(Topic ID: 163782)

BoP: Father and Son's First Restoration [COMPLETE]


By jsa

3 years ago



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  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by MajorHavoc
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There are 450 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 9.
#251 3 years ago
Quoted from eskedran:

I was wondering if I could sneak in and hijack your thread to ask a quick clarifying question...(I have enjoyed every moment of your restoration and appreciate all of your posts...I have learned so much!!!)
I just got a replacement BOP playfield...mmm...so pretty!!! I have been reading thread after thread to be prepared for swapping it in this winter, and have a question that was never directly answered.
I read somewhere that you need to predrill before screwing into the new playfield so that you don't risk damaging the playfield or cracking the clearcoat.
In determining the predrilling size for the bit, do I just go with one a bit under the shaft diameter of the screw, like I would with normal predrilling and go as deep as the screw is...or do I also need to come back and drill just barely through the clearcoat with a larger bit that will allow for the width of the shaft and threads? I don't know if the minor extra width of the screw threads is enough to crack the clear.
I'm just terrified to risk throwing away that much cash on a silly mistake.
Thanks in advance for any advice (and for letting me sneak in my question!!!)

Some good advise from lb1. Also I've heard it's a good thing to drill out the clear under the T nut fittings so they are flush with the playfield and the barbs bite into the wood not the clear, same for the pop bumper nails. Maybe someone who has done this can elaborate. kruzeman recommends this.

#252 3 years ago

I did it from the top. You just need to go through the top layer of clear that prevents the post from going through. If you do it from the bottom, you may remove a tiny bit of addition wood and loosen the fit, and also, you could push out clear and create some separation.

I said you needed to do posts only, but I forgot about the T-nuts that sit on top, if there are any, and possibly the pop bumpers fin screws. It's really easy if you have sharp bits.

#253 3 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Some good advise from lb1. Also I've heard it's a good thing to drill out the clear under the T nut fittings so they are flush with the playfield and the barbs bite into the wood not the clear, same for the pop bumper nails. Maybe someone who has done this can elaborate. kruzeman recommends this.

Great points. Personally, I did not do the T-nut fitting you describe, and I would not do it myself by fear of removing too much.

I first tried to have the T-nuts teeth go back into the existing holes but I found it hard because each the used T-nut teeth are bent differently. I also bent a few teeth back to their positions when new and it helped some but it's a pain. So in the end, I left the clear, just drilled so the sunk part of the T-nut could go through, and re-used the old T-nuts.

#254 3 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

Great points. Personally, I did not do the T-nut fitting you describe, and I would not do it myself by fear of removing too much.
I first tried to have the T-nuts teeth go back into the existing holes but I found it hard because each the used T-nut teeth are bent differently. I also bent a few teeth back to their positions when new and it helped some but it's a pain. So in the end, I left the clear, just drilled so the sunk part of the T-nut could go through, and re-used the old T-nuts.

My lord... Our existing playfield LITERALLY has a dry wall screw instead of a post in one spot. We have zero confidence the posts and various other bits are in the right places. We'll use Chris Hutchins' photos as best we can but there are definitely some missing pieces we'll need to figure out as we get there. At least our new playfield won't have any holes that aren't supposed to be there.

I have decent drill bits but I'll probably get some newer ones with brad points that will help with my accuracy.

#255 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Our existing playfield LITERALLY has a dry wall screw instead of a post in one spot

I've seen that before. Some peoples kids.

#256 3 years ago

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#257 2 years ago

Time for an update!

We decided it was time we installed the cabinet protectors and leg brackets. You may remember, my son designed a leg bracket adapter plate using a 3D printer and industrial grade ABS plastic. The stuff is harder than wood and allowed us to fit the newer style leg brackets into the corners of our BoP which didn't quite fit properly.

Here's the bracket before it was attached:

IMG_3591 (resized).JPG

Here is the new style leg bracket with the adapter plate:

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We then screwed in both bolts through the outer cabinet protectors:

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This affixed the cabinet protector, leg bracket adapter and leg brackets in the precisely correct location with the bolts tight. (Note, we hadn't scored the decal yet, so we didn't crank on it!)

Next, of course, we scored the decal around the outer edge of the cabinet protector with an Xacto knife:

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We also wanted to make sure the brackets never moved, so we pre-drilled pilot holes in the leg bracket holes (note the poor man's stop on the drill so we didn't drill too deep):

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Then we added the hex washer head wood screws. We used hex washer head #8 at 5/8" long, which would end up penetrating the cabinet sides about half depth. Unfortunately, all I could find for the screws are slotted in 5/8" #8, but they look pretty good:

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After drilling some pilot holes where the cabinet protector gets screwed down, we then remove the bolts and cabinet protectors revealing the scored decal:

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Next, we CAREFULLY remove the decal from the cabinet where we scored. I find it interesting, the purple latex paint tended to stick to the decal, leaving behind the Kilz Original primer in places:

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Next, we put the cabinet protector back on, bolt it on again to ensure the protector is in the precise same location, and screw them in:

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That leaves us with a permanent cabinet protector that won't stretch any decals over time, even if someone over aggressively cranks down on the bolts!

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I love these permanent protectors, they really clean up the corners. I'm trying to decide if next up is the ground braid in the cabinet (which may require removing the leg brackets to sandwich them between the bracket and the adapter plate) or installing cabinet hardware. My photos of the tear down of the cabinet aren't helping me figure out what to do with this braid!

#258 2 years ago

Looks like you'll need the longer leg bolts for sure.

#259 2 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Looks like you'll need the longer leg bolts for sure.

Well, they fit so far, though they don't extend beyond the brackets, which is probably ok. I ordered new chrome bolts so we'll see how they look. If they are short I can always grab new ones.

#260 2 years ago

While I'm getting ready to start attaching the ground braid on the backbox (figure I'll start there where I have better photos), I decided to make some reproductions of the labels. FYI, I'm using the Xyron Creative Station Lite 5" to make laminated versions of the stickers. You can find info on those here:

https://www.xyron.com/en-us/products/creative-station/5--creative-station/xyron-creative-station-lite--5in_624740/

I found these reproductions on Inkochnito's site: http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/

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#261 2 years ago

What does everyone use for their lockdown bar and playfield stand handle? I suspect Williams used heat shrink, but I don't have an intact enough piece that isn't so brittle I can figure it out.

#262 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

What does everyone use for their lockdown bar and playfield stand handle? I suspect Williams used heat shrink, but I don't have an intact enough piece that isn't so brittle I can figure it out.

I've used red Plastic Dip and dip them a couple of times, letting the first dip dry for a couple day before doing it again. Or you could use yellow. It works great.

#263 2 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

I've used red Plastic Dip and dip them a couple of times, letting the first dip dry for a couple day before doing it again. Or you could use yellow. It works great.

I second this. Dip two or three times.

#264 2 years ago

Finished up the new lock bar... The old one was rusted and was going to be a nightmare to clean and tighten up. I purchased a new one from Mantis Amusements and added the laminate stickers. (Thanks for the idea, Bryan.)

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#265 2 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

I second this. Dip two or three times.

Yeah I wanted mine nice and padded so I did it 4 times.

#266 2 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Yeah I wanted mine nice and padded so I did it 4 times.

Dip is on it's way to me. I didn't even know this substance existed until you guys told me about it. Frankly, this entire restoration has been insanely enlightening about the sorts of things out there to help with projects like these.

Another thought while we're working on putting the cab together; Has anyone had any success restoring the rubber rollers with rubber rejuvinators? I know I used to use these to bring printers back to life (allow the rollers to grab the paper once they get dull), but I'm not sure that's what you're trying to achieve with the rollers. They are mostly in good shape (not shrunken or cracked), but dried out and my instinct says I should clean them properly then use one of these restorers. Here's a photo of them covered with filth:

IMG_2929 (resized).JPG

#267 2 years ago

I've read where some guys use soap and water, let dry and apply leather conditioner. These are a highly needed item for someone to reproduce imo. Another Pinside member has contacted Scott at pinball life to see if they can get these available. Let's hope and see what comes of it.

#268 2 years ago

Leather cleaners and conditioners have an amazing affect on neoprene rubber.
I use it on my RV tire sidewalls to keep them from cracking.
The tires are like new 10 years in....

Lexol is a pretty easy to get line of products available at Wal-Mart.

#269 2 years ago

It's starting to get real. We got acquainted today with ground braid and pneumatic staple guns. My son is disappointed that the stapler has so little recoil. What have I done?

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#270 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Dip is on it's way to me. I didn't even know this substance existed until you guys told me about it. Frankly, this entire restoration has been insanely enlightening about the sorts of things out there to help with projects like these.
Another thought while we're working on putting the cab together; Has anyone had any success restoring the rubber rollers with rubber rejuvinators? I know I used to use these to bring printers back to life (allow the rollers to grab the paper once they get dull), but I'm not sure that's what you're trying to achieve with the rollers. They are mostly in good shape (not shrunken or cracked), but dried out and my instinct says I should clean them properly then use one of these restorers. Here's a photo of them covered with filth:

I was a printer for 18 years, Feeder on 72 inch, 5 color Harris and Feeder/Second Pressman on a 52 inch, 7 color Roto.

#271 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Has anyone had any success restoring the rubber rollers with rubber rejuvinators?

I just took mine out while restoring and honestly just used the same product that cleans up pinball rubbers amazingly--I use Windex Multisurface (buy it at Home Depot). Eats the grease and grime off of rubbers, did the same for these. Mine looked just like yours and came out very nice. Just need to take the lock washers off of one side of the metal frame and slide them off. I soaked mine for 20 mins or so. Most of the gunk from these comes from inside the rollers and and edges where they chafe on the frame. Once that is gone, and cleaned up, you should be good for years.

Skill shot Rollers (resized).jpg

#272 2 years ago

Beautiful work. It's going to be amazing!

#273 2 years ago
Quoted from Fourbyracer:

I just took mine out while restoring and honestly just used the same product that cleans up pinball rubbers amazingly--I use Windex Multisurface (buy it at Home Depot).

Windex Multisurface cleans great, but it doesn't actually condition the rubber. I think it may actually dry it further. I'd definitely still condition it.

#274 2 years ago

We freshened up the transformer:

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Then hit it with a scotch-brite pad and gave it a coat of heat-resistant paint:

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As we lay in the ground braid, my son adds the elements which go over it:

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We've developed our own style with the braid. We like to create tributaries and fold the braid over a main trunk, staple it in place, and add some solder to make sure everything is conducting well.

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Overall, some pretty good progress!

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Here's a question for all of you wise folk. I've replaced my lockdown bar receiver with a new one, and the wood screw holes don't precisely match up with the old ones. So, before I put new holes in the cabinet and fix it in place (the bolts fit perfectly), should I get the side cabinet rails on first to make sure the lockdown bar fits properly? I have this fear I'll fix the receiver in place and then have to move it.

For that matter, any advice on how to put those rails back on? I have two-sided tape... I just roll it out and press it in place? It seems a bit of a dance since the flipper buttons and bolt need to go through it as well.

Also, anyone happen to know if the wood screws holding the back slide channel are #6 or #8? My photos are useless.

#275 2 years ago

Looking good! Does the transformer need to be high temp paint?

#276 2 years ago

Probably not. Still, why not?

#277 2 years ago

I put the tape on the rails and put the front bolt through the rail and then through the cab. That centers it correctly lengthwise.

#278 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

should I get the side cabinet rails on first to make sure the lockdown bar fits properly?

I have just recently finished a project JD build and as long as the lockdown ratchet bar is central to the cab (even amount of gap between either end of the ratchet bar and the inside of the cab) you should have no worries at all. I swapped cabs for the JD build and my original machine had always had about an extra 1/8-1/16th inch of lockdown bar hanging out on the left hand side. When i started the swap i realised that the ratchet bar had been screwed on too far to the left. On the machine in question there was some leeway with the coin door bolts i might add so i could shuffle it to the right and sort the problem.

#279 2 years ago

Finished up most of the cabinet today. We are pretty excited to marry the backbox back on the main cabinet!

IMG_3700 (resized).JPG

I'm not going to lie, that chrome looks pretty amazing. Great work from Ron at Pinball Plating and More:

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The inside is ready for wiring harnesses. My old coin door is beyond restoration, the crowbar bent it in a way that I couldn't reverse. Instead I have a new one, but it doesn't have a high voltage switch like the original does. Have any of you re-installed it using a bracket of some kind?

IMG_3706 (resized).JPG

Final question for folks who have restored games of this vintage... My original FCC sticker on the back was faded to the point where the date was no longer visible. Here's a shot of the original:

IMG_2274 (resized).JPG

I figured out the manufacture date from stamps on the playfield, and I worked up a reproduction of the sticker. My first instinct was to list the date as MAR 25 1991, then I took at look at Chris Hutchins' work and he uses a date code like "91255." Here's examples of both formats:

IMG_3710 (resized).JPG

Do any of you know what the original format looked like for the date?

#280 2 years ago

Looking really nice.

By high voltage switch/bracket, are you referring to the switch/plate that pushes against the white switch(es) that is installed inside the cabinet to the left of the door and registers when the door is opened?

#281 2 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

Looking really nice.
By high voltage switch/bracket, are you referring to the switch/plate that pushes against the white switch(es) that is installed inside the cabinet to the left of the door and registers when the door is opened?

Yes. On my original BoP coin door, the switch is integrated into the door, as in this photo:

IMG_3711 (resized).JPG

There doesn't appear to be any integration options on replacement doors. However, there are holes in the door where you can mount a bracket that triggers a switch (or two) that would be mounted inside the cabinet.

#282 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Yes. On my original BoP coin door, the switch is integrated into the door, as in this photo:

There doesn't appear to be any integration options on replacement doors. However, there are holes in the door where you can mount a bracket that triggers a switch (or two) that would be mounted inside the cabinet.

Did you get the newer modern door that has the plate on it to actuate the cabinet mounted switch?
If so you will have to get the bracket and switch and then rewire it to the newer location.
Unless of course you can get the original style door.

#283 2 years ago

You and your son should be very proud. I've done a few (not BoP) machines and you both should really take pride in what you've done here. The cabinet is fantastic and what a great project for a father and son. I wish my dad was into this stuff when I was young!

#284 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Yes. On my original BoP coin door, the switch is integrated into the door, as in this photo:

There doesn't appear to be any integration options on replacement doors. However, there are holes in the door where you can mount a bracket that triggers a switch (or two) that would be mounted inside the cabinet.

3D printing might well be your best choice here to make a bracket that attaches to the inside left of the cabinet and positions the switch where it needs to be.

#286 2 years ago

This is the type of bracket I have in my TZ but the set up is a bit different. There is a L-shaped bracket soldered to the door that pushed the switch button, which is parallel to the coin door (see http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/album371/173_G?full=1 though there the bracket only has one hole). You could still use this bracket, which has the correct rectangular hole size, but you would need to mount it differently.

#287 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Did you get the newer modern door that has the plate on it to actuate the cabinet mounted switch?
If so you will have to get the bracket and switch and then rewire it to the newer location.
Unless of course you can get the original style door.

We purchased the modern door. We like it better also for other reasons (we plan on installing the PinPac coin door headphone jack mod, we use it quite a bit on our other pinball machine). The one you see in the previous photo was the old door, which is beyond restoration, unfortunately.

Quoted from lb1:

You could still use this bracket, which has the correct rectangular hole size, but you would need to mount it differently.

The modern coin doors have two holes designed for this:

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/27-4921

We shouldn't need to weld it on. It screws into the inside edge of the swinging door and presses a properly mounted switch when closed. The challenge is how to mount the switch on the inside, which I've seen various brackets (of various sizes) designed to hold one or two switches. Anyone know where Chris got that bracket?

Quoted from lb1:

3D printing might well be your best choice here to make a bracket that attaches to the inside left of the cabinet and positions the switch where it needs to be.

That is a fantastic idea. I'll put my son on the case!!

Quoted from dmacy:

You and your son should be very proud. I've done a few (not BoP) machines and you both should really take pride in what you've done here. The cabinet is fantastic and what a great project for a father and son. I wish my dad was into this stuff when I was young!

Thanks! He's super into the idea that this is the outcome of our combined strength. I can't be happier about it. He's a bit of a perfectionist though (notices every tiny little detail that is even microscopically off) but as a result, well, you can see the result! This is great exposure also for me, because honestly, while I was super into caring and modding my ToM, I had NO idea how all of this stuff really was put together in the first place until now. It gives me a whole new appreciation of pinball.

Now, if I could only play the game better, I'd probably join the SF Pinball League...Having two in the house will help immensely.

#288 2 years ago

Hot Damn this is looking good! Great Job Dad & Son!

#289 2 years ago

We reinstalled the PCBs over the weekend, and it got me to thinking; I'd like to get the RAM replaced with NVRAM and lose the battery holders. I can do this with the BoP MPU, right? Also, while I'm at it, I'm curious about moving to ROM revision L-8, which I hear introduces some bug fixes that could be interesting, though requires re-wiring the jumper...Also I may burn myself the newer sound ROMs if I can find them. Does anyone have any experience with this with BoP?

I hate doing board work on the MPU myself. Last time I tried to do a NVRAM upgrade I fried my MPU board. Anyone have any recommendations on folks who could do both that and the W1 jumper for me and avoid a disaster? I've heard mention of Coin Op Cauldron before but I'm not sure if this is their specialty.

#290 2 years ago

Clive only installs remote battery holders; no nvram.

#291 2 years ago

Borygard does this. He can get everything done that you are looking for! PM him and he will get ahold of you.

#292 2 years ago

You may want to check with Silver Ball Amusement in Novato, CA. Tony did some repairs on a HS board for me a while back. He may be able to do this for you.

#294 2 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

Borygard is here on Pinside or at:
http://lockwhenlit.com/

PM sent. Thanks guys.

-1
#295 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

We reinstalled the PCBs over the weekend, and it got me to thinking; I'd like to get the RAM replaced with NVRAM and lose the battery holders. I can do this with the BoP MPU, right? Also, while I'm at it, I'm curious about moving to ROM revision L-8, which I hear introduces some bug fixes that could be interesting, though requires re-wiring the jumper...Also I may burn myself the newer sound ROMs if I can find them. Does anyone have any experience with this with BoP?
I hate doing board work on the MPU myself. Last time I tried to do a NVRAM upgrade I fried my MPU board. Anyone have any recommendations on folks who could do both that and the W1 jumper for me and avoid a disaster? I've heard mention of Coin Op Cauldron before but I'm not sure if this is their specialty.

Just skip to Bride of Pinbot 2.0. Much, much better game, and cool graphics, too. Worthy of the machine you're building for it.

#296 2 years ago
Quoted from vireland:

Just skip to Bride of Pinbot 2.0. Much, much better game, and cool graphics, too. Worthy of the machine you're building for it.

Very true but...there would have to be a batch 4.

#297 2 years ago
Quoted from mollyspub:

Very true but...there would have to be a batch 4.

Cointaker is taking preorders on the next batch, so it's going to happen:

http://cointaker.com/products/bride-of-pinbot-20-upgrade-kit

#298 2 years ago
Quoted from mollyspub:

Very true but...there would have to be a batch 4.

My kit arrives Monday. I like optionality.

#299 2 years ago

Just a bump on the question from before... Which is the accurate tag?

IMG_3710 (resized).JPG

#300 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Just a bump on the question from before... Which is the accurate tag?

Post this question as a separate topic in the restoration sub forum if you don't get a response.

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