Not too common. You'll maybe see one or two games that have a show-stopping issue that prevents them from being played--either mechanical or electronic.

However, there are usually a small handful that are dirty and in need of a shop job. I'm not sure if that's because the owner brought it like that, or if they picked it up at the show and got it running, then just stuck it out on the floor.

I always text the owner if I notice a problem with a game. Unfortunately, not everyone is so proactive. I had one game on the floor at Allentown this year where a ball got stuck and it was sitting there for at least a half hour before I saw it the next time I walked by it. Instead of contacting me, someone simply turned the game off

Credit dot could mean anything. No way should that be a determining factor.

Shit happens. If you bring a game and it was in good working shape when you brought it, not your fault if it goes down. You should definitely do your best to get it back up and running, but you can't prepare for everything.

That being said, I have been to shows where I walk up to play a game and think to myself, "this pos is definitely sitting here for free entry only"

It happens, but I don't think it's common practice. I do know games do go down from time to time and those that bring them don't tend to baby-sit their game all weekend. But, yes, there are some people that bring non-working games just to get in.

I know a few people that have games they just bring to shows and are not set-up again until it goes to another show. Those tend to work for a few hours and then go down the rest of the weekend.

A lot of times the credit dot on W/B is because a switch hasn't been triggered in a long time. So if you have a bunch of not great players playing games all day this can happen a lot.
Bigfoot ramp switch on WH20 comes to mind.

The same reason you see broken machines at shows is the same reason why pins aren't commonly put out on route.

Things break - you're flinging a steel ball bearing at plastic pieces. Shows are hot and machines are getting a lot more play than you could have simulated while testing. I've had machines go down at a show. I always feel awful about it, but I know most everyone else at the show understands that things happen.

I'm sure most games were working when they were signed up before they were packed. There are bound to be some games that didn't survive the trip too well and have one thing or another broken by the time they are setup. Then as soon as the show starts and the games start getting played constantly for the entire weekend, many more are bound to develop an issue and go down. Just getting the games packed, transported and then setup is a big chore so no-one is looking for a credit dot I promise.

Now, it's up to the owners, but in general most owners will try fixing minor things to keep the games going. However, if a coil burns up, a board pops a cap/transistor, etc then the game will probably just get turned off. Most people don't have a parts stash at the show. At TPF this year, my games had about 600-700 plays on them over the weekend and that's rough on older games, but in general they survived ok. Meteor's bottom flippers were rebuilt before the show and they survived great. The top one didn't get rebuilt and became not so great, but it's been rebuilt now . The brand new displays I put in started having issues and have found their way into a different pin now.

Don't forget there is a huge expense to bring games (truck rentals, labor, part breakage, etc). The owners aren't there to just babysit the games all weekend. They are there to enjoy the show too. Also many games are for sale at shows and at some point change hands over the weekend. Once someone pays me cash for a game and I hand them a key then I won't touch the game again. Likewise once I pay for a game and get a key, I don't really want the previous owner messing with it anymore.

Shows are really brutal on a machine. I've taken shopped out, clean machines to shows that look like they went through war afterwards.

All that play helps to find anything that wasn't completely broken before by finally breaking it.

Even if there are people that bring a broken game to get in free, whatever, it's such a small number it doesn't factor imo.

The lock in the Borg ship on STTNG is another. Hitting that side ramp is hard, let alone hitting it solid enough to make it up into the ship at a time when it happens to be open.

Totally agree. Just funny when I see one that literally is unplayable in the first hour of the show and also looks the part.

I think some guys bring them to get in free AND get their pin worked on and running for free lol

I think there is a much bigger percentage of people that don't bother to bring a game but would rather sneak into a show any way they can to avoid paying the $15-$20 entrance fee. I've seen this so many times over the years and the worst part is they brag about it to others who will be sure to follow along at the next show. The other really bad thing about people doing this is that it puts up the cost of booth rental, and everyone else's admission cost for all the honest people. It doesn't matter if your planning on being in the show for five minutes or five hours....pay up you cheap skates !!

John

I'm always amazed at how many games at shows are only marginally playable (and look like they haven't seen so much as a good waxing, much less new set of rubbers, in god knows how long). That said, it is true that being wailed on for 10 hours straight at a show will put a hurt on any parts that may have been marginal but not crying out for replacement when the game was being played at home. Several years ago, I remember a Tommy at Allentown which was playing like-new on Friday afternoon, but the flippers were crapping out by noon on Saturday.

