Bowler No Frame No Player

United puck bowler not counting frames or changing players. Machine starts, score reels reset, Player count adds correct number of players, frame count shows 1. Slide the puck, 1st player scores show correctly. Game does not go to player two after player one has completed it's frame. Can manually move to player two, but when player two frame is completed, machine stays at player two frame one. Would this be a problem relatrd to the frame control unit, and where should I begin? Thanks

#2 5 years ago

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Kickout

Pinside member

No Puck Bowler experiece out here?

#3 5 years ago

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currieddog

Pinside member

I'm guessing frame/player units. Do you have a schematic?

#4 5 years ago

C M

CadillacMusic

Inactive member

Cleveland, OH

12y 48,650 1,035 44

Step 1: Clean the hell out of everything. Use 3-in-1 oil or equivalent, and make those contacts shine.

#5 5 years ago

CRD

chad

Game Guy

11y 140K 15,206 9 4

Quoted from CadillacMusic:
Step 1: Clean the hell out of everything. Use 3-in-1 oil or equivalent, and make those contacts shine.

Remove all old grease from the stepper units.

#6 5 years ago

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currieddog

Pinside member

Quoted from CadillacMusic:
Step 1: Clean the hell out of everything. Use 3-in-1 oil or equivalent, and make those contacts shine.

Do not do this unless you want to create new problems.

Check Clay's advice on steppers: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

#7 5 years ago

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Kickout

Pinside member

I cleaned and lubed all of the stepper units per PinBall Repair. I never use oil always Teflon Lube Gel.

#8 5 years ago

C M

CadillacMusic

Inactive member

Cleveland, OH

12y 48,650 1,035 44

Quoted from currieddog:
Do not do this unless you want to create new problems.
Check Clay's advice on steppers: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index2.htm#steps

Huh? We run like a dozen EM bowlers, and that's usually what's wrong when there's a problem that's not the stupid ball lift chain. In fact, I think there's only one EM I've ever dealt with that the problem wasn't from dirty connections. As long as you're careful, it helps make them dependably solid.

Post last edited 5 years ago: “Connections, not connectors.”

#9 5 years ago

???

currieddog

Pinside member

Quoted from CadillacMusic:
We run like a dozen EM bowlers, and that's usually what's wrong when there's a problem that's not the stupid ball lift chain.

I just know from experience that getting into everything really ups the chances of creating more problems. Better to go through things one at a time and work from there.

#10 5 years ago

C M

CadillacMusic

Inactive member

Cleveland, OH

12y 48,650 1,035 44

Fair enough. I didn't mean the whole machine, of course. I meant the related steppers. But I wasn't the clearest.

#11 5 years ago

???

Kickout

Pinside member

Quoted from currieddog:
I'm guessing frame/player units. Do you have a schematic?

Yes, I have the schematics. Been working from them.

#12 5 years ago

???

currieddog

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from Kickout:
Yes, I have the schematics. Been working from them.

Can you scan and post relevant parts?

2 weeks later

#13 5 years ago

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Kickout

Pinside member

Sorry it took so long, I've been working on this by myself trying to read and understand the schematics. Here is what the game is doing.
1 Turns on
2 Drop a coin
3 Coin RE does not energize.
If I am reading the schematic correctly starting at D 13, I should have a complete circuit through the Slam Tilt SW, Drop Chute closes when coin is dropped, to "B" side of Credit Jack, to "B" side of Coin Chute ADJ Jack, to Coin Re, to closed M/B Start Re, to 2 Play Re, to Black.

If this is true then at C 8 the Coin Re should close, Coin Meter advances (this does), Start Re should trip through Frame Control Disc. Start Re does not trip.

I've checked continuity but when I get to the Frame Control Disc, I seem to lose continuity. I hope this makes sense. Am I looking at the path correctly?

Cherokee Scan 1.pdf

Scan0006.pdf

#14 5 years ago

HDF

HD_Fatboy

Pinside member

Wilcox, PA

6y 36,550 531 4

Are you saying, that now the machine does not start and the score reels all reset to zero as in your very first post?

What all have you done so fay?

#15 5 years ago

???

Kickout

Pinside member

Since the first post, I went back after a few days and tried starting a game. Here what happened, drop a coin, push start button, can hear the Coin Meter change counts that is it. The Score Re are not resetting. It appears that the Start Re does not trip.

I checked continuity from the yellow wire on the Slam Tilt Re through the path to the Coin Re as shown on the first schematic above. Everything was good, I then did continuity check on the Start Re through the Coin Meter and Frame Control Disc. This is where I think the problem is the Start Re does not trip. If I manually trip the Start Re the Relay Bank Coil trips, resting the score reels, Player 1 and Frame 1 come up. From there no pins retrack when the puck is thrown.

Going to check continuity on the 3rd Pos Re next to see it that is working.

#16 5 years ago

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Kickout

Pinside member

Bump

#17 5 years ago

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Kickout

Pinside member

Progress now have the pins retracking as they should. Problem was a broken wire on Game Over switch 30B. Now that that is fixed, I am still not getting the Frame or Player Counts to work. Help please.

#18 5 years ago

???

Mopar

Pinside+ Member

Unknown

7y 80,050 4,181

Because the portion of the schematic shows the "Frame Drum Step up", I take it that your machine is
a late 50s/early 60s machine, but what is needed is the portion of the schematic showing the "Player Up
Step Up", but anyways, you can try checking for dirty or mis-adjusted contacts in the "Player Reset Relay",
and then the circuitry also would go through a set of contacts that run off of the score motor cam, or
possibly through the score motor wiper board, but I'm pretty sure off of the cam, but I don't know what
set that would be. Perhaps there's labels near the Score Motor showing what switches do what..

#19 5 years ago

???

Kickout

Pinside member

Mopar.

Quoted from Mopar:
Because the portion of the schematic shows the "Frame Drum Step up", I take it that your machine is
a late 50s/early 60s machine

It is a 1977 Williams Cherokee Shuffle Alley

Quoted from Mopar:
what is needed is the portion of the schematic showing the "Player Up
Step Up"

Is this the snipet you were talking about?

Quoted from Mopar:
you can try checking for dirty or mis-adjusted contacts in the "Player Reset Relay",

I will check these.

Cherokee Section 10 7 11.pdf

Scan0005.pdf

#20 5 years ago

???

Kickout

Pinside member