(Topic ID: 203726)

Bowen Kerins now a "Suppressed Player" on IFPA?


By dyopp21

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 307 posts
  • 78 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Xerico
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 9 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    system-failure-640x353 (resized).jpg
    rounders (resized).jpg
    Tommy Pinball Cross (resized).JPG
    serenity (resized).jpg
    bbhjosh (resized).jpg
    Howard Stern (resized).jpg
    Untitled (resized).jpg
    943A8F75-28A3-4140-8EEE-971AEF83B4C2 (resized).jpeg
    IMG_8755 (resized).JPG

    This topic is closed.

    There are 307 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 7.
    #1 1 year ago

    I was just doing research on some of the top ranked players on the IFPA website, and when I went to look at Bowen Kerins current standings/ranking I noticed he wasn't coming up on a player search. After some digging into older tournaments he participated in, his finishing position now reads as "suppressed player."

    Wondering if he's left the IFPA, or maybe just a site glitch?

    21
    #2 1 year ago

    He left voluntarily, in protest of 2018 changes.

    #3 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

    He left voluntarily, in protest of 2018 changes.

    Damn, hate to hear this. Was it over the additional fees they're adding?

    #4 1 year ago

    The $1 was too much. Did you know it was "only" 1 dollar?

    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

    He left voluntarily, in protest of 2018 changes.

    gained a lot of my respect in doing so!

    #6 1 year ago

    For the record, his objection is that the $1 fee applies to charity tournaments as well.

    The IFPA argument is that if having the IFPA endorsement will attract you more players, and as such earn more money for the charity, then it's worth it to pay it as an operating cost of the tournament. If IFPA endorsement WON'T attract more players -- then don't use the endorsement and have your charity tournament as is. No Fee.

    27
    #7 1 year ago

    It's 2017, so everyone is required to protest something.

    33
    #8 1 year ago
    Quoted from Guinnesstime:

    It's 2017, so everyone is required to protest something.

    Not sure whether I should agree with you or protest....

    38
    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from epthegeek:

    For the record, his objection is that the $1 fee applies to charity tournaments as well.
    The IFPA argument is that if having the IFPA endorsement will attract you more players, and as such earn more money for the charity, then it's worth it to pay it as an operating cost of the tournament. If IFPA endorsement WON'T attract more players -- then don't use the endorsement and have your charity tournament as is. No Fee.

    I'm a relatively new tournament director (we opened our location in Feb of this year) but I can say that the addition of IFPA sanctioning in our tournaments for our little place has been a pretty big boon for participation. Having been a former dart competitor, I built our arcade around the spirit of competition with gallery monitors on 90% of the machines (and adding more as I can afford) and weekly tournaments. In the beginning I only did "fun" tournaments and we would average 8-10 people. A couple months ago I changed that to a weekly Friday night IFPA sanctioned tournament and I've watched our participation swell to more than double those original numbers since doing so. In addition we've had players driving up to 4 hours just to participate. Last Friday night we had 23 players and as the race to the end of the year picks up steam (we are hosting the first ever SCS for the state of Tennessee in Jan) I suspect we'll continue to see similar numbers and possibly even more.

    Last Friday at our "Friday Night Fights" tournament.
    IMG_8755 (resized).JPG

    I had heard about the additional fees but hadn't given them a lot of thought until now, actually. If the draw of IFPA points continues to bring in top level players in their current numbers, I suppose I don't mind the extra fee, although I think a one-time registration fee would have been easier logistically speaking. For what it's worth.

    Yopp

    #10 1 year ago

    Man ! What a nice location you created there, whish i was closer
    Great Yopp!

    -3
    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    The $1 was too much. Did you know it was "only" 1 dollar?

    I thought it was because a 13 year old bet him.

    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    I was just doing research on some of the top ranked players on the IFPA website, and when I went to look at Bowen Kerins current standings/ranking I noticed he wasn't coming up on a player search. After some digging into older tournaments he participated in, his finishing position now reads as "suppressed player."

    He left soon after the decision was announced IIRC, so it happened soon after April 1st, 2017.

    #13 1 year ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    with gallery monitors on 90% of the machines

    I may have asked this before, but could you share the set up you are using for this?

    Would love to get a list of parts, things you have learned, set up instructions, etc...

    I am pretty non-tech when it comes to this sort of thing but woudl love to set at least a few up at one of our locations.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    gallery monitors on 90% of the machines

    are those security cameras? looks like a plexi glass box above the machine.

