How can I test to verify my motor is spinning in both directions? Seems like mine is only spinning in one direction.

Thanks

Motor direction is controlled by solenoid driver 27 if you head is spinning in only one direction then the driver for solenoid 27 might be blown, but if you hear the relay pick up and you short pins 5 and 6 on J2 on the relay board to ground then the head should spin and toggling solenoid 27 should change direction. if toggling it causes the motor to stop then replace the relay because it's the only thing that can be wrong with the exception of something mechnical preventing the Geneva mechanism to freely spin the head.

Is anyone using the Rottendog drive board in there bride

Yes I have a new one in mine.

I have had one in mine for a few years now. Works good so far

I’ve read in at least a couple of cases that the Rottendog board doesn’t play well with the helmet lights, are your all’s still working?

yes I have one in mine, been 3 plus years and no problems whatsoever.

I don't have mine running yet but thank you for your comments it was already taken apart so its been a puzzle I can't wait to play it

I finally got the slo blow fuses I ordered and promptly blew 5 of them. I am continually blowing F101 when I press my right flipper button (which is weird because is supposedly for Left Flipper) and F103 when I press my Right Flipper button. F102 also occasionally blows.

Read about an error on Rottendog boards that causes left to register as right & vice versa. I assume this is the version of the board I have and no one ever bothered to fix it. I don't think that's the cause of my fuse issue because the machine was working with this board before my tear down and rebuild.

I've double checked my flipper wiring and it seems correct.

F103 always blows on start up unless I disconnect my jet bumpers.

Flippers and bumpers are all rebuilt so I'm sure I've done something wrong. Just can't figure out what.

I tried following pinwiki with a multimeter for my flippers to check that they're finding a path to ground and that they are wired correctly and everything seems to check out/

Final weird problem - my outhole solenoid is too strong - it keeps slamming the third ball into the others and sending the ball straight back to the solenoid in an endless loop.

Any ideas on troubleshooting steps? Thanks in advance.

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Nice cold rainy day to work on this... J2 pins 4 and 7 only have 3.45V at the pins. Same at the driver for the motor. All this talk about RottenDog boards made me head right up to J122 plug on the Rottendog. Seems J122-1, 2 and 3 are at 12V. J122-4 (Head motor 28 Blu-Yel) is at 3.45V. So it seems like power from the Rottendog is not at 12V for Solenoid 28. This is a brand new board purchased for the restore from K’s Arcade.

Why would it work for a few months then die out? Also I was thinking that since pins 5 and 6 are at 12V and are unused on BOP. Think it would be ok to just move the 4 to 5 to get this moving or just try to go with a warranty claim or repair?

You can try the warranty route. Although I’m not sure how far you’ll get with K as I’ve seen quite a few experiences with him recently.

I havent opened the hood of my BOP yet, but I thought the +12v comes from a motor regulator board, and it is supplied from +20V and is regulated down to higher current/lower voltage. The idea, or so it would seem is to be certain you always have a known +12 V at the motor at all times so that when it is turning, power supply fluctuations don't change the head rotation time due to changes in power supply load. The head is calibrated and they time the total head roatation time from Home switch off to home swith off, and then divide this time by 4 and now you know how long (approximately) it takes to switch each face on the head, letting the Geneva mechanism take up the timing "slack" in it's mechnically pulsed motion. So as to not get out of sync during game play, the motor regulator minimizes timing drift. Take a look at page 3-3 in the operator manual for the schmatic.

Now why would it work and then fail? If they wired the 12V from the rottendog supply, the 12 V driver may not have a high enough rating for the inrush current on motor startup, and over time this causes the overworked p/s channel to fail? Who knows... But I would check my motor regulator board and it's supply. Not familiar with the Rottendog board, but the original BOP schmatics show the head motor +12v coming from +20v through the motor regulator board (A-13892-2) which takes it down to +12v

I have stopped for the moment. K’s said there is no warranty due to problems caused by motors etc. He said to check the transistor Q20 using the diode test on the MMeter.. Not sure what values I am looking for to determine if it is burnt out. I’m thinking At this point of just putting in my original driver board From the machine in to rule out the RG board. Thank you Bublehead for the replies and help! I have read the manual a few times already but these extra posts are excellent for trouble shooting.

I removed the brand new Rottendog board and put in the original one tonight. Sure enough the motor works great and it is 12V at the test point indicated above. I am going to replace the Q20 transistor on the Rottendog but I am not sure why it failed in the 1st place and if it will be an ongoing issue forever.

As for the original board it has some GI lighting out and some trace repairs on the back of the board, nothing major but should I just refresh the OE board and keep it with BOP? Caps and rectifiers already replaced anyways. Any comments on which route I should take for reliability >>>?

