(Topic ID: 163782)

BoP: Father and Son's First Restoration [COMPLETE]


By jsa

3 years ago



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  • 450 posts
  • 52 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by MajorHavoc
  • Topic is favorited by 76 Pinsiders

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There are 450 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 9.
#51 3 years ago

My son is into the Bondo. We've been a little obsessed with making it right.

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He likes doing the hard work. He'll sweat on this for an hour, why not do the dishes? I do not understand.

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This is the sort of thing we spend too much time on. On many BoPs this little spot just beneath the backbox tends to be worn and chipped. We rebuilt it with Bondo.

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Almost finished with the outside!

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Now we'll take a weekend off to attend the California Extreme show in sunny Santa Clara, California. My wife is scared I'll come home with another machine. I'm just here to play!

#52 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

He likes doing the hard work. He'll sweat on this for an hour, why not do the dishes? I do not understand.

I'm the same way.

#53 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

My son is into the Bondo. We've been a little obsessed with making it right.

He likes doing the hard work. He'll sweat on this for an hour, why not do the dishes? I do not understand.

This is the sort of thing we spend too much time on. On many BoPs this little spot just beneath the backbox tends to be worn and chipped. We rebuilt it with Bondo.

Almost finished with the outside!

Now we'll take a weekend off to attend the California Extreme show in sunny Santa Clara, California. My wife is scared I'll come home with another machine. I'm just here to play!

Nice! Good to take a break, and ce will be strong motivation for your project...

I went to TPF this year, came home with 3 machines, the wife was not thrilled

One more thing... Why no electric sander? Bondo takes forever to sand off by hand

#54 3 years ago

We have a orbital sander. Honestly, for taking off glue, going one direction was marginally faster. For finish work and sanding smooth, we like the control of hand sanding. We used the orbital for removing paint and for really rough spots.

I get the feeling a belt sander would be perfect but that being an amateur could ruin my day. Plus, you get a great workout with a block sander!!

As we move to the inside we'll move to an orbital probably since it's so awkward.

#55 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

He likes doing the hard work. He'll sweat on this for an hour, why not do the dishes? I do not understand.

For a second, I thought my wife infiltrated your feed.

Enjoy Cal Extreme!

#56 3 years ago

My son got a good look at some of the restorations here on Pinside. Why did I get him a computer? Anyway, he prefers the "clean look" of the natural wood for the floor of the cabinet. Since this is a BoP from 1989, when they made the cabinet, they were liberal with the black spray paint and overspray onto the floor of the cabinet. To make matters more complicated, the floor is MDF, so it absorbed quite a bit of black paint at the overspray locations.

So, for cleaning out the inside of the cabinet, we decided to sand out the overspray black paint. There are certain areas that no electric sander can hit, and even a manual block sanding is complicated. For example, in this corner where the power switch plate is located, it's hard to get into the corner. I came up with this trick, using a small razor blade to scrape the black layer of paint off:

IMG_2613_(resized).JPG

Finally, for those hard-to-reach channels and edges, a thin piece of plywood wrapped in sandpaper does the trick:

IMG_2615_(resized).JPG

The final result is surprisingly effective. I keep seeing black paint, but that may be my sun blindness at this point.

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No sign of boot prints anywhere. We'll paint the sides and the gossets semi gloss black, so no sense in getting the gossets perfect.

We'll do some final bondo on the inside walls of the cabinet, then we'll hit it all with 80, 120, and 220. Then repeat all again for the backbox!

#57 3 years ago

Fine job sir

#58 3 years ago

Sanding the inside bottom is one of the jobs I hate the worst. Very time consuming. I now use a couple of very sharp paint scrapers to remove most of the paint along edges and tight corners. For that power switch block, I would have just removed it and reinstalled after sanding. Makes life lots easier.

And thank you for not taking the easy way out and just painting the bottom black to hide everything. I really hate that!!

#59 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:And thank you for not taking the easy way out and just painting the bottom black to hide everything. I really hate that!!

What about white?

#60 3 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

What about white?

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer the original unpainted look.

#61 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer the original unpainted look.

Me too, unless there's damage that has to be repaired... But these guys are going it right

#62 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Sanding the inside bottom is one of the jobs I hate the worst. Very time consuming. I now use a couple of very sharp paint scrapers to remove most of the paint along edges and tight corners. For that power switch block, I would have just removed it and reinstalled after sanding. Makes life lots easier.
And thank you for not taking the easy way out and just painting the bottom black to hide everything. I really hate that!!

First I'm honored you're following this thread, thanks for the kind words, Bryan! We are trying to follow your example as best we can. Somehow, going through your restoration of IJ thread, I figured out that I had most of these tools you use now...So I might as well give it a shot. What my son and I don't have is the miles of experience so this is definitely going to take a while.

We have these moments in this process where something is so hard (like the sanding of the inside bottom) where you almost feel like cutting a corner. Our agreement is to just take a break and attack it again the next day. So far, we've managed to not take short cuts. I'm a little nervous removing cabinet wood parts (like gossets or the power switch block) because we don't quite have the grace to not damage the cabinet. Maybe on the next restoration.

You probably saw I mentioned that you probably would have re-made the gossets to fit the new plates. We took a different tact, and have successfully created a 3D model of a perfect adaptor (we tested printing an ABS plastic draft) that sits between the leg plate and the wood. It's stronger than the cabinet wood, so I'm not worried about using ABS for structural integrity. We could also send the model to Shapeways and get metal adapters. When we're finished with the final touches, we can post the 3D model so if someone wants to print it (in ABS or metal) they can use it. We are a ways off from putting them in but it gave us something fun to do. So in this case, we literally avoided "cutting corners." (Terrible pun.)

Today and tomorrow we're hoping to finish the bondo/sanding work so we're ready to prime.

Question for all of you: We have a HVLP paint sprayer we were hoping to use with some white Kilz Original primer. Anyone have any experience with this? I've only used it years ago for general spraying with a thinned paint. It's a 1.7mm nozzle so I'm hoping it works without any thinning. We have some naptha we can use or can acquire some better thinner. I know Bryan uses rattle cans, but since we're going to be matching the purple decal with a latex paint for the top and back of the backbox, I figure we'll need a sprayer option anyway. Think this is doable?

#63 3 years ago

All Bondo work is complete. Next we'll sand and sand and sand (120, 220). Then prime.

Backbox all filled in:

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Meanwhile, my son is printing the next draft of the adapter plate:

#64 3 years ago

Fits like a glove, I love that this works:

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#65 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Fits like a glove, I love that this works:

Way cool!!! So glad you were able to see your son's idea to fruition. Great thread!

#66 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Fits like a glove, I love that this works:

Nice job.

#67 3 years ago

If this is your first restoration, jsa, I'd say you're doing great. I'd even go so far as to say it's better than the first one I did many years ago! Needless to say, they get easier the more you do. After a few, you'll look back at this one and wonder why you did some things the hard way.

#68 3 years ago

It is quite a treat to restore a pinball with your son.

I did my first pinball (a Xenon) with my son. We went together to pick it up in the mountains of North Carolina and my son helped me pretty much for all the phases. It was so nice to see him come out of his video games and spend some time, taking apart the playfield and the cabinet. He was also the first one to play the machine, without the glass.... He enjoyed picking up the ball from the trough and playing it again. Lots of good memories. Now, he is 25, and still wander through some arcades. Unlike most people of his generation, he knows how to play a pinball machine.

Yves

#69 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

If this is your first restoration, jsa, I'd say you're doing great. I'd even go so far as to say it's better than the first one I did many years ago! Needless to say, they get easier the more you do. After a few, you'll look back at this one and wonder why you did some things the hard way.

It's my first, for sure. I'll be honest, we keep looking at the playfield in the corner of our garage (still not stripped down) and it's super intimidating. We're focusing on the cabinet for now. I'm hoping to do a playfield swap, but even then, I can't imagine keeping all of this straight. We probably should swap out all the microswitches with new ones, but man, I'm terrible at soldering!

#70 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

It's my first, for sure. I'll be honest, we keep looking at the playfield in the corner of our garage (still not stripped down) and it's super intimidating. We're focusing on the cabinet for now. I'm hoping to do a playfield swap, but even then, I can't imagine keeping all of this straight. We probably should swap out all the microswitches with new ones, but man, I'm terrible at soldering!

Best thing you could do is leave the playfield in the corner until the cabinet is entirely done. The playfield won't look so bad when that's all you have left to do.

#71 3 years ago

great work guys and I like the 3d adaptor plate - nice work on the design. Make sure to add it to all the other pinball stuff at Shapeways for those that don't have a printer and you can allow people to download the model from there as well. Pinside doesn't allow attaching a STL file to a post.

#72 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

I'm terrible at soldering!

Get a Hakko soldering station. I should've done this years ago.

Great thread.

#73 3 years ago

The playfield becomes a cinch when you take a TON of Pictures of everything for reference, take a few notes from beezelboob, he labels everything, even the pinballs

(you most likely don't need to replace switches unless they are broken, they may just need a good cleaning. the flippers, yes; they need to have an overhaul with a flipper rebuild kit. and maybe new flipper button switches... All this info is coming a little too early, so I'll wait to chime in more on this until you get to this stage)

The 3d part is pretty cool, good job!

#74 3 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

Get a Hakko soldering station. I should've done this years ago.
Great thread.

Thanks! I have a Weller with a digital temperature setting. My issue is mostly around de-soldering, which I must have a genetic defect preventing me from doing without damage.

#75 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

My issue is mostly around de-soldering, which I must have a genetic defect preventing me from doing without damage.

Hakko FR-300 Handheld Desoldering Tool and an assortment of nozzles and never look back.

#76 3 years ago

That print is a great idea! Mind throwing it up on Thingiverse?

#77 3 years ago
Quoted from dudah:

That print is a great idea! Mind throwing it up on Thingiverse?

We will throw it up on Thingiverse, but we really want to test it in our own restoration first. (Also we're new to all things 3D printed so any tips to posting on Thingiverse?) However, if you need it sooner than that (we're moving at a first-time restorer's pace) just PM me with an email and I can send it to you.

We're just getting back from some travel, so hopefully we can post more progress this week.

#78 3 years ago

Made some progress today. We focused on getting the main, lower cabinet ready for priming. I wanted to show off some of our repairs before they were covered up!

This is what the side looks like after it has been hit with 220:

IMG_2685_(resized).JPG

I find it interesting that the cabinet was not sanded to this level in the first place, particularly the inside where you can see the side of cabinet above the playfield. It didn't take much work to get it smooth:

IMG_2688_(resized).JPG

Here you can see the repair to the front where someone took a crowbar to the coin door. We chose to drill some shallow holes in the damage, fill with fiberglass resin (after putting an aluminum dam around the coin door edge). That worked for most of it, but for the more shallow areas we ended up adding some Bondo:

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A close up:

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The original:

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My son next to the cabinet, ready to get primed. We're proud of our work, this is all new to us!

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Even the back was filled up and sanded smooth:

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I repaired the damaged ridge beneath the backbox. I somewhat regret not using fiberglass resin for this particular repair, because I have a feeling it gets dinged a lot:

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And finally, the inside. I don't look forward to taping the bottom out for priming, but we'll get it done:

IMG_2700_(resized).JPG

Since we're getting closer to priming, anyone have any particular advice around 1) thinning Kilz Original for spraying and 2) what grit sandpaper to scuff sand the primer coat before putting on another coat or a final top coat?

-Jay

#79 3 years ago

Jay,
I can't answer on the paint. I use automotive urethane primers through an HVLP. I can tell you I lightly sand with 220 grit between coats.

#80 3 years ago
Quoted from Skypilot:

Jay,
I can't answer on the paint. I use automotive urethane primers through an HVLP. I can tell you I lightly sand with 220 grit between coats.

I also plan to use an HVLP. I lack the ambition to use any two part primers or paints. If I can't get the primer to spray the way I want, I may just purchase some Kilz in rattle cans.

#81 3 years ago

What an awesome project to do with your kid! Get 'em off the couch and in the garage! Looking good so far!

#82 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

I also plan to use an HVLP. I lack the ambition to use any two part primers or paints. If I can't get the primer to spray the way I want, I may just purchase some Kilz in rattle cans.

I have yet to get a good result without reducing the paint. Ive worked with rattle cans before and found them to be acceptable also. I did a Funhouse a few years ago and it was with rattle cans.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/funhouse-restoration/page/5#post-782527

#83 3 years ago

All good advice. I'll experiment with my 1.7mm nozzle and see what works and what doesn't. I'll post my results here.

Meanwhile, completed the backbox with 120 and 220 grit:

IMG_2701_(resized).JPG

The only things we haven't done is "break" or bevel the edges and make/install new chocks. Anyone have any feedback on the beveling? The backbox and cabinet did not have beveled edges on all the edges. It had that on the bottom of the backbox and maybe the back edges, but most of the edges came to a point. I understand there is value in the beveling for installing the decal art, but what exactly? The beveled edges would need to be painted the color of the art (purple) and match pretty perfectly to not stand out.

#84 3 years ago

Have you thought about putting T molding on the bb?

#85 3 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Have you thought about putting T molding on the bb?

By T molding are you referring to edge covering? I think I know what you mean... I saw someone put brass molding on their ToM.

I'm leaning towards painting the edge and backbox area in front of the backlass semi gloss black. I was originally thinking purple, but the more I imagine it the more I think black will look great. It will be primed well so I don't think the plywood grain will be very visible. Is that why you are suggesting it?

#86 3 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Have you thought about putting T molding on the bb?

Also, the Sterns with that stuff kind of look cheesy to me, but that's just my opinion.

EDIT: Referring to the chrome t mouding... Though I suppose if kept in good shape it would look pretty good.

#87 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

By T molding are you referring to edge covering? I think I know what you mean... I saw someone put brass molding on their ToM.
I'm leaning towards painting the edge and backbox area in front of the backlass semi gloss black. I was originally thinking purple, but the more I imagine it the more I think black will look great. It will be primed well so I don't think the plywood grain will be very visible. Is that why you are suggesting it?

Yes that's it. The plywood edge grain is murder to get rid of because of all the voids and different kinds of wood in the plies and changing directions of the plies. Just put black T molding on.

#88 3 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Yes that's it. The plywood edge grain is murder to get rid of because of all the voids and different kinds of wood in the plies and changing directions of the plies. Just put black T molding on.

Well the beauty of T moulding is that I can wait to see how it looks and add it after...Though I'd have to cut a slot, correct?

#89 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

All good advice. I'll experiment with my 1.7mm nozzle and see what works and what doesn't. I'll post my results here.
Meanwhile, completed the backbox with 120 and 220 grit:

The only things we haven't done is "break" or bevel the edges and make/install new chocks. Anyone have any feedback on the beveling? The backbox and cabinet did not have beveled edges on all the edges. It had that on the bottom of the backbox and maybe the back edges, but most of the edges came to a point. I understand there is value in the beveling for installing the decal art, but what exactly? The beveled edges would need to be painted the color of the art (purple) and match pretty perfectly to not stand out.

My understanding is that the beveled edges make it easier to trim the decals. You just need to run a xacto blade at a 45 degree angle.

The only decal job I did was without them because I feared I wouldn't get a nice regular bevel. It turned out trimming the edge was still super easy with a long straight metal ruler.

Regardless, you still need to paint the edge a color that matches the decal edge as the decal does not go all the way to the edge of the cabinet. Maybe you have 1/16th of an inch but it's enough to see the color that's underneath.

#90 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Well the beauty of T moulding is that I can wait to see how it looks and add it after...Though I'd have to cut a slot, correct?

Yes, but practice cutting slots first.

#91 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Well the beauty of T moulding is that I can wait to see how it looks and add it after...Though I'd have to cut a slot, correct?

You wouldn't want to do it after. It takes a router and special bit to cut the slot. It also makes a mess. It's not something you'd want to do once the game is complete.....unless you like getting kicked in the nuts.

#92 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

You wouldn't want to do it after. It takes a router and special bit to cut the slot. It also makes a mess. It's not something you'd want to do once the game is complete.....unless you like getting kicked in the nuts.

So true.

#93 3 years ago

I think I'm going to pass on the T moulding this time. I see the value but I don't think we have the right tools and right experience yet to make it happen.

Meanwhile, prior to priming (and building our amateur spray booth), we're going to need to break these corners. I see Bryan uses a longer sanding block to make it a bit more consistent... We can try that. There already were SOME beveled edges on the cabinets, so we'll probably work to match it.

Since this is a BoP, and we're dealing with dark purple, will the white part of the vinyl be a problem on the edges?

#94 3 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Since this is a BoP, and we're dealing with dark purple, will the white part of the vinyl be a problem on the edges?

Yes. It's going to stand out. Once the decals are on, tape off the decal and also tape off the part of the cabinet that's painted. What you should have left is the tiny slit that is the white. Spray some paint into a small jar and use a small, good artist brush to paint the white. Only use as much as you need to cover the white. Put it on too thick and you'll feel a paint edge after removing the tape.

#95 3 years ago

Did my best to make some new chocks out of oak. It's not hyper precision (I think they are a millimeter too shallow) but they look better than the originals, that's for sure. Think it's safe to nail gun them with finish nails into the cabinet?

IMG_2767_(resized).JPG

#96 3 years ago

Chocks installed! I did my best to put them close to where they were when we took them off. However, they weren't equidistant to the sides before, so we corrected that now (the holes in the back of the cabinet are also off-center slightly).

IMG_2769_(resized).JPG

#97 3 years ago

I've beveled the corners of both cabinets.


Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Yes. It's going to stand out. Once the decals are on, tape off the decal and also tape off the part of the cabinet that's painted. What you should have left is the tiny slit that is the white. Spray some paint into a small jar and use a small, good artist brush to paint the white. Only use as much as you need to cover the white. Put it on too thick and you'll feel a paint edge after removing the tape.

I imagine that the color you paint the bevel will depend on what edge you're looking at. For example, it seems the bevels on the two front corners of the main cabinet would be purple (where purple meets purple), and probably on the bottom (where purple meets unpainted bottom edge). However, where purple meets black on the rear two corners, it seems to me that I might be better served painting the bevel black, because otherwise when you look at the cabinet from the back you would see a purple outline. Am I thinking of this correctly? I guess the alternative is a black outline for the side decals, which might be annoying as well. (Why are we beveling again? LOL.)

The back of the backbox I was planning on painting black to match the original, and painting the rear bevels black as well. The top would be purple to match the decals. I noticed HEP paints them a darker purple. Anyone have any thoughts on this? The back of both the backbox and main cabinet were black when I got it.

#98 3 years ago

My temporary spray booth looks like a creepy scene from the TV show Dexter. Yikes.

IMG_2793_BOOTH_(resized).JPG

Tomorrow I'm going to experiment spraying Kilz Original with a 2.0mm nozzle at various levels of thinning. I'll try it first without thinning, as 2.0mm is supposedly a primer nozzle after all.

#99 3 years ago

Reading online that my 1.7mm nozzle might be better. Where are the auto painting enthusiasts when you need them?

#100 3 years ago

Good luck. Excited to see the outcome!

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