Replace the electrolytic capacitor on the opto board if you're already pulling it.
Bad cap can cause flaky voltages and switch errors.
Replace the electrolytic capacitor on the opto board if you're already pulling it.
Bad cap can cause flaky voltages and switch errors.
Quoted from kvan99:As far as your other error U.L and U.R that's upper right and upper left flipper switch on BSD, there are no upper flipper but the lane change switches I'm guessing is what it's referring to. Put the game in switch mode and hit the flipper buttons are they registering correctly? You should 3 switches close for left flipper and 3 for the right when the button is held down.
UL and UR flipper are use in this game, just not as flippers. The Fliptronics board in BSD, in addition to LL and LR flippers, controls solenoid numbers 33 through 36 which include the gates for the Mist ball and is probably the source of at least some of the error.
Start by checking the fuses in the Fliptronics and go from there.
Quoted from tktlwyr:UL and UR flipper are use in this game, just not as flippers. The Fliptronics board in BSD, in addition to LL and LR flippers, controls solenoid numbers 33 through 36 which include the gates for the Mist ball and is probably the source of at least some of the error.
Start by checking the fuses in the Fliptronics and go from there.
Thanks everyone for your advice. Could anyone point me in the direction to buy some plastic protectors and maybe a plastic above the castle lock targets in the center of the playfield? Need to replace a cracked plastic. I'll show a picture of the UL and UR error in a bit, it does include switch numbers with the error.
If I can't figure it out, maybe I'll just have to order a rottendog?
Well, I opened up the backbox and seem to have fixed the mist multiball for now, but the UL flipper is throwing a problem at switch F8. Still not sure about that one.
edit: mist not working again -- it's gotta be an opto problem.
Quoted from waspinat0r:Well, I opened up the backbox and seem to have fixed the mist multiball for now, but the UL flipper is throwing a problem at switch F8. Still not sure about that one.
edit: mist not working again -- it's gotta be an opto problem.
If it's an opto issue, you should be able to observe the problem in the "Switch Edges" test in the test menu. I recently picked up a BSD and have just been this.
Any three of these opts can cause the Magnet Unload Error:
Ball on Magnet: Switch 82
Magnet Right: Switch 83
(If you want to check it while you're in there, Magnet Left tis Switch 81).
The error can also be caused by the right gate (solenoid 34) or left gate (solenoid 36) not functioning, which are controlled by the Fliptronics as I indicated earlier. This would cause the upper flipper credit dot errors you are seeing.
Quoted from waspinat0r:Well, I opened up the backbox and seem to have fixed the mist multiball for now, but the UL flipper is throwing a problem at switch F8. Still not sure about that one.
edit: mist not working again -- it's gotta be an opto problem.
As others have suggested you probably should pull the 24" opto boards and inspect it. It is mounted UNDER the PF.
I suggest replace the electro cap, carefully inspect the choke (L1) and look for dry jointed connector pins. After that it's time to replace the board as the IC used is just no longer available. The suggestions above seem to fix about 1/3 of these boards so well worth a look.
Quoted from tktlwyr:If it's an opto issue, you should be able to observe the problem in the "Switch Edges" test in the test menu. I recently picked up a BSD and have just been this.
Any three of these opts can cause the Magnet Unload Error:
Ball on Magnet: Switch 82
Magnet Right: Switch 83
(If you want to check it while you're in there, Magnet Left tis Switch 81).
The error can also be caused by the right gate (solenoid 34) or left gate (solenoid 36) not functioning, which are controlled by the Fliptronics as I indicated earlier. This would cause the upper flipper credit dot errors you are seeing.
I've actually seen all 3 of those errors. None of them are constant, though. The right and left gate function every time, and mist multiball will function up until the point to which I knock the ball off of the magnet...it never recognizes that the ball left the magnet, so if I'm in multiball, and drain, the game drains as if I drained in single ball play, kills the flippers, and ends the ball altogether.
Quoted from Homepin:As others have suggested you probably should pull the 24" opto boards and inspect it. It is mounted UNDER the PF.
I suggest replace the electro cap, carefully inspect the choke (L1) and look for dry jointed connector pins. After that it's time to replace the board as the IC used is just no longer available. The suggestions above seem to fix about 1/3 of these boards so well worth a look.