I purchased the Rottendog for just this purpose, trouble free operation for many years. But I am thinking twice about this now...

Yes. Keep the original. As you can see the reproductions are no more reliable and in some cases worse. You likely have a failed triac if you’re having GI issues.

I bought a Rottendog driver board for a JD project machine some years back and had issues with that also, which has led me to steer clear of them ever since. My thoughts at the time was that i just got unlucky with a possible dodgy new board but since then have heard of quite a few disappointing reports

I would stay with OEM board and repair the RD board for a temporary backup like during an armegedon, or apocolypse, night before a big tornament, or some other time-crunchy unanticipated disaster. Glad to help when I can.

Sounds like a plan!

I think I've traced my problem to a single pop bumper solenoid that is taking out the F103 fuse.

I replaced two of the solenoids with new when I rebuilt the machine.

I tried testing with only one bumper connected at a time. The two new solenoids worked fine.

When I tested with the third solenoid(original), the solenoid seized and started smoking.

I inspected the smoking solenoid and switches and I noticed it did not have a diode on it. I added a diode and tried again. F103 fuse blew instantly on start up. The switches for that bumper seem fine (brand new, gap looks correct, nothing obviously shorted).

I tested the solenoid with a multimeter - ohms matched the other two bumpers (10.7).

Any idea what else could cause a single solenoid to seize? I'll probably buy a new one but it would be good to understand why this one is causing problems.

Only other difference - the new coils are AE1-26-1200
The old coil is AE-26-1200

Thanks for any insight

Transistor shorted.

Diode connected the right way? If you triggered your coil without a diode, the collapsing Em field of the coils can send a voltage spike through the driver causing it to short on, subsequently test the driver for short, and replace the coil and diode (Why did you only rebuild 2 out of 3??). Look for shorts in the spoon switches, ohm out everything and write it all down... make sure they are wired like factory. I am a proponent of if it’s not broke, replace it anyways philosophy

Yes - checked twice and matched to the other two coils. Note - the original coils in this game do NOT have diodes attached. Adding one last night was my noob attempt to solve the problem.

Again - the factory bumper coils in this game did not have diodes. Why rebuild 2 of 3? The third worked fine before my rebuild and I didn't want to mess anything up.

Done - couldn't find any. Brand new spoon and switch, properly gapped, nothing touching anything it's not supposed to

I ohmed all three coils - they read the same (10.7). They're all wired like factory, except that I added pigtails to all three. The two new coils have diodes, the original coil does not, but adding one didn't help.

Would a shorted transistor only affect one of my three bumpers? If I disconnect this one that has an issue, the other two work fine/no blown fuses. If the transistor could still be the problem, how would I know which transistor (I've got a rottendog)? Also, how to test a transistor and what to look for?

Yes. A shorted Transistor would absolutely cause just one bumper to lock on. If they all shared the same one, they would all fire at the same time. I’m not certain if rottendog follows the same schematics as the original but on the original board the jet bumper transistors are Q58(Upper Left), Q54(Upper Right), and Q50(Lower). You can do this the dirty way by going into diode test and seeing if there is continuity to ground by touching the tab with one lead and the ground strap with the other. If you get a 0. It’s shorted. Or you could do it the right way which involves probing all 3 legs but that method is a little harder to explain.

Thanks very much for the info. I tested the transistors the "dirty way" and Q54 reads 0. The others have different non-zero readings.

I found schematics for this board and Q54 looks like it has 12N10L transistor. IRL540 appears to be a replacement for 12N10L.

More googling about IRL540 finds this:
"An FET is not like an ordinary transistor, and the typical tests won't work. Here are some hints. First, the pins. The left pin is the gate. This pin should be electrically isolated from the others. Pin 2 is the source - positive voltage flows in here - and pin 3 is the drain, normally connected to ground.There is an internal diode across pins 2 and 3. This diode protects against kickbacks from coils. Now, here's the problem. The gate is very well insulated. So much so that just touching it can leave enough of a charge that the transistor is turned on. That makes your meter read funny between pins 2 and 3. Sometime one thing, sometimes another.So the only real test that you can do is to look for a connection between pin 1 and pin 2 or pin 3. If you see that, the FET is probably shorted."

There are no connections between the pins on that transistor, no black spots, no obvious damage, etc. Do I trust the multimeter? Once I get a new fuse and solenoid, should I try testing one last time with the new solenoid to confirm the diagnosis or do I risk doing more damage?

If I do replace the transistor, is the fix as simple as desoldering the bad transistor and adding a new one in its place (hopefully without doing any other damage to my board)?

That is your likely culprit even though it’s not 100%. It is as simple as desoldering and adding a new one. The transistor is the path to ground and if your bumper is locking on it has a permanent path to ground via the transistor. The proper way to test is by touching the three legs but even if one tests good it’s not always good. The fact that your other two are giving a non 0 number with the tab method is a pretty good indication that the transistor currently in that spot has degraded and likely failed.

