(Topic ID: 115317)

BSD vs IM


By 27dnast

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 93 posts
  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by jamespin
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Which is King?”

  • Bram Stokers Dracula 109 votes
    57%
  • Iron Man 81 votes
    43%

(190 votes)

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There are 93 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 5 years ago

I own both but in my opinion BSD all the way. Nothing gets your "blood" pumping more than BSD. It was my first pin I bought several years ago and I still haven't grown tired of it. I've cussed it out a bunch of times, but IMO, one of the best pins ever made.

#52 5 years ago

So I haven't bit the bullet for an IM yet. Of all the Stern games it is the one I am drawn to of the Stern games I've been exposed to. And there are a lot I have not been exposed to.

I also have a BSD which is going nowhere.

I like short playing games - games that draw you in but are still tough to beat and don't keep you there for 10's of minutes - call me ADD.

I don't have the space nor do I want to spend the money at this time for an IM. What is going through my mind is to sell/trade my SC and fund/trade an IM. Any thoughts?

#53 5 years ago

BSD after all the years I've owned still keeps me coming back all the time as it kicks my butt most of the time with those lightning flippers being 1/4" shorter and changes the trajectory of the shots. It is just a cool and challenging pin!

Funny how my friends and visitor playing it for the 1st or 2nd time plays one game and walks away and doesn't like it. After I teach them the game and what to do and all that it can do, man they can't get enough!!!

#54 5 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

So I haven't bit the bullet for an IM yet. Of all the Stern games it is the one I am drawn to of the Stern games I've been exposed to. And there are a lot I have not been exposed to.
I also have a BSD which is going nowhere.
I like short playing games - games that draw you in but are still tough to beat and don't keep you there for 10's of minutes - call me ADD.
I don't have the space nor do I want to spend the money at this time for an IM. What is going through my mind is to sell/trade my SC and fund/trade an IM. Any thoughts?

IM is Sterns BSD. But if you can, get some games on IM before you buy.
SC would be a hard pin to find again.

#55 5 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

IM is Sterns BSD. But if you can, get some games on IM before you buy.
SC would be a hard pin to find again.

That is exactly how I look at it - IM is the BSD of Stern games. It is a staple at the pizza place we have monthly league at. I call it the great equalizer - it's anybody's game when you compete on it. I've had a few great games - I believe I'm second high score on it still at 85M. I was playing out of my mind that night and had a blast.

The reason I consider it is that SC is nice in a collection but doesn't get played much. I've owned it over 10 years. IM would get played much more.

#56 5 years ago
Quoted from MikeO:

That is exactly how I look at it - IM is the BSD of Stern games. It is a staple at the pizza place we have monthly league at. I call it the great equalizer - it's anybody's game when you compete on it. I've had a few great games - I believe I'm second high score on it still at 85M. I was playing out of my mind that night and had a blast.
The reason I consider it is that SC is nice in a collection but doesn't get played much. I've owned it over 10 years. IM would get played much more.

That's what's so great with IM & BSD, When you have THAT game and it all clicks
Both are great comp games, You never know how (quick) it will end

#57 5 years ago
Quoted from BLACK_ROSE:

Check out Kneissl play-n my BSD last year , i started film-n him 1/2 way thru his game Play !!
He Didn't beat my Grand Champ- Score , except for Loop Champ ,, " What a Show BSD Has "
ยป YouTube video

Those flippers look waaaaaay too big

#58 5 years ago

Both are punishing and difficult games. I personally prefer BSD. While I won't run out to play either game, I respect them both. Your pin-fu MUST be on point to play these games well.

#59 5 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Interesting that the ratings of pinside have IM rated just a tad higher...but the poll seems to indicate BSD. Hmmm

Thats because BSD has a few garbage reviews.

People say it's "not fun"... Perhaps it scared them and made their kids cry or something.

#60 5 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Interesting that the ratings of pinside have IM rated just a tad higher...but the poll seems to indicate BSD. Hmmm

Thats because its older and had bad ratings in the early years but most of the new ratings for bsd are all better than im

#61 5 years ago
Quoted from dtown:

From a financial point of view...there's no comparison. A decent BSD can be had for around the 2k mark. IM? 5k? More?
I know the OP said this wasn't a buying advice thread because, if it was, hand's down, BSD all the way just because of the "bang for the buck" factor. You could have 2 1/2 BSD's for the price of one IM. Then you'd have more than double the "thiiiiiiirrrty milllllion" factor.
As far as the theme goes. Well, I think the Dracula movie is ok. Campy, but certainly not terrible and the art direction is top notch.
The first Iron Man, IMO, is what got Marvel Studios to where it is now. If it wasn't for the huge success of that film we would not be seeing the onslaught of new Marvel films...for better or for worse. I really liked the first film but the sequels I can leave at the door step.
As far as the "it" factor goes, Bally/Williams games from the 90's know how to make you feel good when you accomplish something. From the light show to the sounds, they made "Jackpot" feel like one. Hell, even when Dracula yell's "EXTRA BALL" and the bells chiming when you can "shoot again" just gets me going even after I've heard it so many times.
What's IM got? Digitized animations from the movie on the DMD. Meh. Don't get me wrong. IM is a fast and brutal player but it just not have the "it" factor that BSD does.
Now, I just have to sit and wait till Allentown to go Dracula hunting. Daddy wants a BSD.

Lately they have been around 2500 -3000 for pretty nice ones with minimal fade and nice playfield and leds . Seen faded cabs and the less desired playfield sell for 2000 -2300 .I had mine sold for 2800 before I gave it a chance and after putting more time in I changed my mind and im so glad I did as its a great change up fromrest my collection

#62 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I voted for IM because the music and sound effects draw you into the game much more. Gameplay wise, I would say they are very close.

Yep, these are two of the very best "just one more game" DMD pins ever made, but the theme, sound effects, and call outs are what put IM above BSD for me.

#63 5 years ago
Quoted from wolfy:

I have had them both . IM lasted 3 months and was fun but I hit a wall with it after beating it a couple of times.

I'd really love to know what your definition of "beating" IM is? I doubt that you ever got to Do or Die Multiball?

#64 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Yep, these are two of the very best "just one more game" DMD pins ever made, but the theme, sound effects, and call outs are what put IM above BSD for me.

Really I think the sound effects and callouts are much better on bsd I like everything about im but the callouts the music and sound effects aren't bad tho

#65 5 years ago

I call beating it finishing Jericho and scoring 35k or less on Do or Die in the same game. But the real reason I sold it was it was not as fun to play anymore compared to my other games.

#66 5 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Really I think the sound effects and callouts are much better on bsd I like everything about im but the callouts the music and sound effects aren't bad tho

Not by a long shot.

It all comes down to personal taste obviously, but the call outs on BSD are terrible in my opinion.

#67 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Not by a long shot.
It all comes down to personal taste obviously, but the call outs on BSD are terrible in my opinion.

But bsd uses real quotes and im use some guy which isnt bad as some sterns but I like real movie stuff

#68 5 years ago

Depending on what you are looking for, both games offer something similar. I have both, and they are two that would be near the end of my 'for sale' list. Note that I'm also pretty able to step back and say what is good or bad about a machine outside of my like for that particular machine - so when I say things that aren't overly glow-y about the machines coming up, don't think I'm a hater, I just can see the flaws of a lot of machines I own and love.

BSD has a crappy theme for a pinball machine. It isn't family friendly and it's relatively ugly. A lot of the shots are too hidden for their own good, which turns off casual players. Why in the heck is there the chick on the dude's nipple on the playfield? On the flip side, Mist sure is a cool thing to watch no matter how many times you've seen it, and the way that it stacks things is really neat. Certain shots are near certain drains if you hit them.

IM has a great theme for a pinball machine. It is family friendly and I think has a really nice looking art package. It doesn't have anything as cool as Mist multiball on it (or, quite frankly, even close to Mist multiball) but the magnets do some awesome things with the balls. Any shot can be a safe shot, but if you are slightly off in your aim can also become a drain monster.

Both games are brutally difficult if you are playing them how they are intended. This does turn a lot of people off, which is a completely fair thing. If you are someone who likes to play a 20 minute game of pinball, neither game will satisfy you when you move in the posts to help you accomplish this. BSD will probably last slightly longer in your collection because of how the stacking works, but neither is deep enough in that sense. BSD earned like garbage on location, IM I have heard conflicting reports about how it has earned, both extremely well and not-so-well.

Cost wise, BSD is more than half of what IM is, unless you're getting a deal on BSD or screwed on IM. Since the VE zapped the value of IM as a game, I know people who have found them under $4k. I expect that trend to continue, as I know a lot of people that don't like IM at all because of how difficult it is. The same people tend to hate BSD for the same reason, but unlike IM the market isn't going to be flooded with a new release of BSD, so the price will remain the same or inflate slightly.

