(Topic ID: 150905)

Brainstorming on Mfg friendliness: Troll Filtering?


By visi0n

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 85 posts
  • 30 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by robin
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic poll

    “Troll Control - Where do you stand?”

    • Don't sensor free speech, man 5 votes
      12%
    • Trolling is fun / Trolling it not a problem here 2 votes
      5%
    • Create curated zones for manufacturers/businesses, like Officially - Official threads w/ potentially op-influenced moderation 12 votes
      29%
    • The ignore feature solves this already for me 9 votes
      22%
    • Create a troll scoreboard - a wall of shame (or pride for some!) 3 votes
      7%
    • This is a lost cause, you cannot de-troll the internet 7 votes
      17%
    • Moderate more 4 votes
      10%
    • Eject repeat-offender troublemakers altogether 9 votes
      22%
    • Do nothing - everything is fine, why is this even a topic? 10 votes
      24%

    (Multiple choice - 41 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

    Topic Gallery

    One image has been uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    rainforest-interactive-for-3rd-grade-3-728_(resized).jpg

    There are 85 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
    #51 3 years ago
    Quoted from jlm33:

    It's worth discussing. But now imagine the Zidware or Predator "official" thread, moderated by Kevin or JPop...

    Who cares though? They'd be joke threads, people would eventually stop bothering with them, and the unofficial ones would be where people talked. If there's a Jpop thread with 100 people banned who's even going to read it? Or they'll just quote from it into unofficial threads. And that's fine. You bring your own baggage with you.

    Quoted from jlm33:

    Official locked threads already exist! May be they should be used more often? Give frequent updates, link to relevant posts in other threads, external material...

    I don't like locked threads, it's good to let people ask questions. But if they're gonna shit it up with off topic stuff then I want a tool to show them the door.

    It's a huge amount of work to keep a thread on track against that. And if you spend all day doing that shit you're not working on the actual game.

    #52 3 years ago

    Hold on a second.

    Can you explain "mfg friendliness" to me? Like "manufacturing friendliness"?

    #53 3 years ago

    Also to the thick skin comment people: I certainly have it. I think I've posted here enough to show that.

    But when you're here as a company, and not just an individual, you get to a point where the toxic environment just isn't worth it anymore. I dunno why Keith bailed, but I can guess.

    If you enjoy having direct access to companies then it needs to be fixed. Building pins is enough of a headache without all the extra BS.

    #54 3 years ago
    Quoted from Barron:

    Can you explain "mfg friendliness" to me? Like "manufacturing friendliness"?

    That's where they say "oh, you've got a problem with the machine? Well, don't worry, we are sending one of our reps out asap to inspect and resolve the problem."

    -1
    #55 3 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    It's simple I do not believe any person should be able to block or control what some else posts. I'm fine with anyone being able to block and filter what ever they see, but I do not want anyone else being able to censor what I see. To me that is fundamentally wrong and a very slippery slope.

    Then you don't have to use the option, I for one would use it and I would appreciate my right to do so

    #56 3 years ago

    I don't see a reason not to implement Aurich's solution as long as the pinball business moderated threads are clearly marked as such.

    People will choose to use them---or not---based on how intrusive they find the moderation.

    Perhaps a locked unmoderated version of each such thread can exist in the basement---just to keep pinball businesses somewhat accountable for their moderation decisions.

    I don't care whether or not pinball companies find Pinside to be a viable marketing platform, but I suspect other pinsiders would enjoy it and it would be a nice accommodation for those with one foot in the industry and one foot in the hobby.

    Edit: also, there's no reason Pinside shouldn't monetize this.

    #57 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Some manufacturers only show up here when they have something to sell or somebody else to blame for a problem. But when a real problem with their product arises, they tend to go hide their head in the sand.

    It's better than not having them on Pinside at all, which is the current situation.

    Ultimately the burden is on the Pinside moderators to mitigate the trolling, but it's not working well enough for Stern, PPS, and JJP to have any representation on Pinside, and not for lack of trying... so they created their own forums that they can moderate. That's all the evidence anyone needs for the current situation on Pinside and the solution.

    #58 3 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    It's better than not having them on Pinside at all, which is the current situation.

    I disagree. If you come on this forum to take money from people, then you sure as hell should respond to anybody that has problem with it instead of waiting for the issue to just get forgotten. Just my opinion of course

    #59 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I disagree. If you come on this forum to take money from people, then you sure as hell should respond to anybody that has problem with it instead of waiting for the issue to just get forgotten. Just my opinion of course

    Why should they be forced to spend all their time responding to one or two people, over and over and over, who have no interest in anything other than stirring up shit? It is not just a pain for the manufacturer, it is a pain for anyone trying to get anything meaningful out of those threads as well.

