(Topic ID: 163782)

BoP: Father and Son's First Restoration [COMPLETE]


By jsa

3 years ago



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  • Latest reply 2 years ago by MajorHavoc
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There are 450 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 9.
#101 3 years ago

My son and I finished off the taping and masking of the cabinet today, and managed to prime the backbox. Here's my son reaching into the cabinet. We learned that the Harbor Freight lift table is also useful for raising the height of a helper so he can reach the inside of the cabinet:

IMG_2826_(resized).JPG

Here's what I learned priming my backbox today:

I chose a Neiko 2.0mm HVLP spray gun. The gun's specs are about 4.5cfm for nominal operation at 40psi. The compressor I have is a pancake compressor that does about 3.5cfm at 40psi. This is not ideal. Don't do this. I think for the cabinet I'll rent a larger compressor.

The nozzle size was fine spraying Kilz Original, but I had to thin it about 20% with thinner. I honestly don't think this matters much, though spraying this took a really long time (partially because I had to keep waiting for my compressor to catch up).

Here's the final product, after three hyper thin coats of Kilz:

IMG_2830_(resized).jpg

My poor man's spray booth was not adequately ventilated. I had a good respirator but really folks, don't do this, get proper ventilation if you're going to use a HVLP gun, it gets everywhere. I looked at myself in the mirror after and thought I aged, and realized that a fine mist of white Kilz was in my hair. I guess I should have worn hair protection!

As far as the finish is concerned, it's hard to say if it's orange peel or just my inconsistent sanding, but I think it looks pretty good. I experimented using Kilz from a spray rattle can for part of it and there is no question the atomization of the HVLP gun was superior to the rattle can. The trouble is that you can't get the HVLP gun into small areas, so using both isn't crazy if you're careful with the rattle can.

Anyway, next stop...priming the cabinet, and matching the purple decal color at a paint store.

#102 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

My son and I finished off the taping and masking of the cabinet today, and managed to prime the backbox. Here's my son reaching into the cabinet. We learned that the Harbor Freight lift table is also useful for raising the height of a helper so he can reach the inside of the cabinet:

Here's what I learned priming my backbox today:
I chose a Neiko 2.0mm HVLP spray gun. The gun's specs are about 4.5cfm for nominal operation at 40psi. The compressor I have is a pancake compressor that does about 3.5cfm at 40psi. This is not ideal. Don't do this. I think for the cabinet I'll rent a larger compressor.
The nozzle size was fine spraying Kilz Original, but I had to thin it about 20% with thinner. I honestly don't think this matters much, though spraying this took a really long time (partially because I had to keep waiting for my compressor to catch up).
Here's the final product, after three hyper thin coats of Kilz:

My poor man's spray booth was not adequately ventilated. I had a good respirator but really folks, don't do this, get proper ventilation if you're going to use a HVLP gun, it gets everywhere. I looked at myself in the mirror after and thought I aged, and realized that a fine mist of white Kilz was in my hair. I guess I should have worn hair protection!
As far as the finish is concerned, it's hard to say if it's orange peel or just my inconsistent sanding, but I think it looks pretty good. I experimented using Kilz from a spray rattle can for part of it and there is no question the atomization of the HVLP gun was superior to the rattle can. The trouble is that you can't get the HVLP gun into small areas, so using both isn't crazy if you're careful with the rattle can.
Anyway, next stop...priming the cabinet, and matching the purple decal color at a paint store.

Looks good from here! If the orange peel is concerning... I'm sure you're going to do this, but; sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint... it will come out so smooth it will feel like butter rubbed on chrome.

curious, are you going to paint the whole cab purple, or do the black and purple combo?

#103 3 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Looks good from here! If the orange peel is concerning... I'm sure you're going to do this, but; sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint... it will come out so smooth it will feel like butter rubbed on chrome.
curious, are you going to paint the whole cab purple, or do the black and purple combo?

My intent is to sand again with 320 until it's super smooth before painting a color. Do you feel we should paint another coat of primer after sanding it again?

As for the purple/black debate...I keep going back and forth. I'm definitely going with black for the inside of the main cabinet, inside of the main backbox, and the front edge and visible inside area of the backbox. Originally I was going to paint that purple but despite the marketing flyer showing this, I like the look of the black better there.

The question is what to paint the back of the backbox and cabinet. My current plan is to paint the back of the backbox purple and the back of the cabinet black, though I'm struggling a bit figuring out what to paint the beveled edges. If I stuck with just purple, this debate disappears. I have the same problem on the front edge of the backbox, where black meets purple. Decals will be married up against these edges, so my instinct is to paint the bevels the color of the decal, so I can paint the white vinyl to match. I'd love thoughts on this.

#104 3 years ago

If it were my cab... I'd do 220 grit then paint the color. One coat of primer should be good...

These are my steps, but everyone has different ideals...

Prime, sand 150, sand 220. Paint color, sand 220 if smooth, sand 150 if too much orange peel, sand 220, sand 320, paint color.

I find that if the surface is too smooth , the paint has more chance to sag...

Keep your gun clean, and paint at a consistent thinness.

This sounds weird, but for my satin black (inside the backbox), I love the krylon rattle can. (With the adjustable nozzle) It is really nice and consistent , it covers smoothly and is tough paint, easy to clean after dry (you know, later when dust settles in the game room)

#105 3 years ago

I rented a larger, 7CFM compressor, and it made a huge difference. Now I have a good motivator to get the painting done quickly:

image_(resized).jpeg

Once the paint was dry, I was less concerned about orange peel. It was gone. There was one spot where I painted too thickly, but that is easily rectified with sanding. A primed cabinet!

IMG_2843_(resized).jpg

Next step, sand down with 220, then paint color.

#106 3 years ago

great work. cabinet looks brand new now.

#107 3 years ago
Quoted from beatmaster:

great work. cabinet looks brand new now.

Thanks. I think we'll sand the primer-only decal areas with 320 prior to applying decals, everything else will be 220, paint, 220, 320, paint.

#108 3 years ago

We learned a few things today.

First, for anyone in the future trying to get a paint matched to your BoP purple, let me help limit your wasted time. High end and low end paint matching stores all use a variation of the same software matching system (Sherwin Williams and Home Depot included) that scans a source color and comes up with a match. Vinyl decals, specifically purple, have a reflective quality as well as a faint dithering to create the colors. This dithering, combined with the fact that bright ink colors in general are fairly rare in household paint, will cause any computer matching system to basically fail creating this purple.

However, if you stick to Home Depot or Lowes, there is a way to do this. You start with a purple (in my case, I found a swatch called Academy Purple), and you find an experienced person with no chip on his/her shoulder working the paint matching counter. They can edit your color by hand to create a match. It took him about twenty minutes, and to be honest, I'll never go anywhere else but this dude again, bless him.

purple_paint_(resized).jpg

It's not going to be perfect. If you want a perfect match for touch-ups, don't use this paint, use Createx Airbrush Colors and mix your own, you'll be way closer to the original. Here's a link: http://www.createxcolors.com/airbrushcolors.html

However, given that this paint will only be visible on the bevels, on the edge of the vinyl, and on the top and back of the backbox, I think it will be a great choice...We'll see when I get there! If you want to use it, in theory, a home depot can scan that QR code on that image and make you this paint.

Meanwhile, back to our restoration: Today we sanded the primer with 220 (and 320 where decals were going over primer) on both the cabinet and backbox. We then HVLP sprayed the first coat of semi-gloss black on the front/insides of the backbox and the inside and back of the cabinet.

The second important thing I learned today is more regarding HVLP spraying. For today's paint, which was a Behr Ultra Plus Semi-Gloss latex black paint, I used a Neiko 1.7mm nozzle HVLP spray gun, again with a 7CFM air compressor. I didn't need to do any thinning at all! In fact, right out of the can, it sprayed beautifully, though I did need to remove the stupid built in filter that ships with the Neiko (it is a small, white plastic cylinder that sits between the paint reservoir and the nozzle that is easy to remove). Here are the results of the first coat:

IMG_2857_(resized).JPG

IMG_2858_(resized).JPG

I can already see the extra attention to the details really paying off, particularly in places like this:

IMG_2859_(resized).JPG

Tomorrow, if the paint is ready, we'll sand all the black areas with 220, then 320, then do a final coat of semi-gloss black. This thing is really coming together! I also just got word that my repro playfield is coming soon, so now I know what my plan will be for the playfield.

#109 3 years ago

Nice Documentation, not many restorations get such treatment !

#111 3 years ago

The magic of Bondo and fiberglass resin:

restoration_progress_(resized).jpg

#112 3 years ago

The HVLP gun sprays a super consistent coat, but fair warning, it's also SUPER THIN. This latex paint covers really well so it's hard to tell how thin it is. I hit the black from yesterday with 220/320 before spraying the final coat, and the white primer was quick to show through in places. You can't spray thicker because you'll get orange peel, so you may need multiple coats, your milage may vary. I think I'm good with two coats.

#113 3 years ago

While the black paint is available, we have a couple more projects besides the cabinet to hit with black paint!

We painted the bolts we want to be black with a Scotch Brite pad, then painted with a self-etching primer:

IMG_2866_(resized).JPG

Nothing quite like the fun of removing the old, moldy, boogery paint from the U and H channel pieces. Just imagine how many sneezes these pieces saw over the past 26 years!

IMG_2870-1_(resized).JPG

The channels get cleaned with a Scotch Brite pad, cleaned with naptha, then also spray painted with self-etching primer. Finally, they get a couple coats of semi-gloss black:

IMG_2872_(resized).JPG

IMG_2874_(resized).JPG

Finally, the bolts got a couple thin coats of semi-gloss black as well:

IMG_2875_(resized).JPG

Now I'm debating painting another coat of black on the cabinet. I'm unsure if the shinier areas are that way because of my lame ass sanding or because of inconsistent painting! I'll let it cure for another hour or two and check again.

#114 3 years ago

For the bolts and channel why didn't you just use a wire wheel on a bench grinder, takes about 20 seconds per bolt to do the top, sides and under side of the bolt. The channels take a couple of minutes per piece.Takes off the rust and paint in a snap.

#115 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

The HVLP gun sprays a super consistent coat, but fair warning, it's also SUPER THIN. This latex paint covers really well so it's hard to tell how thin it is. I hit the black from yesterday with 220/320 before spraying the final coat, and the white primer was quick to show through in places. You can't spray thicker because you'll get orange peel, so you may need multiple coats, your milage may vary. I think I'm good with two coats.

I am no paint expert, but I use enamel black paint. I find it easier to sand than latex paint.

#116 3 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

For the bolts and channel why didn't you just use a wire wheel on a bench grinder, takes about 20 seconds per bolt to do the top, sides and under side of the bolt. The channels take a couple of minutes per piece.Takes off the rust and paint in a snap.

Well, the simple answer, because I don't have one. Regardless, it didn't take long. Also, the bolts had already been tumbled, so all I needed to do was a second of Scotch Brite per bolt on the head. Still, probably worth buying a wheel soon, since at some point I'll be re-surfacing the ball guides and other stainless items. It might make easier work.

Quoted from lb1:

I am no paint expert, but I use enamel black paint. I find it easier to sand than latex paint.

That's a valid choice. In fact, working with two part automotive paints probably would give me the best results, but I have more experience with latex so I went for it. If I went to an automotive paint store, chances are I'd have an easier time matching the purple! The truth is, after reading through a number of Vid's threads, I got attached to the idea of a good latex paint.

When I sanded the paint it sanded quite easily. The key with most latex paints is that it takes longer to cure, so for best sanding results, you must wait much longer. Regardless, the results look pretty good. I'll post some better lit photos tomorrow.

#117 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Well, the simple answer, because I don't have one.

Oh, I thought everybody had one of those.

#118 3 years ago

Ok experts. What would you recommend doing about this orange peel?

IMG_2877_(resized).JPG

Should I let cure, wet sand, and re-paint? What grit to wet sand with?

#119 3 years ago

Paint too thick and/or two much of it?

Where is it?

#120 3 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

Paint too thick and/or two much of it? Where is it?

My guess is that my sprayer was too close to the surface. It's on the very back of the main cabinet.

#121 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

My guess is that my sprayer was too close to the surface. It's on the very back of the main cabinet.

I would start by gently dry sanding an small area with 400 grit and see.

#122 3 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

I would start by gently dry sanding an small area with 400 grit and see.

I'm thinking I should let it cure for a day first, though. It's dry to the touch but this paint takes a while.

#123 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

I'm thinking I should let it cure for a day first, though. It's dry to the touch but this paint takes a while.

I'd wait 3 or 4 days then sand. After sanding wait another couple days to allow the sanded paint to cure AGAIN....cuz you exposed paint that MAY not have dried to that depth and beyond.

#124 3 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

I'd wait 3 or 4 days then sand. After sanding wait another couple days to allow the sanded paint to cure AGAIN....cuz you exposed paint that MAY not have dried to that depth and beyond.

My son thinks it looks good this way. Maybe we're overthinking this! Regardless, time to stop trying to correct it and let it cure for a few days at least as you suggest.

I lose my compressor tomorrow. I may try to paint the purple somehow, though I'm afraid to mask anything fresh.

#125 3 years ago

Since your loosing your compressor tomorrow just think on it for a while, if it still bugs you then respray it.

#126 3 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Since your loosing your compressor tomorrow just think on it for a while, if it still bugs you then respray it.

Exactly my thoughts. Since the backbox black is finished, I'll HVLP the purple tomorrow if I think it can handle the masking tape. I also managed to get the playfield mounted on a rotisserie:

Never seen a drywall screw used as a bumper post before.

This is my first time using this rotisserie (the one Marco sells), and I have to say, I'm really disappointed. The brackets that hold the playfield bend easily under the weight of the playfield. When you turn it upside down, if the C clamps aren't super tight right up against the horizontal brackets, they will just bend and break. I'll probably screw this playfield directly into the brackets. I could probably improve this with some thought, but for now, it seems stable enough. I'll end up making my own rotisserie in the future, but a shame to pay this money and have it be flimsy.

#127 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

This is my first time using this rotisserie (the one Marco sells), and I have to say, I'm really disappointed. The brackets that hold the playfield bend easily under the weight of the playfield. When you turn it upside down, if the C clamps aren't super tight right up against the horizontal brackets, they will just bend and break. I'll probably screw this playfield directly into the brackets. I could probably improve this with some thought, but for now, it seems stable enough. I'll end up making my own rotisserie in the future, but a shame to pay this money and have it be flimsy.

Oh man I'd fire off a nasty letter to them.

#128 3 years ago

I'm feeling the purple pinbot power.

IMG_2920_(resized).JPG

Do you folks typically paint the sides where the decals go? I was thinking of doing the edges of the sides so the bevel matches.

#129 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Do you folks typically paint the sides where the decals go?

Yes. Nice paint job!

#130 3 years ago

Purple looks awesome! I understand how people like the factory look, but if you're going through all the efforts, why not make it your own?

#131 3 years ago

Since decals are going on the sides of the backbox, and the current surface is perfect for the decal, I may limit the spray to the edges. Then again, if I start spraying and I'm covering most of it anyway, I'll just finish the job.

The cabinet is making progress as well:

IMG_2922_(resized).JPG

#132 3 years ago

Fun times! Lookin good!

#133 3 years ago

Looks like you've got a bit of orange peel there as well. You're not thinning your paint at all?

#134 3 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

Looks like you've got a bit of orange peel there as well. You're not thinning your paint at all?

Well, interestingly, the paint comes out initially in a bit of an orange peel, then it flows outward and the orange peel disappears, particularly on a surface properly sanded.

My painting process ran into a few hiccups. The purple turned out great. The black, however, has inconsistent semi-gloss. I'm thinking that the black paint unmixed itself at some point, or something about spraying it un-thinned. The purple, which is the exact same base, I thinned with about 10% water, and it worked beautifully.

To fix it, I abandoned the HVLP for the black and went to Rustoleum 2x "Painter's Touch" Semi-Gloss black spray paint. The stuff really looks great. In fact, I was just about finished with all the painting, when I made a rookie mistake. I had taped on top of the black paint with a high end 3M masking tape, and when I pulled it off, it left its glue residue behind, rendering wherever it was with zero gloss. If I wet with naptha or thinner, the gloss returns.

So now I'm experimenting with removing the glue with thinner. If that fails, I'll have to either repaint with black, or paint over with a semi-gloss clear, which I have handy. If anyone has any experience with this problem, let me know.

Also... I'm wondering if anyone has cleared over the warning screen text? One option would be to hit everything with a semi-gloss clear once the screen text is on, though my fear is that it would dissolve the screen ink.

#135 3 years ago

I have used the Rustoleum spray cans quite extensively for my TZ cab and other stuff. I like them a lot except that I find the solvent so hot that unless you wait long enough between two coats, you end up dissolving the previous coat. It's happened to me multiple times, as recently as Sunday, painting wood rails. The other problem is that the geometry of the spray pattern isn't as wide and adjustable as with a gun.

As far as the clear goes, I'm pretty sure it's a lot easier to apply than paint. Back to the rails I had problems with, I ended up sanding the painted problematic areas and applying the oil based clear gloss over it. The rails came out great with a beautiful gloss. The clear is almost as fluid as water, it isn't that hot so it plays nicely with the rustoleum even when it hasn't fully cured, and it dries relatively fast. If you wait a few days after you have screened, you should be able to apply some semi-gloss clear without a problem.

For the glue, try alcohol.

#136 3 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

I have used the Rustoleum spray cans quite extensively for my TZ cab and other stuff. I like them a lot except that I find the solvent so hot that unless you wait long enough between two coats, you end up dissolving the previous coat. It's happened to me multiple times, as recently as Sunday, painting wood rails. The other problem is that the geometry of the spray pattern isn't as wide and adjustable as with a gun.
As far as the clear goes, I'm pretty sure it's a lot easier to apply than paint. Back to the rails I had problems with, I ended up sanding the painted problematic areas and applying the oil based clear gloss over it. The rails came out great with a beautiful gloss. The clear is almost as fluid as water, it isn't that hot so it plays nicely with the rustoleum even when it hasn't fully cured, and it dries relatively fast. If you wait a few days after you have screened, you should be able to apply some semi-gloss clear without a problem.
For the glue, try alcohol.

Great tips, thank you. For the clear, I was planning on using the Rustoleum Semi-Gloss clear spray rattle can, since this isn't a playfield after all. Any experience with that?

#137 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Great tips, thank you. For the clear, I was planning on using the Rustoleum Semi-Gloss clear spray rattle can, since this isn't a playfield after all. Any experience with that?

I'm thinking the same. Or the Varathane Diamond Wood Finish (200281 Satin or 200181 semi-gloss) though it's more expensive (almost double). Worth it to use the Varathane for a cabinet?

#138 3 years ago

You should be good to go with that.

#139 3 years ago

You can see some inconsistency with the semi-gloss clear. I'm pretty sure this happened because the pressure out of the can was so high, even at 12", it pushed or blew the previous line of paint aside.

image_(resized).jpeg

Do you guys recommend we add a coat or two, or sand down (maybe wet sand with high grit) and then a new coat?

#140 3 years ago

Also, can someone explain to me the science/wisdom around this:

FullSizeRender-1_(resized).jpg

or from another angle:

FullSizeRender_(resized).jpg

It seems that after sanding a coat of paint (say, at 320 grit), the entire surface will appear 100% uniform. Then, when I paint a new coat, there will be some areas that look like that. Almost like a naturally occuring steel diamond plate pattern. Is this random? Something left behind in the previous coat? We're at a loss.

#141 3 years ago

Looks like lifting.
Usually due to poor surface prep, poor surface adhesion or dissimilar paints, top coat too hot or too heavy.
Top coat eating the base coat etc...

#142 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Also, can someone explain to me the science/wisdom around this:

or from another angle:

It seems that after sanding a coat of paint (say, at 320 grit), the entire surface will appear 100% uniform. Then, when I paint a new coat, there will be some areas that look like that. Almost like a naturally occuring steel diamond plate pattern. Is this random? Something left behind in the previous coat? We're at a loss.

What's the ambient temperature? I can't imagine it's too cool this time of year, but this has happened to me when the temp was too cool.

#143 3 years ago
Quoted from vireland:

What's the ambient temperature? I can't imagine it's too cool this time of year, but this has happened to me when the temp was too cool.

The temperature was about 72 degrees. What causes checking and lifting?

#144 3 years ago

You used latex paint then cleared it with enamel clear?

#145 3 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

You used latex paint then cleared it with enamel clear?

This depends on what photo. On the black photo with the strange lifted pattern, that's just spray enamel (Rustoleum Painter's Touch) on top of Kilz primer. The inconsistent clear coat photo is spray enamel clear (Rustoleum Painter's Touch Semi-Gloss) over latex.

#146 3 years ago

...and I should add, the strange lifted pattern was really enamel on top of enamel, as I sanded a previous coat of semi-gloss black and painted another coat on top, and got that pattern.

#147 3 years ago

When you sanded the last coat of black paint how long did you let it dry after sanding before you sprayed the clear?

#148 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

The temperature was about 72 degrees. What causes checking and lifting?

That temp should be fine. You have to get into the 60's before you could have issues.

Other causes could be two incompatible types of paint/primer or the timing of the second coat.

#149 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Also, can someone explain to me the science/wisdom around this:

or from another angle:

It seems that after sanding a coat of paint (say, at 320 grit), the entire surface will appear 100% uniform. Then, when I paint a new coat, there will be some areas that look like that. Almost like a naturally occuring steel diamond plate pattern. Is this random? Something left behind in the previous coat? We're at a loss.

That is doing too much to fast. The layers need time to cure and if too thick same thing.

#150 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

That's a valid choice. In fact, working with two part automotive paints probably would give me the best results, but I have more experience with latex so I went for it. If I went to an automotive paint store, chances are I'd have an easier time matching the purple! The truth is, after reading through a number of Vid's threads, I got attached to the idea of a good latex paint.

When in doubt; always powdercoat hardware.
Seriously; powdercoating is the bomb!

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