Northern California, CA
Quoted from Baiter:The premium model makes much sense... produce enough to meet the demand, no more, no less, and everyone is happy.
Gotta go a big +3 on that!
(Topic ID: 13368)
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:Baiter said:
The premium model makes much sense... produce enough to meet the demand, no more, no less, and everyone is happy.Gotta go a big +3 on that!
+4 
Dave Link and Borg sculpted the toys for X-Men, similar to AC/DC and Spider-Man they are custom and fresh.
I'm told the Pro does feel very well featured and a buyer of that model will be happy.
The LE will have some very special treats. 5 mechanical interactive ball toys. A spinning disc magnet like LIS and Twister makes a return. For example it's a disc/magnet in LE and just a magnet like whiplash in Pro.
Quoted from mnpinball:Dave Link and Borg sculpted the toys for X-Men, similar to AC/DC and Spider-Man they are custom and fresh.
I'm told the Pro does feel very well featured and a buyer of that model will be happy.
The LE will have some very special treats. 5 mechanical interactive ball toys. A spinning disc magnet like LIS and Twister makes a return. For example it's a disc/magnet in LE and just a magnet like whiplash in Pro.
Sounds interesting. Any word on what era they used for the art? 80's, 90's, newer? Thanks for the info J.
Transformers sold well in Pro and LE with no premiums.
750 total LEs and some dealers still have stock.
I think XMen will be similar to that the Pro will be a very full feel pin and sell well.
Quoted from thedarkknight77:There is no doubt in my mind that MNpinball is really Gary Stern in disguise. Come clean Gary, we forgive you for Rolling Stones, Iron Man & Avatar............You redeemed yourself with Tron & ACDC.
Forgive IM...Huh?
IM is WICKED !
But to each their own 
Quoted from AkumaZeto:Its widely believed Avengers might be the first LCD pin. Hell it would be sweet if ritchie was doing Resident Evil. After all he does not do cute
Now that would be awesome. But would they do Avengers right after X-men?
Quoted from J85M:although its a real shame Lonnie is writing the wizard modes can guess how those wizard modes will probably play out, shoot "A" 10 times, shoot "B" 10 times, shoot "C" 10 time..... See where I'm going with this. I say give the new guys freedom to shake things up abit and simply let Lonnie oversee them to learn how to write interesting rules. My faith is with the new guys on the rules hopefully some new ideas are allowed to be implemented and Lonnie doesn't over rule anything with shoot there 100 times.
+1. Bring back wizard modes and mini-wizard modes like SM. Or go back to doing a wizard mode like CV.
I enjoyed a lot of Lonnie's code aspects of TF common to both versions, particularly how the multiballs play out (not the lack of progression memory, but the logic behind how you have to shoot the jackpot shots, and the nuances between what side you play) and most of the modes. But the wizard modes.... meh. Sentinel Prime is a fun challenge to see how big a score you can rack up by being patient & taking risks with the 3x roving shot multiplier, and the satisfaction of having gotten that far. But the mode itself is just "Shoot every shot twice, in any order you want."
Then Cybertron is simply the same thing, but as a multiball, and REALLY spicing things up by ... wait for it .... shooting each shot THREE times. Ooooooohhhh.
Quoted from Snailman:JonM said:
although its a real shame Lonnie is writing the wizard modes can guess how those wizard modes will probably play out, shoot "A" 10 times, shoot "B" 10 times, shoot "C" 10 time..... See where I'm going with this. I say give the new guys freedom to shake things up abit and simply let Lonnie oversee them to learn how to write interesting rules. My faith is with the new guys on the rules hopefully some new ideas are allowed to be implemented and Lonnie doesn't over rule anything with shoot there 100 times.
+1. Bring back wizard modes and mini-wizard modes like SM. Or go back to doing a wizard mode like CV.
I enjoyed a lot of Lonnie's code aspects of TF common to both versions, particularly how the multiballs play out (not the lack of progression memory, but the logic behind how you have to shoot the jackpot shots, and the nuances between what side you play) and most of the modes. But the wizard modes.... meh. Sentinel Prime is a fun challenge to see how big a score you can rack up by being patient & taking risks with the 3x roving shot multiplier, and the satisfaction of having gotten that far. But the mode itself is just "Shoot every shot twice, in any order you want."
