(Topic ID: 298469)

Bricked my R&M... Anyone have a hard drive image?

By nd4spd

75 days ago


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  • 99 posts
  • 33 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 30 days ago by Dee-Bow
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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There are 99 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 75 days ago

I couldn't get the "reset high scores" to work (even after a restart) so I decided to do the most logical thing...(?) and install the R&M hard drive into my PC, then delete the partitions, thinking I would do a fresh install, like a JJP machine. I made a mistake. Needless to say Spooky update isn't a whole image like JJP. Spooky says I need to send them the hard drive, but I would like the game up and running sooner than a few weeks. Can anyone help? Maybe someone already took an image of their R&M hard drive? Much appreciated.

An image backup is a good thing to have anyways, if the hard drive fails, then you won't be relying on a manufacture to do a software repair.

#2 75 days ago
Quoted from nd4spd:

Spooky says I need to send them the hard drive

I'm not going to beat you up too much about your process but props to you for admitting it.

The image may be tied to the hardware. If so, someone else's image won't work for you anyway.

Do they have overnight shipping up in BC? Good luck friend.

#3 75 days ago

they should have an full image like stern does. But ship 2 ways??? They can't just ship an new one out? or let you download an image?

Under right to repair laws they really should.

#4 75 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

they should have an full image like stern does. But ship 2 ways??? They can't just ship an new one out? or let you download an image?
Under right to repair laws they really should.

Does that count for Firmware IP?

#5 75 days ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Does that count for Firmware IP?

Right to repair needs to let end users fix there own stuff with out needing to be relying on a manufacture

#6 75 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

they should have an full image like stern does. But ship 2 ways??? They can't just ship an new one out? or let you download an image?
Under right to repair laws they really should.

I asked, spooky will not send me the image.

-7
#7 75 days ago
Quoted from nd4spd:

I asked, spooky will not send me the image.

Well then maybe you should tell Louis Rossmann about that as this WHY WE NEED RIGHT TO REPAIR LAWS.

#8 74 days ago

I could make an image if nothing else pans out. Have to go find my hard drive caddy.

#9 74 days ago

Wait. So if your HD fails down the road and they are no longer in business your screwed?

#10 73 days ago
Quoted from pinfarmer:

Wait. So if your HD fails down the road and they are no longer in business your screwed?

No but you'll have to buy a new one pre-installed from Spooky then, you can't just buy an empty ssd and install it yourself (like you can with JJP).

Edit - just now read you 'they are no longer in business' part.
Yes, then you'd have to find another owner that wants to make an image of their harddisk for you.

#11 73 days ago

Good endorsement for R&M. You only have 125 more pins in your collection and you can’t be without Rick & Morty for a few weeks. Tough luck

-1
#12 73 days ago
Quoted from aeneas:

No but you'll have to buy a new one pre-installed from Spooky then, you can't just buy an empty ssd and install it yourself (like you can with JJP).
Edit - just now read you 'they are no longer in business' part.
Yes, then you'd have to find another owner that wants to make an image of their harddisk for you.

Post the image online and Fight any DMCA action with an right to repair claim.

#13 73 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

Post the image online and Fight any DMCA action with an right to repair claim.

Why look for confrontation when it can be totally avoided and unnecessary? The op is looking to enjoy his game not take on the Spooky, the industry or DMCA regulations in a legal battle.

Get the image in a pvt shared Dropbox, re-image your drive and enjoy your game.

#14 73 days ago
Quoted from DeathHimself:

Why look for confrontation when it can be totally avoided and unnecessary? The op is looking to enjoy his game not take on the Spooky, the industry or DMCA regulations in a legal battle.
Get the image in a pvt shared Dropbox, re-image your drive and enjoy your game.

Serriously. Spooky has one of the best service departments, and great employees. Why go out of your way to try pissing them off?

-2
#15 73 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Serriously. Spooky has one of the best service departments, and great employees. Why go out of your way to try pissing them off?

but 2 way shipping for an HDD image is not good Customer Service

It took stern an long time form them to post the full images. Spooky and others can do the same.