Also if you haven’t done board work before it would not be a bad idea to find someone to help you with it. These boards are expensive and if you are worried about damaging it, it would be worth seeing if anyone in your area was more comfortable with doing it.

I haven’t checked but usually these bumper transistors are TIP120 which was replaced by TIP102. That other one sounds like it might be the pre-driver but it’s been a long while since I’ve had to look at the board on my bride.

I found this rottendog schematic for my board. Looks like 12N10L is the transistor for Q54 but as you can tell, I'm a novice. Should I be looking somewhere else on the schematic?

Do the diodes on the board under the transistors have to be changed too?
WDB089_PAGE1.pdf

Depending on how how much damage occurred to the circuit it is possible the diode needs changed too. Sometimes just the main transistor goes out and other times the driver pre driver and diode all get blown

Borrowed a new Rottendog main board to test. All lights on the board are lit, all fuses new and not blown. GI won't light and solenoids still won't fire. Half of the helmet lights are out. Any idea what else might be causing the problems? I'm really hoping to get this thing to work by Thanksgiving. The machine was working fine with an older Rottendog until it had a transistor problem that controls the bumper solenoids. Could the bumper have taken out another board in the backbox or in the cabinet?

Soo to recap using borrowed board.

- No fuses blow when a game is started
- GI in PF, BB or both?
- 1 side of helmet? Which side?
- Solenoids meaning jet bumpers Sol 9,11,13 or others?

Anything else not working?

GI, Helmet, solenoids, etc were fixed by adjusting a ribbon cable that was loose when I put in the new board.

Sadly, I'm back to blowing fuses with the bumpers & flippers. Everything else was working fine. I'm going to hire someone to take a look at this point before I do more damage. I imagine I must have done something wrong when I re-populated the playfield & cabinet. Don't want to blow another transistor or worse.

...

Looking for opinions; what goes best..... red or blue pop bumpers?? Anyone got some photos of blue? Thanks guys.

I went for blue as well, like it a lot!

Finally got my board and bumper issues sorted out. Last two issues -

My outhole kicker is ridiculously strong - every ball is rocketed into position so hard it hits the next ball in queue and flips the wire gate backwards and comes right back to the kicker - rinse and repeat endlessly.

My other issue is trying to adjust the rocket launcher in the shooter lane so it doesn't block the switch above it. That kicker & those switches are a PITA to get adjusted well.

The wire gate shouldn’t be able to move if you have the apron on.

Thanks - been adjusting switches & trying to get everything working & hadn't put the apron back yet. Makes sense.

Anyone else ever have this weird head issue? The head tests perfectly in all of the test options, but during the game, if the ball goes into her mouth, it says I can speak, kicks the ball out, and then the music stops and the head never turns to eyes?

I went Red, Blue, and Purple.
I'm just like that.

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Unless you’re picky the cliffy will negate the need for an entire new ramp. My shuttle ramp is broken pretty good and the cliffy has made it flawless. No damage over a year later

No one's ever seen this before? Any ideas how to troubleshoot? I also have a weird lighting issue where the 1st light in each matrix column stays lit when testing the rest of the column lights, which is causing weird lighting behavior in game. I've tried switching wires in the backbox from header J206 to J207, and J208 to J209 but that didn't change anything, along with an issue where the solenoid in the skill shot lane only kicks the ball out of the lane about 50% of the time (switches have been been endlessly adjusted). Not sure if the lighting and switch issues are related.

Not sure what else to look at. Could this be a CPU/ROM issue? The bride's head was working fine a few weeks ago and this only started happening after I damaged my previous rottendog driver board.

My ramps were remuddled as well.
I went with new ramps and a new eggcrate and added cliffy protectors to them as well.
Totally worth it.
And yes it is always one more improvement with the Bride.

Here’s mine, the heartbeat wasn’t broken on mine but shuttle was. Cliffys really help!

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Yeah, planking is real
The fact that the Bride's PF is white and light grey makes the swirls, planking, and dimple marks all the more visible.
Be careful with the micro sponges as they eventually lift paint.

Love to see your before/after pics.

Joined the club! The game had batteries in it that expired in 2013 and luckily no acid damage

Fixes so far are a new GI connector, reflowed solder on relay board to fix intermittent head issues, installed NVRAM, LEDs and new rubbers.

The playfield is just ok, but has a few small areas worn down to bare wood and it's pretty flaky. Does anybody sell a hardtop for BOP? All I could find are a full playfield decal overlay or just a clear protector. I would love to give her the hardtop treatment.

I'm fairly sure that Buthamburg are redoing the repro PF's again. They are very, very good