(Topic ID: 305398)

BSD - stuck flipper. Magnetized?

By Treelk

2 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 32 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by rotordave
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

Hi,

Odd issue with BSD. One flipper was routinely getting stuck in the up position. It looks like occasionally when it flips up, it gets caught (only way to dislodge it was being hit by the ball).

It feels almost like it's being magnetized, and getting stuck up... Pictures attached.

Any help is appreciated!
DD

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#2 2 years ago

Might be getting stuck on the end of the switch

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#3 2 years ago

onemoresean that's exactly what's happening! It seems like the switch is too short. Looks like it might have snapped. Is there something I can add to the end to extend it somewhat?

#4 2 years ago

Or... Trim it?

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from Treelk:

Is there something I can add to the end to extend it somewhat?

It's worn. New EOS, new coil sleeve, new plunger assembly, new coil stop. Do both sides.

The plunger end and coil stop are worn enough allowing more travel which wore the end of the EOS.

You could solder a piece of brass or copper on the end to get by. But your game will play a lot better with a flipper rebuild.

LTG : )

#6 2 years ago

Thanks @ltg, I'm slightly terrified as this will be my first rebuild. I might be a lamewad and just solder a piece while I do more research

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Treelk:

I might be a lamewad and just solder a piece while I do more research

This will help.

LTG : )

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from Treelk:

Thanks LTG, I'm slightly terrified as this will be my first rebuild. I might be a lamewad and just solder a piece while I do more research

That'll last 2 minutes.

Do as LTG says, order a rebuild kit from PinballLife and rebuild them.

Its easy as pie. Lots of info on line (probably also on youtube) on how to do it ... or reach out to local guys who can come around and show you how it do your first one.

Pro tip - don't make the flipper bat too tight on the bushing. Most make this mistake the first time. You want to have 1-2mm of up/down movement on the bat.

rd

edit - LTG beat me to it with his video.

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

edit - LTG beat me to it with his video.

Butch's video.

Glad he's still with us, now with CGC.

LTG : )

#11 2 years ago

You guys are legends. Thanks for all the help. Order pending.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

...
The plunger end and coil stop are worn enough allowing more travel which wore the end of the EOS...
LTG : )

That’s interesting to know, Lloyd, never realized that’s why the EOS kept getting broken. I’ve had a few games I’ve picked up that had broken EOS switches and burned up coils. Wasn’t sure if it was some sort of grossly negligent hackery.
Now it all makes sense!

#13 2 years ago

LTG Hey - just wanted to double-check, but I think I should pick this one up:

Williams/Bally Flipper Rebuild Kit - 02/1992 to 04/1993

It's the build right before the one you linked. BSD is April '93.

#14 2 years ago

Easy to do with a parts kit... You'll be fine.

Iaz

#15 2 years ago

Also available in Canada — https://pinballmedics.ca/product/williamsbally-flipper-rebuild-kit-021992-to-041993/

Not sure which will be cheaper, it’s very expensive to ship to Canada. Avoid UPS as they’ll charge you brokerage fees on top.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

That'll last 2 minutes.

You'd think that but depending on how you do it.... might last a long time. Before a party years ago the tip of one of the EOS on pinbot broke off so I soldered a replacement piece on intending to replace it properly later. Completely forgot about it and 12 years later it was still working and there when I sold the game. There was a lot of overlap on the switch and the replacement piece though and it was soldered on both faces.

That was the same party I had to solder a tip 102 on top of cut off leads on a Medusa. Completely forgot about that one too!

Last minute stuff that breaks right before people arrive, the food and drinks are out and you run through the gameroom one last time.... that sucks.

#18 2 years ago

Well gentlemen, I bit the bullet and replaced the whole flipper. Way easier than I thought. Thank you for the confidence boost. Especially LTG and rotordave

Unfortunately, I've somehow screwed up my mist ball somehow. On startup, you can hear the magnet running, longer than usual when resetting itself. It loads the ball properly, but then on starting a game, it releases the mist ball (not with the magnet, just dumping it). When a ball is drained, the magnet fires up and and the ball is released again... No idea where to start with this one.

I can post a video if that helps. Sorry for noobing out over here.

#19 2 years ago

And link:

#20 2 years ago

Tests - Switch Edge - see what your optos are doing.

Correct number of balls in the game ?

LTG : )

#21 2 years ago

Well, maybe this is worth posting in a new thread. It's switch 82 (ball on magnet) . It doesn't seem to be open and closing properly. It's flashing back and forth, or if I hold it open, closes. If I let go, it stays closed. If I push it, it opens for a moment and then flashes back to closed.

#22 2 years ago

Here's switch edges on startup after letting everything load

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#23 2 years ago

It's... Getting worse.

In addition to the ball release, the coffin opto keeps triggering. I hit launch ball, and I score 500k. The ball hits the slings, 1 mm points.

Oh dear...

#24 2 years ago

Alright, making some progress on the magnet/mist issue. It's absolutely related to s82. Opto seems to be running fine. On Magnet On +Right, the mist ball runs to the right hub, however on going into the gate, a power error shows. The gate does lift, but the ball drops off the magnet and drains.

Any ideas?

#25 2 years ago

You might want to try the BSD club thread too: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bram-stokers-dracula-clubmembers-only

All I can say is that for me mist was flaky on two different BSDS I've had until I replaced the inductor and capacitors on the 24 opt board.

I do show in the club thread how to bench test the board, and the parts to replace the capacitor and inductor:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bram-stokers-dracula-clubmembers-only/page/166#post-6425097

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from Treelk:

Alright, making some progress on the magnet/mist issue. It's absolutely related to s82. Opto seems to be running fine. On Magnet On +Right, the mist ball runs to the right hub, however on going into the gate, a power error shows. The gate does lift, but the ball drops off the magnet and drains.
Any ideas?

Do you by chance have a magnet load/unload error showing in your test report? I’ve had a similar issue and it was one of the two micro switches for the magnet left and right end points were not triggering consistently

#27 2 years ago

Thanks both. I don't have a magnet unload error, but switch 73, the coffin opto is reporting an error.

I saw an old thread with Lloyd suggesting that could be a series of things... Will keep doing research and hit the other thread.

#28 2 years ago
Quoted from Treelk:

Thanks both. I don't have a magnet unload error, but switch 73, the coffin opto is reporting an error.
I saw an old thread with Lloyd suggesting that could be a series of things... Will keep doing research and hit the other thread.

I suggest testing all the switches in the same row and column as this coffin opto. Wire may have broke loose somewhere.

#29 2 years ago

Thanks everyone for your continued help. To @LTG's advice, I'll keep the thread contained here to preserve how the situation is evolving (excuse my etiquette - I'm new around here).

I ran a test on all switches. Most things appear to be firing properly. However this is a summary of what I've found, and the errors I've encountered:

- The magnet test returns a power error when the right gate opens. The opto doesn't seem to register when the ball is within the right gate.
- The opto coffin pop does not open/close if I attempt to trigger it. I believe this is the source of my woes. If I run a game, the solenoid for the coffin pop will fire over and over and over. Lots of free points, at least!

Am I right to suggest I should replace these optos? Should I check a fuse? Considering all I did was replace the flippers, I'm thinking it's more likely I just pinched something somewhere... But I'm not seeing anything visually troubling.

#30 2 years ago
Quoted from Treelk:

Thanks everyone for your continued help. To LTG's advice, I'll keep the thread contained here to preserve how the situation is evolving (excuse my etiquette - I'm new around here).
I ran a test on all switches. Most things appear to be firing properly. However this is a summary of what I've found, and the errors I've encountered:
- The magnet test returns a power error when the right gate opens. The opto doesn't seem to register when the ball is within the right gate.
- The opto coffin pop does not open/close if I attempt to trigger it. I believe this is the source of my woes. If I run a game, the solenoid for the coffin pop will fire over and over and over. Lots of free points, at least!
Am I right to suggest I should replace these optos? Should I check a fuse? Considering all I did was replace the flippers, I'm thinking it's more likely I just pinched something somewhere... But I'm not seeing anything visually troubling.

Some time back I had an issue with the long opto on my BSD. The following thread details my journey and while it is different from yours it may provide some insight for you with your current issues.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bsd-won-t-load-mist-ball-at-start-of-game#post-5927820

Gord

#31 2 years ago

Thanks for the link, Gord. I'll take a read through, but it looks like I have a few power failures.

There is no power to the solenoids which fire both slings, the one that pushes the ball into the Shooter lane, or the pop bumpers. That, in addition to the power error when running the magnet test. Also the plunger seems a bit weaker. All the switches are working as expected however (with the exception of the opto on coffin).

Is it possible all this is is a blown fuse stemming from poor power to the opto on the coffin?

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from Treelk:Is it possible all this is is a blown fuse stemming from poor power to the opto on the coffin?

Not related.

Optos are driven by the 12v. The signal goes to the (from memory on BSD..) under playfield opto board. Reseat all the connectors. Check the 12v on the Driver board test points with a meter.

Solenoids are driven by 20v through fuses F103-F105.

This group (9-16) is powered by F104.

20FA1D51-918C-48DB-A6D8-CFDF77009B57 (resized).jpeg20FA1D51-918C-48DB-A6D8-CFDF77009B57 (resized).jpeg

Check fuse F104 with the fuse removed and using continuity setting on a multimeter.

If you haven’t got a manual, download this:

https://www.ipdb.org/files/3072/Williams_1993_Bram_Stoker_s_Dracula_English_Manual.pdf

rd

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