Bowen Kerins now a "Suppressed Player" on IFPA?

(Topic ID: 203726)

Bowen Kerins now a "Suppressed Player" on IFPA?


By dyopp21

8 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 307 posts
  • 78 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by Xerico
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 9 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    system-failure-640x353 (resized).jpg
    rounders (resized).jpg
    Tommy Pinball Cross (resized).JPG
    serenity (resized).jpg
    bbhjosh (resized).jpg
    Howard Stern (resized).jpg
    Untitled (resized).jpg
    943A8F75-28A3-4140-8EEE-971AEF83B4C2 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_8755 (resized).JPG

    This topic is closed.

    There are 307 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.
    #251 8 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Is it really hard to say, if you want to count for IFPA then pay a buck. IF you don't care about IFPA then it is $1 less to participate?
    Seems really simple to provide players the choice and seems like the best thing to if you are running IFPA events and want to bring in new people. hive them the option and they may come back nex time and pay the buck???

    Are you giving them the option at your tourneys?

    #252 8 months ago

    Every tournament I've ever played in, I've paid. Organizers can take a dollar from that and pay IFPA. Boom!

    #253 8 months ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    I don't know that it is they have lost interest so much as they are becoming two separate player bases that each look for something different.
    I mean, not to toot my own horn, but the MGC by player count has been a top ten tournament countrywide for years now, but we have never been about trying to attract the top players. We worked directly with the IFPA to help develop ways to make it so that new players could just have a blast playing. It didn't help that PAPA was on our dates for many years, or that we lost the ability to give any prizes, but neither of those affected our attendance.
    A lot of tournament formats were based directly around maximizing IFPA points which has made what you can do with those formats more and more limiting, because a lot of places worked their formats to ensure they would be worth the absolute most points instead of ensuring they were super fun first. I think in those groups where the question was asked of the dollar, a lot of players took it not as just a dollar, but the choice between more relaxed, casual play and more serious play. Before, that choice wasn't really acknowledged. Now it is, and that has changed the dynamic for some players.
    There is nothing that turns me off more than a good player complaining that they aren't getting enough for something I have been just having fun doing, and I think the places that allowed that vote have exposed that rift a bit.

    Well, and here's the thing... More of this stuff should happen! I personally have little to no interest in playing in "traditional" tournaments, which are the ones now that qualify for the IFPA points. I don't want to spent six hours playing I'd rather play for an hour. I will fully admit that those methods don't prove my skills as much, but I'm not so concerned about that.
    There is an underserved market of people like that. Different formats can and should be introduced to try to better serve that market without the IFPA points.
    If everything works out, what actually happens is you have a bunch of casual, fun, public tournaments that serve as the gateway to the more serious IFPA tournaments. In that case, the playing group divides and does both smaller this year, and then they both grow in the future, which is what I honestly think will happen.
    We just need to get over the initial rift and for that I simply say players, give both sides a shot. Don't write off tournaments that don't do IFPA points as worthless and see if they are fun enough to be worth your money anyway. And don't write off IFPA tournaments as worthless until you play in them and see what it's like. They will probably become more serious with less of them, which should ratchet up what certain people really love about them. If they do, everyone wins.

    well said Dan.

    #254 8 months ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    Are you giving them the option at your tourneys?

    no, but my tourneys wont have the ability to do IFPA, since I wont be registering them with the site, submitting any data, or paying any fees.

    I will also be runnin formats that dont meet the requirments of IFPA sanctioning (split flipper and team based play for example)

    The inverse is different for anyone actually submitting to IFPA. If you have already registered, are runnning an event that meets IFPA requirements and are submitting results, then it takes no effort to allow a player to play in your event and just remove their name form the final results before submitting.

    IF I ever run IFPA events in the future I will not force anyone to pay the buck or have their name submitted to IFPA. No different than it has always been. Amazingly we have had some people request to not have their name submitted previously and we have honored that. They are still allowed to play. There is no negative impact of letting them do so.

    -1
    #255 8 months ago

    Hi Everyone!

    Time to bring this topic back on topic.

    If you want to discuss the IFPA 2018 Rules changes, please move it to the IFPA thread.

    This thread topic is Bowen's decision to suppress himself from the IFPA ranking system.

    I'm closing this thread for 30 minutes. After which, I will unlock the thread and allow conversation to continue.

    This way, anyone that is posting off topic would have plenty of notice and not be surprised by a moderation.

    Thanks.

    Marcus

    #256 8 months ago

    Thread is now re-opened.

