 70+ deposits sent reserving 70+ machines.

Scenario 1- Ethical business practice would be to honor each deposit when the balance is sent on that particular machine (a new transaction - Bumper sends the balance payment). We know there are 4 machines on their way. It would be simple to find out if the additional payments have been made via the administrator.

Scenario 2- Unethical business practice (read 'the easy way' here) would be to send machines to the value of the deposit money already received thus 'paying' for the first machines with deposit money held on behalf of other customers. All of the time knowing that the business you are dealing with is close to insolvency and potentially leaving the majority of depositors without machines - but having 'paid' for other people's machines.

In scenario 2: That any unpaid machines will be sold in the US is a given - there is a waiting list.

Let's hope it is scenario 1.

Those sleazy videos made my god fearing blood boil.

Dude, the WoZ depositors may have actually paid for those videos to be made!

It's not a question of ethics. It is a question of law. In the states, if this were to happen, the adminstrator (trustee as we know them) would claw back the deposits and pay creditors in order of priority. A depositor for future sales is certainly at the bottom of the list after secured creditors and employees. Like I said earlier, I'm sure JJP is not looking forward to paying back those unfulfilled deposits. I'm not even sure an Australian administrator would have a legal process to sue JJP. Nonetheless, those 70+ depositors/buyers are certainly out their money and will never see their game. Perhaps the Australian administrator can sue JJP in the states, but that doesn't do anything for the "last in line" creditors that gave that money. If bumper had a insurance bond of some type, perhaps a depositor could make a claim. But I'm sure once the money is spent, unless there is some form of payment or trust agreement that was broken (fraud/wire fraud/theft by swindle), this is just a business deal gone bad and no one goes to jail.

The best thing the depositors can do right now is solicit their deposits back from JJP and go after the officers of the dissolved company and get judgements against them personally. Then they can just file for bankruptcy and get those judgements discharged.

Again, it has nothing to do with right and wrong. It has everything to do with the law (Australian, US and International Trade agreements). At this point, I think JJP can just keep their mouths shut and keep the deposits until someone sues them and for $100k, I don't think anyone will actually file suit internationally.

Amazing that noodle box has not commented for a while.........he must of realised all his efforts to fool us has now made everyone smarter as we start to work this shite out.

I'm sure you are correct that the appropriate laws are in place to protect people if they are observed. The question is whether the laws are going to be observed here - that's why I said it is an ethical decision.

Nonetheless as Candidate Marty Huggins once said; "Bring your brooms, 'cos it's a mess"

That's not what I said at all. The law won't protect the depositors at all. It protects the banks first, the employees second and anyone else after that. Nobody is going to pay anything other than what the law requires. The enforcement of any law that protects the depositors will be up to the depositors (through the court system) and no one else.

This is correct........the realisation is whoever had a woz paid for is more then likely going to loose all their money as other entities will be paid Owings first, like I said many posts ago.......A sad sad day for Aussie pinheads everywhere......I will have 2nd thoughts before I put a deposit on any new machine through any company.

I guess Bumper's customers could reasonably expect a refund of their deposit monies totalling 150K direct from JJP and without legal proceedings.

The balance is another story.

Can anyone explain to me why we haven't actually heard from any of the 70+ buyers? Man, I was nearly one of them but changed my mind. I can only asume they are satisfied with whatever they have been told by bumper? It really suprises me that this is not being allowed to be discussed on Aussie Arcade.

Funny I was thinking the same when I was mowing the lawns an hour ago. Perhaps there is a hush order or something, or they know something we all don't.

I am just glad that after 3 pages, this thread has laid out all the FACTS!
Ummmmmmmm...........yeah right.

What, discuss the activities of a sponsor??

AA-Ching-Ching-$$

The problem I can see, is that these individual deposits are being tracked by Bumper for Bumper's direct customers, not JJP. Bumper has placed an order with a manufacturer for X amount of games, and has sent funds covering Y amount of games - not a certain percentage spread across all of X.

I suppose the new Bumper could have paid the old company 1 for the remaining WOZ funds/orders, since there would be a future profit margin associated with those orders that would make this worthwhile.

I smell some HUGE rats........

What's also strange is all these pinsiders that have started posting for the 1st time only on this subject, they've all joined to post specifically on this thread........how convenient!

spot on Champ

You're kidding, right? I jump on the forum to find some stuff and see a thread related to business in Australia and find many people getting upset or speculating about stuff that is plain incorrect. So I post some messages to help clear the air and have to repeat myself a few times for some people. And I had to start somewhere so of course I have not built a wider history, although there are many other threads I have visited without posting, but you wouldn't know that.

And you think it important to count my messages and topics of interest??? What are ya, the internet police?

People here are still thinking that all of Bumper closed down. It did not. A defunct company Bumper **Action** Amusements Pty Ltd was shut down after selling it's assets. Those assets included WOZ, its moneys and other stuff, now rest with the new company, Bumper Amusements Pty Ltd. WOZ buyers have not lost a thing. Laws in regard to closing a defunct company that has no income or assets are to be been followed, and from what I can see are being followed.

US laws have no bearing in Australia, neither do US opinions about Australian laws. The Australian laws are what we have to deal with here.

Anyone who continues to say otherwise when they have not been a WOZ buyer or received their news updates is just making speculation, all of it wrong. The word "troll" is relevant here.