Then Cybertron is simply the same thing, but as a multiball, and REALLY spicing things up by ... wait for it .... shooting each shot THREE times. Ooooooohhhh.
Totally agree here. Lonnie has been writing the same game for 20+ years. Shoot this 4 times to light and then 6 more times to complete. Ugh. I want modes that are complex. Shoot these shots in this particular order and you better do it in this amount of time. C'mon Waison!!
Quoted from mummite:Snailman said:+1. Bring back wizard modes and mini-wizard modes like SM. Or go back to doing a wizard mode like CV.
Amen!
Yes please!
What is the word on announcement and pics on this thing, now? Been hearing "next week" for a month or more. Starting to think Gene is building this one.
Quoted from NimblePin:Lonnie has been writing the same game for 20+ years.
Lonnie at his desk...Attachments
TS_airplane_autopilot.jpg (61.6 KB, 0 downloads)
Priceless.
Quoted from Snailman:JonM said:
although its a real shame Lonnie is writing the wizard modes can guess how those wizard modes will probably play out, shoot "A" 10 times, shoot "B" 10 times, shoot "C" 10 time..... See where I'm going with this. I say give the new guys freedom to shake things up abit and simply let Lonnie oversee them to learn how to write interesting rules. My faith is with the new guys on the rules hopefully some new ideas are allowed to be implemented and Lonnie doesn't over rule anything with shoot there 100 times.
+1. Bring back wizard modes and mini-wizard modes like SM. Or go back to doing a wizard mode like CV.
I enjoyed a lot of Lonnie's code aspects of TF common to both versions, particularly how the multiballs play out (not the lack of progression memory, but the logic behind how you have to shoot the jackpot shots, and the nuances between what side you play) and most of the modes. But the wizard modes.... meh. Sentinel Prime is a fun challenge to see how big a score you can rack up by being patient & taking risks with the 3x roving shot multiplier, and the satisfaction of having gotten that far. But the mode itself is just "Shoot every shot twice, in any order you want."
Then Cybertron is simply the same thing, but as a multiball, and REALLY spicing things up by ... wait for it .... shooting each shot THREE times. Ooooooohhhh.
Well as "non-spicy" as SP and Cybertron are, there are not that many players that are going to see those modes in TF. I agree the satisfaction will be having achieved the goal.
In TF, people like you, me and a few others have posted about reaching the TF wizard modes. Many players are still griping about no multiball progression, so they are not even looking at the wizard modes thinking they are the same old thing.
I think it is clear players are not reaching those modes in TF with any regularity whatsoever. When most people reach deeper goals they post and share their excitement. We still hear about LITZ and RTU from new owners or someone reaching a goal for the first time. I think that is 100% great that older games can still generate such excitement. (I admit I still love touring the mansion after 20 years of doing so!)
SP and Cybertron are not, and will not be, a common occurrence in TF for the masses (even if they ever added multiball progression). They will be happy to reach those modes and I doubt they will feel it is "meh". I recall you were quite happy when you first reached it, right? I was genuinely happy for you.
After reaching a harder goal several times, we then see what the mode has to offer and devise and post strategies for a better wizard mode experience for us. For example I know you are using the roving 3x multiplier with 2x scoring for massive points, and I am sure you read about my Sentinel Prime/Optimus Prime multiball stack I stumbled into. I have not had the pleasure of reaching Cybertron, so you are ahead of me greatly. You told me that what I accomplished was a small taste of Cybertron. Nonetheless, I promise I will be thrilled when I reach Cybertron even though I know what is coming.
Making a super detailed wizard mode appeals to such a small fraction of the player pool. KEF had explained this many years ago when talking about SDMEWM and Valinor. So while the wizard modes may not be the most complex in TF, it is fine and exciting for what it is, and I don't think the masses will feel like it is the same mode for the past 20 years.