    Please keep all future posts on topic.

    Thanks.

    Marcus

    #257 8 months ago

    Are players allowed to be supressed and then later request to be unsupressed?

    I assume a supressed player still counts towards the value of an event? (i.e. .5 base value) Is this the case?

    If Bowen asked to be unsupressed as of today, woudl he come back in with all those results fomr the past 8 months active in his cue and showing his accurate WPPR, or do those not exist for him?

    #258 8 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Are players allowed to be supressed and then later request to be unsupressed?
    I assume a supressed player still counts towards the value of an event? (i.e. .5 base value) Is this the case?
    If Bowen asked to be unsupressed as of today, woudl he come back in with all those results fomr the past 8 months active in his cue and showing his accurate WPPR, or do those not exist for him?

    "suppressed" implies to me that the results are still recorded, they're just not included in current calculations for rankings and such. therefore (and this is just my assumption) it seems to me he could be un-supressed and his historical numbers would show up. i have spent exactly 10 seconds thinking about it, though, so why am i even posting?

    #259 8 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Are players allowed to be supressed and then later request to be unsupressed?

    Yes. Players can turn themselves on and off at their leisure, for whatever reasons they prefer. I once had a player turn themselves off because their boss saw the results on their profile that included a date that player was "sick from work". Once I rebuilt the rankings with them suppressed, their boss couldn't prove anything to get them in trouble.

    A player that is suppressed for any portion of the current year forfeits their rights to any IFPA related "perks" for the following year. Taking Bowen for example, by suppressing himself in 2017 he has disqualified himself from qualifying in any SCS, the IFPA WC, Stern Rewards Program. In 2018 this will also include the Stern Pro Circuit as one of the IFPA "perks". Suppressed players can of course participate in the individual SPC events, but they won't be tracked in the SPC standings and won't be able to qualify for the SPC Final.

    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I assume a supressed player still counts towards the value of an event? (i.e. .5 base value) Is this the case?

    Yes. The player still exists in all the calculations we do on the backend. Once we go to "display" the results publicly to the website, the names are removed for those players that are suppressed. Taking the Bowen example, he still adds .5 base value points as well as his high level of 'ranking' and 'rating' value add to the WPPR pot in any event he plays in.

    Quoted from Whysnow:

    If Bowen asked to be unsupressed as of today, woudl he come back in with all those results fomr the past 8 months active in his cue and showing his accurate WPPR, or do those not exist for him?

    Everything exists for Bowen in our system. The only thing we don't do is display his stats publicly linked to his name. If he ever requests to be turned back on, all that activity will exist as if he never suppressed himself at all.

    #260 8 months ago

    For those with minor detective skills, if you knew every event that Bowen played in, you could sleuth your way into knowing exactly where he would be today.

    Here are the results from PAPA A:
    https://www.ifpapinball.com/tournaments/view.php?t=18407

    We all know he finished in 2nd place, so as of that date entering the tournament he was ranked 13th in the world and had an IFPA Rating of 1771.43.

    He earned 118.52 WPPR's for that event. The only way to know where that boosted him is to know the next tournament played in after PAPA 20 (which I don't). That will list his WPPR rank going into that next event, and so on and so on.

    #261 8 months ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    Yes. Players can turn themselves on and off at their leisure, for whatever reasons they prefer. I once had a player turn themselves off because their boss saw the results on their profile that included a date that player was "sick from work". Once I rebuilt the rankings with them suppressed, their boss couldn't prove anything to get them in trouble.
    A player that is suppressed for any portion of the current year forfeits their rights to any IFPA related "perks" for the following year. Taking Bowen for example, by suppressing himself in 2017 he has disqualified himself from qualifying in any SCS, the IFPA WC, Stern Rewards Program. In 2018 this will also include the Stern Pro Circuit as one of the IFPA "perks". Suppressed players can of course participate in the individual SPC events, but they won't be tracked in the SPC standings and won't be able to qualify for the SPC Final.

    Yes. The player still exists in all the calculations we do on the backend. Once we go to "display" the results publicly to the website, the names are removed for those players that are suppressed. Taking the Bowen example, he still adds .5 base value points as well as his high level of 'ranking' and 'rating' value add to the WPPR pot in any event he plays in.

    Everything exists for Bowen in our system. The only thing we don't do is display his stats publicly linked to his name. If he ever requests to be turned back on, all that activity will exist as if he never suppressed himself at all.

    That's great info to know. My buddy was asking me what the repercussions were for suppressing yourself and I did not know the answer.