Anyway, I have said my piece FWIW. Feel free to ignore my opinions. Those who missed me (?) these last few hours, thanks for your interest but I have a life outside forums and pinball.

shill alert.

Dude, I am not the internet police but I am pretty sure once the ATO, ASIC and any other authority has a good look, the internet-type police aren't the ones that are likely to be paying a visit to Bumper.

You are behaving like someone with a vested interest rather than a casual onlooker. That's just my observation.

You said Jack should comment. I really hope he does not do that in an open forum. Not where JJP needs to air that. Customers deserve to know, not here.

When I say customers, the people that bought WOZ from bumper are Bumper customers. Bumper bought them from JJP. I think it is silly to expect JJP to send machines that are worth more than the balance received and could put them at risk. I am not against the guys that ordered there, just need to draw a line.

So it closed down but not, we got it, new one open same name but different.

We know, but we are trying to learn. You say we are speculating, what are you doing? Last night you said you were doing the same thing. I posted and asked you about it but you have avoided all the questions that have real content and now you are attacking. Please keep it civil.

We are listening to both sides and reading any public data we can find or are directed towards. You said you are using public data to form your opinions. Care to share where we can find that?

If JJP has no money from Bumper, they should say so.

If JJP has some money from Bumper, they should say so and pay it back to the dissolution manager.

If JJP has been paid in full for 70 machines, they should say so and contract out to another Australian distributor to start distributing machines.

In all cases, JJP should make their position known, but as I said earlier, they are just going to keep quiet and keep any money Bumper paid until a court mandates what they must do. This is the prudent course for JJP. The problem with keeping quiet is the perception that deposits will be lost on Hobbit and any other games.

NOTICE OF APPOINTMENT AS LIQUIDATOR
Company details

Company: BUMPER ACTION AMUSEMENTS PTY LTD
ACN: 156 229 408
Status: In Liquidation
Appointment Date: 26 July 2013

Resolution

Notice is given that at a general meeting of the members of the Company held on 26 July 2013, it was resolved that the Company be wound up and that Raymond Anthony Sutcliffe be appointed liquidator(s).

Date of Notice: 31 July 2013

Raymond Anthony Sutcliffe
Liquidator

Address City Side Serviced Offices, 200-224 Alexandra Parade
FITZROY VIC 3065
Contact person Ray Sutcliffe
Contact number 0394183975
Facsimile 0394183949
Email [email protected]

NOTICE OF MEETING OF CREDITORS
Company details

Company: BUMPER ACTION AMUSEMENTS PTY LTD
ACN: 156 229 408
Status: In Liquidation
Appointed: 26 July 2013

Meeting details

Notice is given that a meeting of the creditors of the Company, or a meeting for each of the Companies, (for multiple companies), will be held:
Location: The Boardroom
City Side Serviced Offices
200 Alexandra Parade
FITZROY VIC 3065
Meeting date: 12 August 2013
Meeting time: 11.00 AM

(If multiple companies, see special instructions for meeting times)

Agenda

At the meeting creditors may consider a resolution:

to appoint a committee of inspection and, if so, who are to be the committee members; and
to remove the liquidator(s) from office and appoint someone else as liquidator(s) of the Company.

Other agenda items are:

to receive a report as to affairs
to consider a statement to the creditors from one of the directors
to fix or determine the remuneration of the liquidator(s)
to fix or determine the future remuneration of the liquidator(s)
to consider the early destruction of books and records
any other business

Proof of debt and proxies

Creditors wishing to attend are advised proofs and proxies should be submitted to the liquidator by:
Time: 5.00 PM
Date: 09 August 2013

Teleconference facilities

Creditors wishing to attend by telephone are advised they can utilise the following conference facility:
Telephone number: 03 9418 3975
Password:

Creditors wishing to participate in the meeting by telephone must return to the convenor of the meeting not later than the second last working day before the day of the meeting, a written statement setting out the name of the person and of the proxy or attorney, (if any), an address to which notices to the person, proxy or attorney may be sent, a telephone number at which the person, proxy or attorney may be contacted and any facsimile number to which notices to the person, proxy or attorney may be sent. A person, or the proxy or attorney of a person who participates in the meeting by telephone, must pay any costs incurred in participating and is not entitled to be reimbursed for those costs from the assets of the Company.

Date of Notice: 31 July 2013

Raymond Anthony Sutcliffe
Liquidator

Address City Side Serviced Offices, 200-224 Alexandra Parade
FITZROY VIC 3065
Contact person Ray Sutcliffe
Contact number 0394183975
Facsimile 0394183949
Email [email protected]
Close
Name BUMPER ACTION AMUSEMENTS PTY LTD
ACN 156 229 408
Type Australian Proprietary Company
Class Limited By Shares
Sub Class Proprietary Company
Status Under External Administration And/Or Controller Appointed
Click here to find out more
COMPANY REPORTS FROM
$19.90
Report Includes

Names
Addresses
Company Office Holders
Share/Interest Holdings

OK. So, we are led to believe that after purchasing a business in April 2012 for a reported sum of $700K, the owners of the now defunct company in July 2013 sell it to Rob Farrell for $38K?

Fine. So the net value of its assets is 38K and, as you say, "included WoZ, its moneys and other stuff"?

I might not be a genius, but can anyone see what I am seeing?? If you see it and you think that's OK, I'm not sure you actually see it!!