(Topic ID: 247878)

Bricked system Williams system 3.

By oilspot

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 34 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by oilspot
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

1563915691473-264817513 (resized).jpg
20190723_103022 (resized).jpg
1563910571769-1266133263 (resized).jpg
15639104861062021081696 (resized).jpg
20190723_091512 (resized).jpg
20190723_091547 (resized).jpg
20190723_091624 (resized).jpg
20190723_083909 (resized).jpg
20190723_084125 (resized).jpg
20190723_083955 (resized).jpg
20190723_083946 (resized).jpg
#1 4 years ago

After some successes doing minor board work on Williams, Bally, Gottlieb system 80 and Game plan, I thought I could handle rebuilding the system 3 mpu in my freebie "Disco Fever" which was booting into audit mode with battery rot issues. Replaced all the Scanbe sockets, relocated game ROM, cut and jumped the chip select circuit, burned a 2716 (which may not work, I haven't burned a good ROM yet) added socket and NVRAM in place of 5101, ohmmeter said it was good and it looked decent. Only lifted one pad which wasn't t connected to a trace.. Eagerly put the boards back in and.... Two LEDs lit, no flicker. Tried it without driver board, same. Back to the bench. Hooked up power 5v & 12v, hit switch and LEDs blink twice... Weird. Start buzzing around with logic probe and notice flipper ROMs are HOT! Power off. Power it back up, nothing . back in game, nothing, dead. Sending it out to a pro is no longer an option, crossed the Rubicon already with a "hack".... And Disco Fever is hardly worth a $325 Rottendog board. So it looks like Firepower sitting next to it is getting some displays, my parts bin is getting bigger, and EBAY is getting some more listings. And I'm gaining experience the hard way this time. Ouch.

20190723_083909 (resized).jpg20190723_083909 (resized).jpg20190723_083946 (resized).jpg20190723_083946 (resized).jpg20190723_083955 (resized).jpg20190723_083955 (resized).jpg20190723_084125 (resized).jpg20190723_084125 (resized).jpg
#2 4 years ago

Oh, and my apologies for the photography looking like it was done by Bob Guccione.

#3 4 years ago

Better shots

20190723_091512 (resized).jpg20190723_091512 (resized).jpg20190723_091547 (resized).jpg20190723_091547 (resized).jpg20190723_091624 (resized).jpg20190723_091624 (resized).jpg
#4 4 years ago
Quoted from oilspot:

Hooked up power 5v & 12v, hit switch and LEDs blink twice... Weird. Start buzzing around with logic probe and notice flipper ROMs are HOT! Power off. Power it back up, nothing . back in game, nothing, dead.

ROMs plugged in backwards or 5V and 12V connected the wrong way around?

#5 4 years ago

Power connections, yellow is 5v

15639104861062021081696 (resized).jpg15639104861062021081696 (resized).jpg1563910571769-1266133263 (resized).jpg1563910571769-1266133263 (resized).jpg
#6 4 years ago

Select modification. .

20190723_103022 (resized).jpg20190723_103022 (resized).jpg
#7 4 years ago

I don't dare order up a proper set of roms for it if it's just gonna fry em. This one's on the bubble right now..

#8 4 years ago

Let it die with dignity. The only redeeming quality is the banana flippers. Get a Time Warp if that's your thing.

#9 4 years ago

Most guys would still look at that for a repair job. Your work is far from the type of hack that repair guys will turn down. I see the jumper for the chip select update, did you also do the associated trace cut?

I'm feeling generous today..... want to try one of my single-rom adapters at no charge? I think I have a disco fever chip already sitting here too. All I'd ask in return is that you make an honest attempt to keep the machine running, and try to avoid parting it out.

Even the less popular machines are becoming more and more rare, I hate to see machines get parted out if not necessary.