    I thought of doing something like that at a location, but The thought of the machines getting pushed and the camera view getting moved over and over kinda halted that idea. Guess I never thought of making it part of the machine, like tying into the back to leg bolts or something.

    #15 1 year ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    I'm a relatively new tournament director (we opened our location in Feb of this year) but I can say that the addition of IFPA sanctioning in our tournaments for our little place has been a pretty big boon for participation. Having been a former dart competitor, I built our arcade around the spirit of competition with gallery monitors on 90% of the machines (and adding more as I can afford) and weekly tournaments. In the beginning I only did "fun" tournaments and we would average 8-10 people. A couple months ago I changed that to a weekly Friday night IFPA sanctioned tournament and I've watched our participation swell to more than double those original numbers since doing so. In addition we've had players driving up to 4 hours just to participate. Last Friday night we had 23 players and as the race to the end of the year picks up steam (we are hosting the first ever SCS for the state of Tennessee in Jan) I suspect we'll continue to see similar numbers and possibly even more.
    Last Friday at our "Friday Night Fights" tournament.

    I had heard about the additional fees but hadn't given them a lot of thought until now, actually. If the draw of IFPA points continues to bring in top level players in their current numbers, I suppose I don't mind the extra fee, although I think a one-time registration fee would have been easier logistically speaking. For what it's worth.
    Yopp

    Another proud operator of SF2 pinball!

    10
    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I may have asked this before, but could you share the set up you are using for this?
    Would love to get a list of parts, things you have learned, set up instructions, etc...
    I am pretty non-tech when it comes to this sort of thing but woudl love to set at least a few up at one of our locations.

    Yeah I remember a few people asking about them and I meant to do a video and break down all the parts and how I made the mount and put it all together, but I was so busy with trying to get the place up and running smoothly I let it slip. I shot a short video a couple weeks ago and you can kind of see how they are mounted and see the screens “in action” although they look much better in person. The camera tends to wash them out. I’ll post the video I shot below, and I have to go out later this week and do some work, I’ll break out my phone and give a detailed overview and start a new thread here with instructions on how I did It. I recently had to change the setup with my newer rigs because they quit making the original cams I used. However it worked out because the new cameras are less expensive, easier to mount and WAY easier to adjust.

    Here’s the vid:

    And here is a pic of a newer rig mounted on SW:
    943A8F75-28A3-4140-8EEE-971AEF83B4C2 (resized).jpeg

    #17 1 year ago

    thanks!

    really looking forward to your list of equipment and setup details!

    Appreciate you taking the time to put it together

    #18 1 year ago

    What’s the big deal about a $1? What’s the actual rule, per game? Per entry? Per tournament?

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from HighProtein:

    Another proud operator of SF2 pinball!

    Hey that machine has made me some money! The shocker with running this arcade has been, before I got SW, Space Jam ($.75 per Game) and Butterfly ($.50 per Game) were my biggest earners, with SF2 not far behind. When I finished restoring Vector and Skateball they stole a little bit of their thunder but they’re still solid earners.

    -2
    #20 1 year ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    What’s the big deal about a $1? What’s the actual rule, per game? Per entry? Per tournament?

    The big deal is Wisconsin appearently

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/are-you-in-favor-of-the-ifpa-changes-for-2018-poll

    #21 1 year ago

    Yeah. It caused such an outrage that they decided to make a whole new ranking and sanctioning body and system in Wisconsin.

    And then they didn’t bother cause turns out it’s hard.

    #22 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    gained a lot of my respect in doing so!

    Looks like you're still in the IFPA system though?

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Looks like you're still in the IFPA system though?

    yup, no fee through 2017

    I will take all the free tracking I can get, lol.

    I will be running my last sanctioned event on Dec 31st 2017, unless the IFPA waives all fees for charity tournaments.

    In case you did not realize, Bowen was a top 10 player. By suppressing himself it sends a nice point and a big middle finger to the IFPA when they all know that Bowen has thrown off the whole system for everyone below the top 10. it was a nice way to make his point and then peace out.

    #24 1 year ago

    Everyone will see how successful/ or not implementing a fee will be after next year. Josh said this is an experiment, if it doesn't work it will be changed. It might make the tournament director's job a bit more of a logistical nightmare, but only time will tell.

    #25 1 year ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    yup, no fee through 2017
    I will take all the free tracking I can get, lol.
    I will be running my last sanctioned event on Dec 31st 2017, unless the IFPA waives all fees for charity tournaments.
    In case you did not realize, Bowen was a top 10 player. By suppressing himself it sends a nice point and a big middle finger to the IFPA when they all know that Bowen has thrown off the whole system for everyone below the top 10. it was a nice way to make his point and then peace out.

    Yeah, everybody is really pissed that they rose up 1 in the rankings!

    If only ten more top guys would suppress I’d be top 25!

    #26 1 year ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    However it worked out because the new cameras are less expensive, easier to mount and WAY easier to adjust.
    Here’s the vid: » YouTube video

    I bought 12 of those identical looking cams when I installed a security system on one job, they were analog 700tvl. pretty cheap, like 30 bucks maybe.
    guessing they probably sell those in 1080 or higher now though.

    anywoo thanks for the idea.

    #27 1 year ago

    Bowen “suppressed” himself from Pinside too IIRC

    Weird

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from Frippertron:

    Everyone will see how successful/ or not implementing a fee will be after next year. Josh said this is an experiment, if it doesn't work it will be changed. It might make the tournament director's job a bit more of a logistical nightmare, but only time will tell.

    Josh has also said that he doesn't care if the overall number of people registered with ifpa falls. So there is no way to measure the success of this "expirement".

    #29 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinlink:

    Josh has also said that he doesn't care if the overall number of people registered with ifpa falls. So there is no way to measure the success of this "expirement".

    I've pegged my personal benchmark for IFPA "success" at 12,600 active players for 2018. I would be really happy if we hit that number.

    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    I've pegged my personal benchmark for IFPA "success" at 12,600 active players for 2018. I would be really happy if we hit that number.

    what defines an 'active' player?
    how many active players in 2017, 2016, 2015?

    #31 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinlink:

    Josh has also said that he doesn't care if the overall number of people registered with ifpa falls. So there is no way to measure the success of this "expirement".

    There is a very easy way to define success. Do Josh and his top ranked friend make more money off the masses? Yes, then it's a success.

    #32 1 year ago
    Quoted from MotorCityMatt:

    I thought it was because a 13 year old bet him.

    What was the bet?

    #33 1 year ago
    Quoted from Marvin:

    There is a very easy way to define success. Do Josh and his top ranked friend make more money off the masses? Yes, then it's a success.

    That is a 100% yes. There will be more money filtering from the masses to the National prize pool. That is really the whole point of the change and it appears lots of states will be donating lots of money to that pool.

    #34 1 year ago

    The money to run these types of organizations has to come from somewhere....it’s not like ESPN, Coke and Pepsi are lining up to throw millions of $$ at pinball leagues.

    #35 1 year ago

    But he is not even using the money to run the organization, servers, IFPA board . . .

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the money goes back to the prize pools for the State Championships.

    #36 1 year ago
    Quoted from Blitzburgh99:

    The money to run these types of organizations has to come from somewhere....it’s not like ESPN, Coke and Pepsi are lining up to throw millions of $$ at pinball leagues.

    In case you missed it, none of the funds being funneled in are for administration fees. They are to build the prize pool in an attempt to get on a bigger national stage (which would then possible bring in sponsorship money and payoffs in the longer term)

    #37 1 year ago
    Quoted from Taxman:

    but the money goes back to the prize pools for the State Championships

    75% to states top players
    25% to nationals event

    In many states that equates to a $30-50 buyin for the top player (assuming they play in that many events) that will take home a couple thousand dollar prize pool (for winning SCS)

    11
    #38 1 year ago

    People get too caught up in what goes where, who is getting what. In the end, it should boil down to this:

    Does the IFPA provide a value to your league or event? If so, participate in the new system, and if it doesn't, then don't.

    Quoted from dyopp21:

    In the beginning I only did "fun" tournaments and we would average 8-10 people. A couple months ago I changed that to a weekly Friday night IFPA sanctioned tournament and I've watched our participation swell to more than double those original numbers since doing so.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about. The IFPA is delivering great value to you. You would be hit hard if you suddenly dropped the sanctioning.

    If anything, if there is a drop in participation by some events because they don't want to pay the dollar, the ones that still offer it will in turn see a bump in their participation as people look for more WPPRs elsewhere.