I actually ordered a homepin opto board from Pinballlife today. Should have it tomorrow.
Aha, I'm guessing the only way you can have that situation is if the mist long opto is still closed so the game thinks you didn't knock the ball off the magnet. So when the first ball drains it ends the round. This could still be the board. Since you've got one coming let's wait till you install to troubleshoot further. Kudos to Mike Homepin for making a nice board or else most of us would be going in circles with Mist issues.
Quoted from waspinat0r:The right and left gate function every time, and mist multiball will function up until the point to which I knock the ball off of the magnet...it never recognizes that the ball left the magnet, so if I'm in multiball, and drain, the game drains as if I drained in single ball play, kills the flippers, and ends the ball altogether.
Since the gates work correctly, it may just be a problem with the optos on the flipper opto boards causing the the UR/UL errors. Despite them not being needed on this game, they're still there, active and will show in the Switch Edges test by pressing the flipper buttons all the way. If they're not working, it should show the error but it shouldn't affect gameplay. Being an anal bastard, I'd fix it because I don't like credit dots. ?
Quoted from waspinat0r:Magnet unload error: I ran through the test which you'll have to see the picture which I'm enclosing the long opto appears to be one dot long -- it seems the long opto is blocked or not working at all?
Your picture shows the "Load Magnet" part of the Magnet Test. If you look on the left side of the test screen, you can see the gates on the top part of the screen (left gate closed, right gate open). Below that is one lone dot. This is the left pocket opto and shows no ball in the left pocket at the time the picture was taken. If you go to the bottom, you've got a ball on the outhole switch and three others in the trough, so no ball on the magnet at that point. Since you essentially have four balls in the trough, you should have a line of dots below left pocket opto showing that there is no ball on the magnet. You do not have that line which means either a bad set of optos for the long opto or a problem with the long opto board.
Please follow up after you get the new board in.
Quoted from tktlwyr:Since the gates work correctly, it may just be a problem with the optos on the flipper opto boards causing the the UR/UL errors. Despite them not being needed on this game, they're still there, active and will show in the Switch Edges test by pressing the flipper buttons all the way.
Your picture shows the "Load Magnet" part of the Magnet Test. If you look on the left side of the test screen, you can see the gates on the top part of the screen (left gate closed, right gate open). Below that is one lone dot. This is the left pocket opto and shows no ball in the left pocket at the time the picture was taken. If you go to the bottom, you've got a ball on the outhole switch and three others in the trough, so no ball on the magnet at that point. Since you essentially have four balls in the trough, you should have a line of dots below left pocket opto showing that there is no ball on the magnet. You do not have that line which means either a bad set of optos for the long opto or a problem with the long opto board.
Thanks for the thorough reply. I have a 24" opto board being delivered today so hopefully I'll have the issue fixed tonight. It's not BSD without fully functioning mist!
Quoted from waspinat0r:It's not BSD without fully functioning mist!
No, it's not.
When I got mine a month ago, it had Mist and Castle Lock issues. The Castle Lock had two bad optos. The Mist long opto was flakey and you could see it flickering in the Switch Edges test with no ball in either pocket. Finally, the driver board was missing +20VDC, so the magnet wasn't holding the ball. The previous owner was having fits and thought he had done everything he could to fix it. Some basic troubleshooting had it figured out 20 minutes after I got it home, aside from the flakey long opto. Once I understood how the entire Mist system and magnet test worked, it wasn't too difficult.
I look forward to your update later.
Quoted from tktlwyr:Replace the opto transmitter and receiver. The ones available from Pinball Life work perfect!
Is there anything else I should buy in case these don't work either? Are they hard to change out?
Quoted from waspinat0r:Thanks for the thorough reply. I have a 24" opto board being delivered today so hopefully I'll have the issue fixed tonight. It's not BSD without fully functioning mist!
The board you installed, was it an aftermarket board or a used board? Where did you get it from? Just curious.
Did you check the fuses on the flipper board in the head someone recommended?
Quoted from TomGWI:The board you installed, was it an aftermarket board or a used board? Where did you get it from? Just curious.
It was a homepin 24" opto board from PBL.