-Hans

#10 4 years ago

I would absolutely love to do that Hans!, I really would like to keep this game running, cheesy as it is. The trace is cut too... so the single ROM adapter, does that replace the flipper roms as well as the game rom? I have an old EPROM burner here, as well as a UV eraser, but haven't yet been able to produce a working chip. The software verify the chip fine but never had one that actually works in a game.

1563915691473-264817513 (resized).jpg1563915691473-264817513 (resized).jpg
#11 4 years ago

The adapter will replace all the ROM chips, flipper roms and game roms.
Completely bypasses the original ROM circuitry.

Shoot me over your address and I can get it on the way. Might be a day or two, as I don't have any completely assembled right now, I'd have to finish one up before I can send.

-Hans

#12 4 years ago

Thanks soooo much, PM sent.

1 week later
#13 4 years ago

Holy schnikes, I just looked at the power connections in that pic above and although I stated "yellow is 5v" I'm pretty sure its 12. Now what did I fry?

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from oilspot:

Holy schnikes, I just looked at the power connections in that pic above and although I stated "yellow is 5v" I'm pretty sure its 12. Now what did I fry?

Ooof... not good. When i first saw your picture with the yellow lead on the 5v plug I cringed, but when I read your note about it being 5v i thought. "Hrmm thats odd to be reversed, but OK."

12v down the 5v rail probably killed any eproms (masked ROMs more likely to survive for whatever reason), the 3 memory chips, the cpu chip, the PIA. 74(ls) and 4000 series chips usually survive

I would be testing the socketed chips and etc in a known working good board to see where you are at.

#15 4 years ago

Good news is the new NVRAM survived, tested it in another game and it still worked. (you make em tough I guess!) The reset section still works, ROMS are now irrelevant since I have Hans' ROM adapter now with a single chip for everything. Guess next is to inventory what I have around here for chips or grab a random board off Fleabay and start over...

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from oilspot:

Good news is the new NVRAM survived, tested it in another game and it still worked. (you make em tough I guess!) The reset section still works, ROMS are now irrelevant since I have Hans' ROM adapter now with a single chip for everything. Guess next is to inventory what I have around here for chips or grab a random board off Fleabay and start over...

That is a good sign. I am surprised the 74HCT00 chip on the and the FM16W08 itself did not die. HC(T) chips do not seem to like over voltage.

Sometimes when you hook up over voltage one device goes low resistance and brings down the voltage or makes the power supply current limiting kick in hopefully saving other stuff.

#17 4 years ago

There are various test chips out there, could one of those help diagnose the faults?

Don C.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from SadSack:

Let it die with dignity. The only redeeming quality is the banana flippers. Get a Time Warp if that's your thing.

Time warp??

#19 4 years ago

Can't believe I did such a bone head move... doh!

#20 4 years ago

Time warp with regular flippers on it as about 2000 of them were is a fun game.

I wonder if disco fever with the regular flippers would be as well? I ALMOST bought one a couple years ago at pinfest since it was super cheap but I'm outta room.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

Time warp with regular flippers on it as about 2000 of them were is a fun game.
I wonder if disco fever with the regular flippers would be as well? I ALMOST bought one a couple years ago at pinfest since it was super cheap but I'm outta room.

I put regular flippers on Time Warp when I had one. I thought it was more fun to play that way. It also had a center post between the flippers someone added in at some point before I got it. Normally I would not want a not stock center post but I kept it because of the large flipper with regular flippers.

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I put regular flippers on Time Warp when I had one. I thought it was more fun to play that way. It also had a center post between the flippers someone added in at some point before I got it. Normally I would not want a not stock center post but I kept it because of the large flipper with regular flippers.

That's odd I just had an extra time warp that I robbed for boards and someone had put a mini post in the center also. But, then they went and removed the ball gate from the 30k lane to the collect bonus. Odd.... they wanted more ball time, but with less score. I removed the post and added the gate back in before passing it on.

#23 4 years ago

I ordered a set of standard flippers for mine in case i didnt like the banana flippers.

