(Topic ID: 203726)

Bowen Kerins now a "Suppressed Player" on IFPA?

By dyopp21

6 years ago


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    #151 6 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    TECHNICALLY there is an exploit within our participation rules that would allow you to 'rage suppress' and not be counted in that event.
    We require players to play in at least 50% of the qualifying requirements to be included in the results submitted to the IFPA. This percentage goes up if an event has more than 50 players (by 1% per player).
    Any event that has 100+ players, a player has to compete in 100% of the qualifying requirements to be included in the standings submitted to us.
    Pinburgh going south for you? Just rage quit after session #9, don't play in session #10, and the Pinburgh TD can't 'legally' include you in the results because you didn't play in 100% of the qualifying rounds.

    Ah yes! I think we saw this in play at the Sanctum 24-hour.

    #152 6 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    We started the idea of the NYC Pinball Championships (https://www.nycpinballchamps.com/ !) with the idea of "how awesome would it be to have our own big tournament in nYC?!" But it's quickly dawning on us that it's going to be a difficult enough undertaking even without playing. So there's a good chance I'll be doing it your way, out of reach of those tasty, thick WPPRs, but enjoying the show.

    Yeah...I really don't know how you run a big tourney and participate at the same time with something the size of a circuit event or convention. 20-30 players? Sure. I've run stuff like that and played, and even then I still had my wife helping me out a bit. There's also a bit of an ethical quandary IMO from TDs that play in their own large tournaments, for several reasons.

    #153 6 years ago
    Quoted from davijc02:

    I think it was just reading this thread and seeing how big of a deal $1 was that bothered me.

    And this is only one of a few threads crying aboot the dollar!

    #154 6 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    There's also a bit of an ethical quandary IMO from TDs that play in their own large tournaments, for several reasons.

    Like what? I like having a second TD to make calls where the primary TD is involved, but other than that what’s the issue?

    #155 6 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    Quick not public but soon to be public update. Other rules changes for the 2018 SCS season:
    1) Best 20 results within a state will count for each player (similar to the way the World Rankings are calculated).
    2) “Super States” expansion of the qualifying field will be in play. Any States that have a minimum of 400 unique players and 100 events held within that state during the calendar year will be eligible for that expanded 24 player final.
    I kind of love that this is on the Bowen is suppressed thread

    THANK YOU! Very happy to see both of those.

    #156 6 years ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    No it won't. I'm still not understanding why everyone thinks it will. New players show up because someone told them it's a good time, not because they saw on TV that if they beat the best player in the world that they will win $10,000.
    Some new players go on to want to be that person who can hang with the best, but a lot decide it's just a fun way to spend an evening with friends.

    Because the argument (unlike yours) isn't trying to paint every person the same.

    Some people will be drawn by this kind of exposure... some will not. But for sure, having two ways of drawing positive attention is better than one.

    #157 6 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    Like what? I like having a second TD to make calls where the primary TD is involved, but other than that what’s the issue?

    For me it's more about logistics. We are going to be moving dozens of games and that's just part of it. I wouldn't be running the tournament anyway so TD decisions wouldn't be the issue. All large tournaments should have a few people who can make decisions like that.

    #158 6 years ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    No it won't. I'm still not understanding why everyone thinks it will. New players show up because someone told them it's a good time, not because they saw on TV that if they beat the best player in the world that they will win $10,000.
    Some new players go on to want to be that person who can hang with the best, but a lot decide it's just a fun way to spend an evening with friends.

    Some new players will be attracted to competitive pinball due to the higher payouts at the state and national championship.

    Some new players will be attracted because of the reason you mentioned.

    I think we’re both right?

    #159 6 years ago

    i certainly didn't wake up this morning and expect "rage supress" to appear on my computer screen. everyday, an adventure.

    #160 6 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    The burning question out of all of this... Can you suppress mid-tournament?

    And if so, can you then demand a pro-rated refund of your $1?

    #161 6 years ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    Like it or not, to gain popularity you have to have legitimacy and you are never going to get that with the public with $80 prize winnings for a state championship in your sport.

    in that case, they would be much smarter to keep a much larger % form the state championships and funnel it to the national championships.

    You want press??? Advertise a 100k prize for the national champion. Take 100% of the money at each state and funnel directly to Nationals.

    Sorry but some scrub winning 1k to 2k (Keep in mind that the majority of states are still going to be well under $500 for first place in SCS) is laughable. People regularly wind more on illeagal cherry machines and pull tabs.

    #162 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    in that case, they would be much smarter to keep a much larger % form the state championships and funnel it to the national championships.
    You want press??? Advertise a 100k prize for the national champion. Take 100% of the money at each state and funnel directly to Nationals.
    Sorry but some scrub winning 1k to 2k (Keep in mind that the majority of states are still going to be well under $500 for first place in SCS) is laughable. People regularly wind more on illeagal cherry machines and pull tabs.

    Maybe so, but you have to start somewhere. I would have felt much better about saying I won $500 and a free entry into the national event than I did saying I won $100 and $20 of it was my own money. I think it's definitely worth giving the idea a shot for a year to see what happens.

    #163 6 years ago

    If I'm a casual player and I don't care about the IFPA but want to participate in the local IFPA sanctioned bar tournament with my friends can the tournament director force me to pay $1? Can I just participate and not have my results submitted to the IFPA?

    #164 6 years ago

    You would be surprised what people will pay. I see this as a lost opportunity for the IFPA. You could have mandated that anyone who plays in a Stern circuit event has to be registered with the IFPA that is 1000+ people right there. For most tournaments this is easy upon registration where you have to supply your IFPA number or you get charged an extra $20 when entering, that tournament submits all $$$ to IFPA upon submission of their tournament. You want to run a Stern event, then it comes with this administration.

    If you don't like empty fields then provide the full results and put anyone who is not registered in red and italics, have another field under their profile that states lost points. It s a great marketing feature that many organizations use to entice the consumer to sign up for their rewards cards and other things. For your $20 membership fee you get priority signup for Replay FX, 24 hours in advance, top 1000 get SAtern Reward program, top 64 an invite to IFPA, and waived IFPA fee at Stern Circuit events. There are many things you could have done as really no cost to IFPA to make this membership enticing for people to sign up for every January.

    Yes, I hope you realize this I am just busting your balls and I am a huge supporter for everything you guys do. I am only stating this cause the yearly membership fee would have been a more receptive, wouldn't have caused as much controversy and enable you guys to meet your goals.

    At the same time you would not have burden TD's that run small/charity tournaments with this whole collection method, and would have had a bunch of TD's that would have actively marketed the membership for you and got people to register so that their tournaments would be worth more WPPR.

    The IFPA is on the right track here and support what you guys are doing it is just too bad that us as TD's have to be burdened with all this handling of cash, and paypack to the IFPA.

    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    How many of those 2500 people would pay $20 . . . and at some point as the season gets into the second half what's the chance of convincing a player to pay their $20 for that current season?
    With the current rate of registered accounts, you would then have results that are 91% 'empty' with 0 points assigned to them. The idea of pulling up the Pinburgh results of 800 players and seeing that 728 of those names listed as "0.0" doesn't seem like a positive thing to me with respect to the optics of people checking out results on our site.

    We're also 5 weeks from launch and are putting the finishing touches on the current implementation plan. The idea of starting a NEW plan now, scrapping all the work we've already done to get this process started just isn't going to happen (even if the greatest idea ever was pitched RIGHT NOW).

    #165 6 years ago
    Quoted from Black_Knight:

    I like having a second TD to make calls where the primary TD is involved, but other than that what’s the issue?

    Was referring to guys that run solo (You laugh, but I've seen 30+ player tournaments run basically solo), but even some tournaments that have had supposed multiple directors with just one of them participating in the event have had issues that would've been much more easily addressed had the TD not been involved in playing. When a decision is need urgently and it's dependent on one person, that can be really terrible. I've been lucky that the events I used to run went as smooth as they did, and any issues that came up affected EVERYONE that was there. (someone pulled the fire alarm as a prank a few times.)

