(Topic ID: 300067)

Bringing this Aces & Kings back to life.

By JT-Pinball

18 days ago


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  • 37 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 days ago by HowardR
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#1 18 days ago

Hello all, I don’t normally mess with EM games but my sister got this old Aces and Kings with a house she purchased. Knowing I work on games she had me come get this things and see what I could do. I printed off the manual and schematics for the game, changed the fuses, and have set off on the adventure of bringing this back to life. Upon power up it allows me to add credits and coin up a game. Even multi player. But the motors seem to run constantly. The score displays don’t reset to zero and game is clearly far from playable. Sound like from reading the guide that the worse mistake is ripping to much apart to fast. I’m looking for some help with what to do first?

#2 18 days ago

Which of these relays/switches are keeping the motor running?

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#3 18 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Which of these relays/switches are keeping the motor running?
[quoted image]

I’m not sure. I’m going to post some pictures so people can see what I’m looking at. I’ll also look at the manual and schematic and compare it to the picture above and see if any of those relays and or switches look stuck. Have to use the manual to find them. ;(

#4 18 days ago
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#5 18 days ago

Ok. So when the motor is running the 3-4 reset and the 1-2 reset are clicking constantly.

#6 18 days ago

They will until all reels reset to zero. Are they advancing when the reset relays are pulsing?

#7 18 days ago

No the displays don’t move back to 0. I assume that they advance forward back to 0

#8 18 days ago

If you set ALL of the reels to "1" -- do any of them move? (You can pull the plastic attached to the plunger to advance the reels by hand.)

The reset relays are responsible for pulsing the score reels on player 1&2 and 3&4.

I've got a 4-player 1970 Williams EM myself, lots of reels to get just right!

#9 18 days ago

I love them all to 1 and hit the game. Some of them move some of them don’t. They all seem gummed you and slow moving. Am I right to think may need to clean the score reels first?

#10 18 days ago

You can also manually move them all to 0 and see if that makes the two reset relays stop, taking you further down the startup sequence

#11 18 days ago

They may be sluggish, especially if someone "greased" them up in the past. You may be able to tell by manually advancing them whether they are sluggish.

Joy of a 16 reel game -- lots of them to clean. You can always start with Player 1 and just put Players 2-4 to 0 and ignore multiplayer games for now.

Also, you could clean the switches on the reset relays and make sure they are gapped correctly, in case they are the culprit.

#12 18 days ago
Quoted from Peruman:

You can also manually move them all to 0 and see if that makes the two reset relays stop, taking you further down the startup sequence

I have done this. They both still click. Motor still keeps running

#13 18 days ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

They may be sluggish, especially if someone "greased" them up in the past. You may be able to tell by manually advancing them whether they are sluggish.
Joy of a 16 reel game -- lots of them to clean. You can always start with Player 1 and just put Players 2-4 to 0 and ignore multiplayer games for now.
Also, you could clean the switches on the reset relays and make sure they are gapped correctly, in case they are the culprit.

Yes. They are all super sluggish. I took one apart for player one. The grease someone used in the past has turned to glue. It’s causing the levers that tell the game it hit nine and zero to stick. So looks like to start I need to try to clean these reels and see if I can get the motor to stops. Even when I set them all to zero manually motor is still going and relays click

#14 18 days ago

So in a as game you basically never use lube. I’m this I’m assuming it’s ok to use a little dry lube on the shafts the reels and stuff are on or just no lube? One of the guides says use Teflon dry lube. I was about to go to Home Depot

#15 18 days ago

SuperLube is popular. Any pivot points may want a very small amount, some people put a bit on the copper PCB where the switches ride. Less is more. New coil sleeves can also make a difference.

You will also want to check the switches that indicate a "0" on the reel. This is how the machine "knows" the score reel is at 0.

The score motor may keep running anyways until everything is reset. Possible that all the "0" switches are okay and something else is preventing the reset sequence from completing.

Part catalogs are available on www.planetarypinball.com, they have useful diagrams and are cool to look through.

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#16 18 days ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

SuperLube is popular. Any pivot points may want a very small amount, some people put a bit on the copper PCB where the switches ride. Less is more. New coil sleeves can also make a difference.
You will also want to check the switches that indicate a "0" on the reel. This is how the machine "knows" the score reel is at 0.
The score motor may keep running anyways until everything is reset. Possible that all the "0" switches are okay and something else is preventing the reset sequence from completing.
Part catalogs are available on www.planetarypinball.com, they have useful diagrams and are cool to look through.
[quoted image]

Awesome thanks. I picked up some dry lube and I’m going to try to rebuild the reels and check the switches. If I ever want the game to run seems like this is first I’ll do player one first see if I can get to reset and go from there.

#17 18 days ago

Remember, rhe coil and plunger take NO lube. Just clean with alcohol and q-tips.

#18 17 days ago
Quoted from ArgosySK:

Remember, rhe coil and plunger take NO lube. Just clean with alcohol and q-tips.

Got it! Just like on the SS games. This has way more stuff moving than a SS. These things are like a Swiss watch. Fascinating! Almost done cleaning up player 1. Hopefully they all roll. They definitely work manually better than they did. I think one of them the springs are too loose.

#19 17 days ago
Quoted from JT-Pinball:

Got it! Just like on the SS games. This has way more stuff moving than a SS. These things are like a Swiss watch. Fascinating! Almost done cleaning up player 1. Hopefully they all roll. They definitely work manually better than they did. I think one of them the springs are too loose.

You can swap score reel parts with player four if player one stuff is worn.

#20 15 days ago
Quoted from AlexF:

You can swap score reel parts with player four if player one stuff is worn.

I don’t see any warn parts. Biggest issue seems to be burnt coil sleeves.