Quoted from pinballcorpse:Snailman said:
JonM said:
although its a real shame Lonnie is writing the wizard modes can guess how those wizard modes will probably play out, shoot "A" 10 times, shoot "B" 10 times, shoot "C" 10 time..... See where I'm going with this. I say give the new guys freedom to shake things up abit and simply let Lonnie oversee them to learn how to write interesting rules. My faith is with the new guys on the rules hopefully some new ideas are allowed to be implemented and Lonnie doesn't over rule anything with shoot there 100 times.
+1. Bring back wizard modes and mini-wizard modes like SM. Or go back to doing a wizard mode like CV.
I enjoyed a lot of Lonnie's code aspects of TF common to both versions, particularly how the multiballs play out (not the lack of progression memory, but the logic behind how you have to shoot the jackpot shots, and the nuances between what side you play) and most of the modes. But the wizard modes.... meh. Sentinel Prime is a fun challenge to see how big a score you can rack up by being patient & taking risks with the 3x roving shot multiplier, and the satisfaction of having gotten that far. But the mode itself is just "Shoot every shot twice, in any order you want."
Then Cybertron is simply the same thing, but as a multiball, and REALLY spicing things up by ... wait for it .... shooting each shot THREE times. Ooooooohhhh.
Well as "non-spicy" as SP and Cybertron are, there are not that many players that are going to see those modes in TF. I agree the satisfaction will be having achieved the goal.
In TF, people like you, me and a few others have posted about reaching the TF wizard modes. Many players are still griping about no multiball progression, so they are not even looking at the wizard modes thinking they are the same old thing.
I think it is clear players are not reaching those modes in TF with any regularity whatsoever. When most people reach deeper goals they post and share their excitement. We still hear about LITZ and RTU from new owners or someone reaching a goal for the first time. I think that is 100% great that older games can still generate such excitement. (I admit I still love touring the mansion after 20 years of doing so!)
SP and Cybertron are not, and will not be, a common occurrence in TF for the masses (even if they ever added multiball progression). They will be happy to reach those modes and I doubt they will feel it is "meh". I recall you were quite happy when you first reached it, right? I was genuinely happy for you.
After reaching a harder goal several times, we then see what the mode has to offer and devise and post strategies for a better wizard mode experience for us. For example I know you are using the roving 3x multiplier with 2x scoring for massive points, and I am sure you read about my Sentinel Prime/Optimus Prime multiball stack I stumbled into. I have not had the pleasure of reaching Cybertron, so you are ahead of me greatly. You told me that what I accomplished was a small taste of Cybertron. Nonetheless, I promise I will be thrilled when I reach Cybertron even though I know what is coming.
Making a super detailed wizard mode appeals to such a small fraction of the player pool. KEF had explained this many years ago when talking about SDMEWM and Valinor. So while the wizard modes may not be the most complex in TF, it is fine and exciting for what it is, and I don't think the masses will feel like it is the same mode for the past 20 years.
I guess for me, it is more about the regular modes and goals. I want them to be different. Not like Stern's IJ which Lonnie had a hand in. Too much shoot this over and over crap. TSPP is a great example of a game with many fun and differing modes. I've never seen the wizard mode and am still completely satisfied with each play. Different shots in different order to complete. Duffman is a like a Lonnie mode: Shoot right ramp 5 times, done. Homer's day and Bart's day are more complex. We need variety. I'm confident with the new guys working on this one, we will see something nice. Fingers crossed.
Quoted from jarjarisgod:HighProtein said:Zombies > M I B!
Everything > Zombies
I mean Zombieland or Resident Evil over MIB haha
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:Snailman said:JonM said:
although its a real shame Lonnie is writing the wizard modes can guess how those wizard modes will probably play out, shoot "A" 10 times, shoot "B" 10 times, shoot "C" 10 time..... See where I'm going with this. I say give the new guys freedom to shake things up abit and simply let Lonnie oversee them to learn how to write interesting rules. My faith is with the new guys on the rules hopefully some new ideas are allowed to be implemented and Lonnie doesn't over rule anything with shoot there 100 times.
+1. Bring back wizard modes and mini-wizard modes like SM. Or go back to doing a wizard mode like CV.