    -4
    #39 1 year ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    In the end, it should boil down to this

    you have to keep in mind that many players and TDs put a lot of effort into helping build the IFPA and then they changed the goal posts for their own benefit.
    That is what it really boils down to for the people I have spoken to that are against this change. To negate the effort they have put in and boil it down to something less is iggnorant at best. That and the charging of $1 to the base of the pyramid just to funnel it up to the top 1% does not work for many TDs or players.

    I suggest thinking about the reality of how the IFPA has grown to the level it currently has and that is largely on the shoulders and efforts of the TDs over the past few years.

    Nothing like being part of a team effort just to have the people at the top of the organization change the rules and take advantage of your past efforts with no thanks and for planned self gain.

    Quoted from frolic:

    You would be hit hard if you suddenly dropped the sanctioning.

    The scene will evolve over time and a few months in is not enough data for him to tell the net gain or loss. You also need to factor in his effort and time. Adding 10 people means an additional $50 in coin drop. Factor in split, upkeep, time, taxes, fees, etc and you may have brought in an additional $20. Guess what... you now owe the IFPA $20 for the 20 people that played in your event.

    I predict in WI the # of sanctioned events drop by ~50% for next year. The 2 largest events (5 total competitions) wont be IFPA anymore. 1 of the 3 regions has said they wont be IFPA. I am sure some events will pop up that are new, but then again WI is unique I suppose since people dont charge a player fee already and we are also saturated with events per capita.

    #40 1 year ago

    So people are really upset about a $1 increase that goes 100% back to the state and national winners? Is it $1 per player per tourney?

    If that's all it is people need to spend a little more time focusing on real problems in the world. Who really freaking cares, it's $1. If you can't afford that you couldn't afford to get to the tourney to begin with. Don't tell me its the principle of the matter either. I'm sick of everyone and their principles on everything.

    #41 1 year ago

    Its the principle of the matter

    #42 1 year ago

    Yes would love to see the setups for this as well, cameras and screens look great.

    16
    #43 1 year ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    Who really freaking cares, it's $1.

    Just queuing this up for when 2019 rolls around...

    12
    #44 1 year ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Bowen “suppressed” himself from Pinside too IIRC
    Weird

    I don’t think so.

    All I can say is Bowen is a fantastic guy and looked after me and my wife at pinburgh this year and I’ve learned a huge amount from his tutorials both at pinburgh and online - he does a lot for Pinball.

    19
    #45 1 year ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    So people are really upset about a $1 increase that goes 100% back to the state and national winners? Is it $1 per player per tourney?
    If that's all it is people need to spend a little more time focusing on real problems in the world. Who really freaking cares, it's $1. If you can't afford that you couldn't afford to get to the tourney to begin with. Don't tell me its the principle of the matter either. I'm sick of everyone and their principles on everything.

    I have three problems with the $1 implementation.

    1. I spend time organizing, promoting and running the tournaments. The IFPA is going to waste my time submitting the $1 after each tournament. Now I have to give them my credit card each time, subtract that from the prize fund and pay myself back. You might say that only takes 10 minutes, but that's time I could be doing something else, like putting up a Facebook post, or updating the event listing on our league website.

    2. They won't give a pass to charity tournaments. Nothing like digging your hand into the pocket of people trying to raise money to support a local charity.

    3. Although the $1 cash grab is "supposed" to grow the sport of pinball, I'm just not understanding how that's going to happen. The money is going into the pockets of the top players. The theory is that larger prize pools will generate more interest from sponsors, which leads to bigger prize pools (for their pockets) and the ultimate growth of pinball.

    My issue is that I've never hear of anyone saying "Wow, the top prize for the Master's Golf Tournament is $1.9 million. I'm going to go join a golf league."

    If they would have said, we'll be using the $1 to promote local tournaments in your area. Or the $1 will be used for targeted Facebook advertising. That would be something I could get behind. Telling me that I need to collect, submit and account for $1 / person / event so they can stuff it in their pockets, isn't doing it for me.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying their shouldn't be some type of compensation for their time and effort. But then again, I pay back 100% of the take for all of my events and they have sponsors.

    -12
    #46 1 year ago
    Quoted from jgentry:

    So people are really upset about a $1 increase that goes 100% back to the state and national winners? Is it $1 per player per tourney?
    If that's all it is people need to spend a little more time focusing on real problems in the world. Who really freaking cares, it's $1. If you can't afford that you couldn't afford to get to the tourney to begin with. Don't tell me its the principle of the matter either. I'm sick of everyone and their principles on everything.