I baby my games and try to keep them playing as perfectly as I can. Personally, I choose not to bring them to shows, as the admission fee is worth more to me than the time and money I'd need to invest in bringing the game back to peak performance afterward.

Eventually I figured out that, for me, playing a whole lot of pinball isn't my primary reason for attending shows. I like to see what new games are there, see what cool deals I might be able to get, maybe run into other pinheads, and if I'm lucky there'll be a few games I like that are playing decently. Also a good chance to get a good look at a game you are considering and/or line up a sale or trade.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd be down with the idea that you bring a problem game to a show and arrange to work on it there, that seems like a great way to take advantage of all the expertise available in one spot!

So true. When my World Cup Soccer at home survived two kids' birthday parties without intervention, I knew it was ready to be put on location.

It's not very common. If you are going to drag a game to a show it might as well work.

I think people are too hard on those who do bring them. Games break, it happens. Just because a game works 30 minutes twice a week in your home doesn't mean it's going to hold up for 3 days of steady play at a show.

Last show I brought games to, I must have spent like $300 fixing the games as crap broke. It was nice being able to run over and buy parts from vendors though!

I have taken my Whirlwind the last 5 years to expo and every year something breaks. One year a high power wire broke off of the left flipper. Nobody was playing it and it was slow so I played a game and found it. Fixed it right up. I know I played it on Friday night and I found it Saturday afternoon like that. My phone number was on it but nobody ever called. Last year a wire broke that took out the spinner and the red target making locking very hard. Don't know when it broke but I didnt find it till I played a game before taking it home. Again nobody called to say it was busted. I had a soldering iron and both fixes were 5 minuets but I cant fix things when I dont know they are broken.

Generally; I ensure my machines are ready for TPF as I see no value in bringing a broken machine to the show. Too much effort to breakdown and re-setup.

There are exceptions. One year I had an issue with my Star trek 25th... but I had Borygard repair the PIA chip to get the display functional.

Saw a Mr. & Mrs. Pac-Man and a Black Hole at a show (same owner) that didn't work the entire weekend so yes it happens, but I agree it's a small percentage of people that do this.

I also agree there's a greater percentage of working games that have been sitting in storage for a long time and games that have just been brought back from the dead which are completely unreliable and break down early.

But what bothers me even more are games that aren't setup or adjusted properly:
Playfield angle so low the ball grows spider webs as it rolls
Game leans to one side
Flipper bats at wrong angles
Weak flippers
Pops and slings that work 1 in 10 hits
Spinners that spin 4 revolutions
Balls that get stuck due to misadjusted or non-working switches requiring ball search to free them

These games are NOT fun to play. Do people really have these set up like this in their homes and think they're fun? I'll play one ball and walk away. If they have a contact number I'll text them and tell them the problem. Sometimes it gets fixed, but most times it does not. People need to test their games after they set them up and periodically throughout the show.

dothedoo... are you in a glass house while throwing those stones?
Hopefully; you aren't complaining about people who do bring machines... if you aren't bring machines yourself.

2016 was my 1st TPF in Dallas. Sometimes I noticed pins that were holding position at Ball 2. I loaded ball 2 and figured out why the pin was stuck in the middle of the game because I walked away, as well, and left Ball 3 for the next attendee. I noticed this more with the EMs and solid states. The DMDs were usually kicking butt.

The conspiracy theorist in me figured it was a good way to get in free but have no wear put to your pin.

2017 TPF: I noticed the same thing this year but not to the degree as last year. There was one exhibitor who had several EMs lined up and all were set to such shallow slope they were were only worth one ball each.

I was playing one pin and met a guy who owned a different pin with shallow slope and I told him about it. He said he would fix it; He didn't.

Ditto to the other items you mention. Those items are not breakage due to transport. They are just lousy maintenance and set up.

I think a lot of people just don't know how to maintain their machine. Maybe that's their only machine, and that's how they're used to it. The electrical draw at the show is also a factor. I know none of mine played quite as well there as at home, even after I've made sure the angle is the same, etc. They play 'right' again after I bring them back, so it's not wear and tear at the show or on the road.

There's no excuse for unleveled or 2 degree games though, you know then that someone put the legs on, hit the power switch, and walked away

At TPF a couple of years ago; there was an on-site free tech to debug machines (that break during the show).
I didn't use them in 2017; so do not know if they had one onsite.
In short; at TPF; it pays to know if there are services of an on-site tech.