    #60 3 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    Why should they be forced to spend all their time responding to one or two people, over and over and over, who have no interest in anything other than stirring up shit?

    I'm not talking about one or two people here. I'm talking about many game buyers that have posted problems but no response on this forum. Yet they still post new items for sale. That's what I'm seeing. Lots of frustrated buyers.

    #61 3 years ago

    Give tha manufactures the choice of feed back or no feedback

    If a recognized manufacturer wants to announce a new widget, and not discus it, then they could lock a thread to any replies after the first post

    But if they value feedback , then they need to accept the positive and negative

    #62 3 years ago
    Quoted from chrisjens2:

    Then you don't have to use the option, I for one would use it and I would appreciate my right to do so

    If I look at your threads do I see everything or are the people you have censored, removed for me as well? If its just your ignore than have it, has no effect on me.

    #63 3 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    If I look at your threads do I see everything or are the people you have censored, removed for me as well? If its just your ignore than have it, has no effect on me.

    They would be removed from posting at all. This comes into play in the "For Sale" threads especially. I'm not talking about someone who doesn't like this, or that. I'm talking about someone who has some personal issue with the op and takes a huge dump on the thread just because they can. What good does that accomplish? It's along the same lines as cyber bullying and if there were an option to eliminate it altogether I would use that option. Feel free not to utilize the tool if you disagree but don't dismiss it altogether. You might not want the option but others will and it's a win win for some of us.

    #64 3 years ago
    Quoted from chrisjens2:

    You might not want the option but others will and it's a win win for some of us.

    For some yes, but for just as many others they will misuse it, just like the people attacking their threads; maybe even more.

    #65 3 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    My brother came up with the exact same solution this morning A simple button, with a troll icon, on each post to allow all of Pinside to help identify troll bait posts. Like one-click abuse report filing. But will it work? Won't people simply go and over-use it on every post? It would need some kind of limit.

    This is ripe for abuse. Trolls gather, and they would gather up and be clicking that button on people they like. Alex from JJP (currently deactivated) would be clicked on endlessly in every post as trolls tried to get him to be marked as a troll. This is the problem with a free voting system like that, even trolls gets a vote. I know I'm taking it to the extreme.

    #66 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    For some yes, but for just as many others they will misuse it, just like the people attacking their threads; maybe even more.

    How is it misused? The people prevented from posting are already on the ignore list. I'm not saying you can pick and choose who posts on your thread.....

    #67 3 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    This is ripe for abuse. Trolls gather, and they would gather up and be clicking that button on people they like. Alex from JJP (currently deactivated) would be clicked on endlessly in every post as trolls tried to get him to be marked as a troll. This is the problem with a free voting system like that, even trolls gets a vote. I know I'm taking it to the extreme.

    Yes, but if all it did was alert the moderators, where's the harm? It would actually serve as a mark against the voter if false.

    A troll button is really just an easier alternative to reporting a forum violation.

    #68 3 years ago

    I don't know why one poster would have the right to remove another person from a thread. This makes no sense to me, if a representative of Pinside wants to, they have that right its their forum. No one else should be able to censor someone else from me. Private threads where you get to pick and choose who can partake? What kind of community is that, it completely seems like a you can ban and block anyone you disagree with. For sale thread I'll just block everyone that says my price is to high. This is totally how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    #69 3 years ago
    Quoted from chrisjens2:

    How is it misused? The people prevented from posting are already on the ignore list. I'm not saying you can pick and choose who posts on your thread.....

    Wait, but it could be the same thing. The "ignore list" is people you are ignoring, meaning the people you ignore cannot post in the thread, so really you are choosing whom can post in your threads or not right?
    Or am I missing something?

    EDIT: I read what you posted before and I guess you don't see it that way so we probably won't agree here. It is a lot of power. It could starts cliques of people, whom can only post in each others threads.

    EDIT2: I think the problem is assuming people are only going to use this to keep out 1 or 2 known bad apples that constantly derail threads...I don't thin kit would be used that way only.

    #70 3 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Wait, but it could be the same thing. The "ignore list" is people you are ignoring, meaning the people you ignore cannot post in the thread, so really you are choosing whom can post in your threads or not right?
    Or am I missing something?
    EDIT: I read what you posted before and I guess you don't see it that way so we probably won't agree here. It is a lot of power. It could starts cliques of people, whom can only post in each others threads.