Quoted from waspinat0r:Is there anything else I should buy in case these don't work either? Are they hard to change out?
The right is the transmitter and can be done by loosening the ramp to get under it. Do this first, as it’s the transmitter that usually fails and that will probably get you up and running.
IIRC, the receiver on the left is a little more complicated but it’s not difficult. You can verify it’s operation by going into Switch Edges test mode and shining a flashlight into the pocket and watch for switch 82 to activate (it’ll also probably activate switch 52 (opto magnet left pocket) but you’re specifically looking for it to activate 82).
Solder 2 wires on both the transmitter and receiver.
Quoted from tktlwyr:The right is the transmitter and can be done by loosening the ramp to get under it. Do this first, as it’s the transmitter that usually fails and that will probably get you up and running.
IIRC, the receiver on the left is a little more complicated but it’s not difficult. You can verify it’s operation by going into Switch Edges test mode and shining a flashlight into the pocket and watch for switch 82 to activate (it’ll also probably activate switch 52 (opto magnet left pocket) but you’re specifically looking for it to activate 82).
Solder 2 wires on both the transmitter and receiver.
oh lord i don't even know what wires to solder..ugh
Quoted from waspinat0r:It was a homepin 24" opto board from PBL.
I do not have the homepin board and can't find any instructions online for it
but was there instructions with it?
I noticed on the images of the board there is a 12v led- is the light on?
There is also a tip1 to measure 5 volts. Are you getting 5volts?
There is also a pot in the middle of the board it looks like. Does it need to be adjusted for BSD? Someone who has used the board might be able to help further.
mine was fixed just by removing the opto "blank" on the left-hand side of the playfield. it sits right up next to the receiver opto and i guess it's there to block out light from screwing up the beam. if it's crooked or warped, it'll block the beam just enough to give you fits.
also, use the camera on an android phone to see if the transmitter is working. it'll show purple on screen. if i missed that step with you guys, i apologize.
Quoted from waspinat0r:oh lord i don't even know what wires to solder..ugh
The manual is your friend.
i went through all this with mine, too, buddy. definitely frustrating, but oh so worth it. don't give up.
Quoted from weaverj:mine was fixed just by removing the opto "blank" on the left-hand side of the playfield. it sits right up next to the receiver opto and i guess it's there to block out light from screwing up the beam. if it's crooked or warped, it'll block the beam just enough to give you fits.
also, use the camera on an android phone to see if the transmitter is working. it'll show purple on screen. if i missed that step with you guys, i apologize.
Opto "blank"?
Okay, I took some pics.
Pic 1: Inner opto on left side, seems to be working
Pic 2: Reciever? I pointed a flashlight at it, and also tried to use my remote on it, nothing in switch edges.
Pic 3: I believe this is the long range?
Woops, forgot this:
Quoted from waspinat0r:Opto "blank"?
Okay, I took some pics.
Pic 1: Inner opto on left side, seems to be working
Pic 2: Reciever? I pointed a flashlight at it, and also tried to use my remote on it, nothing in switch edges.
Pic 3: I believe this is the long range?
Wait, don't buy any parts yet..the board can be adjusted till you get the light on it to come on. I'll post instructions Mike gave me.
Quoted from kvan99:Wait, don't buy any parts yet..the board can be adjusted till you get the light on it to come on. I'll post instructions someone gave me.
The Red LED light on the board is on, if that's what you're talking about?
the short beam on the left-hand side is almost never the problem. correct, you can test that in standard switch test with a pencil or something. with your camera phone, does the long beam transmitter on the right-hand side show up purple? then you know that's "working" at least.
also, when you go into switch test, does the long beam pop up immediately as closed? i'm guessing that's the case. you can then use a tv remote and shoot it into the receiver on the left-hand side to "open" that switch. if you can't, it could be the receiver. if both the transmitter and receiver seem to be working, try removing that "blank" right in front of the long beam receiver.
Quoted from weaverj:the short beam on the left-hand side is almost never the problem. correct, you can test that in standard switch test with a pencil or something. with your camera phone, does the long beam transmitter on the right-hand side show up purple? then you know that's "working" at least.
also, when you go into switch test, does the long beam pop up immediately as closed? i'm guessing that's the case. you can then use a tv remote and shoot it into the receiver on the left-hand side to "open" that switch. if you can't, it could be the receiver. if both the transmitter and receiver seem to be working, try removing that "blank" right in front of the long beam receiver.
The long beam does pop up immediately as closed, yes. A TV remote nor Flashlight activates the receiver. And I don't know what blank you're talking about.
Unplug both J1 and J2 (the two small plugs on one end going to the TX and TX opto pair. Ensure the board has 12V supplied to it (the red LED should be on). You can have it plugged into the machine.
Place your finger firmly across all 4 pins of the J1 and J2 making a path between them. The green LED should light.
In case you have a high resistance finger....you can run a clip lead between the pin marked 'C' on J1 and the pin marked 'K' on J2 - this bypasses the RX and TX pair and all cabling between them.
If the green LED does NOT light the most likely cause is that the 'frequency center adjustment' - the small blue/white adjustment pot in the center of the PCB marked "LOCK".
This is not a volume or sensitivity adjustment but rather a frequency lock adjustment. With the two pins connected as above, gently rock this pot back and forth - at some point the green LED will light. Find the center position where it stays on and leave it.
Test by removing and reconnecting the jumper wire - the green LED should light with perhaps a very slight hesitation - this is the circuitry decoding the signal and locking to it and is perfectly normal.
Thanks to Mike@ Homepin for the instructions
Quoted from weaverj:we removed that thing and bam: mistball BSD.
my receiver worked with a tv remote, however, so that is disconcerting. you might need to replace that...
so interesting thing, when I point my remote at it and hit a button without the "blank", the switch doesn't "register" but I can see it flickering in the edge test. It never fully activates, but I can see it pulsating.
Quoted from kvan99:Welcome to the Carpathians....
Shout out to Mike also.
I just want to cut off his head and take out his heart.
Quoted from waspinat0r:I'd like to give a huge shout out to Kvan99. We now have working Mist MB! Turned out that it was the board after all and just needed to be adjusted.
(Also a huge shout out to everyone else that tried to help. I love you guys.)
Go get some 30 MILLLLIIIOOOONNNNNNS!!!!
Been chasing a Mist issue myself. I've had BSD for about 2.5 years now and while it was mostly good in the past, it could always be finicky. Recently it completely stopped working and would just do the ball dump over and over again (not something it had never done before, but this time it never comes back to life). Magnet function seems good. In all previous tests I'd do when an issue came up, the beam could be broken by my hand--that no longer happens (it stays closed unless the receiver responds to a remote control).
I replaced both capacitors, see no obvious issues on the board (L1 inductor is connected). I can see the beam from the transmitter on a camera. The receiver was fairly responsive to a remote control at close distance before, but now seems somewhat intermittent at even recognizing the remote control signal. Could that suggest the receiver opto is suspect? Getting over 12V on the receiver side, but only .95 Volts on the transmitter side (not certain what I'm supposed to be seeing there, but was expecting 12V). The .95 V reading is the same at the board, so perhaps the issue is at the board. The board itself is getting 12V (13+ I believe), and the LED is on.
Appreciate any insight anyone may have as I continue to diagnose the issue and before I throw more parts at it.
Quoted from Medisinyl:Been chasing a Mist issue myself. I've had BSD for about 2.5 years now and while it was mostly good in the past, it could always be finicky. Recently it completely stopped working and would just do the ball dump over and over again (not something it had never done before, but this time it never comes back to life). Magnet function seems good. In all previous tests I'd do when an issue came up, the beam could be broken by my hand--that no longer happens (it stays closed unless the receiver responds to a remote control).
I replaced both capacitors, see no obvious issues on the board (L1 inductor is connected). I can see the beam from the transmitter on a camera. The receiver was fairly responsive to a remote control at close distance before, but now seems somewhat intermittent at even recognizing the remote control signal. Could that suggest the receiver opto is suspect? Getting over 12V on the receiver side, but only .95 Volts on the transmitter side (not certain what I'm supposed to be seeing there, but was expecting 12V). The .95 V reading is the same at the board, so perhaps the issue is at the board. The board itself is getting 12V (13+ I believe), and the LED is on.
Appreciate any insight anyone may have as I continue to diagnose the issue and before I throw more parts at it.
Again I would suggest a new Homepin board. It's still a needed upgrade that will come into play sooner or later.
Quoted from kvan99:Again I would suggest a new Homepin board. It's still a needed upgrade that will come into play sooner or later.
Already went ahead and ordered that and both optos from PBL . Prefer to fix issues myself when possible, but after the caps failed to fix it and issues seemed to get weirder, I was willing to give up this time. Hopefully the board is the fix, and I figure the opto set is good to have on hand either way (of all my machines, BSD is the only one I couldn't imagine selling).
Quoted from kvan99:When you get the board it may not fix your issue out of the box. You may have to adjust it
The adjuster is fixed (glued) into place on my board (perhaps that's something new they are doing). Green light worked out of the box and Mist is now working, however, now the ball ends when only one ball drains during multiball--this never happened with the old board when it worked.
I now get "lamp interference" in test mode for the opto check and suspect this could be the issue, though a search here brings up the homepin board and others that have removed 20+ LEDs with the same issue persisting after installing the hompin. While my GI bulbs around the optos were always incandescent, I'll start pulling Leds in the vicinity to see if that makes it disappear.
If it never happened before the board change then logic dictates the likely cause is the board. Can you post a picture of the glued potentiometer?
You can also try to adjust the opto to see if you can eliminate the lamp interference.
Quoted from Medisinyl:The adjuster is fixed (glued) into place on my board (perhaps that's something new they are doing). Green light worked out of the box and Mist is now working, however, now the ball ends when only one ball drains during multiball--this never happened with the old board when it worked.
I now get "lamp interference" in test mode for the opto check and suspect this could be the issue, though a search here brings up the homepin board and others that have removed 20+ LEDs with the same issue persisting after installing the hompin. While my GI bulbs around the optos were always incandescent, I'll start pulling Leds in the vicinity to see if that makes it disappear.
That happened to me after my new board as well. I had to cover the flasher under the receiver opto with some electrical tape until I get a new bulb. Works fine.
Quoted from waspinat0r:That happened to me after my new board as well. I had to cover the flasher under the receiver opto with some electrical tape until I get a new bulb. Works fine.
Thanks for the lead.
EDIT: Thus far, the magnet test clearly shows that at least the Castle/Hellsing flashers interfere with the beam (beam flickers when they flicker, and the test notes flasher interference). Both of those flashers are incandescent though and shouldn't be causing such issues I would have thought.
EDIT 2: I swapped the incandescent flashers out for flat LED flashers and no longer get flasher interference in test, but still "lamp interference." Will try pulling some other LEDs. Otherwise, the magnet test still runs fine and grabs the ball, takes it back, etc. As noted, it's just ending the round with one ball drained during mist-multi (mist-multi starts fine in game after knocking the ball off track).
Quoted from Its_me_aj:Ok so just for a recap, check opto 1 never passes without failing with either a lamp interference or flasher interference. I have removed lamps in the game and still get an interference even with no lighting there. In switch test mode sometimes the switch 82 ball on magnet bounces on and off (hasn't done this for a few now). The homepin long range green light is on and fine but still throws an error for check opto 1. Everything else wis working smooth besides that.
Quoted from nthack:Hello again. More magnet test problems here in UK. I have installed a new long opto board from Homepin in Australia without any problems. Everything now works fine except when during T15 magnet tests, I get repeated Opto Check faults with a "Lamp Interference" note. Doesn't happen every time, usually on Opto Check 1 or 2. I have removed about 20 bulbs in the area, but still no luck. Is there a particular bulb which may cause this problem? Or is it something else?
Many thanks for any help.
/\/\ these posts seem to echo the lamp interference issue that showed up in relation to a homepin board.
Is there anything about the potentiometer setting on the homepin board that can adjust sensitivity?
Quoted from kvan99:Can you post a picture of the glued potentiometer?
Quoted from kvan99:Personally I would try and adjust the board next and see what results I get.
Same results for any working setting (I also tried settings outside the green range). Not a large range for working settings.
The beam responds normally to a hand blocking it (lights don't seem to cause an issue at that point), but when the opto test happens and it blinks the lights, it flickers with them.
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