It's never worth admission - at minimum your gonna have to clean it up and rewax. Probably something will break though as well, plus general wear and tear to factor in 700 games or so on it. The admission isn't the point (or it shouldn't be rather) - it's about sharing your game with the community rather than sitting as a museum piece in your basement that few people outside of your family And friends will get to play.

And certainly people do bring non working games or games that are dirty, barely working flippers, etc. it's super annoying for event organizers to see non working games brought. Of course few people want their pristine machines getting hammered on so it makes sense that games still needing a shop job show up, etc. and it's still generous to bring them. But non working games hoping that an on site tech will fix them -- not OK!

I absolutely, whole-heartedly appreciate the people who bring games. I do. And yes, I've brought a game to every show I've gone to.

TPF 2014: Quicksilver
TPF 2015: Quicksilver (award), Xenon (award)
TPF 2016: Af-Tor (award)
TPF 2017: Bally Game Show
Expo 2014: Quicksilver, Pharoah
Expo 2015: Space Station
Expo 2016: Raven (multiple awards)

I have had things break on my games and fixed every single issue. A slingshot arm broke on Quicksilver in 2015. Still worked, but bumped the ball instead of kicking it. Could have left it the rest of the show and it would have been fine, but wouldn't have provided the player with the experience I wanted them to have. Luckily, Chris Munro hooked me up with a part at the show and I replaced it.

There were two Ravens at Expo last year, and while the other one was better cosmetically, mine worked better and was more fun to play. I noticed people were playing mine while the other one sat unplayed.

Our machines are not merely on display at shows. They are interactive games for the attendees to enjoy. When you bring a game to a show you're a vendor. You have a responsibility to keep your product in working order at the best of your ability. You can't simply set it and forget it.

If they didn't wax it before then they're not going to wax it after

Anyone would gladly pay $20 rather than lugging a machine to a show. It's really a major pain in the ass. I bring games because that's the only way a show works, you have to do your part. Games are there to play only if people bring them. A lot of people have games in rough shape and they just don't know how to fix them up properly or don't have the patience. Or they bring something they're not interested in fixing up so they can sell it.

What really is a bummer is hauling a game all the way to a show and when you get there it is dead on arrival. Happened to me at PAGG this year with my Lost World. I guess it will make its first playable show at the new Golden State show next year. Well at least Frontier made it almost the duration of the show, quit the last hour with a sticking switch in a saucer hole.

BLUF: Not relation to any specific show, but it used to be REALLY common.

It was an old seller's trick, and an owner could care less about a free admission.
It was all about abusing the hell out of FREE TECH REPAIR.
The game would usually be fixed (including replacement parts!), and the owner would immediately sell the game and take it off the line, sometimes very cheap. Sometimes seasoned techs were just completely awestruck at this audacity, less than a couple hours later.
Individual blacklists had to be formed off these incidents, rules for shows were changed, mandatory "power up and testing" required before a game was allowed on the floor, and general mindsets of what was expected were tightened, especially if an unknown individual was bringing entire truckloads of games.
It still happens today with "ash and trash", but that person is not allowed back the next year.
Who knows, maybe it is on the rise again with new owners?
I don't run the shows, just watch the results and volunteer when I can.

This is why there are dedicated separate times for flea markets and projects, not inside the pinball shows.

If shows don't have volunteers who know how to maintain their donated games, there are no shows.
That is a simple non-disputable fact.
Every major pinball show in the world grew out of restorers and collectors, not players and certainly not the first time pinball owners so prevalent today. Some of the biggest shows had the humblest of beginnings, and there are those still around that remember how they started. Pick any show of choice.

If a person is dedicated to the hobby, donate a game for a couple of days.
It is not that difficult unless you live far from a show location.
If so, it might be time to make a few more hobby acquaintances.
People that might state they would never bring their private collection to a show, are not about the show anyway, only themselves.
That is not what makes this hobby go round once you move past the NIB circles and the first few years of ownership.
Mindsets can change, or owners just move on and sell out.
In some cases it takes time for attitudes to change, but it generally does happen one way or another.

That is why I donate my games for show play. On both counts. I actually enjoy watching people play my games and experiencing something physical (rather than virtual or digital). I also want them hammered on to find out where the failure points are. I've found that if a game survives the first day it'll survive the remainder of the show with little or no maintenance.

I rebuild entire games (above and below playfield as well as inside cabinet), put on about 30+ plays testing them and donate them for show play. Hot off the rebuild press. They play like there's no tomorrow.

Last year was the first year I had freshly rebuilt games. I think I had three. This year I have five possibly six. All with typically < 50 plays since restoration. I'll have some photos of them in the NWPAS thread in the next few days or so.

It happens sure. I remember actually over the course of 2 or 3 years at the same show held each year somebody brought along either an Evil Knieval or some old Bally game like that and every show it turned up broken and left broken, switched off for the entire 2-3 days it lasted. The techs just flat out refused to fix it because it was totally obvious this game was brought broken, and would leave broken. I was impressed it went so long without the owner actually trying to fix it or even sell it at the shows!

a couple of games at a show here in the UK, NLP, developed faults and the community running the show fixed them where it was possible even including swapping out some meaty parts (there was a parts dealer on site too!). i'm going to bring a machine because of this to the next NLP.

For our NW Pinball Show, games are usually in good working order. Bring a broken game and you will probably be shamed!

We have an active collector community and repair parties leading up to the show each year. People get together at different people's houses and bring their games and help teach how to or assist in getting games in good playing condition. There are "medics" on hand at the show keeping games up and running.

It is coming up fast! Gotta get ready!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Right on. We are part of a community and part of the fun is sharing what you have with others while enjoying what they have. There would be ZERO conventions without the generosity of the collecting world. It is better to give than receive and all that...

You can be part of the solution. Bring a working game to the show; and meet local collectors on setup day. A lot of people take pride in what they bring, and approach it as 'a show', like dog show, horse show, reptile...

Or, you can just get on the inner-web and rag on what others are not doing for you.

Yeah, admission dollars are needed too, but *public* usually covers that end of the pinball shows.

There are ALWAYS a handful of bad apples at every show I have been to. I have even heard them refer to some games as a "show game" Typically they look for a crappy EM they buy for $100-$200 bucks just prior to the show. They get the flippers kind of working and bring it.

It gets them in for free and any party perks. They try to sell it in the first hour for $400.

On sunday they just look for the cheapest deck on the floor and buy it for $200.

Rinse and repeat.

I still remember playing your Quicksilver at Pinball Expo 2014, that was an enjoyable experience! That spinner sound running through your upgraded sound system was really cool

Can't say I have noticed too many broken down games purposely brought to shows over the years just to gain free attendance. I guess it happens.

Wow! Notice most of this does not happen at our shows here in NorCal! The owners I've met take great pride in what they bring to shows! I was with Pinballew when his pin quit.He was very upset!Sure,there is the exceptional owner who takes advantage! The Pin Medics here are fantastic, and dedicated to operating a 100% working show! Sounds to me like more brotherhood should be spread around!!Looks like thats a little thin in some places!! Peace!!!!

You have to remember that most games in a home collection get played maybe 40 times in a week, then you bring them to a show, and suddenly they can get 200 plays in a day. Over the course of a typical three day show, this very quickly adds up, and a lot of stuff just simply breaks. I was a tech at PAGG this year, and out of nearly 250 games on the show floor, i'd say about 10 went down, and were pretty much declared unplayable. We only pulled a few off the floor at the owners request. Most of the machines that 'broke' were simple fixes, and were back up and running in a few minutes as soon as a tech could get to them. I'd say this was pretty good given that most of the machines were over 30 years old. I don't recall any machines that were 'broke' when they hit the floor on the first day.

I remember being at Pacific Pinball Show a few years ago and this was a complaint. People would bring in broken games, and i mean *broken*, and get them fixed for free. They changed their game bring system because of it to vet games before they show up.

Additionally, there's a couple shows here in the midwest where the show promoter brings lots of broken games, and the techs have to fix them (for free.) Or not fix them... After a few times of that, techs started to pan those games and skip over them. It made the techs pretty mad when the promoter basically makes their job much harder.

just as a note, at our Ann Arbor show we do LOTS of prep work to make sure games stay working. For 2017 we started the show with like 362 games restored/working and when the show ended, was had the *exact* same number still working. That is we had a *zero* failure rate. Did things break during the show? Sure! but we fixed them immediately. Also people that brought games we fixed too (and donate the parts). I don't know any other show on the planet that can make that statement.