JJP Did it right for an long time and they are PC based.

15
#16 73 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

but 2 way shipping for an HDD image is not good Customer Service

He messed it up HIMSELF, and admitted to doing it. Nowhere in the manual does it say to remove the HD and wipe it.

In this case, I don't see this as being anything covered under warranty, so, yeah, they have good customer service - but they're not going to cover your mistakes.

#17 73 days ago

Hopefully the image is not encrypted with SSD disks serial number, as was the case in some HDD based video games.

#18 73 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

He messed it up HIMSELF, and admitted to doing it. Nowhere in the manual does it say to remove the HD and wipe it.
In this case, I don't see this as being anything covered under warranty, so, yeah, they have good customer service - but they're not going to cover your mistakes.

I fried my tna cpu and one board. I got both from spooky within two weeks for $216 delivered. I would just buy the replacement.

11
#19 73 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

Right to repair needs to let end users fix there own stuff with out needing to be relying on a manufacture

Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

Well then maybe you should tell Louis Rossmann about that as this WHY WE NEED RIGHT TO REPAIR LAWS.

Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

Post the image online and Fight any DMCA action with an right to repair claim.

Someone seems to be a single issue voter. Settle down, man. Charlie and Spooky are the most amenable, nicest pinball guys in the business. Right to repair doesn't mean that every company has to just post up all IP. And not only are you advocating a right to full access to all images and what you want, you are then encouraging someone else to post up Spooky IP and giving legal advice on how to defend said action. No offense....well whatever offense you want to take with this actually....your grammar and spelling in this little rant leads me to be suspicious about the thoroughness of your education on this subject matter.

#20 73 days ago
Quoted from Toasterdog:

You only have 125 more pins in your collection and you can’t be without Rick & Morty for a few weeks. Tough luck

Unless they are an operator with multiple titles on location I don't think the count is accurate since there are 4 LOTR and 4 TAF showing in their collection. Even without all the duplicate titles it's still an amazing collection and guess this drive issue falls into the 1st world problems category.

#21 73 days ago

Spooky might want to consider putting their images in an escrow storage provider's vault. software startups do this all the time. It prevents a software company going out of business from impacting its customers afterwards. I don't think this is going to bite anyone, but it's a precaution if potential buyers ask about it. I doubt SPOOKY has any longevity issues, but the escrow approach gives previous licensees peace of mind by guaranteeing access to the software anytime its needed in the future if the original author is unavailable.

#22 73 days ago

Nah, I wouldn't worry about that at all, for now or the future. I am sure Spooky has images on various media as backup/archive.

Quoted from Markharris2000:

Spooky might want to consider putting their images in an escrow storage provider's vault. software startups do this all the time. It prevents a software company going out of business from impacting its customers afterwards. I don't think this is going to bite anyone, but it's a precaution if potential buyers ask about it.

#23 73 days ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

Nah, I wouldn't worry about that at all, for now or the future. I am sure Spooky has images on various media as backup/archive.

Spooky having a backup doesn't mean anything if they go out of business

#24 73 days ago

I'm just now interested in if it would work so I'll dig out my drive caddy and make an image. No idea how long it will take and to upload but I'd love to know if it works now.

#25 73 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I'm just now interested in if it would work so I'll dig out my drive caddy and make an image. No idea how long it will take and to upload but I'd love to know if it works now.

A drive image would likely be fine - *IF* you have the same CPU (Odroid H2 - early units / Asrock) as the other user. However, they will be very large as it has to be a ‘dd’ image of the entire drive.

#26 73 days ago

UPDATE: I was able to repair my partitions via a Linux computer genius. I'm back and running! However, I did learn a few things:

1. Spooky has good, friendly support, and fast at responding but all they could offer is for me to send in my motherboard and hard drive to them, they would restore it and send it back to me.

2. Spooky (on R&M, don't know about other games) uses Linux Unified Key Setup (LUKS) disk encryption. The encryption is between the motherboard and the hard drive. This means that if your hard drive OR motherboard fails, your games needs to be repaired by Spooky. I don't like this idea. With JJP, as long as your USB dongle is working, you can replace any computer component with easy and without any physical parts being sent back and forth across the country.

#27 73 days ago

I tried my using my friends hard drive from his R&M and it did not work, therefore, a backup image won't help unless the individual backs up their own actual hard drive and uses it for themselves. Oh yeah and the back up won't matter if their motherboard fails!

#28 73 days ago
Quoted from nd4spd:

I tried my using my friends hard drive from his R&M and it did not work, therefore, a backup image won't help unless the individual backs up their own actual hard drive and uses it for themselves. Oh yeah and the back up won't matter if their motherboard fails!

Need to get into the bios somehow, boot into Linux on the game, image the disk there to remove the encryption

#29 73 days ago
Quoted from chooch:

Unless they are an operator with multiple titles on location I don't think the count is accurate since there are 4 LOTR and 4 TAF showing in their collection. Even without all the duplicate titles it's still an amazing collection and guess this drive issue falls into the 1st world problems category.

That's correct chooch. I'm an operator, I haven't updated my collection. I have 6 Addams. lol

Many of my games are on 24/7 and hardware failures happen. This is my concern.

#30 73 days ago

At least we can count on the SSD not to have a mechanical failure!

#31 73 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I'm just now interested in if it would work so I'll dig out my drive caddy and make an image. No idea how long it will take and to upload but I'd love to know if it works now.

Hey Scott, you gonna be making any mods for Halloween?

#32 73 days ago
Quoted from gambit3113:

Someone seems to be a single issue voter. Settle down, man. Charlie and Spooky are the most amenable, nicest pinball guys in the business. Right to repair doesn't mean that every company has to just post up all IP. And not only are you advocating a right to full access to all images and what you want, you are then encouraging someone else to post up Spooky IP and giving legal advice on how to defend said action. No offense....well whatever offense you want to take with this actually....your grammar and spelling in this little rant leads me to be suspicious about the thoroughness of your education on this subject matter.

Gambit I’ve been enjoying your responses for years. You never disappoint! Lol. Succinct and brutally honest as always. Never change man.

#33 73 days ago
Quoted from Hayfarmer:

Hey Scott, you gonna be making any mods for Halloween?

Unlikely since I don't have the game and likely won't have easy access to one. But, we make mods for anyone who has an idea that seems realistic and can get is measurements, test fit, etc. We've made mods for several games that I don't have. As long as I can get detailed pics, measurements and test fitting we can do almost anything. Likely our trough/backboard/uv lighting kits will work from R&M.

#34 73 days ago
Quoted from nd4spd:

UPDATE: I was able to repair my partitions via a Linux computer genius. I'm back and running! However, I did learn a few things:
1. Spooky has good, friendly support, and fast at responding but all they could offer is for me to send in my motherboard and hard drive to them, they would restore it and send it back to me.
2. Spooky (on R&M, don't know about other games) uses Linux Unified Key Setup (LUKS) disk encryption. The encryption is between the motherboard and the hard drive. This means that if your hard drive OR motherboard fails, your games needs to be repaired by Spooky. I don't like this idea. With JJP, as long as your USB dongle is working, you can replace any computer component with easy and without any physical parts being sent back and forth across the country.

the boot partition is likely not useing encryption.

But linking each disk to it's own MB is WORSE then pinball 2000 and that is very bad for an embedded system.
Let's say 5 years from the now that MB fails unlike JJP you can't get an new MB and just reuse the HDD.

You know APPLE does that BS with part locking and RIGHT TO REPAIR is about fixing stuff like this. I don't want to have to buy an HDD + MB + at an mark up just to repair something that I can just buy my own part.

We need RIGHT TO REPAIR laws so they can't use IP issues to force you to buy parts from them only or say sorry you need to buy an new device.

Also say with no restore image let's say the game is on line and something happens or say an very badly timed power outage messes up your OS install.

An MB locked restore is very odd in pinball.

#35 73 days ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Need to get into the bios somehow, boot into Linux on the game, image the disk there to remove the encryption

need to get the key and then you can add your own key to it.

also it does unlock the disk to boot up so if you can get root on it!

