A lot of energy is being spent in this hobby to achieve some ridiculous results, and, I have not yet concieved of the which-a-whys it makes a difference. Now mind you, the ends justifies the means to a point, but I have to wonder, at what point have you gone too far?

Take my own collection as an example... I bought a 5 year old Pinbot working 100%, that basically indicates it shoots, it scores, it collects money, most if not all targets are working, possibly only some lamps are in need of replacement, but all in all it was in decent shape. Cabinet had some road rash, but most damage was a scrape or a ding or a few chunks of plywood missing at corners or edges. Now I paid $750 for it in ‘91, which was $50 to $75 more than market at the time, but for a machine that required no major repairs, nothing broke, it was money well spent. I shopped and replaced every lamp, rubber, missing parts, resoldered in warming resistors for all the flashers. And since then, I have waxed it, and replaced the battery holder off board, and installed the only mod on it, Red and blue LED displays (to limit any HV problems later)

I have a original NOS seconds playfield, a NOS plastics set, NOS translite, target carrier, spiral ramp, lift ramp, visor assembly... but I have never needed them or installed them. I bought them years ago when parts were available and have had them In storage for 27 years as an insurance policy against stupidity.

So here is my question, once you get the machine in as good a shape as this, why would you ever hand all the spares over to a restorer to make it “like NIB”? And pay an extra $4k to $8k for the work? I get people like collecting “nice” things, but on a budget, could I not take that $4k to $8k and buy 2-3 pins in the exact condition my Pinbot was in?

I enjoy repairing and refurbishing old pinball machines, but only to the point that they play, are working 100% like factory, don’t look like they’ve spent 13 summers on the Jersey boardwalk getting baked by the sun, and are generally pleasing to the eye, their cabinet war wounds just badges of honor dedicated to their loyal service on route for the limited years before I sucked them into their cozy HUO gig.

Now, my BOP was even younger, she was only 2 years on route but she was rode hard on the road... her cabinet has some pretty nasty wounds... but her colors are still pretty vibrant, and cabinet dings are the least of my concern.

So what is the attraction of spending so much money on a refurb? Are people trying to erase the wear and tear or are they trying to erase the embarrassment of admitting they bought a routed operator cast off that has seen it’s share of bar fights and the mud and the blood and the beer (literally!)?

As the value of a pinball machine is so subjective, I mean who would pay $8k plus for a like NIB Raven? I ask, Is money spent on restoration beyond getting a machine looking decent, clean, and being totally playable have any ROI? To me, once she looks like she is working and is working 100%, that extra money needs to go towards the next machine, but then again, I am not independently wealthy either. This hobby has room for all kinds, just like any other, but doing a frame up restore on a pinball machine is money I bank for my next title.

I will say, I am faced with my first playfield swap on my South Park... that poor bastard has a dime sized chunk of playfield missing around the spooky insert where it looks like someone dropped something REALLY heavy on the playfield. The cabinet is a faded as my old blue jeans, and I have already replaced the faded translite. Its working 100% percent, and right now, that chunk isn't causing any real issues. Cabinet dings dont bother me, but chunks of lost wood on the playfield? I draw the line.

Both of these responses are solid gold posts... I posed a question, I got good interesting takes and actually, both are quite on the money for thier reasoning...

@yelobird, the idea did cross my mind, kind of the reason I made the observation that every hobby has room for all kinds of enthusiasts at every level, and that falls in line to your argument its personal,preference, which I get, and as o-din points to too with the OCD crowd needing it perfect. I have played with a few owners who have frowned at my “physicality” when playing their machine, but give me a break, I’m 6’4” in socks and can move me some cabinetry, if you know what I mean.

But o-din made an observation that actually made more sense to me in that it aligns with maximizing earnings and having a locale appropriate level of gleem. I can see that, and as a matter of fact we have a local arcade that does exactly that. Big shout out to Starfighters Arcade in Mesa, Az

Had fun at CAX, I met a certain someone Saturday at the Pinside meet and greet.. had a nice personal long chat... he shared a few tips on design basics... said he has played the new JP2, but not a lot, he's not had a lot of free time with his machines being on the line in production but says its got flow... we were plying him with bourbon but he wouldn't spill anything... out of total randomness, my Lyft driver taking me to the airport Sunday asks me if I was at the convention center for "the playing of the pinball?" and I said yes, and he starts in "Oh yesterday I took very important pinball designer to airport, really nice guy... " and I whip out my phone and show him this picture... and he says... "That is him! You know this man?" And I said yeah, we hang out all the time, he's a personal friend of mine.

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So I am going to post this here...

On one patrol, we are the lead boat, meaning we are the next sub in line to pull out and go on patrol. Now this makes you a very dependable, and therefore a good bet to be headed out the Firth of Clyde on an exact know date. The US Red Cross, knowing this, always made sure to arrange last wishes and burials at sea with the Sublant Squadron command and coordinate with the grieving family’s to let them know exactly when their loved ones remains have been scattered to the winds of the sea, as per the sailors last will and testament, or surprisingly, sometimes by the surviving spouse or family. Well this patrol, they had scheduled for three fellow former submariners to be placed at rest in the Atlantic just before we submerged and went on patrol.

So we are coming up to our dive point, traveling on the surface at about 15 knots, and the weather has turned foul topside. A huge storm had sprung up just as we exited the firth, and the wind was blowing up some huge rollers in front of us, the boat was plowing through them, causing huge sudden burst of spray to sail up 33 feet and just inundate the topside deck crew, which normally was the OOD, the port lookout, the starboard lookout, and the phone talker, so 4 guys, two huddled under the temporary windscreen (Officer of the Deck, and the phone talker) with both lookouts on the port and starboard
rails.

Well the time is NOW to send our shipmates to their final resting place, and the Captain, who is sitting comfortably at the periscope stand in the OOD’s chair (where command is transferred once we submerge), orders the funeral party topside to commence the scattering of the remains, because they told the Red Cross, on this date, this time, we will be sending them to Davy Jones Locker, and by God and by damn if he was not going to live up to his commitment. Well the funeral party consisted of two deck div machinist mates, the XO, the yeoman as ship’s photographer. They all climb up the ladder to the top of the sail, and now 8 guys are packed in a 4 by 8 foot quarterdeck, all in foul weather gear, slickers, rain hats, and they have with them the remains, 3 thick polyester black bags full of cremains. Now mind you, the storm has done nothing but got worse, the waves are now no longer intermittent, but almost a continuous barrage of spray, rain, and wind. The XO has a wet piece of paper in his hands that is the tribute and the commanding to the deep prayer he is supposed to read as each shipmate is scattered. So he is reading, at a scream so as to be heard, using his flashlight because the sky is now almost gone total blue-black in the twilight of dusk and the continuing thickening of the clouds. He finishes the prayer, he motions to one of the Machinist mates to scatter the first bag. He grabbed the bag and holding it out so the wind will take it away , he rips the bag open with a whoosh, just as the wind, which was at his back, suddenly just stops, for just a second, as a gust from the opposite direction causes the air to just hang. The billowing cloud of “cremains” just does the TBL thing for that second and then.... BOOM! The front of the boat crashes down and through this huge wave and it just totally ash coats everything with a sudden spray of water.

Now remember that yeoman, the ship’s photographer? During all this he is taking this official, Navy remembrance and commemorative photos via a Pentax motodrive SLR with flash and he catches the whole thing in black and white from the puff of the initial cloud of ash, to the aftermath of everyone standing, streaks of white and black remains streaming down their raincoats... and the streaks of water rolling down the lens. So the XO, taking command of the situation tells Cravacchioli (sorry if I butcher his name’s spelling) to immediately dump the remaining 2 bags as quick as possible and clear the bridge, upon which he was able to dump the others with only minor blow back. Now, I am at the time, the control room phone talker, relaying to the control room all orders given by the OOD on the bridge up topside. So he sends word, the funeral party is exiting the bridge, the topside watch has been secure, the hatch is rigged for sea and the boat is ready to dive. At this point eight guys, covered in remains, sea water, and rain, burst down the ladder and immediately head for the showers. The XO commanded them to rinse off in the showers, and then they would say the prayer again and blow the sanitary tanks, thus sending the rest of ALL of our shipmates to their final resting place.

Ok, so the yeoman develops the film and shows it to the XO, and he says, we can not send these back to the family, so the XO makes another command decision that when we return from patrol, when we surface, they will take some pretty pictures and send them home, so right before we pull in off patrol, the yeoman takes the secret classified burn documents, burns them, save the ashes, puts them in black poly bags and then they take wonderful pictures and send them off to the family.

We thought it was fitting that the sailors got to ride the sub just one last time, although I bet in a million years they never thought it included a trip through the sanitary system.

To continue...
But it seems like we have ceased rational discussion on the topic and moved on to just pandering tribalism and rhetoric. It's like watching a bad beer commercial "Great taste" followed by "Less filling" except to loose that argument it just meant you liked drinking beer... whether it tasted like shit or didnt or if it filled you up or not. Here, with COVID, you loose the argument, and people die. Talk about throwing gloom on top of dismay on top of bewilderment on top of incredulity on top of unbelievability on top of anxiety on top of helplessness on top of logic on top of reason on top of common sense, and now you know EXACTLY how I feel. In this day and age, I thought we all were smarter than this, but turns out maybe this just showcases the failure of the education system. Either way it's depressing and anti-social, and we need to back away from the cliff of this tribalism and get back to being United Americans first, and political party members, second. A political party is like a social club, where you all are like minded and believe in a common course of action that will benifit everyone. It is not some kind of militia with a manifesto and armed thugs going around and making sure we all "vote the right way". It used to be the goal of a political party to do nothing but inform the electorate of their platform and help promote individuals that agreed with their philosophy and vision for the future. We then elected people to represent these ideals and philosophies within our chambers of Congress, and then the representatives created laws and a government that represented the majority will of the people.

What the political parties have devolved into is orginizations that try and manipulate and control the Electorate to maintain power within the proper "Tribe". Congress no longer works for the people, they work for their Tribe. And anyone who looks at what has gone on in the Senate can easily see this is the case. There are not a lot of rational conversations being held in government anymore, just more chest puffing and pandering to the lowest common denominator, using what ever seems to work, be it racism, immigration, taxes, health care, tort reform, fiscal responsibility, abortion, gay marriage, or simply wearing a mask or not.

What I would like to see is a lot less "Divide and conquer" amongst us and a lot more "Unite and Persevere" There was a time, not long ago, yet sometimes it feels like ages but I can remember having a lot of friends on both sides of the isle, and it didnt bother me that they had differing opinions. Now days, all I hear is "well I used to have a bunch of <fill in political party here> friends on Facebook, but ever since <fill in gripe with opposite party>, they just kept going on and on and on so I unfriended them all".

There is a reason I don't follow my own social media feeds... I think social media and the internet has been the sharpest double edged sword we have created on this planet since the advent of public electronic bulletin boards. It brings like minded people together, a good thing, but it also brings those together that you really don't want it to, like hate mongers and radicals from both ends of the spectrum.