@hawkmoon: Always spreading the pinball love. (Now if we could just get him into EMs...)

I always bring games to any show I go to out here, and I always spend a lot of time vetting them and dialing them in. My Night Rider EM has done prolly 1500 plays @ shows in the last 3 years and the only fix has been a busted flipper coil wire (fixed between closing Saturday and opening Sunday at PAGG this year).

I did have a catastrophic mpu failure on my Speakeasy @ CAX one year. Happened on Saturday morning. I was bummed, and I didn't go get my free shirt. The next year it had an Alltek in it AND I had a spare.

Thank you so much, camping neighbor!

While I was working!

This is key. I'd peel off a 20 every day to walk into pintastic. Great show. Great friends. But to be honest the show would take a major hit if I didn't do what I do. 7 games pintastic year one (My first ever show). 13 games pintastic year two. 5 games at Allentown this year. This year for pintastic I'll have 15 games in free play. Fifteen games. All shopped , leded rebuilt flippers and clean.

Out of all the games I brought 2 had fatal flaws. The first was a sharkeys shootout which died due to acid on a chip on the mpu I didn't see. The second was a bk2k where I was fixing a flipper coil that broke a lug off. When I replaced it I swapped 2 wires frying a board and the coil.

I've wanted to take a pin to SFGE for the last couple of years but I would feel bad if it didn't make it the hole show. To be honest I wouldn't want another tech working on my machine without some compensation. All my machines are the best that I can get them. Last thing I want is to get a bad name from other pinball enthusiast saying my games should have never been brought or that there not working on it because it doesn't meet there standards. One day I'll try it but I have a feeling I have a lot to learn before that happens.
To all that bring machines to shows, thank you. Shows are possible because people like you keep them going.

I hope you do. I wouldn't pre plan on getting only the negative. You'll have lots of fun, be part of the action. And may meet a new friend or two, or learn more about your game, than you normally would have.

LTG : )

I wouldn't be shy if I were you. I had only been collecting games for about 6 months before I took a couple games. Don't feel bad if people want to help you fix your games. It's one of the many things that is awesome about this hobby.

The games we're talking about are the ones that people knowingly bring broken games to a show for whatever reason and it stinks. Thankfully it's not that common.

Several people from my league brought games to Rocky Mountain Last year. Shows are TOUGH on games. Both of the games I brought - CSI and HS2 broke down several times during the show and have never given me trouble at home. I got them up everytime I saw them down. They just see so much play. Even a friends GOT went down a couple of times and that was a brand new game! Bringing a game really made me appreciate those who do.

I went to TPF and Allentown this year. I didn't take a game to TPF. While I was at TPF I did see a couple of games with only a 2 degree slope and unplayable. I only found one POS game. It was a SS pin that broke down two hours after the doors opened the first day. The flippers were weak, and it didn't reset the drop targets correctly, one of the drop targets would drop when hit, but would not spot that light. The game went down several times in two days and the owner obviously didn't shop the game beforehand. If a game breaks down once I can understand that as things happen. If it breaks down several times then you shouldn't have brought it, and you probably brought it for free admission.

I brought my The Getaway: High Speed II to Allentown. In transit the wire for the gear shifter/ball launcher broke off. I asked the staff for help during set up day. They found two local collectors Jeff and Bob and they helped me fix my game. It probably had 4-500 plays throughout the weekend until it broke down late in the afternoon the second day. I walked by my game about once an hour and asked the current player if it was working fine. A local collector who also owns a Getaway looked at it and told me that the transistors tied to the magnets for the supercharger ramp failed. Not much that I could do about that at the show. I think that there will always be a few bad characters at every show. If you bring a game to the show, don't just walk away from it after setup, stop by and make sure that it working, OR at least post your phone number on the card so that someone can text you when your game goes down. If your game goes down, ask someone on staff if they know someone who can help.

It's always nice seeing a "text me" card on a pin at a show for when issues pop up.

Those Pin Medics at Pin-a-go-go are awesome. I brought 3 games and 2 were up the whole time, but Jumping Jack went down briefly on Saturday. I was messing around trying to get it back up and the Pin Medics totally came in and helped me out. It was awesome watching them work. Maybe they showed extra care because I was right there trying to get it back up and running, but I also think it is because the people at that show are generally awesome and that carries over. I don't think people abuse the system there. I was checking on my games every few hours.