#36 73 days ago
Quoted from nd4spd:

The encryption is between the motherboard and the hard drive.

This is inaccurate, unless I grossly misunderstood what the guy who designed the setup told me.

#37 73 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

This is inaccurate, unless I grossly misunderstood what the guy who designed the setup told me.

TMP keys?

MB UUID?

#38 73 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

TMP keys?
MB UUID?

Things I’m not going to discuss for $400 next please, Alex.

#39 73 days ago
Quoted from underlord:

Gambit I’ve been enjoying your responses for years. You never disappoint! Lol. Succinct and brutally honest as always. Never change man.

giphy.gif
#40 73 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

TMP keys?
MB UUID?

I believe they use Trusted Platform Module (TPM), but I’m not an expert.

#41 73 days ago

AFAIK LUKS is just another disk encryption scheme. I would be surprised if each game has a unique passphrase, likely the same encrypted drive image is just blasted on to a bunch of drives. I would also be surprised if there was any hardware interaction there at all, this is not how LUKS works again AFAIK. Why didn't the drive from a friend's game work.. that's an interesting question...

Ah.. yeah, looks like there is the use of TPM possibly with LUKS. Man, that really screws you then it would seem.

#42 73 days ago
Quoted from nd4spd:

I believe they use Trusted Platform Module (TPM), but I’m not an expert.

Quoted from harryhoudini:

AFAIK LUKS is just another disk encryption scheme. I would be surprised if each game has a unique passphrase, likely the same encrypted drive image is just blasted on to a bunch of drives. I would also be surprised if there was any hardware interaction there at all, this is not how LUKS works again AFAIK. Why didn't the drive from a friend's game work.. that's an interesting question...

If they are useing keys in the MB TMP chip but the boot /boot needs to be unlocked also with root and the key from the system you may be able to add your own key (May not have auto unlock on boot) But if you can get an shell with root you should be able to copy out all the files.

#43 73 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

If they are useing keys in the MB TMP chip but the boot /boot needs to be unlocked also with root and the key from the system you may be able to add your own key (May not have auto unlock on boot) But if you can get an shell with root you should be able to copy out all the files.

Time to do some sketchy shit... doo dah... doo dah

#44 73 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Time to do some sketchy shit... doo dah... doo dah

Or don’t, and just leave well enough alone. No need for all this paranoid hand wringing until Spooky is actually no longer around.

Sheesh.

#45 73 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Or don’t, and just leave well enough alone. No need for all this paranoid hand wringing until Spooky is actually no longer around.
Sheesh.

That's certainly an option. Of course there is no harm in trying to backup and protect your own investments.

#46 73 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Or don’t, and just leave well enough alone. No need for all this paranoid hand wringing until Spooky is actually no longer around.
Sheesh.

It’s more than that. If in 2 years the hdd dies, the customer can’t just fix it. It has to be sent off. Some people like to fix their own devices.

I’ll add the p3 let’s me image my game when needed.

#47 73 days ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

That's certainly an option. Of course there is no harm in trying to backup and protect your own investments.

1. Make a byte copy of your drive.
2. Wipe hands on pants

#48 73 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

1. Make a byte copy of your drive.
2. Wipe hands on pants

I’ll be curious if that works. Then owners can just keep an image backed up, that would be nice. Hopefully someone can test it.

#49 73 days ago
Quoted from northvibe:

I’ll be curious if that works. Then owners can just keep an image backed up, that would be nice. Hopefully someone can test it.

But if it locked to the MB then when that MB fails need to buy an new MB and disk from the manufacturer?

Also it's not even if Spooky is actually no longer around. But it may be well this worked with MB's back then but hardware changes may it so that it does not work to well with newer MB's.

And It better work with UEFI and not the old bios mode that may not be in newer boards years from now.

Some one may just put it in an VM like what was done with pinball 2000 down the road and good luck trying some DMCA BS to kill QEMU.

#50 73 days ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

But if it locked to the MB

It’s not Joe. Please stop repeating this.

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