I enjoyed a lot of Lonnie's code aspects of TF common to both versions, particularly how the multiballs play out (not the lack of progression memory, but the logic behind how you have to shoot the jackpot shots, and the nuances between what side you play) and most of the modes. But the wizard modes.... meh. Sentinel Prime is a fun challenge to see how big a score you can rack up by being patient & taking risks with the 3x roving shot multiplier, and the satisfaction of having gotten that far. But the mode itself is just "Shoot every shot twice, in any order you want."
Then Cybertron is simply the same thing, but as a multiball, and REALLY spicing things up by ... wait for it .... shooting each shot THREE times. Ooooooohhhh.
Totally agree here. Lonnie has been writing the same game for 20+ years. Shoot this 4 times to light and then 6 more times to complete. Ugh. I want modes that are complex. Shoot these shots in this particular order and you better do it in this amount of time. C'mon Waison!!
Good point
Quoted from HighProtein:treborlicec said:
Snailman said:JonM said:
although its a real shame Lonnie is writing the wizard modes can guess how those wizard modes will probably play out, shoot "A" 10 times, shoot "B" 10 times, shoot "C" 10 time..... See where I'm going with this. I say give the new guys freedom to shake things up abit and simply let Lonnie oversee them to learn how to write interesting rules. My faith is with the new guys on the rules hopefully some new ideas are allowed to be implemented and Lonnie doesn't over rule anything with shoot there 100 times.
+1. Bring back wizard modes and mini-wizard modes like SM. Or go back to doing a wizard mode like CV.
I enjoyed a lot of Lonnie's code aspects of TF common to both versions, particularly how the multiballs play out (not the lack of progression memory, but the logic behind how you have to shoot the jackpot shots, and the nuances between what side you play) and most of the modes. But the wizard modes.... meh. Sentinel Prime is a fun challenge to see how big a score you can rack up by being patient & taking risks with the 3x roving shot multiplier, and the satisfaction of having gotten that far. But the mode itself is just "Shoot every shot twice, in any order you want."
Then Cybertron is simply the same thing, but as a multiball, and REALLY spicing things up by ... wait for it .... shooting each shot THREE times. Ooooooohhhh.
Totally agree here. Lonnie has been writing the same game for 20+ years. Shoot this 4 times to light and then 6 more times to complete. Ugh. I want modes that are complex. Shoot these shots in this particular order and you better do it in this amount of time. C'mon Waison!!
Good point
I think Waison, being about my age (33) and new to his exciting pinball career, has the potential to give us some pretty good software. He is a Transformers fan. I wonder what he would have come up with on that one. I don't believe he had much input above effects. If he is a fan of X-men, look out!
Quoted from mnpinball:Dave Link and Borg sculpted the toys for X-Men, similar to AC/DC and Spider-Man they are custom and fresh.
I'm told the Pro does feel very well featured and a buyer of that model will be happy.
The LE will have some very special treats. 5 mechanical interactive ball toys. A spinning disc magnet like LIS and Twister makes a return. For example it's a disc/magnet in LE and just a magnet like whiplash in Pro.
I assume this magnet/disc mechanism will be associated with our old friend Magneto.
1 week later
Quoted from pinballcorpse:Well as "non-spicy" as SP and Cybertron are, there are not that many players that are going to see those modes in TF. I agree the satisfaction will be having achieved the goal.
In TF, people like you, me and a few others have posted about reaching the TF wizard modes. Many players are still griping about no multiball progression, so they are not even looking at the wizard modes thinking they are the same old thing.
I think it is clear players are not reaching those modes in TF with any regularity whatsoever. When most people reach deeper goals they post and share their excitement. We still hear about LITZ and RTU from new owners or someone reaching a goal for the first time. I think that is 100% great that older games can still generate such excitement. (I admit I still love touring the mansion after 20 years of doing so!)
SP and Cybertron are not, and will not be, a common occurrence in TF for the masses (even if they ever added multiball progression). They will be happy to reach those modes and I doubt they will feel it is "meh". I recall you were quite happy when you first reached it, right? I was genuinely happy for you.
After reaching a harder goal several times, we then see what the mode has to offer and devise and post strategies for a better wizard mode experience for us. For example I know you are using the roving 3x multiplier with 2x scoring for massive points, and I am sure you read about my Sentinel Prime/Optimus Prime multiball stack I stumbled into. I have not had the pleasure of reaching Cybertron, so you are ahead of me greatly. You told me that what I accomplished was a small taste of Cybertron. Nonetheless, I promise I will be thrilled when I reach Cybertron even though I know what is coming.
Making a super detailed wizard mode appeals to such a small fraction of the player pool. KEF had explained this many years ago when talking about SDMEWM and Valinor. So while the wizard modes may not be the most complex in TF, it is fine and exciting for what it is, and I don't think the masses will feel like it is the same mode for the past 20 years.
Excellent point that many people are not reaching -- and w/o multiball progress memory, may never reach -- SP (let alone Cybertron, which I've still only managed to reach twice, even with many, many additional attempts to do so). So there isn't a large amount of commentary on the TF wizard modes themselves. And I agree with yours and KEF's assessment that detailed wizard modes only appeal to a fraction of the player pool. However, with pinball's current state of being less on route and more in-home, I'd say that fraction of the player pool is larger than it used to be.
A big part of modern pinball enjoyment for me is reaching, and hopefully eventually defeating, the wizard mode. Indeed, the accomplishment of finally getting there and the journey it took to get there is pure pinball bliss. And the more difficult it is to achieve, the bigger the satisfaction in having gotten there.
But I won't give the wizard mode a pass on critiquing its shortcomings, or refrain from offering praise, when due, simply because it's difficult to reach or many people aren't reaching it at all. It's bittersweet to have the bliss tempered by a wiz mode that either isn't that exciting. If you don't arrive at SP at the tail end of a good ball that allowed you jack up the shot multipliers to the 3x rover, then there is very little strategy/thinking required for it, and no variety to it at all. SP essentially represents a less difficult version of Ratchet (no timer, and you can collect a shot for the 2nd time prior to having completed one full set of shots). And I'm one of the few that enjoys the Ratchet mode on its own -- for the challenge of shooting the blinking orange arrow in sequence to get double value base jackpots on every shot.
Lonnie had already exhausted pretty much every permutation (and admirably, too) of hitting the major shots in the mode and multiball rules. I would have liked a wizard mode that had stages (ala SM or CV), or something that drew its point value from how you played each mode leading up to the mini-wizard (ala LOTR's TABA), or perhaps a disappearing shot hurry-up (ala JM's Powerdown) or at least had all the lights/dots/flippers/coils go crazy when you do beat TF's SP (ala LOTR's DTR or WH2O vacation jackpot). All you get is a cute little animation of the autobots or decepticons zooming by (although I do like seeing the Dinobot run across the screen!)
Oh, and this gripe isn't just TF: I have the same gripe with Tron's Portal. I'm still thrilled that I actually got there, and holy #$@#%! is it challenging to not just beat it, but even do marginally well at it. But I'm disappointed with its lack of creativity, stages, display/mechanical "celebration" when you do beat it, etc. Portal is at least, by far, the most difficult "mode" in the game. I can't say the same for TF's Cybertron. That title goes to Optimus mb when played as an autobot.
3 weeks later
Quoted from mnpinball:Thanks peeps.
I know it has 3 flippers, kind of a reverse Tron layout. 2 ramps Pro, 2 1/2 ramps LE.
Avengers is my thoughts as the info, hints, intel whatever you call it I've got over the last 5 months. People say Stern doesn't release games at the time of a movie, BUT being Avengers I think this may be different. I say they use the Blu-Ray footage from Captain America, Iron Man 2, and Thor, PLUS all the Avengers trailers footage. So there is plenty to work from on this title. (my opinion on this) I hope it's got that MF'r Sam Jackson voiceovers in it
MIB is a rumor I know but I'm just not quite sold on that as the next title. Resident Evil may be down the line but not now.
The Pro is suppose to get ready to build end of April for overseas like the normal cycle of games production. I do know the official announcement will be in mid April or so.
DMD game, no LCD. I know for fact it is comic book related. So take that to the bank.
I'm bumping this 2 month old post as I wanted to give some props to MNPinball. It wasn't Avengers (but he never said that he was sure it was either), but he was spot on regarding the 3 flippers and a reverse Tron layout, as well as "2 1/2 ramps" on the LE. He also nailed the fact that it was comic book based.
Nicely done. 
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