    #262 8 months ago

    It will be interesting to see if Bowen has any results submitted in 2018 thus supporting the new IFPA changes.

    #263 8 months ago

    Could Bowen suppress himself, kick ass in several tourneys, and then unsuppress, revealing him as #1 in the world?? Kinda like creeping through the ranks like a pinball Ninja and then BAM!
    *Asking for a friend*

    #264 8 months ago
    Quoted from TKDalumni:

    Could Bowen suppress himself, kick ass in several tourneys, and then unsuppress, revealing him as #1 in the world?? Kinda like creeping through the ranks like a pinball Ninja and then BAM!
    *Asking for a friend*

    that would be AMAZING!!!

    #265 8 months ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    by suppressing himself in 2017 he has disqualified himself from qualifying in any SCS

    just to be clear on this. Supressing for 2017 means he can not pop in and play in the Jan 20, 2018 SCS.

    He could unsupress as of Jan 1 2018, and then qualify and play in the SCS held in Jan of 2019.

    correct?

    #266 8 months ago

    also, if you supress then I assume no restrictions using WPPR position can be known/applicable?

    In other words, if a top 100 player supresses themself and has not other restrictions then they would be able to play in any division of PAPA/Pinburgh?

    asking for a friend

    #267 8 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    just to be clear on this. Supressing for 2017 means he can not pop in and play in the Jan 20, 2018 SCS.
    He could unsupress as of Jan 1 2018, and then qualify and play in the SCS held in Jan of 2019.
    correct?

    Correct. Even if unsuppressed TODAY, he's already ineligible to play in SCS on 1/20/18. He forfeited his rights to the "2017 season".

    He has until 11:59pm on 12/31/17 to make himself eligible for the "2018 season" with the finals held in Jan 2019.

    #268 8 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    also, if you supress then I assume no restrictions using WPPR position can be known/applicable?
    In other words, if a top 100 player supresses themself and has not other restrictions then they would be able to play in any division of PAPA/Pinburgh?

    We can dig into our backend for any TD's that need to know information regarding a suppressed player.

    I've also heard of TD's using the rule that any players suppressed from IFPA are presumed to be of the highest restriction, which is also fine.

    #269 8 months ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    I've also heard of TD's using the rule that any players suppressed from IFPA are presumed to be of the highest restriction, which is also fine.

    ouch, that would hurt

    #270 8 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    ouch, that would hurt

    But you’d gain a lot of Pinside’s respect ...

    #271 8 months ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    But you’d gain a lot of Pinside’s respect ...

    I am not planning to supress myself, but I alreayd have my own respect (still isnt worth much)

    #272 8 months ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    No.
    There is a long explanation I'd be happy to explain in email, but I don't want to relitigate it here where armchair quarterbacks like to call me a drama queen for knowing the local laws. I'm good with the state people that I know who work in enforcement giving me the answers.
    There is no legal way with the change this year for us to run an IFPA tournament, and based on the actual contracts I signed, it could put me in jeopardy a few different ways. Josh and I spoke about my unique situation on the phone at length, and there is no way around it.
    Again, I hold nothing against the IFPA and don't think the change is terrible, I'm just in a unique situation. As the birthplace of the modern IFPA, it is going to be disappointing to not be able to host an IFPA event this year.
    Having said all that above, it's going to allow us to make some format tweaks to make our tournaments run in fun ways that are no longer IFPA compliant. Like a return to the original Clock Chaos format is being discussed. It was drastically changed to comply with IFPA rules a few years ago. Pingolf has a tweak planned we think will make it even more competitive, but would disqualify it entirely as an IFPA event.
    And again, that's what I suggest for other tournaments to think about doing. There are competitive options out there that may appeal to new players more in particular that wouldn't apply for many or any IFPA points in the old method. These formats may draw in local players just by the fact they are different, and then everyone wins.
    Its the best solution we could come up with.

    No problem Dan. Just thought I could help if there was a way. I trust in your best judgement.

    #273 8 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Tom, you could likely run an under the tabel IFPA event at MGC (without Dans knowledge )
    Just post it up and organize it and I bet all the competitive people sign up to play.
    I thought about doing it this year before the change to IFPA was announced.
    You could pick 12 games spread around the convention center, talk with the owners in advance to get their OK, and then run a selfie event. Players are allowed unlimited play for all day saturday and they take photos of high scores (probably need a rule that you can only play 1x on a game before going to play a different game and this could be verified by time stamps on photos submitted to a special set up FB page) to turn in by 8pm. Compile all the socres using never drains software (heck, make each registered player and admin and require self entry fo scores by 8p to count; other players will police each other for honesty and socre entry accuracy). Run your playoffs on Sunday
    Could be a way to get around it all and still have a tournament at MGC. I mean if Dan and MGC are not affiliated with it (and dont know about it ) then it could all happen.
    Hide and go seek selfie tourney...