1 week later
#24 4 years ago

Just a progress report. I purchased an allegedly working system 3 board off Fleabay and as a typical Fleabay board, it doesn't. .. so I'm back to square one. But at least I'm back to square one! Both leds come on and stay on which is more than the one I fried does.so now I really need to figure out my EPROM burner and try to get Leon's test rom. Or throw in the towel and order the reconditioned 3-4 board from K's Arcade for $160, which I probably should have done in the first place but then I would have learned nothing.

#25 4 years ago

Forgot to add, I did buzz around the CPU chip (installed in Hans' ROM adapter) and the CPU is running.I'm seeing good pulse activity at all the address and data lines there.

2 weeks later
#26 4 years ago

Update. Finally found some time to give DF some attention. The Ebay board was different from my original in that many more chips were socketed. All Scanbe, yay! So I heated up the irons Monday and replaced the CPU, PIA, RAM, ROM and a few other sockets. There's one Scanbe socket left because I didn't have a 16 pin DIP socket for the bottom right. IC (forget the number) powered it up with Leon's test ROM at ic17 and the LEDs began blinking in unison. Good! Now were getting somewhere. Good pulse activity around CPU and pia outputs. Put Hans' adapter board and ROM back in and both LEDs lock on, no flash. With test ROM in and adapter with ROM it flashes both. Memory test with NVRAM installed flashes one then the other then resumes normal flashing . I'm thinking there's something I'm missing that should be obvious. Like a jumper change for the new ROM adapter or something.. I am making progress but it isn't giving up easily.

#27 4 years ago

Oh, and forgot to add, 200 desolder/solder connections on 7 or 8 chip sockets and not a single lifted trace!

#28 4 years ago

When you put my adapter in, did you also remove the ROM chips from the main board?

I will say it's not a 100% reliable design on the adapter, some boards simply don't like it, depending on what series of parts were populated on the original CPU board. It's one reason I really am not advertising the adapters much anymore.

-Has

#29 4 years ago

Thanks Hans, I did remove the original ROMS and only replaced the socket in IC17 to use the test ROM in it. I may replace a couple more sockets in that row and try some replacement EPROMs as another test.

2 weeks later
#30 4 years ago

More progress, new problems. I finally got it to boot. After replacing the ROM sockets and new EPROMs it no longer boots into audits, but it doesn't boot into game over either. The displays look normal, all zeroes, but there's no attract mode and it won't coin up. So, limbo mode. 40-pin interconnect ? I think i'm done with the MPU aside from replacing header pins, I suspect the trouble lies in the driver board or interconnect.

#31 4 years ago

If the interconnect is original, I'd recommend replacing it regardless. It'll hopefully fix the issue (or bring you a step closer), and is something that needs to be done for long-term reliability.

Glad to see you're making progress!

#32 4 years ago

This morning I decided to have some pinball with my coffee. Then I figured on buzzing around the PIA chops on the driver board on Disco Fever. Accidentally bridged a couple pins on the PIA on the rh side of the driver , pins 21&22 I think. All hell broke loose, blew the 28v fuse, both leds on the mpu came on, displays went fuzzy and dim OH NO! Turned the game off and back on went into audits. Aaaagh! Turned it off and on again.... attract mode!, hit the coin switch, credits! Hit start, and..... BOOGIE TIME!

#33 4 years ago

I did something similar a while ago trying to use my logic probe on some chips. Since then i picked up one of these "chip clips" that give you an easier vantage point to probe the legs from. Here's what I'm talking about: https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=6

#34 4 years ago

All the new bulbs, rubbers, wax, etc. Is done, played all day off and on, this game is saved! Thanks to Hans and everyone else for their expertise and help!

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 11.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
1,100 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Woolwich Township, NJ
From: $ 11.00
$ 65.00
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 170.00
Displays
Digipinball Shop
 
From: $ 90.00
Tools
Pincoder Store
 
$ 3.00
Tools
Nezzy's Pinball Prints
 
$ 130.00
Electronics
KAHR.US Circuits
 

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bricked-system-williams-system-3 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.