    *Edit* minor disclaimer... I haven't had any 'bad' tournament experiences in several years. The advent of things like MatchPlay have greatly simplified running tournaments. Still..someone needs to be available that's not on a game.

    #166 6 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Rage suppress is all the rage!
    You don't have to suppress in protest - you can do it if you beef out in a tournament or don't otherwise perform up to your lofty standards. Works best in tandem with a wordy Facebook "stupid goodbye" post.

    serenity (resized).jpgserenity (resized).jpg

    #167 6 years ago
    Quoted from pins4life33:

    put anyone who is not registered in red and italics, have another field under their profile that states lost points.

    BWAHAHAHA LMFAO...I actually kind of love this. I'd totally be in to see how much red I could rack up.

    #168 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hi-Fi:

    If I'm a casual player and I don't care about the IFPA but want to participate in the local IFPA sanctioned bar tournament with my friends can the tournament director force me to pay $1? Can I just participate and not have my results submitted to the IFPA?

    This is up to the TD organizing the event. They have the ability to offer an opt-out at the player level if they choose to do so.

    There are a bunch of events I'm aware of where the location is sponsoring the fee, so there's no $1 to be paid by you.

    There are a bunch of events I'm aware of where the TD is taking the fee out of the pockets of the winners, so there's no $1 to be paid by you (unless you win - then you are subsidizing the fee).

    I would contact your local TD to see how they plan on moving forward with respect to the fee.

    #169 6 years ago

    You could run a 'In the Red' free tournament for the top 64 across the country that qualify lol...

    Quoted from Frax:

    BWAHAHAHA LMFAO...I actually kind of love this. I'd totally be in to see how much red I could rack up.

    #170 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hi-Fi:

    If I'm a casual player and I don't care about the IFPA but want to participate in the local IFPA sanctioned bar tournament with my friends can the tournament director force me to pay $1? Can I just participate and not have my results submitted to the IFPA?

    I would hope that any local TD would be willing to do that for you. I see zero reason to prevent people from playing. If they dont want to be part of IFPA/ pay the $1 then why force them... makes zero sense.

    Curious, which TD is planning to do this?

    #171 6 years ago
    Quoted from pins4life33:

    You could run a 'In the Red' free tournament for the top 64 across the country that qualify lol...

    YASSSSSSSSS *THAT* needs to happen LOL.

    #172 6 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    There are a bunch of events I'm aware of where the TD is taking the fee out of the pockets of the winners, so there's no $1 to be paid by you (unless you win - then you are subsidizing the fee).

    At our local leagues there is no cash prize.... the prize is beer from a local sponsor.

    #173 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hi-Fi:

    At our local leagues there is no cash prize.... the prize is beer from a local sponsor.

    C....can I come play in your leage? :Þ

    -1
    #174 6 years ago
    Quoted from LesManley:

    I think it's definitely worth giving the idea a shot for a year to see what happens.

    nope, not gonna support it. I have put in many years of running numerous events and even pushing forward the sport in WI and encouranging others also, only to have this BS pulled. You would think for all the efforts they could have at least granfathered in the largest/oldest charity event in the state...

    #175 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I would hope that any local TD would be willing to do that for you. I see zero reason to prevent people from playing. If they dont want to be part of IFPA/ pay the $1 then why force them... makes zero sense.
    Curious, which TD is planning to do this?

    Monthly Tournaments - Entry Fee - $5 for someones first time at our location - $10 for others. $1 will be subtracted from the prize pool.
    Our normal league - Entry Fee - $1 to cover IFPA Fee , Top 3 of 6 events count towards standings per season.
    Our selfie League - $1 to cover IFPA Fee will be covered by location
    Charity Events - Entry Fee - Normally $20+ - we'll subtract from prize pool or location/i'll cover
    Ad-hoc Promotional Events - Mostly occur within 30 day window and won't be IFPA events.

    All of this is transparent to all our participants and I don't see anyone having a problem with it.

    #176 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    If they dont want to be part of IFPA/ pay the $1 then why force them... makes zero sense.

    I just want to know if a player has the right to choose to participate without paying a fee or if they can be forced by a tournament director to pay up. There may be some tournament directors who will force a fee on people to keep their number of participants and tournament point values up. This is not fair to the casual player.

    This is why I do not agree with the way this system is set up. The casual pinball player is subsidizing the more serious player.

    I don't have a problem with the IFPA charging fees necessarily but if you want to be recognized by the IFPA go on the IFPA website and pay a yearly "due". The casual player that loves playing pinball with his or her friends should not be forced into playing for points that they don't care about.

    Sticking it to the casual pinball player that plays for fun is not a way to "grow pinball".

    #177 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hi-Fi:

    I just want to know if a player has the right to choose to participate without paying a fee or if they can be forced by a tournament director to pay up. There may be some tournament directors who will force a fee on people to keep their number of participants and tournament point values up. This is not fair to the casual player.
    This is why I do not agree with the way this system is set up. The casual pinball player is subsidizing the more serious player.
    I don't have a problem with the IFPA charging fees necessarily but if you want to be recognized by the IFPA go on the IFPA website and pay a yearly "due". The casual player that loves playing pinball with his or her friends should not be forced into playing for points that they don't care about.
    Sticking it to the casual pinball player that plays for fun is not a way to "grow pinball".

    We all have choices just like Tournament Directors. If the majority of our participants protested the $1 change and wouldn't visit our location anymore we'd obviously provide feedback to Josh and look at making changes ourselves. Events have to be mutually beneficial to both the establishment (if its an event at a business) and the player. I would encourage folks as yourself to provide this feedback to the tournament directors and feel free to pass that information onto Josh or in this thread etc.

    Personally I'm interested to see how these changes unfold in 2018 and plan to support the IFPA 100%. This might be a bit biased since I'm the state rep for NC but both myself and the owner of the establishment I run events at find value in the IFPA. We have a group on facebook with over 100 players and enjoy seeing how we rank in the state and world.

    I also have a lot of respect for Josh because he spends a lot of time on different forums and social media platforms answering as many questions as he can and give reasons why he's doing things the way he/they are.

    #178 6 years ago

    Frax - I get it but those are logistical concerns not ethical ones. That’s why I was confused at first.

    I run our weekly league and when it is at my house my scores are always lower due to the distractions.

    I’ve also got my annual YE points grab tourney next week. 24 people at my house. Lots of work but having backup TD and tech along with match play fire scores takes a lot of hassle out of the day.

    As far as the $1 question, if you play in one of my tournaments you will pay it and will be recorded. I’m not taking time to manage any scrubs.

    #179 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    You would think for all the efforts they could have at least granfathered in the largest/oldest charity event in the state...

    The opportunity to help YOU of all people out . . . so tempting!

    19
    #180 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    nope, not gonna support it. I have put in many years of running numerous events and even pushing forward the sport in WI and encouranging others also, only to have this BS pulled.

    Yeah, WE get it already!
    Not only are you going to "not support" it, you're going to be a jerk and try to rally others against it, and basically fight AGAINST the people trying to get it going. Just go away and drain the topic if you don't support, rather than post again and again spewing the same shit. You will change nothing, isn't that clear to you by now?
    The fee should be taken from the prize pool, If you're not charging entry/paying winners, does your Tourney really justify points and tracking?
    That means the winners pay the fee, by taking a slightly smaller prize. It is not cramming it down the casual players throat, or taking their money.
    IF they allowed charity events etc, to be free, guess what? Every tourney is now some kind of BS charity. That would happen. Just look at how TDs have tried to game the system in any way they can over all the changes and all the years.
    And finally, it is NOT hard to pay 20-30 bucks when entering results as a TD. It's just not. Quit acting like it's some HUGE chore that's gonna cut into your day and wreck your life.
    Looking forward to a Whysnow thumbs-down, even tho I haven't downed all his hate posts in this thread, there's just too many.

