(Topic ID: 58556)

Bumper Action Amusements Australia owes 79 WOZ Games or refund!


By Ballypinball

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Ballypinball
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There are 801 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 17.
#1 5 years ago

https://creditorwatch.com.au/express/asic/organisation/156229408

Only posting the facts

Post edited by robin : Renamed topic title, no ALL CAPS please.

#2 5 years ago

Oh this should get interesting really fast!

#3 5 years ago

Lol was expecting that ex employee again... Nice to see its just real posted fact then rumors.. Bad to see if its real. Tha ma for posting

#4 5 years ago

Anyone owed money should contact the Liquidator to be added to the unsecured Creditors List

Date of Notice: 31 July 2013

Raymond Anthony Sutcliffe
Liquidator

Address City Side Serviced Offices, 200-224 Alexandra Parade
FITZROY VIC 3065
Contact person Ray Sutcliffe
Contact number 0394183975
Facsimile 0394183949
Email raysutcliffe@csso.com.au

#5 5 years ago

Oh crap - this could get messy. I wonder what will happen to the 60+ people who are still waiting on a WOZ.

Edit - they're still answering the phones, I guess we'll wait and see.

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Only posting the facts

So the FACTS are that this relates to the current owners of the current company - yes?

Please dont let this turn into another sh*tfight thread - is THAT the case - you know it 100% as fact?

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from GravitaR:

Bullet point #5: to consider the early destruction of books and records

Cook the books, Great

#9 5 years ago

Company Registration 101.

Clearly not too many company owners in these forums, hence the wild speculation and innuendo.

Guys (and girls?), you can figure this out for yourselves.

Closing a company does always not mean closing a business, a company is just the legal entity within which the business operated. Businesses can and do get sold on, usually with the assets (and trading names) attached but not the liabilities.

Then the company that had the rights to the business (and the trading name) is no longer needed and the company gets wound up as it no longer has income or assets and is technically insolvent. That is the correct and legal obligation.

Appointing a receiver or administrator is also a legal obligation and hence the right way to shut down a company in Australia. You cannot just decide to stop having a company, it has to be cleaned up and shut down according to law.

It all becomes clear when you do a proper search, not just of company closures but also of company formations.

https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/RegistrySearch/faces/adf.task-flow?adf.tfId=panelSearch&adf.tfDoc=/taskflows/panelSearch.xml&searchText=bumper%20amusements&searchType=OrgAndBusNm

Here we see a new Bumper registered a short while ago. And now we see the old Bumper Action Amusements closed down.

Therefore it is likely that the newer company has bought out the assets and name of the old Bumper Action Amusements. The trading name would go with it as Bumper Action Amusements trading name is no longer listed under former landlord Del Reiss or his trust's name.

With the new address and new company, the new Bumper and new owner are pretty much saying that the former landlord and disaffected staff can go and play in traffic.

Forum stories and associated rumours support this. There are plenty of forum comments that mention former landlord Del Reiss doing strange and stupid things to his tenant. Also plenty of stuff about old staff who were fired not being happy with their lot.

Methinks the new company and new location are a case of "out with the old baggage and in with the new ideas".

Good luck to the new Bumper, you guys have certainly been through a lot.

#10 5 years ago

As for "destroying the books", that is no longer something that current or previous owners of Bumper have any say in. Only the formally appointed Administrator controls Bumper Action Amusements Pty Ltd as a compnay. Administrators always pay themselves well and first. Often there is nothing left for anyone else. Good luck to any former staff and landlords who are making claim to some cash...ouch!

-3
#11 5 years ago

So – based on the great post by Noodlebox I again put it to the OP who states he is ‘only stating facts’ to provide known information on how he knows this relates the CURRENT business and the new owners. Posts such as his only lead to negative speculation and instil fear into Australian WOZ buyers who ordered their games through Bumper.

So if Mr Credibility would like to come back in here and prove to the global pinball community that what he stated AS FACT is "actual" fact and wasn’t just trying to ‘politely’ cause more trouble then let’s see a further reply .............I bet we see nothing else from OP in regards to this.

#12 5 years ago

This thread may help answer a very interesting meteorological question. Do shitnadoes spin in the opposite direction down under?

#13 5 years ago

Holy crap!....So that ShowMeTheMoney guy was right?????

-1
#14 5 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

So that ShowMeTheMoney guy was right?????

No he was wrong both in fact and in speculation. He was confusing companies with trading entities. His allegations that Bumper as a business were going under are proven to be untrue. Bumper still operates as a business, within the company identity Bumper Amusements Pty Ltd.

Bumper Action Amusements Pty Ltd (the old entity) has ceased to operate and is now in adminsitration. ShowMeTheMoney and former landlord Del Reiss now have to deal with an Adminstrator for any claims against Bumper Action Amusements Pty Ltd. Adminstrators pay themselves first and well (they set their own fees to in effect be paid by themselves). If the company that has folded cannot pay them the former directors usually agree to cover the administrator's fees otherwise the administrator won't take the work.

It looks pretty clear that Bumper Amusements Pty Ltd will have purchased all of Bumper Action Amusements Pty Ltd's assets (WOZ contracts, trading name, moneys owed from customers and debtors, any machines, parts and equipment, employment contracts, chattels (lights/furniture) and cash at the bank held on behalf of WOZ buyers.

It is highly unusual for any company to accept the liabilities of a business when it is purchased from the old owner. Occasionally a new buyer may take over staff entitlements like long service leave and accrued holidays etc, but why would you?

For example anyone owed 3 months leave at the average wage has to be paid out say $18,000 when they take their holiday. Multiply that by say 10 staff and $180,000 is instantly sitting as a liability on the balance sheet of the new company, and in some cases that could make the new company insolvent. So most business takeovers involve the vendor terminating employment contracts and paying them out, with the new owner starting fresh contracts with retained staff.

It therefore looks like ShowMeTheMoney and Reiss the old landlord will need to go and whistle as the administrator will have nothing left to offer them.

After all the wild allegations and attacks against Bumper and its owners, plus the intrusions reportedly made by Del Reiss at the premises, I'd now say "nice one Bumper!"

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from sammiesguys:

This thread may help answer a very interesting meteorological question. Do shitnadoes spin in the opposite direction down under?

Dunno. They do have a habit of wandering off course and returning the sh*t back down on the creators of the sh*tnado.

#16 5 years ago

Interesting comments. Theory is correct......

What makes things a little unclear is that the new company apparently referenced by the link was registered 10 July 2013 (only a couple of weeks ago, and a long, long time after the sale of "Bumper").

How does that fit all this theorizing??? This newly registered company has taken over all the trading and left the employees/landlord etc with an empty shell to take action against? Hmmmmm, right

#17 5 years ago

For clarity, you are confusing the Bumper Action Amusements (BAA Mark 2) that recently shut with the Bumper Action Amusements (BAA Mark 1) as operated by Del Reiss, who I understand is the landlord of the premises just vacated. The company that went into administration just recently was BAA Mk2. The new company (with a shorter name) now runs the business.

BAA Mk1 is long gone (probably died when BAA Mk 2 took over) . BAA Mk1's owner (Reiss) has a very um, colourful history and had apparently continued to meddle in things with his tenant.

So closing BAA Mk2 and having a new lease is one way of getting rid of Reiss and his history. There's only so much distraction that any business owner can tolerate from their landlord.

Therefore Reiss's shenanigans under the name of Bumper ended when he sold out to BAA Mk2. His recent activities are in his own name or that of his trust (do some ASIC searches). BAA Mk2 had apparently had enough of Reiss as a landlord, hence the new entity now taking things over.

Company manoueverings like these are relatively commonplace when former owners, landlords and disgruntled staff don't accept what is offered to them. There are often a few people caught up in things who cannot see the reality of a situation.

#18 5 years ago

Overall, I see the new entity taking over WOZ obligations and Bumper's good assets as a positive step for the industry. New ownership, new location = a clearer path ahead for the business.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

For clarity, you are confusing the Bumper Action Amusements (BAA Mark 2) that recently shut with the Bumper Action Amusements (BAA Mark 1) .....

For clarity, I am absolutely not confused in the least.

Be interesting to see what Phoenix rises now.....

#20 5 years ago

OK but what of the $468,000 owing to the creditors of this now Liquidated Company.

$50,000 of unpaid Super
$171,000 of unpaid Company and staff Tax
and the rest to various others.

$468,000 ways to start with a clean Slate i Guess?

I guess we will all be paying for it as taxpayers then.

#21 5 years ago

It is the liquidators job to contact all creditors, that would include the ATO, staff etc.

Given the short history of BAA Mk2 I would think that the $50k and $171k substantially belong to the former business (BAA Mk1).

From the other side of what has been posted here and what has been put out by Bumper, the WOZ creditors and entitlements are transferred to the new company, as they should be.

Sounds like normal business to me.

#22 5 years ago

Hey Noodlebox,

First you say "It is highly unusual for any company to accept the liabilities of a business when it is purchased from the old owner. Occasionally a new buyer may take over staff entitlements like long service leave and accrued holidays etc, but why would you?"

Then, "Given the short history of BAA Mk2 I would think that the $50k and $171k substantially belong to the former business (BAA Mk1). "

Ballypinball said "$468,000 owing to the creditors of this now Liquidated Company.
$50,000 of unpaid Super
$171,000 of unpaid Company and staff Tax
and the rest to various others."

Ballypinball is saying Bumper Mk2 owes $468K according to the administrator - nothing to do with the previous owners.

My final point: They owe $468K..... so who does Jersey Jack expect will pay the other $450K still owed on Bumper's WoZ order (that has already been paid to Bumper by customers)?

They don't appear to be mentioned as secured creditors???? You say the new owners would have likely purchased the WoZ contracts as assets?? Pretty sure the profit from them is an asset but the money owing is a liabililty?

It's all very unusual to say the least.

-2
#23 5 years ago

Didnt we Australian taxpayers once fund a pinball machine experiment based on water, plumbing,toilets etc?

#24 5 years ago

Welcome to the world of business and Australian law.

It's not unusual, unless you haven't been exposed to it before.

Thousands of companies end up going through this process every year, some do it intentionally to close out a defunct operation, others have it forced on them by creditors. There is nothing to show in the notice that it was the latter for Bumper. There is ample evidence that it was the former (new company and location).

What we should remember is that regardless of what any directors do or did, they no longer have a say in the company, and in many cases there are still innocent staff involved. Speculation in forums does not incentivise former directors to reply, all it does is deflate and depress the staff left behind so maybe you should go easy on them.

Moving on, Ballypinball has various aliases online and they differ across forums, which one are you referring to? Ballypinball is perhaps not a financial stakeholder with the old Bumper Action Amusements, therefore s/he is unlikely to know anything for sure. But don't expect lack of actual knowledge to slow him/her down.

As I am not the administrator and neither is Ballypinball, I suggest you contact the administrator directly rather than rely on forums for your "facts".

As the administrator has only been on the job a few days they will still be contacting creditors and advertising for claimants to come forward, this is standard practice in case the business accounts are less than complete for any reason and the creditors list needs updating.

All they would usually provide for now is a schedule of claimants and what they claim, few of which would have been examined yet and therefore all cannot be declared to be valid claims.

Notice is given that a meeting of the creditors of the Company, or a meeting for each of the Companies, (for multiple companies), will be held:
Location: The Boardroom
City Side Serviced Offices
200 Alexandra Parade
FITZROY VIC 3065
Meeting date: 12 August 2013
Meeting time: 11.00 AM

The administrator should also be doing an audit of transactions and getting a feel for the business and its accounting systems. All of that takes time and finally the administrator will be able to give a report on the status of the company (not the trading business which is no longer housed within that company). In this case, the administrator needs at least ten more days to get an initial list together, before examining any claims.

I would expect that the old Bumper company and credit claims will be finalised by the end of the year, or shorter if creditor claims can be quickly determined.

Until that whole process is complete, the actual financial position of the old company is unknown.

The administrator is now the only person who can decide anything about the old company for example who would get paid, how much and when, if ever. Former directors or staff have no say in this anymore. Genuine queries and your speculation should therefore be aimed at the liquidator. Non-genuine queries (non-creditors) will not usually be informed what is going on and how much is owed.

Dealing with non-creditors costs the administrator money so don't expect a reply. And haranguing former directors for payouts or abusing existing staff no longer serves any purpose. Mate, that doesn't leave you much to do does it?

As for WOZ, I understand that buyer's moneys and WOZ places have been assumed by the new Bumper, indeed that is what has been advised in newsletters. Maybe you should get a hold of one.

#25 5 years ago

So, as it turns out, the initial OP post, was not a fact.

I just dont understand why anyone would start a thread like this

#26 5 years ago

Who cares as long as people get their woz machines

#27 5 years ago

And normally when a company is under administration they fold unless a buyer saves them. I think their was some truth in ShowTime story.........and karma is a bitch lol

#28 5 years ago

I am new to this forum and understand business very well.
If a business is in liquidation someone has been screwed or is in the process of being screwed.
If you have money owning say goodbye to it or spend lots of money on a lawyer and also say goodbye. I feel sorry for the people that are mixed up in this problem.

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from Paulbozo:

I am new to this forum and understand business very well.
If a business is in liquidation someone has been screwed or is in the process of being screwed.
If you have money owning say goodbye to it or spend lots of money on a lawyer and also say goodbye. I feel sorry for the people that are mixed up in this problem.

Nice try ShowMe!

#30 5 years ago

ShowMe? My name is Paul

#31 5 years ago

It's a joke. You had to be here about a week ago.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from Noodlebox:

As for WOZ, I understand that buyer's moneys and WOZ places have been assumed by the new Bumper, indeed that is what has been advised in newsletters. Maybe you should get a hold of one.

Hopefully that is the case and everybody gets their WOZ , but it definitely remains to be seen. I would be nervous if in that position if the deposit money was a big deal to me.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from brent149:

It's a joke. You had to be here about a week ago.

Don't worry Brent I get your joke just like your mum got me.......lol, he is right tho had to be here a week ago........

#34 5 years ago

This is an interesting thread. And I have to defend Ballypinball OP. He did post facts. Noodlebox did a great job of explaining the correct interpretation of what that means though.

Hope everyone in this turns out well in the end.

#35 5 years ago

Yeah its a sad day for pinheads in Australia........

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from badbilly27:

Noodlebox did a great job of explaining the correct interpretation of what that means though.

Doesn't make it right.

If a business engages in this type of behaviour, whether it is a common practice or not is immaterial. Other businesses may know the risks when trading, but there are 70 WoZ customers who trusted them with their money.

If that money is gone then Mato is right. Truly a very sad day.

#37 5 years ago
Quoted from lukex:

Doesn't make it right.
If a business engages in this type of behaviour, whether it is a common practice or not is immaterial. Other businesses may know the risks when trading, but there are 70 WoZ customers who trusted them with their money.
If that money is gone then Mato is right. Truly a very sad day.

The worse thing about this is a guy posted a week or two ago that this company had spent all the woz money customers had deposited..........its a pretty fubar situation and its a black day for aussie pinball people everywhere........who do we trust now with deposits for the latest and greatest pins coming into this country.

Bumper can't tell me that they dint know they were in financial trouble, because they were still taking orders on woz 2 months ago........lucky I did not commit but feel sorry for everyone that did.

#38 5 years ago

Someone who thinks this is good is sniffing too many noodles

The management, I hear are singing oops i did it again.

Followed by another one bites the dust.

With an encore of the parties over?

Lets take a $600k sale of a 48 year old Business and close it out a year later at -$468k

Total loss of over a Million Dollars sounds like a Fail in Business 101 to me

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

Someone who thinks this is good is sniffing too many noodles
The management, I hear are singing oops i did it again.
Followed by another one bites the dust.
With an encore of the parties over?
Lets take a $600k sale of a 48 year old Business and close it out a year later at -$468k
Total loss of over a Million Dollars sounds like a Fail in Business 101 to me

Agreed

-1
#40 5 years ago

David M in all your various aliases here, Bumper (the new one) have issued updates on the change of owner and the safety of WOZ presales. As you already know.

You would also know that Del had run the old business into the ground and faced going broke as the market changed after 48 years doing the same thing. What caught the manufacturers and killed them was also catching Del. You were there.

Speculation about debt in the recently closed BAA Pty Ltd is just that, speculation, as the administrator has not received all statements of claim or processed the accounts for the business. Let me know if you want that repeated a third time and I will type more slowly.

FWIW, the cash paid for an item on pre-sale becomes a cash asset on the balance sheet. As long as the item is not supplied, the future payout to the supplier is then a matching liability as it is a promised purchase. There is no doubling up of liability back to the purchasers unless they cancel their orders, in which case the equal amount is no longer a liability to the supplier. You only get to count the money once. That said, there would be a small difference between cash paid and what goes on to Jersey Jack as Bumper would make a profit of the sale. But you get the idea...maybe not.

So the new owner can buy the assets (cash on the balance sheet) and take on the obligation/commitment to pay money to Jersey Jack (liability on the balance sheet). The cash on the balance sheet and the matching liability cancel each other out so they are treatments on paper only. The new owner would then agree to pay the money from customers over to Jersey Jack when it falls due to take over the management of the programme, they would not need to pay for the cash being held on the balance sheet. Look, go talk to an accountant about that.

As the new Bumper Amusements Pty Ltd is a management buyout of the owners who took over from Del, why can't those owners who bought the business off Dell sell the business again next year, taking a loss if they want to? It does seem that they got fed up with Del's interference and just wanted to get shot of him and were prepared to take a hit to get an exit. Happens all the time when the vendor misrepresents the business being sold.

#41 5 years ago

I don't know who the hell you think i am

I am not David M or anyone who ever worked for Bumper, nor do i have any other Aliases

I can tell you I saw Dels Financials and it was far from being run into the ground with profits near 300k a year on the Financials. At least he ran it for 47 years longer than the last owners.

I think a little less giving Away $14k Jukeboxes and Company cars to the Directors Daughter and selling $2,000 pinballs to staff for $300 each probably had something to do with it.

Maybe he can pre sell some of his Motley Crew?

At least they seem to be consistant with their management skills.

I personally wish them the best of luck and hope they change nothing, I love the way they run their Business.

Pity they didn't sign that exclusive Agreement

#42 5 years ago

No way Ballypinball is ShowMeTheMoney... Unless he took a crash course in spelling and grammar.

#43 5 years ago
Quoted from PismoArcade:

No way Ballypinball is ShowMeTheMoney... Unless he took a crash course in spelling and grammar.

Haha maybe everyone is being taken for a fool........

#44 5 years ago

The question is a simple one.

Is the money that Bumper say they hold in a Unit Trust on behalf of WoZ customers still there?

Bumper made (and continue to make) assurances about the safety of customers WoZ money.

Words are not enough under the circumstances..... it's now time to ShowJackTheMoney.

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from lukex:

Doesn't make it right.

If a business engages in this type of behaviour, whether it is a common practice or not is immaterial. Other businesses may know the risks when trading, but there are 70 WoZ customers who trusted them with their money.

If that money is gone then Mato is right. Truly a very sad day.

It absolutely doesn't make anything right.

Hope my comment isn't being taken out of context here. I agree wholeheartedly that I hope everyone especially the buyers of WOZ are taken care of. It's simply sad all the way around for everyone involved.

I don't know Ballypinball from a hole in the wall but I felt his post was warranted to let people know. At least you WOZ buyers know next steps. Really sad.

#46 5 years ago

Anyone who has a woz ordered and paid for through bumper and currently is owed by bumper action at least get in touch with the liquidator,at least that way if things go south you might get back 10c in the dollar or better.certainly dont take some random poster on the nets word for it that it is just buisness 101.
I really hope you guys get your pins and dont lose your hard earned but usually liquidation means no one gets a full refund.

#47 5 years ago

For someone who is alleged to have no involvement, the noodle sure has taken it upon themselves to assure everyone that everything is above board and normal by posting in detail on here and AA.

I hope everything works out, but something does appear to be on the nose.

#48 5 years ago
Quoted from necroscope:

Anyone who has a woz ordered and paid for through bumper and currently is owed by bumper action at least get in touch with the liquidator,at least that way if things go south you might get back 10c in the dollar or better.certainly dont take some random poster on the nets word for it that it is just buisness 101.
I really hope you guys get your pins and dont lose your hard earned but usually liquidation means no one gets a full refund.

+1 Glad I got a refund.

#49 5 years ago

What a Pty....

#50 5 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

I don't know who the hell you think i am
I am not David M or anyone who ever worked for Bumper, nor do i have any other Aliases
I can tell you I saw Dels Financials and it was far from being run into the ground with profits near 300k a year on the Financials.

WG I know you're not David M but I suspect Paulbozo might be. Your original post said "just posting the facts", you did not mention that you are a competitor to Bumper.

Necroscope, the administrator will have no opinion about WOZ. The WOZ project, funds and obligations have apparently been taken over by the new Bumper, as per the Bumper news releases of this week and results of calls some forumites have made to Bumper since.

Sparkup I am just explaining what I know about businesses in administration, and in this thread I have given more credence to official news releases from the source rather than relying on gossip and rumour.

I have not said anything that is not already in the public domain, I have just run my own research and put results together in a way different to other posters in these forums. It's all just my opinion but I think it all stands up OK.

LukeX, I am sure if JJ ramped up his deliveries to Australia then he would get more payments. After so many broken delivery dates, Bumper are wise to insist that until more boxes ship, there is nothing more to pay. It would be reckless to pay more money to a supplier who repeatedly broke agreed schedules and quantity commitments.

Anyway, that's how I'd run my business if I was selling pinballs or anything else.

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