don't hate on good players thow. we didn't start from the top. no need to punish us for being good. practice is what it takes. i used to play lower divisions too and i got better with time. when you hang around good players, it makes you play better and new learn things.
heck, there are kids 5 years old that play well from practicing. Pinburgh is a Tournament and there were kids, girls, boys, women, men of all ages and skill levels. There is no reason to be afraid of the word "tournament".
tournaments doesn't mean "expert only". out of the more than 20,000 ranked players, under 100 are true expert players. non experts are the majority of the tourney scene.
there are usually several levels to choose from and with new software, it prevents players from qualifying in lower levels than they should. just as in pinburgh with division restrictions.
so me being an "A" player, if i was playing bad in a tourney, the software would still only let me qualify in A division, it would just put me at the bottom of A standings.

ironically if it wasnt for people like josh sharpe, zach sharpe, bowen, papa, doug, mark S and wife, kevin M., karl, brian S, me, trent, john Replogle, john k, and a host of others who promote and push competitive pinball to the next level, many of the collectors who frown on tournaments would not be enjoying the price spike in dmd and some alphanumeric and SS pins that they own.. The supply and demand factor sets in because more and more people are getting into competitive pinball and they learn about machines they play in tournaments and they want to buy said machines they just played in a bank. happens every time. star gazer single handedly shot up and quadrupled in price due to it being at IFPA in washington 2 years ago. no one even heard of that game before then. once we all got a taste of it in the lineup, it drew major interest and wants. supply and demand at its best. tournaments have brought a great deal to the pinball realm and virtually anyone into pinball one way or another benefits from it, you have no idea. Once again, everyone who plays in tournaments isn't a top notch A+ pro expert player. there are many many levels from beginners to experts and several layers in between. People often fear or dislike what they don't understand.

Also the nail was hit on the head in regards to some shows having newer games only in the tourney banks. think about it, there would be duplicates of new games on the main floor/tourney area if the norm was to bring new games for NON TOURNEY play. in other words, if the tournament wasn't there, there would not be any newer games on the main floor anyhow except for when phoebe brings her pimped beautiful games. she is one in a million thow and a true princess of pinball. most people don't buy brand new in box games and bring them to a show just to have on the floor for everyone to play over and over.. most operators who have new games on location don't remove their games from location to bring to a show for the floor (non tourney) play. and any anal collector who mods out their brand new HUO game isnt gonna bring it to a show on free play in the normal area.

pinball shows/events have people with different interests. tournament players, parts buyers, people looking to buy games, people who like to attend seminars, people who go just to socialize, vendors, etc. it all goes hand in hand in the end.

not to beat a dead horse with a stick..but that game (STARGAZER) is now over 3k. it was $1000- $1500 when we finished ifpa. there were at least 10 of us or so at ifpa that saw and played the game for the first time and commented we wanted one. then, we went to chicago expo in the fall and rush had his in the classics division, and once again more players played it for the first time and commented on wanting one. duncans at chicago expo many years ago I'm sure created interest although i don't know duncan and never saw it back then. First time i was aware of it was 2 years ago at ifpa in washington. ive also noticed all the "wanted" for stern meteor recently because if was in the pinburgh lineup playoffs. Every time players (me included) play a game in a tourney setting for the first time, if it seems like a great game and will likely appear in more tourneys, we search for them to practice on.
So, let me be right on this one . it happens, its done, it increases interest and demand and prices increase.
not everyone who buys games is an anal home collector who doesn't play and just stares at games and only worries about how a game looks...lol.
Next- i still have not seen anyone on here argue that clay should have a big tourney, all i have seen is players who play in tournaments defend themselves when certain stereotypes are mentioned. nothing to do with clays event. i agree clay doesn't need a tourney of any kind. people will go if they want to play nice games and many unseen games. clays games play great, his ems play like gold. its no secret. anyone in town or who does not mind traveling should go period. Unfortunately, i will be at the ifpa many events in colorado the only player from Michigan representing.
SO, i hope for the sake of our state, even though i'm a bad naughty tournament player, that you all will support me and wish me luck. I'm carrying michigan on my back for the state finals, world finals, world team championships and 2 or 3 other pre tournaments! only 3 people in the world period are playing in the state, world and team world ifpa championships and I am one of them..so be nice.

"I agree stargazer has been difficult and expensive for the last 5 years, largely thanks to Duncan's example at expo. Nothing to do with tourney play either."

yours truly is he

ten that i knew of in front of my eyes and im sure quite more that were there, and when its online with thousands of viewers who watch us play, im sure quite more saw it for the first time.

""Wow, ten whole people? That would definitely turn a $1k game into a $3k game overnight. A few years before that, I offered $5k for one and was turned down."

first of all over 100 players played it at chicago expo classics bank, not a "handfull"

""Your post actually helps to illustrate Clay's point about the walled-off world of tournament specialists. Hundreds or thousands of people played Duncan's SG at Expo two separate years, both well before you discovered it at IFPA. Its price skyrocketed accordingly. Recently a handful of tourney players were forced to play it, fell in love, and now they want one too. Welcome to the club. The paragraph I quoted above may as well say "it didn't happen in tourney circles, so it doesn't exist.""""

still not true in the instant skyrocket way back then.. even the ebay sales summary puts them at under 1k the past 5 years. as i said a few were had in the $1500 range the past 2 years. i even posted a wanted on here for one and a certain guy in texas bought it out from under me when someone replied in my post that they had one before i saw the reply he jumped on it.
never said anything revolved around 5% of our pie...lol.. i simply point out that there are anal collectors who cant even play pinball but like to jump on the bandwagon and buy cookie cutter machines that others have just to show off. Many here how good they play or how great a machine a game is from people who actually do play. so yeah, the interest increases all around.
there are over 20,000 players ranked at ifpa.com, so i believe your 5% is off.
Most people who bash tourney players can't play themselves, so they use good players as stepping stones.
and no, I'm not referring to jdubb cuz he actually plays good and he's a nice guy. he is speaking from he has seen and its fine. you cant really get the grasp it as a whole until you have been to many tourneys at many different venues thow. there are good and bad seeds in every realm.
just like there are people who play machines on the open floor area at shows who rag on games big time. There are also others who respect games. ask brian bannon what happened to one of his games on the open floor at chicago expo a few years back when they ripped his plunger off of one of his prized machines with no note left. or people leaving drinks on games and spilling drinks on games. or someone who smacked my MB launch button as hard as they could and broke the button in pieces on the open floor.

""Also, not everyone travels primarily to play tournaments. Very few people do, actually. The difference is it seems like you think the pinball world revolves around your 5% of the pie. ""

clay has to have his show the time of year and month that works best for him. virtually every weekend on the calendar has an event now and michigan with all of the large locations, leagues, tourneys and events popping up, its not easy chosen a date that works for everyone.. if he chose nov, dec, jan or feb or even march its a big weather risk....as proven this year. the fall already has enough shows. april has 2 shows in MI. so does (now) july with pin bowl (had to move from june because shows/events interfered with june dates) and september with pin wars which is a mini show now with 50 plus pins and parts for sale.
bottom line is people need pick and choose what event works to their schedule and likes. im quite sure anyone that goes to the VFW will have the time of their life. the machine list and playing condition will prove to be amazing.
someone play some classic sterns and think of me. sigh..........STARGAZER!