    I know that could be done but I would never do something like that without Dan’s knowledge. I respect Dan to much for him to put up with any BS.

    #274 8 months ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    No problem Dan. Just thought I could help if there was a way. I trust in your best judgement.

    I would gladly offer to sponsor the $1 fee for the MGC out of my own pocket for the importance that event has been in the history of the 'new' IFPA as Dan mentioned. Dan knows this, and I'm well aware that his issues go far beyond who actually pays the fee, sponsored or not.

    #275 8 months ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    I know that could be done but I would never do something like that without Dan’s knowledge. I respect Dan to much for him to put up with any BS.

    I was sayin that Dan wound not "know" so he/MGC would be safe... if you know what I am sayin

    to stay on topic...
    thanks for the details on Supression Josh.

    #276 8 months ago

    Off topic

    #277 8 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I was sayin that Dan wound not "know" so he/MGC would be safe... if you know what I am sayin
    to stay on topic...
    thanks for the details on Supression Josh.

    I know what your saying but still won’t do it.

    #278 8 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I was sayin that Dan wound not "know" so he/MGC would be safe... if you know what I am sayin

    Dan is still responsible for what goes on at his show. Ask him. He'd be pretty far from safe.

    LTG : )

    #279 8 months ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    We can dig into our backend

    Ouch!

    rd

    #280 8 months ago

    Knuckles deep bro

    #281 8 months ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    Knuckles deep bro

    Elbow deep inside the borderline

    #282 8 months ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    Knuckles deep bro

    Ooooooofff!!

    rd

    #283 8 months ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    But I'm a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist that hosted the relaunch of the IFPA in 2006 at the Midwest Gaming Classic, and who worked for hours directly with the IFPA on creating a more open system

    Life before the IFPA... it was real. Tournaments before the IFPA... it was real. The biggest events.. are still the biggest events... before the IFPA. Where is this collusion you insist that was happening to make some events happen and others not?

    Could it be... friends decide where they want to go or not? That's not a 'good old boys club' or collusion - that is you needing to attract players to your event.

    Quoted from goatdan:

    First projected from above pinball machine? That was us! (Although we only did it once!) Multiple format changes and tweaks to encourage new players? That was us too! Both developed with the IFPA directly!
    But since I'm from Wisconsin, I must not know what I'm talking about! I like drama!

    Wow.. I never realized competitive pinball didn't exist before you stepped in and saved us from the Dark Ages. I guess all those years before IFPA and the evolution championed by people like Kevin Martin were just figments of my imagination?

    Quoted from goatdan:

    Those players would make commitments to certain tournaments. Now, you can say something like clearly those were the best, but there was no specific way to determine what caused a tournament to be great, it was mostly just the top players would decide where they were going.
    This led to some difficult things to overcome. Like, why, other than money, would a player bother coming to a different tournament if they knew those top players weren't going to be there?

    Things like... the way it's ran... the titles on hand... the location... the quality of the games... costs... where friends may be... where friends may be going.. the show... vending... who might be there industry wise.... tradition... lots of reasons. Truth is, we all know SHOWS, not tournaments, drove visiting patterns until recent times. Expo and PAPA were the pretty much the only events that had national draws specifically around competition. Everything else was regional with a sprinkling of the folks committed enough to travel for their hobby.

    Quoted from goatdan:

    For players trying to get in and score points, you had to know who the top players were, and which tournaments they would be in ahead of time if you wanted your ranking to be worth much. Larger tournaments (MGC 2009 for instance was bigger than CalEx 2009 by player count) might be worth significantly less points than smaller ones. It was difficult to have any idea how this would go unless you were one of the players going to these places.