Having said that, to me, if I had to sell one, IM would be staying and BSD would be going. For me, I LOVE brutal pinball, and these both qualify, but the last thing that I said about IM is what gets me about it every time - EVERY shot that you take can be a drain if it doesn't work right. You need to have absolutely precision shooting to make it work right. When you drain, you drain because you screwed it up. I LOVE that about IM, and it's why it is usually the game that I call the best ever made.

If you like brutal games, you can't go wrong with either, but just like I did in real life, I'd buy an IM every day before getting a BSD.

#69 5 years ago

I can't believe people are actually picking Dracula over iron man, with this new stern crowd on here. That being said Dracula was a sleeper for years and years and hard core collectors always had one. I would take Dracula over ironman, but ironman is a good game too. I guess it would come down to the price you can get them for. Ironman sub 4 is a good deal and Dracula sub 2 is a good deal. Ironman the first time around was sub 4 new in box and you used to be able to get draculas all day for 1k. Those days are long gone. Todd Scott

-1
#70 5 years ago

If this poll had been put out before the remake, when IM was a hot commodity, IM would probably be winning because at that time IM was "the greatest thing ever". Stern kicks out a few hundred more units and subsequently put the fire out on this title. This hobby truly is all about perception, isn't it?

#71 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I'd really love to know what your definition of "beating" IM is? I doubt that you ever got to Do or Die Multiball?

I guarantee he didn't...much less SEVERAL times. LOL!

#72 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

wolfy said:

I have had them both . IM lasted 3 months and was fun but I hit a wall with it after beating it a couple of times.

I'd really love to know what your definition of "beating" IM is? I doubt that you ever got to Do or Die Multiball?

Wolfy's a good player , but I call that a B.S reason to . Iron Man Kick's my Azz daily , BSD just sit's over there lOok-n Good !! ,,,,,,, 2 Kick Azz Pin's ... I didn't Vote cause both r my Favorite of All .

#73 5 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

Wow...the IM supporters are pretty quiet here.

They are too busy playing IM.

#74 5 years ago

Just decided to get a game in on my BSD before heading in to work. I can't beleive we're even having this discussion.

One of these machines has toy robots on it, and the other has Gary Oldman, Tom Waits, and Anthony Hopkins!!! We're seriously discussing which one is cooler??!!

Ok, toy robots are pretty cool too.

#75 5 years ago
Quoted from MapleSyrup:

Just decided to get a game in on my BSD before heading in to work. I can't beleive we're even having this discussion.
One of these machines has toy robits on it, and the other has Gary Oldman, Tom Waits, and Anthony Hopkins!!! We're seriously discussing which one is cooler??!!
Ok, toy robots are pretty cool too.

I'm not sure that we are discussing which is cooler, I think we are discussing which has the "it" factor. At least that was the original question. And I still think the answer is both. Both of them are brutal, and yet they both can provide massive amounts of satisfaction... and frustration.

There is nothing like being one shot away from starting Thirrrrttttyyyyy Millllllllioooooonnnnnnn... and draining with a crap score because all you were looking at was that cherry on top of the stack.

There is nothing like having 5 Marks lit and draining going after the last to get Jericho. Or lighting the "Do or Die" hurryup... and feeling like someone put a wall up between you and the center shot that leads to a drain.

They both can build up the tension like that, and BOTH of them can put you into the third ball with a crap score that turns into a monster game. You are never totally out of it on either game.

The one thing I do like about IM is that it can get to a satisfying game in less than 3 minutes. I find the games shorter, but that may just be my setup of the game.

And the thing I like about BSD is that I've owned it about 4 years, and it can still thrill me. It still has "it" after that long. Other games have come and gone, but that one just stays.

So which one has it? Both. Get one of them and prepare to get your ass kicked.

#76 5 years ago

Totally. I was just being silly. I don't own IM myself, but have enjoyed playing it.

I think in terms of gameplay they are more similar than not. However, if we're discussing an intangible "it" factor. BSD wins by a landslide. It's just so much stranger than IM.

IM is bright and shiny and new though. And there is a lot to be said for that. Perhaps the goals are a little more self evident too.

I feel BSD is quite esoteric in its goals and rules. You kind of need to be a pinhead to appreciate it. While IM is difficult, I think it's appeal is more immediate.

#77 5 years ago
Quoted from MapleSyrup:

BSD wins by a landslide. It's just so much stranger than IM.

That's what I love about BSD. I didn't care for the game for the longest time. The sounds suck, the animations suck. I thought it was horrible. Then I restored one and put some real time on it. It finally hit me. Both the sounds and animations fit the game perfectly. It's a dark, odd, strange game. As it should be.

Kind of like WH2O and FT with the campy music people hate so much. They're perfect for the game and I love those too.

#78 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I thought it was horrible. Then I restored one and put some real time on it.

I did a total tear down of my BSD when I bought it...doing that really made me appreciate the complexity of the game and, in turn, helped to make the game all the more fun. It looks simple, build-wise, but it's not.

BSD gets my vote. Not because it's more fun (both are great players)...but because its design really embodies the spirit of pinball magic.

#79 5 years ago

"You are a man of good taste"

-3
#80 5 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

I wonder if folks voting are dividing down the ole' Stern vs Williams fans?

Clearly. BSD is a cute little game. Fun. Hard. Nice gimmick.

IM is top 10. Almost a perfectly integrated table for what it is. There is noting in pinball as ecstatic as stacking Fast Scoring and Bogey with Whiplash and War Machine. The sounds, the speed, the music, the challenge the MAYHEM is unparalleled. An adrenalin junky's DREAM. THAT, my friends, is "IT factor". Oh, and then there's Jericho, an amazing wizard mode and Do or Die...a crap your pants risk reward extravaganza. IMs rep will only grow over time. Still less than 1,500 of them in the world. A lot of people just don't get it.

BSD is what it is and always will be. And everyone knows what that is. BSD gets passed around like LSD at a Dead show (RIP).

Post edited by TheFamilyArcade: Because everytime I step away I think of something else badass about IM.

#81 5 years ago
Quoted from MapleSyrup:

Just decided to get a game in on my BSD before heading in to work. I can't beleive we're even having this discussion.
One of these machines has toy robits on it, and the other has Gary Oldman, Tom Waits, and Anthony Hopkins!!! We're seriously discussing which one is cooler??!!
Ok, toy robots are pretty cool too.

Interrupting Renfield's "master!" quote by slamming him against the steel bars NEVER gets old!

#82 5 years ago

Both are great games
I had a nice IM for about 1 yr, I traded it for a super duper nice TZ when IM's were going for crazy money! Whiplash multi ball might be one of the best multi ball intro's ever with a shaker! I loved that!

IM is gone now, will I get another, who knows, It was fun, fast, and brutal but also pretty shallow.

At a used vault price I may pick up another in the future if the price is right, but IMHO IM was never a 6 or 7 thousand dollar game, thats super crazy money for what it is.

I now have a BSD waiting in the garage to be shopped, I am anxious to get to it, it was a lot cheaper than IM too!

Bang for buck no contest BSD

Its all about what appeals to you.

#83 5 years ago

just played my im and bsd for the first time in about two months and they are both tons of fun. i don't think i'll sell either...

#84 5 years ago

I prefer BSD, but IM is still really really fun.

The ambiance in BSD is unparalleled. Once you know how to play it, the jackpots are the most rewarding in pinball, and each multiball is completely different. The music in coffin multiball is the best music in pinball. Mystery Castle's music was the only machine I've ever played that came even close to it.

"I just want to cut off her head and rip out her heart"

1 week later
#85 5 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

But bsd uses real quotes and im use some guy which isnt bad as some sterns but I like real movie stuff

What are you talking about? IM uses a ton of movie quotes from BOTH Iron Man and Iron Man 2.

#86 5 years ago
Quoted from Grinder901:

What are you talking about? IM uses a ton of movie quotes from BOTH Iron Man and Iron Man 2.

Yeah...not sure what he means? Plus, the "fake" Jarvis they do use is pretty damn good. Once in a while I hear a quote I swear I've never heard before.

#87 5 years ago

I feel the same way. Tons of call outs. "I know the math, leave it on the screen!" "Tony Stark was able to build it in a cave!"

I had all Marks lit and was about to start Do or Die and then drained.....man what a rush

#88 5 years ago
Quoted from AJNada:

Interrupting Renfield's "master!" quote by slamming him against the steel bars NEVER gets old!

I like waiting until Renfield almost completes that sentence... Like he thinks there is a chance he will actually get it all out this time.

But no, into the bars you go.

#89 5 years ago

If i could get either i'd take the IM ... And then sell to get a dracula and have cash for another pin

#90 5 years ago

Once again the poll speaks for itself. Do you believe in destiny?

#91 5 years ago
Quoted from horseypin:

Once again the poll speaks for itself. Do you believe in destiny?

If there is 7 people, 4 prefer BSD and 3 prefer IM. That's about what I'd expect. Both great games...more adrenaline pumping with IM for me though.

#92 5 years ago

Probably go BSD but not a big fan of either

#93 5 years ago

I really like both! I have a great example of a hou original IM that I have modded tastefully and have been looking for a BSD. Get both if you can. End of story!

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