#21 15 days ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

SuperLube is popular. Any pivot points may want a very small amount, some people put a bit on the copper PCB where the switches ride. Less is more. New coil sleeves can also make a difference.
You will also want to check the switches that indicate a "0" on the reel. This is how the machine "knows" the score reel is at 0.
The score motor may keep running anyways until everything is reset. Possible that all the "0" switches are okay and something else is preventing the reset sequence from completing.
Part catalogs are available on www.planetarypinball.com, they have useful diagrams and are cool to look through.
[quoted image]

Ok so I have the player one reels rebuilt. They all seem to clicks thru nice and smooth. I didn’t pull the switches apart I just cleaned them with some burnish cloth on both sides. I didn’t see anything broken it’s all just gummed up with old geese. The switches on the reel are working or seem to be just like in this diagram. But now as soon as I switch the game on the 1000 reel locks on. I don’t remember this happening before. This is before I even try to push start.

#22 15 days ago
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#23 13 days ago

Found the short in the wiring to the solenoid for the 1000 position for player 1. Coil no longer locked on. Yeah!!! Now when I push start on the game the player 1 score reel goes to all zeros and stops. Relays and motor keep running. I assume that since the reel resets that I must be on the correct path. I’m going to rebuild the player two reel. I assume also that if I get it right that not only will the reel reset to zero but the reset relay should stop clicking? Sorry if I sound dumb. I don’t think I have even played an EM before....

#24 13 days ago

Looking at the schematic quickly, I think you'll need the bonus to reset as well.

The 1&2 / 3&4 reset relays will keep pulsing until all reels indicate 0 and the bonus is reset.

If you look at the score motor in the schematic, you'll see that a switch on the reset relay will keep it energized. Until the reset sequence is done the score motor will keep running.

#25 13 days ago

Ok so as far as the switches on the reels are concerned. If they stop at zero when you push the button to start a game are they set and reading correctly? The player one and two are rebuilt and both all stop at zero. I thought I reset the bonus wheels on both sides. But not sure it made a difference. Relays for reset still click and motor still runs. I was hoping that the player 1-2 relay would stop....

#26 13 days ago

Well I rebuilt player 3. The 1000 spot zeros out. The hundreds keeps rolling 10 dose not move and the 1s keeps rolling. I checked the switches and they seem correct ? I’m sure I’m missing something. What’s interesting is that even even I pull the switch for the 10s it dose not fire the solenoid.

#27 13 days ago

for the reels that keep moving. Check that all switch on the reel are open when at zero.
Also check for solder beads or touching wires.

here is a website with a visual. http://pinballaustralia.com/williamsreel.htm

I would check these two switches for the 10 point relay. (One is on the score reel).

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#28 13 days ago

Ok by adjusting the switches a bit more all the reels reset on player 1 thru 3 except for the 10s on player 3 it still dose not move. I looked at the 10 pt relay it appears to be closing all contacts. The 1s score reel also appears to have switches in correct position. Way I read the above posed schematic

#29 13 days ago

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

#30 13 days ago

I would check the 3-4 reset relay. See if switch with the blue/white wire is clean and making good contact with common wire.

Also check the 3rd player 10 point score reel coil. loose wire or burnt coil maybe the issue.

#31 12 days ago
Quoted from ArgosySK:

I would check the 3-4 reset relay. See if switch with the blue/white wire is clean and making good contact with common wire.
Also check the 3rd player 10 point score reel coil. loose wire or burnt coil maybe the issue.

My guy!!!! The switch in the 3-4 reset relay was dirty. It made contact but didn’t make electrical connection. Cleaned the contact and the 10 point wheel now also resets to zero!

I’m going to go ahead and clean the 4th player reels. I’m not convinced that doing so will make the reset relays quit constantly engaging or the score motor to quit running. But it’s at least cool to set all the displays to 1111 and watch them roll to 0000. It will need done anyway. Once I have it resetting hopefully figure out why the relays won’t stop....

#32 12 days ago

Well I have one more reel for player 4 to be done. The 100 and 1s on this has never moved. All displays now reset to 0000 when I push start! I will take this as progress!!! Now why do the reset relays keep going and the motor not stopping? My crazy ass dog ate the lousy print out schematic I had. I’m going to go to the printer tomorrow and have it printed out so old guys can read it.

#33 12 days ago

The Reset relay won't release until all 16 Drum (score) unit zero position switches are open AND the Bonus Reset relay has released

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#34 12 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

Yeah when the squirrels called this game home. They may have not adjusted a few of them in this way. When I got the acorns out I may have missed a few things.

#35 12 days ago
Quoted from HowardR:

The Reset relay won't release until all 16 Drum (score) unit zero position switches are open AND the Bonus Reset relay has released
[quoted image]

Ok. So I cleaned and adjusted the contacts on the bonus relay. It pulls in as soon as I coin up a game. But if I pull the relay in to get it to disengage the relays stop and the motor stops. Then it starts humming. Almost sounds like something else is locked on. But it try’s to eject a ball and digs the bell as it starts up. I think I may be getting closer. Thanks for your help and everyone else who has helped me get this old thing moving again.

#36 11 days ago

So a wee bit more adjusting and the game starts. I had to manually adjust the left and right side bonus stepper to the reset position. Someone makes the plate on both. I assumed this was reset. But after looking at the manual I can see it was not. I reset them and the game starts and plays. Bonus won’t reset during game or on reset tho. The mech is gummed up some but advances fine and if I pull the levers away the reel resets to zero again. When the reset cycle starts I can see the decrement coil fire. But it fires with not enough ass to pull the lever. Coil and sleeve have been cleaned and mech is dirty but not jammed. The coil just isn’t firing all the way?

#37 11 days ago

If you're sure one of the 2 Bonus Reset solenoids isn't getting enough power,
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

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