(Topic ID: 132740)

BOP Club...non 2.0


By MustangPaul

4 years ago



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There are 1805 posts in this topic. You are on page 25 of 37.
#1201 2 years ago
Quoted from Triplecdad:

Okay, I agree. I happen to live in the same town as lyonsden, and well, he has been extremely helpful. Just purchased a BOP, so I am in the club. Have not started the restoration except did purchase a playfield from Peter in Germany and the new cabinet decals. I too, have never restored a pin, but lyonsden has provided excellent advice and guidance. Someone else who has been helpful is my friend at work a true woodworker, a craftsman. I showed him pictures of my cabinet and backbox where the edges are really rough in spots. He suggested a woodworker's trick - using car bondo. I will let you know how that works.

Hey Welcome to the club. I'm in the same boat as you, got all the major parts but don't have the time right now for my restore.

#1202 2 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

...if you have a very beat up corner, you may want to use something stronger (fiberglass and resin) otherwise a bump on the corner while moving the machine can cause the bondo to pop out.

I have never tried it but could you drill pilot holes, put in a few screws partially into the corner you are repairing, and use them as anchors that the bondo would then adhere to? Seems like that might just hold the Bondo permanently to the machine.

#1203 2 years ago
Quoted from Fourbyracer:

I have never tried it but could you drill pilot holes, put in a few screws partially into the corner you are repairing, and use them as anchors that the bondo would then adhere to? Seems like that might just hold the Bondo permanently to the machine.

That is exactly what you do, but use fiberglass and resin rather than bondo. Vid (of course!) has a guide and some great photos: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cabinet-restoration-vids-guide#post-2546333

Also, if you are doing a BoP cabient, here are the notes I took when doing mine:

cabinet:
* decal removal: heat gun and wide putty knife
* sand with 60 or 100
* Wood filler: Minwax 12 OZ High Performance Wood Filler 2 Component; Kwikwood http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/pinball-restoration/tutorials-and-techniques/99-patching-wood
* Bad corners: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cabinet-restoration-vids-guide#post-2546333
* block sand with 200
* Wood filler glaze: dolphin glaze
* primer: Rustoleum
* paint: Rustoleum Satin Black or Semi-Gloss
* block sand with 320
* block sand with 600 before stickers
* http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/pinball-restoration/cabinet/227-repainting-cabinet-screens
* metal screen: Rustoleum cold galvanizing compound
* inside: foam carpet cleaner http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/pinball-restoration/cabinet/101-cleaning-inside-of-cabinet

coin-door:


* main: semi-flat black (krylon)
* speckles: gloss black (rustolem painters touch)
* bleach-white and brushes for cleaning
* scuff with red scotch bright pad
* wipe with tack cloth before painting

legs: http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/pinball-restoration/cabinet/176-removing-rust-from-pinball-legs

#1204 2 years ago
#1205 2 years ago

Just a few thoughts to toss out to the Bride's faithful.

I found that the RH loop lights would not activate. I checked the connector and they would activate and then after a game or two, extinguish. I figured that this would be the time to try my hand at reflowing the solder on the pins as it probably had some cold joints. Since it is a small pcb, it was easy to get out and sure enough......3 cold joints. It was not hard at all to flow them with a new soldering iron. I kick myself for not buying a nice upgraded one years ago. Installation made it clear that the problem was the joints as it now lights up just great.

Now I have the problem of lamp 22 not working. It hasn't worked since I got the game and I need to trace its problem out. This is the light under the insert for the Billion....not the big flasher but the top lamp in the circle. I looked in the backbox at the J133 and J137 connectors to make sure they were seated and that wire #2 on both appeared fine. I changed the bulb with a known good one but no love. It was late and I buttoned things up for the night. More to come....it bugs me....lol.

Plastic protectors under your plastic pieces work well and look nice. However, they can have clearance problems with gate wires and spinning targets. I had to trim the wire gate end on the Jet Entrance...the one that makes the ball move to the side when coming back down. Its end would hang on the protector near it if it moved to the far side. Easy fix. Now I see that my heavy spinning target (in the same Jet Entrance) will actually spin over to one side and lay up on a protector edge. Again, easy fix but it has taken a dozen games for the problem to pop up. I should have moved everything around and checked when installing them but you know how it goes.....pretty shiny things....must play.