    -1
    #181 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hi-Fi:

    I just want to know if a player has the right to choose to participate without paying a fee or if they can be forced by a tournament director to pay up.

    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    This is up to the TD organizing the event.

    Again, it's up to YOUR TOURNAMENT DIRECTOR. They make all decisions regarding their tournaments. They can bar you from participating in their tournament, they can take a cut of the entry fee and invest it in h&b. It's up to your tournament director.

    I think what you're really asking is if you can tell your tournament director that you refuse to pay the IFPA fee but you're still going to play in the tournament. It's up to your TD if s/he will allow it or not.

    #182 6 years ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    I'm still not understanding why everyone thinks it will. New players show up because someone told them it's a good time, not because they saw on TV that if they beat the best player in the world that they will win $10,000.

    The poker boom was predicated on ESPN coverage of everyman Chris Moneymaker beating then-best player in the world Phil Ivey en route to winning $2.5 million. This poured billions (with a B) into tournament poker for the next decade plus, at every level, from $10 bar leagues to $1,000,000 buy-in high roller tourneys.

    If pinball can generate even a fraction of that TV coverage, excitement, and growth, players could be competing for mid-tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in the future. If that sounds far-fetched, I can assure you no one in poker thought the WSOP main event would grow from 839 players in 2003 to 8,773 players in 2006, at $10,000 per entry.

    edit: LesManley beat me to it.

    #183 6 years ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    Big money for tournaments brings media attention... Which generates exposure... Which generates interest... Which grows pinball overall.
    It's not at all supposed to be "OMG BIG CASH PRIZE MUST PLAY".

    More than anything, this ^.

    #184 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    "Don't announce drains, ignores, or Supressions."

    Forget that, I plan to -

    Suppress my IFPA Profile.
    Drain this thread.
    Unvisit the drained thread.
    Ignore the thread OP.
    Deactivate my account.

    And then, only then, start a moderator feedback thread to see if there is an achievement for it

    #185 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hi-Fi:

    If I'm a casual player and I don't care about the IFPA but want to participate in the local IFPA sanctioned bar tournament with my friends can the tournament director force me to pay $1? Can I just participate and not have my results submitted to the IFPA?

    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I would hope that any local TD would be willing to do that for you. I see zero reason to prevent people from playing. If they dont want to be part of IFPA/ pay the $1 then why force them... makes zero sense.

    Agreed that in a free, casual tournament with no entry-fee and no prizes (or just beer/pizza), it would be nice to keep the $1 fee and IFPA participation optional. Even if it's laughably small.

    On the flip side, why wouldn't you offer people playing in your free/charity tourneys the opportunity to pay an extra buck (of their own money) for the chance to earn IFPA points? Those that care can pay the nominal fee, those that don't won't. It's an extra few minutes of work for you to track who paid and submit their results (same as it would be for the beer-league guy in the example above to allow people not to pay the $1 or get IFPA points), but would avoid the issue of losing participants that predominantly play for points, and presumably keep everyone happy.

    Like DNO says, this only matters in the free/charity tourney context, since in a entry-fee/prize-pool tourney everyone will just take the IFPA $$ out of the pot and the players will never have to think about it.

    #186 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hi-Fi:

    I just want to know if a player has the right to choose to participate without paying a fee or if they can be forced by a tournament director to pay up. There may be some tournament directors who will force a fee on people to keep their number of participants and tournament point values up. This is not fair to the casual player.
    This is why I do not agree with the way this system is set up. The casual pinball player is subsidizing the more serious player.
    I don't have a problem with the IFPA charging fees necessarily but if you want to be recognized by the IFPA go on the IFPA website and pay a yearly "due". The casual player that loves playing pinball with his or her friends should not be forced into playing for points that they don't care about.
    Sticking it to the casual pinball player that plays for fun is not a way to "grow pinball".

    100% agree with you Rob.

    #187 6 years ago
    Quoted from Taxman:

    ...to see if there is an achievement for it

    There's a rumor that's the FINAL achievement before nirvana

    #188 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    There's a rumor that's the FINAL achievement before nirvana

    Tommy Pinball Cross (resized).JPGTommy Pinball Cross (resized).JPG

    -6
    #189 6 years ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    That means the winners pay the fee, by taking a slightly smaller prize. It is not cramming it down the casual players throat, or taking their money.

    I have no problem with the winner paying the fee to the IFPA. Hell, they can have 100% of the winnings. Josh, where should I mail your Pint/Pitcher of beer each month?

    DNO > you continue to not get it... 80% of the events in WI are F R E E to enter. the 20% that are pay to enter are run in private homes for the most part and do payouts (amazingly, those are the ones that are also forcing people to pay the $1 entry fee and have no issue with the change; those are also the events that dont bring in any casuals or completely new people to the scene since you have to be invited to attend)
    80% are No entry fee at all. Just show up and play pinball on a week night. Your prize? typically a free drink or pitcher from the bar for them saying thanks for hanging out and drinking on a Wednesday night.

    At one point Josh suggested that the operator pay the fee for all 20 people out of the coin drop. That was even funnier.

    Typical competitive pinball night is 20 guys. They each spend $5 on pinball, so $100 in coin drop.
    minus 5.5 for tax off the top
    minus 50% split for the location
    That leaves 47.25 for the operator

    Now take out the monthly insurance, fees, and maintenance...

    You are left with $27. Josh suggests the operator just give the IFPA $20. In other words, he wants 75% of the coin drop from that night to go to the IFPA.

    Laughable. Oh yeah... he also wants to make more work for the operator since they need to report and collect and pay money in.

    Now DNO, I understand you think you are a top dog and understandably have a decent chance at winning CO to take home some solid money at the end of the year. I can fully understand your desire to support this at the detriment of all the casual and new players that will be feeding your prize pool. Reality is you are defending that you would have paid in only $23 dollar this year and could be walking away with a $2500 prize pool for winning state. I will say that I think it is worth pointing out that factually this little change of "only $1" increases the payout for the top 16 players in a state with almost 500 unique people that would be supporting your SCS prize package. Take away those casual players and there goes your big payout.

    #190 6 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Agreed that in a free, casual tournament with no entry-fee and no prizes (or just beer/pizza), it would be nice to keep the $1 fee and IFPA participation optional. Even if it's laughably small.

    On the flip side, why wouldn't you offer people playing in your free/charity tourneys the opportunity to pay an extra buck (of their own money) for the chance to earn IFPA points? Those that care can pay the nominal fee, those that don't won't. It's an extra few minutes of work for you to track who paid and submit their results (same as it would be for the beer-league guy in the example above to allow people not to pay the $1 or get IFPA points), but would avoid the issue of losing participants that predominantly play for points, and presumably keep everyone happy.

    Like DNO says, this only matters in the free/charity tourney context, since in a entry-fee/prize-pool tourney everyone will just take the IFPA $$ out of the pot and the players will never have to think about it.

    If someone else want to independently submit, track, and do this, then they can. I wont be collecting or paying a single dollar into IFPA.

    The difference between your example of opting to provide IFPA sanctioning and Robs example of allowing "opt-out" players to play in a sanctioned event is actually very differnet.

    Providing IFPA sanctioning takes a whole bunch of added work.

    Allowing someone to play and just not pay the $1/ not be counted takes absolutely NO extra work. You just dont submit their name to IFPA. This should not be an issue for any reputable tournament director. If anything I would say it is against the whole idea of supporting the growth of competitive pinball. You should embrace these people that opt out and hope that you keep them engaged while the IFPA experiments with things in 2018, or maybe they change their mind and opt-in at some point. They provide a benefit to your location and have zero negative impact to your other players or the TD since they dont cause any more work.

    #191 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I will say that I think it is pretty shady of you to guise your support of this rule change as anything besides a nice added payout for the top 16 players in a state with almost 500 uniqiue people that would be supporting your SCS prize package.

    And I will say that it's extraordinarily lame to go personal like this. We get it, you strongly disagree with DNO. But when you attack someone else's character rather than their arguments, you lose credibility yourself.

    #192 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    If someone else want to independently submit, track, and do this, then they can. I wont be collecting or paying a single dollar into IFPA.
    The difference between your example of opting to provide IFPA sanctioning and Robs example of allowing "opt-out" players to play in a sanctioned event is actually very differnet.
    Providing IFPA sanctioning takes a whole bunch of added work.

    But isn't it all the same work you were willing to do this year when there was no charge for it? So why not do the same amount of work next year for those that want IFPA points and are willing to pay? It'll be exactly the same except that you collect some money and submit it to IFPA along with the results, right?

    #193 6 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    But isn't it all the same work you were willing to do this year when there was no charge for it? So why not do the same amount of work next year for those that want IFPA points and are willing to pay? It'll be exactly the same except that you collect some money and submit it to IFPA along with the results, right?

    The value equation is not the same as this year.

    It is actually way more work and hassle to collect a buck for each person and then turn around and pay that money to the IFPA. (not even taking into account the legal implications and risks which have still not been address properly).

    Aside form the extra work, the value has shifted.

    The fee sets up a structure of turning off new casuals and feeding it up to the top 1%. I largely donated my time to help grow the sport and bring in new people. I will not donate my time for the benefit of a select few to win a couple grand at the state level or 15k at the national level.

    There are numerous other ways this could have been implemented more fairly but I have found it is the typical fashion of the IFPA to do the Josh way first and then adjust later. I am done being part of his experiment and donating my time for his/IFPA long term personal payout.

    #194 6 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    For instance, the PGA would grow by leaps and bounds if anybody with a Nine Iron could be a "pro golfer," but it wouldn't necessarily improve the product or the competition, and in fact would damage the credibility of the organization.

    You do not have a clue about professional golf, do you. Levi, if you're going to compare professional pinball to something, at least know what you're talking about.

    #195 6 years ago
    Quoted from Dooskie:

    You do not have a clue about professional golf, do you.

    Dude he's played NGG like a million times, what else is there to know?

    #196 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Allowing someone to play and just not pay the $1/ not be counted takes absolutely NO extra work

    It does for me. I use matchplay for my tournaments and it creates my file automatically. I’d have to change it to remove non payers.

    Is it a lot of work? No.
    Is a dollar a lot of money? No.

    I’m not doing because of the work, it’s the principle.

    Both arguments sound ridiculous don’t they?

    #197 6 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    And I will say that it's extraordinarily lame to go personal like this. We get it, you strongly disagree with DNO. But when you attack someone else's character rather than their arguments, you lose credibility yourself.

    Pretty sure i was not the one to make it personal.

    Quoted from DNO:

    you're going to be a jerk

    #198 6 years ago

    I don't think it's right to not let the player have a choice to participate or not partipate in the IFPA. This is essentially what is happening if the tournament director gets to decide.

    You can argue that if you don't want to pay the fee don't participate in the IFPA tournament. This will most likely turn some people away. This is the opposite of what this new fee structure is trying to accomplish.

    Give the freedom of choice to the player.

    The side benefit is that if your tournament takes the IFPA fee out of the normal prize pool then someone opting out will keep the money at that local event. At the local event a person who will never qualify for state at least has a shot at winning some of their donation money back.

    #199 6 years ago

    Casual players can play for fun, not money or points or any of the other stuff the "pros" get to do, and pay for.
    NOT being sanctioned will probly drive away the more competitive players, thus encouraging more casual players.
    Want to play with the pros? $1 please.

    #200 6 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    the 20% that are pay to enter are run in private homes for the most part and do payouts (amazingly, those are the ones that are also forcing people to pay the $1 entry fee and have no issue with the change; those are also the events that dont bring in any casuals or completely new people to the scene since you have to be invited to attend)

    Isn't one of the rules that the event must be public and open to everyone thus not qualifying for points?

    There are 307 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 7.

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