(Topic ID: 191857)

Borg or Ritchie - who's the best!

By MacLean

6 years ago


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  • 146 posts
  • 66 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by iceman44
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    There are 146 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
    #1 6 years ago

    This question comes up a lot with my pin buddies. John Borg & Steve Ritchie are both stand out skilled designers, but seriously, if there was an award for "Best Designer" who would it go to?

    #2 6 years ago

    Add a poll....

    39
    #3 6 years ago

    Pat Lawlor........

    #4 6 years ago

    borg, but add a poll. But that's only between those two. My vote is on Ed Krynski FTW.

    #5 6 years ago

    Dennis Nordman is the most diverse designer and by far my favorite. So neither of those even though they both are great.

    #6 6 years ago
    Quoted from AUKraut:

    Pat Lawlor........

    Banzai Run is an awesome game!

    #7 6 years ago

    Borg, and would he had done ST we would have a Borg Cube bash toy

    16
    #8 6 years ago

    John Trudeau, he isn't afraid to take risks. Some of his designs fall short but at least he isn't copying someone else's ideas or himself every single time.

    If I had to pick between the two listed I would pick Borg. I know I'm in the minority but I have found that I really don't care for most of Richie's games.

    #9 6 years ago

    Apples and Oranges. Steve Ritchie is the KING OF FLOW, there is none higher, sucker designers, call him SIRE.

    #10 6 years ago
    Quoted from HarryReimer:

    Apples and Oranges. Steve Ritchie is the KING OF FLOW, there is none higher, sucker designers, call him SIRE.

    He is the king of flow ... however, IMHO Borg's list of accomplishments slightly exceed that of Steve's. I think just the fact that Borg has TWD, MET, AS, & Tron on his resume speaks volumes.

    For me, Borg is my hero & his creative skills has brought me many hours of awesomeness!

    #11 6 years ago

    Already been covered:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/who-are-your-favorite-pinball-designers-multiple-choices

    list was missing Krynski and others though...Pinside polls are limited to 9 choice max.

    #12 6 years ago

    Borg's creativity is the best ever, but Ritchie's perfect gameplay kills it for me. So Ritchie would be the winner for me.

    #13 6 years ago

    Borg for the win as the machine overall

    #14 6 years ago

    I'd say Ritchie, but it's not a very fair comparison when it's obvious he has the clout to do things however he wants within reasonable limits and doesn't have half the restrictions John Borg does. When a designer is allowed to have fun it shows in his work, and you can tell that John Borg was stuck with the arse-end of the design budgets for years and his briefs amounted to, "See what Steve's doing over there? Do that, but cheaper and with shit ball times." Nobody can operate at their peak under a cloud like that, and while John is able to set that aside more of late (check the recent designs of his that reuse good ideas that weren't in a position to shine the first time), I feel you really need to go back to his Data East period - GnR and TFTC especially - to see the love of what he was doing shine through the most.

    #15 6 years ago

    For me, they both have great games and lackluster games, and probably at a similar percentage. Prior to 1994, it is 100% Ritchie for me. Starting in 94 though, it is fairly even, and when I look at games that I really like from 1994 (GnR) until now, the common element that I see in games from both designers is Lyman.

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from MacLean:

    He is the king of flow ... however, IMHO Borg's list of accomplishments slightly exceed that of Steve's. I think just the fact that Borg has TWD, MET, AS, & Tron on his resume speaks volumes.
    For me, Borg is my hero & his creative skills has brought me many hours of awesomeness!

    *cough* IRON MAN *cough*

    #17 6 years ago

    Steve Kordek

    #18 6 years ago

    Both best for different reasons.

    #19 6 years ago
    Quoted from MacLean:

    if there was an award for "Best Designer" who would it go to?

    Neither of those EDIT: but SR easily. So much of Borg's early work was PL redesigns...I'll be interested it his layouts start looking like DI after this

    -4
    #20 6 years ago

    Borg cause he hasn't called his fans a disease or whatever negative term Ritchie used for us pinheads.

    #21 6 years ago

    Neither would be the best, but Ritchie is superior.

    I think if Brian Eddy has more in his portfolio, he could challenge. For modern pinball, however, I have to say that Pat Lawlor wins. He just has such a huge variety of designs and really knows how to make a game feel great, regardless of theme or rule set. Kordek, Williams, and plenty of other classic designers pioneered things that have been standards for decades, however.

    I also want to give a big nod to Trudeau who has been designing for a very long time and has many unique games. Trudeau seems immune to the "recycle bug" that plagues many other modern designers, and I'm grateful that he's still putting stuff out.

    #22 6 years ago
    Quoted from jar155:

    Neither would be the best, but Ritchie is superior.
    I think if Brian Eddy has more in his portfolio, he could challenge.

    I agree, MMr is simply outstanding!

    #23 6 years ago

    In terms of Pf design Lawler is a genius, maybe because he made pins without the BOM hanging over his head. Borg is next in line but maybe could have tied Pat for first place if it wasn't for Stern's legendary cheapness. Ritchie's designs are already in the annals of pinball history: multi-ball, auto save, background music, lane change bonus, flashers, faceted inserts, magnet save, upper pfs, magnet accelerators, video mode ...etc. Lately, his designs haven't been huge, (sans AC/DC). But depending to who you speak to he's always going to be in the top 1-3.

    #24 6 years ago

    They are both awesome, Borg can certainly do more with less, he has made some killer games with tight budgets and restraints on him, would love to see a game designed by them in partnership a Ritchie/Borg hybrid

    17
    #25 6 years ago
    Quoted from mesmashu:

    Borg cause he hasn't called his fans a disease or whatever negative term Ritchie used for us pinheads.

    And this is how stupid rumors get started and gain traction. He didn't call his fans a disease. He called Pinside a disease. And if you don't think Pinside can be a toxic overwhelmingly negative place at times you haven't been here long.

    #26 6 years ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    They are both awesome, Borg can certainly do more with less, he has made some killer games with tight budgets and restraints on him, would love to see a game designed by them in partnership a Ritchie/Borg hybrid

    yes, a Borg/Ritchie combo collaboration would be killer! Kinda like mixing Getaway+Walking Dead.

    #27 6 years ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    He called Pinside a disease.

    Yes, that comment by Ritchie was simply his reaction to "negative" remarks made after the initial pics of his new Star Wars playfield. It got blown way out of proportion. He was offended I'm sure. The comments were brutal.

    #28 6 years ago

    Whenever we have this debate, I am glad we don't have to choose.

    I always think about Flash, Firepower, Black Knight, and High Speed. Ground breaking stuff when the industry had a ton of competition including video arcades.

    Not mentioned but PL had a huge run from Banzai through TZ but I haven't really grooved on his stuff since. But lots of great layouts.

    Funny that Borg's Star Wars is my favorite version so far but about to get displaced. I don't know AS enough to say but thank god for TRON through TWD. I know IM but TRON pulled us out of that nosedive from WOF to BBH.

    Don't forget if you had to average them out Eddy wins with Shadow, AFM, and MM. Not bad for a software guy. Does he get credit for 5 awesome games with MMR and AFMR?

    No good answer is there?

    #29 6 years ago

    How times have changed - back in the 90's, Ritchie and Borg wouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence.

    Personally I am not a big Borg fan since he basically copies Lawlor's designs poorly. Just my opinion.

    #30 6 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Personally I am not a big Borg fan since he basically copies Lawlor's designs poorly. Just my opinion.

    He does. I have two of his games (Tron and Iron Man). Iron Man is a bit of a Ritchie feel and Tron is totally a Lawlor rip. The biggest issue I have with Borg is that he is the king of recycling ideas and mechs. He really needs to do something different in the future. There's a reason people often refer to him as the Taco Bell of designers (4 ingredients in different orders). You're satisfied with what he puts together, but there's no doubt he's playing it safe each time he goes out.

    #31 6 years ago

    Borg for me

    #32 6 years ago

    Borgs games have gotten better since SR has returned to Stern. Coincidence?

    #33 6 years ago

    It's a relative question.

    Best of Borg and Ritchie? I'd go with Ritchie...

    Best ever? Pat Lawlor by a mile.

    It's also relative to era. Ted Zale was designing machines that were light years ahead of Kordek, Krynski and his other contemporaries... and laid the groundwork for all those who came after him, even beyond those who studied directly under his tutelage (Patla & Kmiec).

    #34 6 years ago
    Quoted from drsfmd:

    Ted Zale was designing machines that were light years ahead of Kordek, Krynski and his other contemporaries..

    Same could be said about Harry Williams or Harry Mabs.

    #35 6 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Same could be said about Harry Williams or Harry Mabs.

    I'd have to say, why did none of these pioneers think of implementing the ramp?

    #36 6 years ago
    Quoted from MacLean:

    Borg or Ritchie - who's the best!

    Who's on first!

    (What's on second and I Don't Know's on third.)

    #37 6 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Same could be said about Harry Williams or Harry Mabs.

    Harry Mabs is way too often forgotten.

    #38 6 years ago

    Borg Sterns from 2010+ Iron Man, Big Buck Hunter, Avatar, Tron, Metallica, X-men, Walking Dead, Kiss, Aerosmith
    http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=borg&sortby=name&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick

    Ritchie Sterns from 2010+ ACDC, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, Star Wars
    http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=steve+ritchie&sortby=name&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick

    #39 6 years ago
    Quoted from KozMckPinball:

    I'd have to say, why did none of these pioneers think of implementing the ramp?

    Harry Williams "Skyway" from 1953.

    And to be fair to Kordek, it was he that first put a single pair of flippers at the bottom of the playfield and was the first to use a true drop target that other manufacturers would not use for about another decade except on Keeney's Arrowhead.

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    #40 6 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    Tron,....X-men....Kiss....Aerosmith

    Yeah that sounds aboot right

    #41 6 years ago

    As for Harry Mabs, he was the first to put flippers on a game and Williams followed it up with the first pop bumper. Two things we kind of take for granted now along with all the other innovations these two gentlemen came up with.

    #42 6 years ago

    Some one mentioned ramps. The Marble Prince from 1932. And if you want subways, look no further than any game with a gobble hole.

    image-7 (1) (resized).jpgimage-7 (1) (resized).jpg

    #43 6 years ago

    I like all the designers!

    #44 6 years ago

    My vote is for Borg being the best since the release of Iron Man. Richie's still a great designer and has his winning style, but Borg has upped his design game and Richie seems to be keeping is safe lately. Borg has also historically had less time to develop his designs than Richie, though that seems to have leveled out lately. I still fault Borg for X-Men though.

    #45 6 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    Borg Sterns from 2010+ Iron Man, Big Buck Hunter, Avatar, Tron, Metallica, X-men, Walking Dead, Kiss, Aerosmith
    http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=borg&sortby=name&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick
    Ritchie Sterns from 2010+ ACDC, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, Star Wars
    http://www.ipdb.org/search.pl?any=steve+ritchie&sortby=name&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick

    6 of those Borg games were programmed by Lyman Sheats.

    And only 1 for Ritchie.

    Id like to see Lyman teaming up with either of these designers more often and hope stern puts an end to having him be the fall guy for turd buckets, i.e. BM66. Would love another Borg/Sheats game followed by another Ritchie/Sheats game.

    Bottom line...Lyman Sheats gets my vote

    But as far as pure design; steve gets my vote...speed, flow, ball returns are huge in my book and keep the last ability feel to me personally rather than bash toys and magnets.

    #46 6 years ago
    Quoted from Eskaybee:

    6 of those Borg games were programmed by Lyman Sheats.
    And only 1 for Ritchie.
    Id like to see Lyman teaming up with either of these designers

    I agree, Sheats is the man when it comes to programming, just look at MMr, it's perfection under glass!

    Ritchie is definitely the best at "risk/reward" shots but Borg games just feel so smooth & complete.

    *I'd like to see Borg team up with Sheats, Lonnie & Kyzivat again as they did with MET.
    IMO, MET is a stand-out creative masterpiece. Simply flawless in every possible way.

    #47 6 years ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    And this is how stupid rumors get started and gain traction. He didn't call his fans a disease. He called Pinside a disease. And if you don't think Pinside can be a toxic overwhelmingly negative place at times you haven't been here long.

    OK you're right, he called Pinside a disease. Pinside, a place where his fans conglomerate. So indirectly lumping all of Pinside to the word disease. Poor form on his part and definitely not a stupid rumor.

    Yes Pinsiders call it like they see it. I don't think that's a bad thing. You want the truth or sugar coated BS?

    Ghost Buster reveal was awesome. Pinside gave them praise. It works both ways.

    #48 6 years ago

    Because I love BBH I would say Borg. But not my favourite designer. Lawlor all the way.

    #49 6 years ago

    They are both awesome. There are times im in the mood for Steves games and there are other times when id rather play Borg games. Flip a coin.

    #50 6 years ago

    For the "Stern Years" (2010-Current) I've got to go with Borg. Overall all though the win goes to SR.

    There are 146 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.

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