Finally......I got my high score today at 47,356,680 and it felt good....even with my lamp 22 dead to the world. I never made it to Metamorphosis once but the loop combos were insane. The playfield and backbox were a hoot when everything starts flashing....made me glad that I went to LED's and silicone rubber for the posts and flippers. Good times!

#1206 2 years ago
Quoted from Catalyze:

Just a few thoughts to toss out to the Bride's faithful.
I found that the RH loop lights would not activate. I checked the connector and they would activate and then after a game or two, extinguish. I figured that this would be the time to try my hand at reflowing the solder on the pins as it probably had some cold joints. Since it is a small pcb, it was easy to get out and sure enough......3 cold joints. It was not hard at all to flow them with a new soldering iron. I kick myself for not buying a nice upgraded one years ago. Installation made it clear that the problem was the joints as it now lights up just great.
Now I have the problem of lamp 22 not working. It hasn't worked since I got the game and I need to trace its problem out. This is the light under the insert for the Billion....not the big flasher but the top lamp in the circle. I looked in the backbox at the J133 and J137 connectors to make sure they were seated and that wire #2 on both appeared fine. I changed the bulb with a known good one but no love. It was late and I buttoned things up for the night. More to come....it bugs me....lol.
Plastic protectors under your plastic pieces work well and look nice. However, they can have clearance problems with gate wires and spinning targets. I had to trim the wire gate end on the Jet Entrance...the one that makes the ball move to the side when coming back down. Its end would hang on the protector near it if it moved to the far side. Easy fix. Now I see that my heavy spinning target (in the same Jet Entrance) will actually spin over to one side and lay up on a protector edge. Again, easy fix but it has taken a dozen games for the problem to pop up. I should have moved everything around and checked when installing them but you know how it goes.....pretty shiny things....must play.
Finally......I got my high score today at 47,356,680 and it felt good....even with my lamp 22 dead to the world. I never made it to Metamorphosis once but the loop combos were insane. The playfield and backbox were a hoot when everything starts flashing....made me glad that I went to LED's and silicone rubber for the posts and flippers. Good times!

Good to see your sorting your problems out and having a blast with your game. Good score too.

#1207 2 years ago

BOP 2.0 kit shipping update.

Cointaker called me 2 days ago and said my BOP 2.0 was shipping that day! I was in the group of the last 5 or so from the original 50 from the 3rd run (placed my order in May at the Allentown show). So sounds like there is only a few more kits left to ship and they should be caught up. Melissa said they were going to do 1 more run of about 25 kits but this time have the kits built and ready to ship before selling them. That sounds like a good plan to me so nobody else has to go through all the waiting and wondering, like we have.

Still excited to get it after 7 months, fingers crossed.

#1208 2 years ago
Quoted from Fourbyracer:

Melissa said they were going to do 1 more run of about 25 kits but this time have the kits built and ready to ship before selling them.

theres going to be a batch 4 then ???

#1209 2 years ago
Quoted from mollyspub:

theres going to be a batch 4 then ???

It would appear so, though you won't be able to purchase it until it's actually ready. Curious how fast it sells out.

#1210 2 years ago

Hopefully they can ship them more smoothly with the next batch.

#1211 2 years ago

Hey folks. Anyone know where the two metal "post-spacer #8x1" (part 02-4434) go?

This is the part I'm referring to:

IMG_4901 (resized).JPG

The parts list show two, my playfield only had one, here,in the center of this photo:

IMG_4900 (resized).JPG

However, I noticed that HEP's playfields seem to not have any, and instead, at that location, has this part:

IMG_4902 (resized).JPG

Just trying to get this back to the original layout. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

#1212 2 years ago

I have only found 1 metal item as you show in the top photo. Of course mine is nowhere close to that clean/shiny. Something that I am curious about is whether you use an individual rubber ring on yours or a two post loop rubber. I have seen both ways.

#1213 2 years ago
Quoted from Catalyze:

I have only found 1 metal item as you show in the top photo. Of course mine is nowhere close to that clean/shiny. Something that I am curious about is whether you use an individual rubber ring on yours or a two post loop rubber. I have seen both ways.

May I ask where yours was located? I'm trying to figure out where they were intended to be.

#1214 2 years ago

This is a photo that I took as I was getting ready to replace my ramps. If you look just to the Right of the Apple Leaf, you can see where mine is mounted. It had a machine screw on top holding the skill shot plastic down. The very Left side of the skill shot plastic (left of the shuttle) was fastened down and the ramp sagged down on it and was wearing through the decal of the snake/apple and the plastic ramp.