    Oh wow, really. I'm sick of your fuckin posts.

    -1
    #47 1 year ago

    Honestly, I wish Josh would have instituted a $5 fee a year to be an IFPA registered player, then funneled the funds to the National and State/Provincial pools, no one would have been the wiser and I wouldn’t have to read people complaining about giving up a dollar for each tournment they play and then by god that money only goes to the top 16 players in the state or the 40 or so state qualifiers. What an elitist system. Gimme a break... No one is making money on this deal if anything it help pay for a little bit of the expense to go and have a National Championship to try to increase pinball participation and awareness. Some people are just so short sighted.

    #48 1 year ago
    Quoted from yuriijos:

    Oh wow, really. I'm sick of your fuckin posts.

    Put me on ignore then and you don't have to see them.

    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    I have three problems with the $1 implementation.
    1. I spend time organizing, promoting and running the tournaments. The IFPA is going to waste my time submitting the $1 after each tournament. Now I have to give them my credit card each time, subtract that from the prize fund and pay myself back. You might say that only takes 10 minutes, but that's time I could be doing something else, like putting up a Facebook post, or updating the event listing on our league website.
    2. They won't give a pass to charity tournaments. Nothing like digging your hand into the pocket of people trying to raise money to support a local charity.
    3. Although the $1 cash grab is "supposed" to grow the sport of pinball, I'm just not understanding how that's going to happen. The money is going into the pockets of the top players. The theory is that larger prize pools will generate more interest from sponsors, which leads to bigger prize pools (for their pockets) and the ultimate growth of pinball.
    My issue is that I've never hear of anyone saying "Wow, the top prize for the Master's Golf Tournament is $1.9 million. I'm going to go join a golf league."
    If they would have said, we'll be using the $1 to promote local tournaments in your area. Or the $1 will be used for targeted Facebook advertising. That would be something I could get behind. Telling me that I need to collect, submit and account for $1 / person / event so they can stuff it in their pockets, isn't doing it for me.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying their shouldn't be some type of compensation for their time and effort. But then again, I pay back 100% of the take for all of my events and they have sponsors.

    I get your complaints as someone that is running the events. If it takes 10 minutes that is too long. They need to make it much easier then that for the people doing all of the hard work.

    #49 1 year ago
    Quoted from bcrage88:

    Honestly, I wish Josh would have instituted a $5 fee a year to be an IFPA registered player

    I suggested this back when this started. He shot it down because he said it would be too much work for him and he wanted the TDs to deal with it.

    That really pissed me off.

    Everyone that wants points goes to the IFPA website and pays $5. When I submit the results, it matches up the payment status of the player. If they paid they get points, if they don't, the system ignores their scores and moves on to the next player.

    Then all I need to do is direct the players to the IFPA website and viola' it's done. I can spend my time growing my league and not their bottom line.

    #50 1 year ago
    Quoted from Spyderturbo007:

    I suggested this back when this started. He shot it down because he said it would be too much work for him and he wanted the TDs to deal with it.
    That really pissed me off.

    yup, would have been simple, had a better percpetion, and the majority of active players would ahve happily paid it. If he was smart he would have kept half the money and put it towards administrative fees and developed the site to provide bonus add-ons for membership (extra $5 gets you some cool profile features; extra $10 gets you a commerative coin; extra $20 bucks gets you and IFPA shirt)

    Could have been so much easier and also done so much better.

    Putitng the extra hassle, time suck, and work on the TDs was a shitty attitude.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    From: $ 42.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 209.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Lit Frames
    £ 29.00
    Lighting - Led
    PinballToys
    From: $ 175.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    $ 79.00
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    From: $ 15.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Meph's Mods
    From: $ 22.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 7,499.00
    $ 229.99
    $ 8.50
    Lighting - Led
    Pinball Haus
    $ 28.00
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 84.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    € 95.00
    Lighting - Led
    FlipperLED
    From: $ 130.00
    $ 26.00
    Electronics
    Yorktown Parts and Equip
    $ 9,500.00
    $ 76.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 40.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Metal-Mods
    $ 218.00
    $ 25.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Flashinstinct
    From: € 2.00
    Electronics
    TheDudeMods
    There are 307 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 7.

    This topic is closed.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside