Get your ass to Medieval Mars and Attack

When Pat Lawlor returned after his long sabbatical from pinball, I was skeptical he could live up to everyone's expectations. Even though some folks are still on-the-fence regarding the theme, it's arguably one of the most impressive games ever made. The flow, rules, and tech in Dialed In are awesome...it's the total package. Even though Pat lead the effort, JJP deserves credit for giving Pat the environment/freedom to do great work.

I think Brian has the same opportunity, however I'm a bit more skeptical that Stern will provide the same opportunities as JJP. We will see...definitely nice to see Brian return to pinball.

snaroff

The Shadow of the Medieval Attack.

Not the actual attack...that would be too gruesome to fathom.

This really is the best possible news in pinball! Brian has worked on many of the best games ever made. Great move by Stern. All of our wallets just got a bit lighter with this awesome news.

I like this post - rings a lot of truth. One thing left out is the out the door build and feel of the final product. Lawlor's JJP game gets that extra shine from its build and feel... Stern has been rapidly going in the opposite direction. GB is a case and point: unique and interesting design that lacks the end polish (and definitely had build issues) to make it a great pinball experience.

I'm skeptical that any great work will get that extra kick in the pants it deserves.

Yep. I think JJP still has room to grow to nail build quality (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dialing-in-dialed-in-le-96), however they nailed the important stuff. No doubt. After Dialing In my Dialed In, the game shoots fast & furious.

The other JJP design point that I love (and this comes from Jack directly), is designing a game that appeals to both casual & serious players. That's a tough task, and they nailed in for DI. From my perspective, the degree of difficulty is just perfect...with plenty of software nobs to help compensate if necessary.

By contrast, Star Wars is really only for very serious players. Sure, a casual player can flip the ball for awhile, however the rules and brutal speed make it frustrating. I appreciate Star Wars and admire what SR and DS achieved, but it's a ball buster for sure.

snaroff

Looking forward to playing Stern's ... Medieval Shadow from Mars!

"Vengeance From Venus"

Didn’t Ted direct that? I bet he could help secure the rights ...

It might sound like sacrilege, but close the outlane posts in and SW becomes only a slight drain monster. Basically I don't see it as a cheat because the game plays like a normal/fast/hard game once you do it. That one little thing makes SW an awesome game and enjoyable by everybody because of the theme, butter smooth flowing layout and the absolutely amazing software. On the other hand DI to me will never be enjoyable because of the horrendous theme. I'm also not a fan of the PL cookie cutter layouts from the last 20 years. DI to me shoots about the same as RCT, RBION or Monopoly would with a 26 inch monitor and spiffy software and without a decent theme.

Pinside every day:

"We demand innovation, imagination, and new things beyond our wildest dreams from Stern!!!! Not the same old rehashes!!!!"

Pinside today:

"We demand Shadow 2, (another) AFM2, and MM2. It's a no-brainer!!!!!!"

Cookie cutter layouts? PL definitely has a style, but not even close to cookie cutter. You want cookie cutter, then see Steve Ritchie. Cookie cutter king!

So true, that's hilarious Crazy!

Isn't TNA a throwback? And yet so good by all accounts. Sometimes less is more. And sometimes more is better. Why can't it all be good? It's all good in my book.

When you say close the outlane posts, what do you mean exactly? Just curious as I am missing the point. I understand that an adjustment can be made to make the outlanes drains less frequent, but how do you do that? Are there pre-drilled holes to move them to the left, say, on a left outlane? Thanks!

Who's doing the Beatles?

Hey John,

I did close the outlanes and it helped, but it's still a super hard game (for me). I agree the software is amazing, but I'm not sure it's fun. Some really subtle/ornate use of timers. Can't imagine playing it without hearing it (in an arcade, for example I really have a love/hate with Star Wars. Love SR's work, so it isn't going anywhere. One day I'm sure I'll learn to universally love it...or not?

DI's theme isn't horrendous! It's a Simcity vibe and all the modes are cool/fun. The only other Lawlor game I've owned is TZ...love it. It shoots nothing like DI.
Talk about butter flow...nothing more buttery than DI...

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree!

snaroff

Yoko and Linda at one point...

That's kinda modern pinball from my perspective. Why TNA has been such a breath of fresh air.

I'm a bit bummed that Brian decided to work at Stern instead of JJP.

The quality and innovation just isn't there and Stern will end up restricting Brian's creativity just to save a buck.

Put me in the minority of not being excited at all from this news.

I personally think all pinball should be to a premium level price point and be LE quality. It drives me crazy that I can only usually play Pros on route.

Anyway, I still think home pinball is a tough sell, not enough quality built product(Stern) and hard to get pinball service/support. This explosive growth has to be from new Routes, and these new guys Better hope so, because no way us home buyers can support all these companies.

Agreed, but not all modern pinball suffers from this. The Star Wars ruleset is the most dramatic example "rules gone wild".

For me, pins like Paragon/Centaur/Fathom provide that same breath of fresh air from the tech/complexity of "modern" pinball. I'm sure the TNA lighting/audio really spices things up, which is why I'd love to own one eventually. As you know, they are tough to get at the moment...

snaroff

Pinball service has always been an issue for home buyers, yet the home market is thriving. No doubt there is a limit to how many companies/pins the market can support...but that limit hasn't been reached yet.

Stern still builds a quality product, though they've had speed bumps over the years and quality isn't what it use to be. Nevertheless, these machines are over engineered for home use. If they are properly cared for, they are usually very reliable (once you get past the NIB punch list...).

snaroff

I hope Stern loosen the BOM strings a little and let Brian gone nuts for his first game, throw Lyman on code with him and that’s a game a lot of us would struggle to pass up.

Hell I’d by a My Little Pony pin if it was designed and coded by Brian and Lyman

As good as MM and AFM are if they revisited the theme and put in innovation and imagination they would be that much better. How cool would it be to have Funhouse II with more code. The game itself is the shit but the code is lacking. Add a LCD screen while they are at it. Originally that was Pappaduick's ( sorry for the spelling) idea behind Magic Girl. He wanted ToM 2. How do I know this? He told me when I bought a PF from him years ago.

Stern is a manufacturer, first and foremost. Keep that in mind.

and Lyman you mean?

Yeah

I actually just edited that before I even saw your post, two first names is always confusing

I figured you meant Brian and Eddy! Brian Eddy coded Shadow and that worked out pretty well for everybody, so he's up to the challenge (and there's something cool about one guy being in control of so much of the process). Not that I wouldn't love to play a new Brian and Lyman game, of course ...

You and Aurich can gripe all you want, The Shadow II is a no-brainer. Everything that franchise touched was gold in 1994, I'd expect nothing less twenty-five years later. I'm sure Stern's licensing team is cranking away as we speak.

I’m not saying I would not like a shadow 2. But.

I would rather see a completely new idea. Like a ready player one!

Just give me a game with dual ramp diverters again those where awesome!!

You just know something awesome is coming.

If arguably the greatest designer and coder in pinball history team up for a 3rd time the results could be epic. Hopefully they use those beautiful faceted inserts again. Exciting times ahead for sure!

Dialed In is awesome. Only dud there is WoZ. Who the f*** cares about WOZ =)

I think Stern will try to compete with TNA by remaking some of their old classics or something brand new but , simpler/ no toys / less or no ramps. The pendulum always swings back.

I doubt they’re too concerned about competing with TNA, unless it’s sold several thousand? What they should be trying to copy is that clearcoat, which is reportedly best in class.

You’re right but I guess there may be that retro/ “ what’s old is new” thing brewing and TNA may have tapped into a perhaps small but new trend that others might be smart to compete.

It would be great if they can figure it out and actually do it. If you do a search here for non licensed themes years ago they had 0 chance of happening. Then Dialed in is out... Now they're saying SR is doing one. So it's always possible.
Do those other guys own the Bally rights too? Like classic Bally remakes?

I think Stern is doing quite well competing with TNA already. They have AC/DC, TWD, MET, GOT, BM66, KISS, AS, GB, GOTG, SW etc. I would say they are competing quite well with TNA.

TNA is a nice game that has great sound, music, and lighting. That being said theres not much to it, and after several plays gets a bit boring....All the games you mentioned above have a lot more in the game, and in my opinion are more enjoyable...I would add ACDC and LOTR to your list

I'm guessing, and only, from you collection that you are strictly DMD era on collector so obviously it wouldn't appeal to you.
From the limited info I could be wrong.

You are 100% correct That being said I would own one if they were available....

I mean, you can't argue with opinion, what you feel is yours to feel. But my take as an owner? Nah. My friends who play it, the other owners I know? Nah.

They're doing fine I'm sure. But they haven't made a game since Metallica that I've had any interest in buying (to be fair I bought Star Trek, didn't last, nothing since, sold it for an ACDC, that I sold for TNA). I wouldn't say they're actually competing with TNA, they don't offer anything remotely like it, they're just way bigger than Spooky and doing their dominant market thing.

I'm sure they'll get by without me as a buyer, I can't speak for how many other feel the same.

Personally I'd be pretty stoked if TNA actually invited competition. More good games! A retro Stern with a modern upgrade could be pretty awesome.

Didn’t they try that? It was called Whoa Nellie Big Juicy Melons! It wasn’t awesome.

Uh oh Aurich isn't interested

I am not knocking TNA at all and im sure its a fun game but you can buy alot of nice Stern Pro's for like 800 less dollars that imo has way more to offer than TNA does. If Stern made a non themed bare bones game with no ramps, only one pop bumper etc and jacked the price up 800 dollars, people on here would lose their shit and go off of the deep end.

Like i said, im not knocking TNA but give me TWD, MET, GOT, AS, and many others for 800 dollars cheaper any day.

They have so many good games to offer that you can buy right now, i forgot them all. How many other companies can say that? I will edit my post, thanks.

Whoa whoa whoa!
Did Stern secretly clone Steve Kirk and hired this 2.0 to come design bad-ass solid state machines in 2018?!?
Because that sirs would make me lose my $#!t and go off the deep end...financially that is!

I think it would be pretty interesting also but at a price of say 4500 and not 6k.