    Now you are talking about WPRR whoring and how early in IFPA time it was so fluid how events were graded. Certainly in the early days this was very much an 'evolution' -- but that only mattered to a handful of people and was nothing like what you said with:

    "group of players who worked to basically select the top players and the top tournaments to continually give themselves the best chance of winning. In the early days of the IFPA reboot, the IFPA was really a driving force on trying to change that as much as possible"

    It seems to me you've taken your struggles with how WPRRs were calculated over the years and extrapolated that into what makes tournaments or shows.. or 'top players' because you struggled to get the visibility or grade you wanted. Pffffttt

    It's obvious to everyone whose been around for a long time that competitive pinball is full of cliques and there is a lot of history between many of the people involved. That does not equate to manipulation of the competitive or show scene. The whoring that been popular hasn't even always come from the old guard... but from other regional pockets who try to maximize what they had. I'm sure Josh feels like they played Wack-a-mole far more than any thoughts about 'protecting people' or shows.

    Quoted from goatdan:

    If you think this is all a made up thing, and that there wasn't a ton of work put in to help smooth the system over the years, making it better so that new players could play in enough to make it worth their while, sure

    No, I just know time existed before the IFPA, and that WPRR whoring/manipulation is a topic like the Pinside Rankings -- it has impact largely only within itself.. and is not driving the larger landscape.

    WPRRs have evolved... but what made shows famous has had nothing to do with WPRRs. And with events like the PAPA Circuit, the low has been spread around... I see all those efforts as evolutions of the mandates both PAPA and IFPA started with... promote MORE pinball... not efforts to break up the 'good ol boys' and breakup their hold on the scene... *rolleyes*

    #284 8 months ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    There is an underserved market of people like that. Different formats can and should be introduced to try to better serve that market without the IFPA points.

    Exactly... which is why I don't understand why people think IFPA sanctioning is the be-all-end-all of the viability of an event... or people even mix in "im not running this event now..." in this conversation due to the IFPA requirements.

    If your players aren't the ones trying to qualify for a IFPA thing... and only saw rankings as a novelty... who cares about IFPA? Run your format, your event, however you want it. My biggest concern would be missing out on the IFPA calendar... but even that is under utilized now vs it's potential.

    Randoms who would be upset over paying a dollar to play in a local event aren't your traveling IFPA player base anyways. So don't do it... and run life as you always have.

    If you want recurring stats.... use the multitude of tools out there to make up your own fun stats about your location or player base.

    #285 8 months ago

    Something I don't understand is how suppressing oneself disqualifies for the whole year. If you suppressed yourself but then unsuppressed yourself during the season, why shouldn't you just take any points from your unsuppressed time and they count? If you don't qualify then fine, but I don't understand why suppressing oneself cancels all potential to change your mind in that year and not just be penalized for it. Just don't understand the rationale behind that though I could see not counting points from any suppressed playing time.

    #286 8 months ago
    Quoted from shimoda:

    Something I don't understand is how suppressing oneself disqualifies for the whole year. If you suppressed yourself but then unsuppressed yourself during the season, why shouldn't you just take any points from your unsuppressed time and they count? If you don't qualify then fine, but I don't understand why suppressing oneself cancels all potential to change your mind in that year and not just be penalized for it. Just don't understand the rationale behind that though I could see not counting points from any suppressed playing time.

    We don't have the functionality in place to mark a period of time where a player's results based on when they were suppressed would continue to be inactive on their profile once they do because active again in the system.

    The WPPR system is meant to be an accurate system with respect to the world ranking of players. Having a player pick a choose what events they want counted based on constantly suppressing/unsuppressing themselves makes our system less accurate based on the skill level they have proven through their actual play.

    It opens up exploits for players to sandbag certain events. If I want to play in C division at Pinburgh, I can get all the way up to that cut line, suppress myself, and then turn myself back on the day they lock in the restrictions for Pinburgh based on ranking.

    The other issue is that our standings are always "LIVE". If myself, Zach and Lyman chose to suppress ourselves right now, we would disappear from the Illinois SCS standings. Everyone would move up 3 spots. Those in 14th-16th place that think they were safe would be in for a rude awakening when Zach, Lyman and myself turn ourselves back on at the end of the year, pushing those players to 17th-19th and below the cutline. Our standings would be inaccurate for those following it to guide the level of their participation chasing the cut line.

    I prefer that the penalty for suppressing be super clean, super simple, and lean on the side of "too harsh" rather than "not harsh enough". We don't have to honor anyone's request to not be included in the system, but I'm happy to support those that feel the need to be removed. You just forfeit a bunch of perks as the consequence for doing so.

    #287 8 months ago
    Quoted from flynnibus:

    WPRRs have evolved... but what made shows famous has had nothing to do with WPRRs. And with events like the PAPA Circuit, the low has been spread around... I see all those efforts as evolutions of the mandates both PAPA and IFPA started with... promote MORE pinball... not efforts to break up the 'good ol boys' and breakup their hold on the scene... *rolleyes*

    I don't understand why you feel that saying this was a goal to move beyond is in some way some sort of weird personal attack but... cool? I mean, those who want to question if that was a thing...

    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    I would gladly offer to sponsor the $1 fee for the MGC out of my own pocket for the importance that event has been in the history of the 'new' IFPA as Dan mentioned. Dan knows this, and I'm well aware that his issues go far beyond who actually pays the fee, sponsored or not.

    Regardless, we're supposed to be on topic about the suppression thing, not how you have some sort of weird personal issue with me because I publicly identified the "good ol boys" network as one of the issues that the IFPA was working to overcome. At one point six years ago, people were even jokes about putting that on a shirt.

    You can say it doesn't exist all you want, but the perception is what matters, and the IFPA worked directly to counter that perception. This change risks making it look like it doesn't counter that perception, and that is where part of the strife comes from in my opinion. I've had direct conversations with Bowen about that perception long ago now, and I wonder if the rule change was part of what led to his suppression.

    I could point out direct ways that I think that the rest of your argument isn't what really was going on, but I can tell that it won't matter, and it's not exactly on topic for this particular thread anyway.

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Exactly... which is why I don't understand why people think IFPA sanctioning is the be-all-end-all of the viability of an event... or people even mix in "im not running this event now..." in this conversation due to the IFPA requirements.

    I think it was in the other thread that Josh mentioned that the communication of the change wasn't the best, and many TDs learned about the change via message boards and text messages, and so they responded there before fully knowing what was involved. It's mixed into this conversation because of the discussion of player suppression seeming to be the "other side" of the coin, and that re-jump starts things. It's a complex issue. Once the formats actually start and data starts appearing about how much this helps (or hinders) growth, it will just become normal and there will be less complaining about it. Well, at least until Josh announces the 2019 rule changes, whatever those will be...

    #288 8 months ago

    Thanks for the explanation Josh, it makes more sense in that way and certainly K.I.S.S. applies here for the sake of super clean.

    #289 8 months ago

    With any rules the playoffs should be under the rules for the year they qualified in and not part of any next year rule changes.

    #290 8 months ago

    Back to page one Bump!

    #291 8 months ago

    Some of this discussion is moving in a dangerously non-Bowen direction!!!

    #292 8 months ago

    Since I was the only one booted from the thread I just want to say.

    Bowen is Awesome!

    #293 8 months ago

    Too much moderation going on.

    #294 8 months ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Since I was the only one booted from the thread I just want to say.
    Bowen is Awesome!

    Lol!

    I agree bowen and tom are awesome.

    #295 8 months ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    I’ve got to call my mom and tell her I started something trendy! This is great day.

    I already told her last night.

    #296 8 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I already told her last night.

    Moderator. Moderator. This is offensive...

    #297 8 months ago

    Help help, I’m being suppressed
    Come see the violence inherent in the system!

    #298 8 months ago

    As promised- a how-to video (Sorry, off the suppression topic once again!):
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/yopp-yopps-overhead-pinball-projection-system-how-to-video

    #299 8 months ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    As previously mentioned, the $5 per player fee doesn't get us to numbers that we feel are significant for this initiative.

    i.e, this does not funnel enough money to us top players. They already said this is not about admin costs and solely about payouts, who benefits from that, the people making the rules.
    Thanks for taking a stand Bowen.

    #300 8 months ago
    Quoted from bangerjay:

    Help help, I’m being suppressed
    Come see the violence inherent in the system!

    Too bad Pinheads are too out of shape to kneel at the tournaments.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 18.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 19.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    Pinball Wheezer
    $ 27.95
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 15.00
    Electronics
    Third Coast Pinball
    From: $ 99.99
    $ 1,099.00
    From: $ 99.00
    Lighting - Under Cabinet
    Rock Custom Pinball
    $ 209.99
    $ 48.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 29.99
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 175.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Professor Pinball
    From: $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Flip N Out Pinball
    $ 40.00
    Lighting - Other
    Professor Pinball
    $ 208.87
    $ 7,199.00
    Pinball Machine
    Operation Pinball
    From: $ 99.99
    From: $ 179.99
    Lighting - Led
    Comet Pinball
    $ 229.99
    Lighting - Led
    PinballBulbs
    £ 49.00
    Lighting - Led
    PinballToys
    There are 307 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 7.

    This topic is closed.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside