(Topic ID: 132740)

BOP Club...non 2.0

By MustangPaul

8 years ago


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  • Latest reply 46 days ago by ralphs007
  • Topic is favorited by 118 Pinsiders

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#1873 4 years ago

Since no one seems to have the elusive BoP wire gate for sale (A-14609), and many people (like me) are missing the gate, I'm wondering if anyone can provide the measurement specs for the gate (not the wire, which you can still buy from Marco). Alternately, if anyone has a good solution for making the gate yourself (materials used, etc) please post your solution.

Thanks

#1875 4 years ago

Thanks. Those appear to be the measurements of the wire. I need the measurements of the gate (the frame that the wire is attached to). My gate is missing (and that's the part no one carries anymore).

#1878 4 years ago

Brilliant, thanks.

nerdygrrl Sadly, most of the gates for sale on Marco don't have sizes listed. Of the few that do have sizes, the closest I could find are 3" overall and 3.437" overall. If anyone knows of another gate that matches the specs above, please let me know. If not, at least I can use these measurements to try and bend one up from some scrap metal.

#1879 3 years ago

I have a friend who works at a metal shop and may be able to fabricate one of these using tfduda measurements. If others are in need, I can ask if they'd be willing to fabricate more for sale depending on interest. Fabrication would include the frame only (not the wire) but you can purchase the wire from Marco or make that yourself with piano wire.

#1881 3 years ago

The part seems to be missing on a lot of BOP's based on what I've read here. I got the part manufactured yesterday - it came out perfect. I think it's the same part on Funhouse - if it's not avail from any of the pin sites (PBR, Marco, etc.) for BoP, it's not avail for Funhouse either.

If there are many people looking for the part (I believe it's A-14609) I could probably get my friend to manufacture a bunch. Would have to be a big enough group to make it worthwhile though. Manufacturing these to spec as one-offs is very expensive in terms of machinery and programming time.

Got a friend to weld the ball cage yesterday where the ball launches from the plunger - 3 weld points were separated.

Next up - playfield touch-ups on the 2nd playfield you sold me to cover the yellowed spots, followed by attempting my first clear coat.

This is giving me something to do during quarantine. At least I'm still able to order parts and supplies online

IMG_6511 (resized).jpegIMG_6511 (resized).jpeg
#1883 3 years ago

I'll keep track of how many are interested. I have to find out from the shop how many they would need to sell to make it worthwhile for both buyer and seller. In other words - no one's buying this part if it costs $50. . .

#1884 3 years ago

In order to get these to a reasonable price (~$10) I would have to get 100 orders. The price doubles to $20ea to produce <100 (all + shipping), plus you'd have to make or buy the wire part separately. If anyone wants 1 at $20, I think they made a few for me as a test. This is no profit for me - strictly my cost.

#1886 3 years ago

That bracket, coupled with the wire gate, is a one-way restrictor. The ball can go up the ramp, but if it hits the left side on the way down, the wire gate will stop it there and funnel it to the right side, so the ball doesn't simply drain straight down the middle.

You can see the gate stop the ball at 23:19 in this video:

#1888 3 years ago

At the moment, the ones my friend made are at the $20 level (and that's without wire or shipping). If you'd like one at that price, I can certainly have it shipped. That's a lot of $ for what the part is, so I'm also happy to wait and see if we can get a bigger group order and bring the cost down to something more reasonable.

#1890 3 years ago

No worries. I'll make sure you're on top of the list, along with mollyspub. If you change your mind and decide to buy one now at $20, just DM me and I'll arrange for shipment, etc.

1 week later
#1895 3 years ago

Any opinions on the best set of BoP cabinet decals? I'm possibly looking to replace with the original purple look (not 2.0, not black). What are the differences between the various makers products? Thanks in advance.

1 week later
#1898 3 years ago

I will be starting a BoP restoration this weekend. In preparation, I sent one of my wireframes to Chris Royalty to exchange with a newer chrome plated copy. When Chris received my wireframe, he noticed that mine was different than the ones he keeps in stock - mine have less reinforcements, but they don't appear to have been modified (no old weld points, etc.). I'm not sure if I have an older version of the wireframe. Just thought this was interesting. In the attached pictures, Chris' is on the left, mine is on the right. When I purchased the game, I found 3 broken weld points on mine - probably due to the lack of reinforcements present on Chris' version.

image1 (resized).jpegimage1 (resized).jpegunnamed (resized).jpgunnamed (resized).jpg
#1899 3 years ago

Any idea what kind of jet bumper screws are used in this machine? I knocked one out of the playfield and they are not fin shank - they have larger threads on top, smaller threads on bottom.

Thanks in advance

2 months later
#1915 3 years ago

Does anyone have a good pic of the wiring for each of the pop bumper lights that they would be willing to share? It's the last thing I have to do on the underside of my playfield swap and the pictures I took before disassembly aren't great.

Thanks

3 months later
#1984 3 years ago

Hi everyone, I could use some help. I'm finishing a complete tear down and rebuild of my BoP and I've got a problem I can't figure out. I bought a new ramp but it seems to be the wrong size. The mini playfield is lower than the ramp, so I can't see how the ball would ever transfer from the mini playfield to the ramp. See the yellow arrows showing the height difference (ignore the different colored rubbers, which I need to order more of). Everything else seems to have gone back together correctly so I can't understand how this height difference is happening unless that's the way it's supposed to be.

Thanks in advance

IMG_7848 (resized).jpegIMG_7848 (resized).jpeg
#1989 3 years ago
Quoted from KJS:

does this help?[quoted image]

My mini playfield is resting on the same supports as in your picture, so that seems correct.

However, my ramp seemingly can only be attached one way on top of the frame for the shooter lane rollers, but it's hovering a half inch above the rear bracket it's supposed to be screwed into. No matter how much I push or twist it, I can't force it down any further. I'll take some pics from other directions to see if that provides any clues but I messed with it for hours before giving up and going to bed (and posting here).

#1992 3 years ago

The middle hex post was exactly the problem. I had to drill the inside of ramp to make the space wide enough for the hex post. Thanks for looking and helping!

#1993 3 years ago

Finally got my BoP all put back together and many problems. . .

Head not calibrating - I assume this is just a switch adjustment issue.

Jet bumper solenoids don't fire

None of my cabinet switches seem to be working - start button, coin buttons, tilt, coin door switch

Slingshot solenoids not working

Could any/all of these problems be related? I've checked fuses in the backbox - all appear to be good but I replaced 2 just to be sure.

Any advice on how to start troubleshooting these problems would be greatly appreciated. I have a multimeter but I don't really know how to use it

Thanks

#1994 3 years ago

might have solved my problems - had 2 plugs reversed in the back box. now i have to adjust a bunch of switches and replace a fuse which i'm hoping will fix my jet bumper and sling solenoids.

#2001 3 years ago

How can I test to verify my motor is spinning in both directions? Seems like mine is only spinning in one direction.

Thanks

#2009 3 years ago

I finally got the slo blow fuses I ordered and promptly blew 5 of them. I am continually blowing F101 when I press my right flipper button (which is weird because is supposedly for Left Flipper) and F103 when I press my Right Flipper button. F102 also occasionally blows.

Read about an error on Rottendog boards that causes left to register as right & vice versa. I assume this is the version of the board I have and no one ever bothered to fix it. I don't think that's the cause of my fuse issue because the machine was working with this board before my tear down and rebuild.

I've double checked my flipper wiring and it seems correct.

F103 always blows on start up unless I disconnect my jet bumpers.

Flippers and bumpers are all rebuilt so I'm sure I've done something wrong. Just can't figure out what.

I tried following pinwiki with a multimeter for my flippers to check that they're finding a path to ground and that they are wired correctly and everything seems to check out/

Final weird problem - my outhole solenoid is too strong - it keeps slamming the third ball into the others and sending the ball straight back to the solenoid in an endless loop.

Any ideas on troubleshooting steps? Thanks in advance.

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#2019 3 years ago

I think I've traced my problem to a single pop bumper solenoid that is taking out the F103 fuse.

I replaced two of the solenoids with new when I rebuilt the machine.

I tried testing with only one bumper connected at a time. The two new solenoids worked fine.

When I tested with the third solenoid(original), the solenoid seized and started smoking.

I inspected the smoking solenoid and switches and I noticed it did not have a diode on it. I added a diode and tried again. F103 fuse blew instantly on start up. The switches for that bumper seem fine (brand new, gap looks correct, nothing obviously shorted).

I tested the solenoid with a multimeter - ohms matched the other two bumpers (10.7).

Any idea what else could cause a single solenoid to seize? I'll probably buy a new one but it would be good to understand why this one is causing problems.

Only other difference - the new coils are AE1-26-1200
The old coil is AE-26-1200

Thanks for any insight

#2022 3 years ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Diode connected the right way?

Yes - checked twice and matched to the other two coils. Note - the original coils in this game do NOT have diodes attached. Adding one last night was my noob attempt to solve the problem.

Quoted from Bublehead:

If you triggered your coil without a diode, the collapsing Em field of the coils can send a voltage spike through the driver causing it to short on, subsequently test the driver for short, and replace the coil and diode (Why did you only rebuild 2 out of 3??).

Again - the factory bumper coils in this game did not have diodes. Why rebuild 2 of 3? The third worked fine before my rebuild and I didn't want to mess anything up.

Quoted from Bublehead:

Look for shorts in the spoon switches

Done - couldn't find any. Brand new spoon and switch, properly gapped, nothing touching anything it's not supposed to

Quoted from Bublehead:

ohm out everything and write it all down... make sure they are wired like factory.

I ohmed all three coils - they read the same (10.7). They're all wired like factory, except that I added pigtails to all three. The two new coils have diodes, the original coil does not, but adding one didn't help.

Quoted from Jmckune:

Transistor shorted.

Would a shorted transistor only affect one of my three bumpers? If I disconnect this one that has an issue, the other two work fine/no blown fuses. If the transistor could still be the problem, how would I know which transistor (I've got a rottendog)? Also, how to test a transistor and what to look for?

#2024 3 years ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

You can do this the dirty way by going into diode test and seeing if there is continuity to ground by touching the tab with one lead and the ground strap with the other. If you get a 0. It’s shorted.

Thanks very much for the info. I tested the transistors the "dirty way" and Q54 reads 0. The others have different non-zero readings.

I found schematics for this board and Q54 looks like it has 12N10L transistor. IRL540 appears to be a replacement for 12N10L.

More googling about IRL540 finds this:
"An FET is not like an ordinary transistor, and the typical tests won't work. Here are some hints. First, the pins. The left pin is the gate. This pin should be electrically isolated from the others. Pin 2 is the source - positive voltage flows in here - and pin 3 is the drain, normally connected to ground.There is an internal diode across pins 2 and 3. This diode protects against kickbacks from coils. Now, here's the problem. The gate is very well insulated. So much so that just touching it can leave enough of a charge that the transistor is turned on. That makes your meter read funny between pins 2 and 3. Sometime one thing, sometimes another.So the only real test that you can do is to look for a connection between pin 1 and pin 2 or pin 3. If you see that, the FET is probably shorted."

There are no connections between the pins on that transistor, no black spots, no obvious damage, etc. Do I trust the multimeter? Once I get a new fuse and solenoid, should I try testing one last time with the new solenoid to confirm the diagnosis or do I risk doing more damage?

If I do replace the transistor, is the fix as simple as desoldering the bad transistor and adding a new one in its place (hopefully without doing any other damage to my board)?

#2026 3 years ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

I haven’t checked but usually these bumper transistors are TIP120 which was replaced by TIP102. That other one sounds like it might be the pre-driver but it’s been a long while since I’ve had to look at the board on my bride.

I found this rottendog schematic for my board. Looks like 12N10L is the transistor for Q54 but as you can tell, I'm a novice. Should I be looking somewhere else on the schematic?

Do the diodes on the board under the transistors have to be changed too?
WDB089_PAGE1.pdfWDB089_PAGE1.pdf

1 week later
#2028 3 years ago

Borrowed a new Rottendog main board to test. All lights on the board are lit, all fuses new and not blown. GI won't light and solenoids still won't fire. Half of the helmet lights are out. Any idea what else might be causing the problems? I'm really hoping to get this thing to work by Thanksgiving. The machine was working fine with an older Rottendog until it had a transistor problem that controls the bumper solenoids. Could the bumper have taken out another board in the backbox or in the cabinet?

#2030 3 years ago

GI, Helmet, solenoids, etc were fixed by adjusting a ribbon cable that was loose when I put in the new board.

Sadly, I'm back to blowing fuses with the bumpers & flippers. Everything else was working fine. I'm going to hire someone to take a look at this point before I do more damage. I imagine I must have done something wrong when I re-populated the playfield & cabinet. Don't want to blow another transistor or worse.

#2035 3 years ago

Finally got my board and bumper issues sorted out. Last two issues -

My outhole kicker is ridiculously strong - every ball is rocketed into position so hard it hits the next ball in queue and flips the wire gate backwards and comes right back to the kicker - rinse and repeat endlessly.

My other issue is trying to adjust the rocket launcher in the shooter lane so it doesn't block the switch above it. That kicker & those switches are a PITA to get adjusted well.

#2038 3 years ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

The wire gate shouldn’t be able to move if you have the apron on.

Thanks - been adjusting switches & trying to get everything working & hadn't put the apron back yet. Makes sense.

#2039 3 years ago

Anyone else ever have this weird head issue? The head tests perfectly in all of the test options, but during the game, if the ball goes into her mouth, it says I can speak, kicks the ball out, and then the music stops and the head never turns to eyes?

1 week later
#2043 3 years ago
Quoted from Boslaw:

Anyone else ever have this weird head issue? The head tests perfectly in all of the test options, but during the game, if the ball goes into her mouth, it says I can speak, kicks the ball out, and then the music stops and the head never turns to eyes?

No one's ever seen this before? Any ideas how to troubleshoot? I also have a weird lighting issue where the 1st light in each matrix column stays lit when testing the rest of the column lights, which is causing weird lighting behavior in game. I've tried switching wires in the backbox from header J206 to J207, and J208 to J209 but that didn't change anything, along with an issue where the solenoid in the skill shot lane only kicks the ball out of the lane about 50% of the time (switches have been been endlessly adjusted). Not sure if the lighting and switch issues are related.

Not sure what else to look at. Could this be a CPU/ROM issue? The bride's head was working fine a few weeks ago and this only started happening after I damaged my previous rottendog driver board.

#2051 3 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Does anybody sell a hardtop for BOP? All I could find are a full playfield decal overlay or just a clear protector. I would love to give her the hardtop treatment.

I recently installed a Buthamburg repro - would be happy to send pics & discuss experience with it.

I also have 2 used playfields that I'd be willing to sell if you're interested in going that route.

#2068 3 years ago

Biglouie

The buthamburg playfields are beautiful but extremely soft- clamping mine to a rotisserie with microfiber cloth padding under the clamps left microfiber pattern in the clear. It’s in a hidden location under the apron and at the back, but be very careful when populating yours. A tiny slip will leave a dent. I even left 8 weeks cure time before clamping mine. For contrast, I recently repainted and re-cleared the Target alpha next to my BoP (see pic) with Spraymax in a can. I didn’t have the same issues with the clear- spraymax was hard as a rock the day after I sprayed. None of that would stop me from buying the buthamburg. The quality is still top notch compared to other repros.

Also- if you haven’t already, check out Rad Cals for the BoP. They’re very easy to apply and I think they add some nice shine to this game. I believe they come in black or purple.

I have tons of pics from my restore if you need them when repopulating yours. Just send a DM.

08CAECB6-B8D0-414D-B370-FAF1D8096F32 (resized).jpeg08CAECB6-B8D0-414D-B370-FAF1D8096F32 (resized).jpeg
#2070 3 years ago

I agree- and peter offers fantastic customer service. Just saying- heed all warnings to wait and let the playfield fully cure.

On a separate note, in case anyone else ever runs across the weird BoP head issue I was having, although all switches in the game registered correctly, there must have been some issue with the second switch after the ball rolls out of the head. I noticed that the head started working again when I pulled those wires, so I replaced the switch. All good now.

The issues I was having with the skill shot switches was resolved by adjusting the switch directly in front of the plunger. I didn’t realize that pressing and releasing that switch is what triggers the solenoid in the skill shot lane to kick.

Last issue remains my lights- all lights test fine but the first light in some light matrix columns remains lit. I tried resoldering the first light first column, checking the molex at the board, checking the diodes at each light. All appears correct. I remain stumped on this issue.

#2073 3 years ago

Duff? If you mean a transistor on the board in the backbox, I don’t think so. Board is new. I have another board that was recently repaired so I may try swapping just to rule it out though.

#2077 3 years ago

It’s worth trying a trying a bulb replacement

1 week later
#2082 3 years ago

1. Yes, the skill shot rubbers are just loose on those spindles.
2. No replacements available that I’m aware of. Someone a few posts back created new clear ones by sandwiching 2 titan rubbers together.
3. No rubber or anything on the skill shot launcher

Put the bulb in the skill shot socket (just above the shooter rod) before you start adding ramps & stuff. A regular bulb that size won’t fit through the hole from the underside and it’s a PITA to try and replace from the top side after everything else is back together.

4 weeks later
#2100 3 years ago

If anyone has good, high res pics of the wiring under their playfield that they could send me I would greatly appreciate it. I'm especially looking for clear pics of the wiring to the various light boards by the outlanes, but I want to compare all of my wiring to a known working BoP to see if there's anything out of place.

Thanks!

#2102 3 years ago

Thanks. I'm just trying to compare known good wiring with mine to see if there's something non-obvious that's different about mine that could cause all of the trouble I've had getting everything to work correctly.

#2104 3 years ago
Quoted from Morinack:

LMK if you want something specific. This is just what i had in my archive.
Easy enough to lift the PF for a few glamor shots.

Thanks!

2 weeks later
#2133 3 years ago

I have purple non-ghosting LED's in my helmet. They work and look great. No pinduino in mine.

#2136 3 years ago

I think I've narrowed down one of the problems with my BoP to the head relay board. I've seen posts about reflowing the solder, and read a bit online but I've never done this before. Do I really put the relay and board into the oven at 100deg and raise to 220 for 2 min? Is there any way to test the relay/board? I can get the head to rotate manually in the test menu, but lately the head has been skipping the eyes face after getting the ball in her mouth. I'm a little nervous to pop this thing in the oven since you can't seem to buy them anymore.

#2146 3 years ago
Quoted from Biglouie:

I think that covers oven baked relays..
Any thoughts on the shooter and skill shot BoP owners?
Never gets over 50k and 75k and the entire thing has been rebuilt. I guess it's spring or I need to align the ramp to hit less of the first black ring?

Reflowed my relay this morning with a soldering iron Seems to have done the trick.

Could the whole roller mechanism be too tight or too loose so the rollers are either not rolling enough or rolling too much or maybe the wireframe is bent so it's too close to the rollers? Can you roll the ball to the top by hand? Spring replacement is easier so try that first, but I would check the whole roller mech next.

#2149 3 years ago

Thought so. Played great for a dozen games. Now it tests fine in test mode, but starts every game on the eyes. This BoP has more issues than any other pinball I've had!

#2151 3 years ago
Quoted from Biglouie:

Have you had the head apart? Face off?
Could they be in wrong order? I had this with mine, I had them wrong way round so calibration didn't work.
Also, mine used to stick because the lamps inside the eyes would catch inside on the face panels too. Had to change those

No, I'm pretty sure they're in the right order and nothing is catching. My Bride is a bit schizo.

For a while, the face wasn't working as a result of a problem with the 1st switch in the wire frame after the ball exits her mouth. That switch wasn't registering every time. The ball would leave her eyes, then the music would stop and both balls would be locked. I replaced that switch and after much adjusting, got it to trigger the face to the next phase correctly.

Then, the face started skipping the eyes during games. I reflowed the solder on the relay board and all was good.

Now, the face always starts on eyes at the beginning of a game, even though every face tests correctly when I cycle the face in test mode. The switch registers correctly on all but the last face during tests.

My next step will be to make sure the switch insider her face is wired correctly (I believe it's supposed to be wired differently than the other switches in the game).

#2153 3 years ago

That would be great if you've got yours disassembled already. If not, no worries. I think there are some pics of that switch somewhere on pinside.

#2155 3 years ago

Are the switches in the wire frame below her mouth testing fine with a ball when you drop it right below her mouth, as opposed to testing with your finger or testing with the ball just above the switch? That's one of the problems I had early on - the switch would test fine when I pressed it with my finger, and even sometimes when I rolled a ball over it, but when I rolled the ball from her mouth, it rarely ever tested correctly. I still have to adjust it occasionally to get it to trigger consistently.

#2158 3 years ago

Biglouie Thanks for those pics. Very clear. Depending on when I get done with work tonight I'm going to check to see if the diode in her head is oriented correctly.

Opened her face, diode and wiring are correct. Manual Head rotation tested perfectly. Switch registering correctly on every face. Took the roller arm off the switch and added it back. Problem is now gone. This is the most finicky pinball machine ever.

2 weeks later
#2169 3 years ago

A few months ago I posted that I was looking for gate #A-14372 for my BoP. It's a one-way gate that is no longer available.

I got a metal shop to make up 15 of them. They will sell for $15 ea + shipping (excludes the wire, which IS actually avail from Marco and others, or you can bend yourself). Price is high because they used expensive equipment time for a limited run.

The gate I'm talking about is seen in the video at the following linked post:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bop-clubnon-20/page/38#post-5573313

I'm using one and the fit and operation are perfect - stops a lot of SDTM drops from the pops area.

PM me if you're interested.

11 months later
#2252 2 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

I need help with one spot on the playfield [quoted image]

See these pics. You're missing some parts

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1 year later
#2558 1 year ago

I have a Rottendog WPC98 board I my BoP with a remote battery pack. Lately the machine is losing its settings and resetting to factory when I power off. I've replaced the AA batteries but the problem persists. Any idea on what the problem is?

#2560 1 year ago

Thanks, I’ll check all of those things. Does the remote holder require a diode? The holder that came with this game was a simple 3 AA battery holder with 2 leads but I’ve seen some other AA holders in pins with a diode.

#2562 1 year ago

little worried about soldering/desoldering. My board soldering skills are not good.

#2567 1 year ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Not so fast. Yes, you definitely need to have good tools but you also need practice.

Yes, I’m very handy and done plenty of basic soldering, but I also ruined pads on the first board I tried to work on and if I can easily replace a battery pack vs potentially screwing up a board, I’m probably doing the former at this point. I think I need more practice before I approach the real think and potentially damage a $200+ board.

Quoted from AlexRogan84:

Post a picture of how your remote battery holder is plugged in.

The battery pack that came with the machine was a standard up/down/up battery pack (confirmed by the [positive & negative signs on the pack itself). There are no wooden dowels anywhere. Just plastic with 2 wire leads that screw into the positive & negative terminals on the board. The wires are extremely tiny so I tried re-stripping and re-plugging them in to confirm that they had good contact. No change. My next stop will be to try testing voltage, and then to buy a new battery holder. If those steps don’t work I’ll be back here for more advice

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Toys/Add-ons
$ 150.00
Displays
Digipinball Shop
Displays
From: $ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
$ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
$ 54.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Lighted Pinball Mods
Shooter rods
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

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