    I get what you are saying, I do. What I'm talking about is if someone has already had an issue with someone else and it has risen to the point of an ignore option already utilized.
    I'm not saying "I don't like what this guy said so I'm going to block him" type scenario. What I'm suggesting is that "a furtherance of negative banter be prevented by the option of an ignored user prevention of posting feature." They are already ignored by you and now can't post in your thread to ruin it.....
    Just an option, a check box when posting a new thread

    #71 3 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    I don't know why one poster would have the right to remove another person from a thread. This makes no sense to me, if a representative of Pinside wants to, they have that right its their forum. No one else should be able to censor someone else from me. Private threads where you get to pick and choose who can partake? What kind of community is that, it completely seems like a you can ban and block anyone you disagree with. For sale thread I'll just block everyone that says my price is to high. This is totally how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    not everything is a slippery slope. It's a fallacy to assume a policy will end up being expanded to its absolute logical extreme. I don't think people should be able to ban others from their threads just because they don't like them (it should be up to moderators to delineate what constitutes abuse and stuff like that), but I also think if we want folks who represent Stern, PPS, JJP, etc to post here (and I think most agree that we do) then experience has unfortunately proven that we need to give them a way to weed out distractions.

    Quoted from Jvspin:

    Yes, but if all it did was alert the moderators, where's the harm? It would actually serve as a mark against the voter if false.
    A troll button is really just an easier alternative to reporting a forum violation.

    But we already have a forum violation button. It covers trolling plus other stuff such as spam, porn, etc. I don't see the added value, unless you think making it one click instead of two will make it more effective.

    #72 3 years ago

    It just seems so completely backwards to me, businesses have to focus and adapt to their consumers. If they want to take advantage of Pinside then they have that option. They should come post and answer questions. A company that would only be willing to partake if they can censor specific people from responding is not one that I would trust. It just looks so shady. It's 2016 get your PR/Social Media person to do their job.

    #73 3 years ago
    Quoted from chrisjens2:

    I get what you are saying, I do.

    Yep, and I see where you're coming from as well. I think it could work great but only in a small amount of cases, which I think implementing a big rule is overkill.
    Agree to disagree

    #74 3 years ago

    I am for anything that brings Stern / JJP employees here to interact with.

    I think existing rules (thread ban for trolls) could have been enforced before it got too out of hand but I don't know why the rules are not being enforced even handedly.

    An "official" update thread (one per game) I think would be a good alternative

    So JJP WOZ thread where JJP can moderate and another for TH.. but then users can create thier own threads in the JJP category if they have issues with those games or JJP in general.

    #75 3 years ago

    What about an outlane of replies within a thread and a button to view the outlane? A manufacturer/op manages an official-thread and can outlane unwieldily replies to a side conversation within the same thread. (one click away, basically, so a little different than basement)

    If the manufacturer is dishonest or hiding something, the outlane would show that but at least they get a little control. It's likely the side conversation of the outlane would still drive them away, honestly but at least it would provide clean and concise official / update threads without the noise.

    Quoted from chrisjens2:

    ... This comes into play in the "For Sale" threads especially. I'm not talking about someone who doesn't like this, or that. I'm talking about someone who has some personal issue with the op and takes a huge dump on the thread just because they can. What good does that accomplish? It's along the same lines as cyber bullying and if there were an option to eliminate it altogether I would use that option. Feel free not to utilize the tool if you disagree but don't dismiss it altogether. You might not want the option but others will and it's a win win for some of us.

    ..treating a for-sale thread (which granted was optional to create in the first place) like an official thread: giving the op a little control doesn't seem like the worst idea ever to me. Again, a buyer could check the outlane to see if the op is burying details maliciously.

    If a person wants to dump on someone's for sale thread, they can start their own "101 reasons why buying John's $5 AFM is a bad idea" thread and get their defamation of character on in their own thread.

    #76 3 years ago
    Quoted from Darscot:

    It just seems so completely backwards to me, businesses have to focus and adapt to their consumers. If they want to take advantage of Pinside then they have that option. They should come post and answer questions. A company that would only be willing to partake if they can censor specific people from responding is not one that I would trust. It just looks so shady. It's 2016 get your PR/Social Media person to do their job.

    Even Stern doesn't have a full time social media guy, Jared is just a part time contractor. Every single other pinball company in the world of any kind and flavor is smaller than Stern, you think they have a full time social media person? There is no one who's going to just hang out in a forum all day dealing with keeping things on topic. Assuming they can even answer your questions in the first place, since the whole point is to have access to the people building games.

    So sure, I get your point. But you know what? There are people with agendas who aren't there to be genuine. They want to stir up shit. And frankly it's just not worth the headache.

    So you can stand on principle. Or you can watch as less and and less pinball companies have any interest in maintaining a presence here. Stern already cut Jared's balls off, he couldn't work for them and be a normal poster, so he bailed. Looks like Keith and Alex had enough, they're out, at least for now. Rick retreated to his own forum for updates because he got tired of dealing with trolls.

    Are those guys all saints? Hell no. But the fact remains that they represent companies that people here are interested in, and the climate is such that they're finding it not worth the time and effort.

    So yay, they adapted by leaving.

    I feel less inclined to post updates on Alien myself. It's just incredibly time consuming to make sure things aren't derailed. Easier to just not bother. And I'm not even a Heighway employee. And it's not people saying that they don't like something I did. Big deal. It's the nasty personal shit people pile on top of it. Who the hell needs that?

    #77 3 years ago

    The outline seems far more reasonable but I would prefer you must choose to enable the outlane and just leave the thread unfiltered by default. In the end your just back to ignore though or basically have added a recommend ignore. Hardly seems worth the time to implement.

    #78 3 years ago
    Quoted from Aurich:

    Even Stern doesn't have a full time social media guy, Jared is just a part time contractor. Every single other pinball company in the world of any kind and flavor is smaller than Stern, you think they have a full time social media person? There is no one who's going to just hang out in a forum all day dealing with keeping things on topic.
    So sure, I get your point. But you know what? There are people with agendas who aren't there to be genuine. They want to stir up shit. And frankly it's just not worth the headache.
    So you can stand on principle. Or you can watch as less and and less pinball companies have any interest in maintaining a presence here. Stern already cut Jared's balls off, he couldn't work for them and be a normal poster, so he bailed. Looks like Keith and Alex had enough, they're out, at least for now. Rick retreated to his own forum for updates because he got tired of dealing with trolls.
    Are those guys all saints? Hell no. But the fact remains that they represent companies that people here are interested in, and the climate is such that they're finding it not worth the time and effort.
    So yay, they adapted by leaving.

    Very few companies ever speak on any public forum, changing this forum will not change that. More than likely someone told them its bad practice so they stopped. The issue is not specific to pinside, it's just the way companies control information.

    #79 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    I disagree. If you come on this forum to take money from people, then you sure as hell should respond to anybody that has problem with it instead of waiting for the issue to just get forgotten. Just my opinion of course

    Maybe our difference is this: I don't believe Pinside is a good mechanism for direct technical support, complaints, or even suggestions for product vendors. Pinside is great for discussion, announcements, speculation, general knowledge sharing including community resolution of technical issues, but one-off issues are better dealt with directly with that vendor directly via phone and/or email. Vendors won't forget something if you're calling them on the phone and sending emails to their inbox, but posting a complaint in a forum which receives thousands of messages a day is unlikely to even be found by a vendor, who is typically busy dealing with customers directly. It's just not what Pinside is for, even if the vendor actively sells here.

    #80 3 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    Vendors won't forget something if you're calling them on the phone and sending emails to their inbox, but posting a complaint in a forum which receives thousands of messages a day is unlikely to even be found by a vendor, who is typically busy dealing with customers directly. It's just not what Pinside is for, even if the vendor actively sells here.

    typically the post gets up after they have had no resolution from the mfg. or they are taking a long time to fix and not really caring about it. Now if this is happening and i am interested in buying a machine i would like to hear all the bad stuff that anyone has to say about it. I mean dont believe everyone but if they have pictures of a defect and a mfg wont help then it should be aired publically so that everyone else can make an informed decision.

    #83 3 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    Vendors won't forget something if you're calling them on the phone and sending emails to their inbox, but posting a complaint in a forum which receives thousands of messages a day is unlikely to even be found by a vendor

    One sure jumped on here fast when a machine was damaged during shipping. And was quick to say file a claim against them. But is nowhere to be found with QC issues. And then sends threatening messages to those that call him out.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you use this site to make a profit, then use it to make things right instead of stringing people along until they are pulling their hair out. Or don't come here at all. Good riddance.

    #84 3 years ago

    A feature like boardgamegeek.com's 'X' function might be useful, which acts more-or-less like community moderation, but this forum might not have the right format/community for that to work. It'd probably be useful for robin to get together with other hobby's biggest fora and trade best practices: boardgames, knitting, pinball, dirt bikes, whatever. The forum is the same either way, no?

    #85 3 years ago

    I'm not gonna react to all the the posts at this point, but would like to thank everyone in this thread for the cool brainstorm. Plenty of good ideas, now I will throw them all in the mixer and hopefully I can create a nice blend of them. Already coding some of these ideas into "experimental" features. More soon!

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 19.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 6.50
    Hardware
    Pinball Haus
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 29.95
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    $ 24.00
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 156.50
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lermods
    $ 249.99
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    Great American Pinball
    $ 28.25
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    From: $ 19.99
    $ 74.00
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    Id Rather Play Pinball
    $ 45.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 149.95
    Boards
    Allteksystems
    $ 229.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 2.50
    Playfield - Decals
    Doc's Pinball Shop
    $ 6,450.00
    Pinball Machine
    Nitro Pinball Shop
    $ 269.00
    Cabinet - Other
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    $ 14.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 220.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    CzTV Mods
    $ 70.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinWorlds
    From: $ 19.50
    Apparel - Unisex
    ArcadeMade
    There are 85 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside