(Topic ID: 190593)

BSD Switch Matrix Issue-I'm Stumped!

By Zetterberg

6 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Zetterberg
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

Hi All,

I have a switch matrix issue I can't seem to solve-any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Initially, I had an issue with switch 55-it was reading as always open causing the wire ramp popper to fire repeatedly. I confirmed that there was no issue with the optos, and that there were no visible wiring issues. Eventually I began receiving error messages for switches 15, 35, 55, and 65. I have done the following:

Inspected the CPU board for any corrosion-none visible.
Checked all connections on the CPU board and they look solid-(reflowed the solder on the lm339 at u19 to be sure).
Checked the ribbon cable from the main power driver to the cpu board.
Detached and reseated all connectors to the 10 opto board and the CPU board. Also inspected the pins and connectors for corrosion.
Replaced Fuse 115
Tested the switches as outlined here http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems All switches closed properly and there were no issues with multiple switches firing.
Removed and visually inspected the 10 opto board (which is a homepin replacement board) . . . no apparent issues.
Checked voltages on power driver board at test points 1-4. All were normal.

The only thing that seems a little odd is that led 3 on the power driver board (near f116) is very dim, however it lights fully when the wire ramp popper associated with switch 55 fires. Is this normal?

I'm new to this, so I'm sure there are few things I'm missing. Anything else I should be looking for or tests I should be running? Thanks!

Z

#2 6 years ago

Just replace the opto (Switch 55)
Sometimes a weak opto can cause strange behaviour but still work fine in switch test.

#3 6 years ago

Never mind error message. They are not errors, but a reminder to check for proper operation.

What works by manual testing? Are failures permanent or irregular?

#4 6 years ago

I replaced Switch 55 but it's still showing up in the test report.

Initially, the failure at 55 was irregular-it worked most of the time. The failure is now permanent. 15, 35 and 65 are also permanent.

I will go through the switches manually and report back.

Any thoughts on whether this could be an issue with the power coming from the driver board?

Thanks again for the help!

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from Zetterberg:

Any thoughts on whether this could be an issue with the power coming from the driver board?

TP3 on powerdriverboard must be 12Volt but it looks more like a broken wire at the moment.

Start with testing a working switch on Row 5, switch #25 'top lane left'.

If this one is working, there might be a broken wire in the chain of WHITE-GREEN.

#6 6 years ago

TP3 is at 12v, so no problem there. I'll double check the working switches in row 5, and then take another look at the white-green chain. Thanks!

#7 6 years ago

Best guess - as already mentioned - is a semi-broken row wire down the line. The roll over switch that works is indeed the first in line. I think.

A broken wire may be invisible. Troubleshooting with a jumper wire run from the good switch is your friend.

Try to (gently) pull the wire where it goes in and out of a crimp connector. It might break off.

#8 6 years ago

As mentioned, it's something on the row. A bad diode on a switch or broken wire. There should be a thread somewhere about testing diodes. Test the diode on each switch in the column. Go on aliexpress and order a ton of diodes. I think I got 100 of then for like $5. That way you have them for future.

Checked it out. 1000 for $7.
https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32813239398.html#autostay

100 for $1 shipped. How do they even make a profit at this point?

https://m.aliexpress.com/s/item/32422507038.html#autostay

#9 6 years ago

When faced with a wierd switch problem on wpc look to all switches in the row and Column. Look for backward diodes that has been a bitch to find in the past and results in very wierd game behavior. Last resort replace all diodes in the row and column. Or swap CPU boards with another game. It may lie in with a bad chip U20 (I think that's the one I'm not at home so I can't look it up). You also may want to swap the opto driver board that can cause opto issues as well. Good luck let us know how it works out.
Regards
Al

#10 6 years ago

Step one: Unplug all switch wires along the bottom of the MPU board, except the direct ones so you can still enter service mode.

Is the fault still there? = problem is on MPU board

Fault has gone = problem in the wiring, connectors, switches or diodes across them - equally, could be a fault on the 10 opto board as it connects to the switch matrix. Unplug it to eliminate it as a possible problem.

This is a simple issue but it does require a methodical approach. Don't just dive in and start replacing things willy-nilly. Work through the issues logically and step by step to isolate the problem.

#11 6 years ago

Thank you all-I really appreciate the help. I wasn't able to do any further troubleshooting today due to other obligations, but I'm hoping to get back to work tomorrow. I'll post an update if I'm able to get this figured out!

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from Homepin:

Step one: Unplug all switch wires along the bottom of the MPU board, except the direct ones so you can still enter service mode.
Is the fault still there? = problem is on MPU board
Fault has gone = problem in the wiring, connectors, switches or diodes across them - equally, could be a fault on the 10 opto board as it connects to the switch matrix. Unplug it to eliminate it as a possible problem.
This is a simple issue but it does require a methodical approach. Don't just dive in and start replacing things willy-nilly. Work through the issues logically and step by step to isolate the problem.

Could you please specify which ones are "the direct ones"? Seems a bit ambiguous to those less experienced (myself included here).

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Could you please specify which ones are "the direct ones"? Seems a bit ambiguous to those less experienced (myself included here).

Yes, sorry about that - I didn't have an MPU in front of me earlier.

The direct switches connector is the bottom left one on the board, J205.

Disconnect the others along the bottom (J206,7,8 & J212), up to 5 plugs depending on the game, and then all playfield switch matrix wires are disconnected from the MPU.

This is the bottom of a Homepin MPU (we clearly mark the connectors).

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#14 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

TP3 on powerdriverboard must be 12Volt but it looks more like a broken wire at the moment.
Start with testing a working switch on Row 5, switch #25 'top lane left'.
If this one is working, there might be a broken wire in the chain of WHITE-GREEN.

Basically what he said. This should be easy to fix. If your errors are on Row 5 (15, 35, 55, and 65) and you don't have an error on 25 or 85, I'm willing to bet you have a broken wire on that chain of switches. Take a close look at Switch 25 (Left Top Lane) and 85 (Left Ramp Diverter) and see if a soldered wire broke loose from the switch. If no luck, look at each switch in the chain 15, 55, 35, 65 and see if a soldered wire broke loose from the switch. You can also check with a continuity tester or ohmmeter to figure out where the connection is broken. Normally, you should see continuity on the white-green wire to all 6 switches on that row.

#15 6 years ago

UPDATE--there was indeed a loose wire. A little soldering and now switch 15, 35, and 65 are all functional . . . BUT . . . there's still an issue with Switch 55. It's still reading as open at all times and thus the popper continues to fire randomly.

I detached all cables from the MPU board except for J205 as instructed by homepin. The fault at 55 remains.

I also connected pin 5 of J207 and pin 5 of J209 using a test probe and switch 55 seemed to operate normally. However, (and I have no idea if this is normal or not) the switch only activated when I pulled the probe away from pin 5 on 207, rather than when I initially touched the probe to it. For all other switches in the matrix, initial contact with the pin activated the switch.

As mentioned before, I don't see any obvious corrosion on the MPU board and the solder points look fine. I also can't see any chips or diodes that look damaged or fried.

BSD is my only pin, so I can't swap the MPU board with another game to test it . . . any other suggestions? I should have all of the tools I would need to diagnose the problem, but I guess I'm not sure exactly where to start looking on the board.

Thanks again for all of the help to this point-three problems fixed, one to go!

#16 6 years ago

Maybe it's time to send your MPU out for checking or repair by an experienced person? There are several that are active on here and it should be a very cheap/easy fix for this type of issue.

The positive thing is you have corrected a wiring issue and narrowed down the problem to 'probably' the MPU.

#17 6 years ago

Could you post a picture of the MPU board just so we can see if there is anything you may not have noticed?

#18 6 years ago

Photos are attached. Though there is some discoloration below the batteries, it appears to be glue rather than corrosion. Thanks for looking it over!

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#19 6 years ago

Do you live in the USA? If so I was going to offer installing a NVRAM that included part and shipping it back for $22. Yes, it does looks like that wet area might be corrosion, but also could be flux residue if the battery holder was changed. Kind of depends on whether you can tell if ran down the battery tab or not.

#20 6 years ago
Quoted from Zetterberg:

Photos are attached. Though there is some discoloration below the batteries, it appears to be glue rather than corrosion. Thanks for looking it over!

Send to Chris Hibler here on Pinside. He knows his stuff and did a fantastic job on my Johnny Mnemonic mpu board.

The turnaround time and "knowing it's all better" is well worth his rates, which are VERY reasonable.

#21 6 years ago

Using the jumper test on the MPU board successfully for each switch rules out the MPU board.
Either the 10-opto board has failed or, perhaps more likely, the row or column wire that is daisy chained through an IDC connector on the 10-opto board isn't making contact with the conductor in the female housing.

Time to get those batteries off the CPU board. Love never dies, but Batteries always leak!

--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#22 6 years ago

Thanks, Chris! I'll take a look at the wiring to the 10-opto board and then get back to you.

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