(Topic ID: 6379)

burnt traces on display controller board ????

By tpn2011

12 years ago


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  • 42 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 12 years ago by robertmee
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#1 12 years ago

hey guys my first pin is turning into nothing short of a nightmare!!!!!got the gi issue figured out thanks to the help from the good ppl of pinside but still dont know what to do about the dmd screen it worked fine in attract mode and was on for about an hour and a half with no issues started the first game and got to the second ball and the screen went out.turned the game off next time it was powered on the was a puff of smoke from the dmd controller board.Had a repair man come check everything out and we discovered burnt traces on the display controller board but when tested he said everything is still gettin power and dident know why the dmd is not working it is a sega baywatch and im thinkin of shelling out the $425 for a new dmd but with not knowing if the issue is the dmd controller board or the actuall dmd and not knowing if a new dmd will fix the problem not 100% ready to go that direction. He said the traces can possibly by jumped but was not sure if that would fix the issue.I dont know just need some advice on where to go from here and what the next step toward solving and fixing the problem is any help and advice would be greatly app thanks in advance!!!!!

#2 12 years ago

You need to check the traces themselves. The repairman should have done this if you payed him...

If you have a good digital multimeter remove the board with the burnt traces. Use the continuity test function and test from component pins one on each side of each burnt trace. If you don't get a tone/buzz from each test a trace is bad. "Jumping" the trace means replacing/overlaying a piece of wire to regain the connection.

There are a bunch of Youtube video's on how to do it...

#3 12 years ago
Quoted from tpn2011:

turned the game off next time it was powered on the was a puff of smoke from the dmd controller board.Had a repair man come check everything out and we discovered burnt traces on the display controller board but when tested he said everything is still gettin power and dident know why the dmd is not working

If there was a PUFF OF SMOKE from the DMD controller board, and the DMD stopped working when the smoke came out, I daresay that's the problem. It's quite possible that things are still getting power, but why are there burned traces? Traces don't just decide to burn for no reason! A component connected to said burned traces is failing catastropically, causing the trace to burn. Figure out what's downstream of those burned traces, (depending on what traces are burned, it may or may not be apparent where the problem lies), and start investigating it. If there was that much current going through it, and the problem is on the DMD rather than the controller, there would likely be evidence on the DMD as well. Also, if there was that much current going through a component on the DMD controller, it's safe to say that the component in question is probably zotted as well.

Got any photos?

#4 12 years ago

i dont have a digital multimeter yet any recomendations ???And as far as jumping the traces is this a good idea i have heard many different oppions on this.But at the moment it seems to be the olny option i would prefer to just replace the board but can not seem to find them aviable anywhere

#5 12 years ago

Check all the fuses in the game to make sure they are the correct amperage. I would lay bets that at least one is overfused. I have yet to buy a used pin with all the correctly rated fuses. Please let us know which ones are wrong, if any, and if you are blowing the correct value fuse. This will help zero in on the problem.

I would solder in a jumper wire if the traces are burnt.

Also look for any other components which are very brown and the circuit board below is very brown.

#6 12 years ago

no photos yet but will try and get some asap and the dmd went out when we started up the first game turned the machine off and then had the dmd unmounted the next time we turned it on and thats when we saw the smoke but the dmd was allready out at this point.

#7 12 years ago

So the smoke came with the DMD out.

When you moved the pin did you remove and reinstall any connectors?

#8 12 years ago
Quoted from tpn2011:

no photos yet but will try and get some asap and the dmd went out when we started up the first game turned the machine off and then had the dmd unmounted the next time we turned it on and thats when we saw the smoke but the dmd was allready out at this point.

I suspect, then, that smoke was pouring off that burnt trace during that game too.

I wouldn't go soldering jumper wires in, until you've figured out the root cause. There's no point in replacing a burned trace with a wire before fixing the problem that caused it to burn, unless you want to compare the aroma of burning circuitboard epoxy with that of burning wire insulation*.

You need to get a digital multimeter. It's one of the essential tools to keeping a pinball machine running.

*The burning wire insulation smells worse in the short term, but the burnt epoxy smell hangs around a lot longer. It's like cigarette smoke in that regard.

#9 12 years ago
Quoted from tpn2011:

i dont have a digital multimeter yet any recomendations

I have a Wavetek. There are a bunch of good ones out there, Centech, Fluke just to name 2 more. Depends on your budget though, and the features your looking for.

#10 12 years ago

just took some pics and yes we smelled the burning while playing the game thats when we immideatly turned it off and opened it up next time we powered it up when we saw the smoke with the dmd down and the backglass open and this was my thinking also i dont want to jump or do anything until i get to the root of the problem at this point im very worried if the problem with the controller board can even be fixed ?? pics should be uploaded in the next 5 to ten mins

#11 12 years ago

sorry they are not the best pics but best i could get in a hurry

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#12 12 years ago

if there is any other areas i should get pics of let me know

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#13 12 years ago

What game is this (did I miss it)? Do you have the wiring schematics? We can get them on line if we have name year and model/serial numbers. I want to know what is plugged into that empty plug socket the burnt trace is connected to. Are any wires burnt or wire covering melted?

Cover those IC chips with something (masking tape or a like) the camera flash can erase them. In your top pic you can see that round dot on the chip? That's a window and how the flash gets into it to erase the chip/EPROM.

#14 12 years ago

srry for the small size on the 2nd set of pics not sure what happened but im gonna try and poat them again

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#15 12 years ago

Those don't look like burnt traces (from what I can see).

I'll bet it's capacitor electrolyte leakage.

#16 12 years ago
Quoted from jrrdw:

What game is this (did I miss it)? Do you have the wiring schematics? We can get them on line if we have name year and model/serial numbers. I want to know what is plugged into that empty plug socket the burnt trace is connected to. Are any wires burnt or wire covering melted?

Cover those IC chips with something (masking tape or a like) the camera flash can erase them. In your top pic you can see that round dot on the chip? That's a window and how the flash gets into it to erase the chip/EPROM.

You posted before I finished compossing mine...

#17 12 years ago

it is a sega baywatch 1995 which really has me conserned bc i know its allmost impossible to get replacement parts and should i retake that pic with out the flash on the camera ??

#18 12 years ago

You missed my post?

Check those caps. The puff of smoke you saw can easily come from a cap.

#19 12 years ago
Quoted from Firebaall:

I'll bet it's capacitor electrolyte leakage.

Only if it came out the bottom witch is unlikely. The 'X' scored in the top is a relieve point for when they burn up. Those Caps look fine from the top. No swelling, the plastic covering isn't melting back, no brown fuzz around the bottom...

#20 12 years ago
Quoted from jrrdw:

Only if it came out the bottom witch is unlikely. The 'X' scored in the top is a relieve point for when they burn up. Those Caps look fine from the top. No swelling, the plastic covering isn't melting back, no brown fuzz around the bottom...

I've seen more caps fail out of the bottom, than burst the x.

...and that's been alot.

Also, what's that dark mark by C30? Need better pics with a macro focus!

#21 12 years ago

im just at a complet loss for what the prob could but like i said this is my first pin and all new to me and the areas on the board have deff been burned by something just not sure from what yet or how to really go about fixing it

how and what do i need to look for when checking the caps ??

#23 12 years ago

Got the schematic for that board? I'd be happy to take a look at the schematic w/regards to this problem, if you could point me to the schematic.

That's gonna be important for figuring this one out. I also suspect something funky is going on with those caps, though..

#24 12 years ago

the dark black area near c30 is also a burn there are 2 burned areas on this board

#25 12 years ago

unfourtnally 1 out of 2 pages are missing out of my manual but you can download the manual for free from ipdb.org then search for baywatch and scroll down a little bit and you will see the link to download the pdf file of the manual

#26 12 years ago

http://www.ipdb.org/files/2848/Baywatch_Manual.pdf Theres the manual. Whats the number beside the plug? I can't see it in the picture.

#27 12 years ago
Quoted from Firebaall:

Also, what's that dark mark by C30?

Cold solder joint right on the cap pin, and the more I look at the pics the more I think your right Firebaall.

tpn2011, dip a Q-Tip in rubbing alcohol and wipe the traces and see if they clean up.

#28 12 years ago

Oh, nice of Sega to give out a manual that contained board schematics (unlike midway, which had them in a separate manual)

Not so nice of them not to provide a board layout for the board we're looking at! (they've got one for the top board, but not the one that we've got problems with), which appears to be the Babcock DMD board. Can't make out most of the numbers on the schematic, either...

Any burning on the underside of the board? I'd wager there's a burnt trace from the burned area around the caps to the burned trace going to (or passing near) Q4.

#29 12 years ago

which plug are you asking about the red one and srry im sure thats a very stupid question but like i said before this is all brand new to me . im about to head to the store and get some q tips and alchol and see how that goes im keeping my fingers crossed bc the board its self looks to be melted pretty good from all that heat

#30 12 years ago

ok got back from the store tried cleaning the traces it helped a little im a little scared to get to much moister on the board or scrub to hard i dont want to do any futher damage should this be a conscern ???

#31 12 years ago

I think you might be in a little over your head.

Here's some resources, you should become very familiar with:

http://www.mediafire.com/?059sflkijaroxic

Right now, the best thing for you to do is hire a knowledgable electronics technician if you expect the machine to be working correctly any time soon. Otherwise, read through the documents I linked to, and then post. You'll be better armed to understand what's needed.

At your current skill level, any advice is going to be too dangerous for you to try and use. I'm not being mean about it, just frank. Read the documents, and become the pinball guru!

#32 12 years ago

thank you so much i will deff check the info you have provided out right away and i agree w you i am in a little over my head!!!!a friend of mine is more experinced w electronics not in the pinball feild but is out of town till wed anyway thank you very much for the help and info like i said i have had a pin repiar guy allready look at it and came up with nothing with that being said does anyone know or have a good recomendation for a repiar person in the atl ga area ?????

#33 12 years ago
Quoted from tpn2011:

does anyone know or have a good recomendation for a repiar person in the atl ga area ?????

Did a quick Google search and found this guy. Looks like he knows what he is doing, I dunno. Maybe if you call him and take the damaged board/s to him he will work with you. Worth a shot.

http://www.davesarcade.com/

#34 12 years ago
Quoted from SealClubber:

Pinball circuit board repair kits and parts.
http://bigdaddy-enterprises.com/index.htm

New circuit boards, repairs, repair kits and parts.
http://www.pin-logic.com/index.shtml

From the online pinball shops thread.

#35 12 years ago
Quoted from tpn2011:

thank you so much

No problem!

Inside that winrar file, you'll find the much sought after guides by "clay". They are in the folder called "pinrepair.com Repair Manuals Apr 2011".

#36 12 years ago

im having trouble opening the .rar files my laptop says i do not have the required software to open this file what program do i need to have ??

#38 12 years ago

thanks for the help everyone hope to get this prob solved !!!! keep everyone posted

#39 12 years ago

Yoink! Thanks for posting those pinrepair guides, I've been lookin for those.

3 months later
#41 12 years ago

I've got a video of Rebuilding and fixing a WMS DMD controller board if that's of any insight. A lot of these systems have similar approaches when it comes to fixing power supply issues and figuring out what components might need replacing.

#42 12 years ago

That cap is not on the controller board....It's on the display glass. That's a big difference in repair.

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