DSCN2826 (resized).JPG

#1215 2 years ago

Oh....and I forgot to ask if you use a big rubber ring (like mine is above) to connect the blue plastic post to the metal post. Or.....do you use a separate rubber ring on each? I have seen both ways and would switch mine to the separate rings like the left outlane setup has.

#1216 2 years ago
Quoted from Catalyze:

Oh....and I forgot to ask if you use a big rubber ring (like mine is above) to connect the blue plastic post to the metal post. Or.....do you use a separate rubber ring on each? I have seen both ways and would switch mine to the separate rings like the left outlane setup has.

Understand that when I received this machine to restore, many things were damaged or in the wrong place. This being said, as you can see from this photo, the two were not connected when I got the machine:

IMG_4436 (resized).JPG

It would seem you have that same metal part in the same place where it was located on my machine. That tends to imply it's supposed to be there, and HEP was just improving upon the original layout (or basing it on a previous machine). That is also supported by this rubber layout that came with my rubber kit:

IMG_4912 (resized).JPG

The letter C refers to a 5/16" rubber ring. This is the most common rubber in the kit, just a single ring around that post. The letter J refers to "Midi Post Rubbers," those are the super small ones that go around posts like the red ones on the upper playfield.

That leaves one more spacer of the same type that is, in theory, supposed to go somewhere else. Any ideas anyone?

Meanwhile, I'm happy to say we've made some real progress (with the exception of that post). I'm proud of these countersinked fin shank nails:

IMG_4905 (resized).JPG

We have most of the posts and the rails on at this point:

IMG_4907 (resized).JPG

#1217 2 years ago

You have done great things with your bare playfield! When it came to rubber on my two posts over there.....the blue plastic post and the metal post.....they are two different sizes. The plastic post was a normal 5/16" id rubber. The metal post was smaller and the same rubber would just flop around on it. I looked in the BoP manual and saw that a different part number was listed for 4 rubbers on the playfield. According to Marco Specialties site, it is a 27/64 or 7/16" od ring : http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/38-2764 I need to
order one for that post so that if I ever get the energy to pull the ramp off again, I can put the correct rings on and get rid of the big looping ring. I think the Williams number for that metal post is 23-6535

#1218 2 years ago
Quoted from Catalyze:

Oh....and I forgot to ask if you use a big rubber ring (like mine is above) to connect the blue plastic post to the metal post. Or.....do you use a separate rubber ring on each? I have seen both ways and would switch mine to the separate rings like the left outlane setup has.

Mine has a bigger one around both posts too. Seems odd given that the plastic post's position is adjustable. Might look into putting individual rings on at some point...

Quoted from Catalyze:

This is a photo that I took as I was getting ready to replace my ramps. If you look just to the Right of the Apple Leaf, you can see where mine is mounted. It had a machine screw on top holding the skill shot plastic down. The very Left side of the skill shot plastic (left of the shuttle) was fastened down and the ramp sagged down on it and was wearing through the decal of the snake/apple and the plastic ramp.

Same on mine as well. After installing plastic protectors, the nut was even higher than before (and it was already scuffing up at a lower position). I ended up putting a regular nut on the post instead of a lock nut (regular nut is a few mm shorter than lock nut) along with a small piece of foam/fabric between the top of the nut and the ramp to keep it from scuffing up a newly installed decal. Seems to be working.

And speaking of rings, I put standard white rubber ones on the posts by the outlanes to replace purple silicone ones (these were a pita to remove) and this is coinciding with one of the poorest months of scores I've had in a while. I don't have any stats on ball drains, but I may have to go back to the silicone ones.

#1219 2 years ago

LOL......On my Left outlane, there was a big looping ring and not individual ones. I changed them over and my left hand drains have gone way down. The ball seems more lively with the individual rings and less of a dead hit and fall down the drain. I agree that the silicone small post rubbers are not fun to remove. They don't seem to just roll off the post. I may try silicone rings on that side just for fun.

#1220 2 years ago

Joined the club Friday with a nice condition BOP. It needs the mylar removed b/c it's bubbled on the inserts, but that terrifies me, don't want to damage the paint on the PF. I am on the waitlist for a repro PF, so I might go at it with the freeze it and pull method. I'll be 2.0'ing it, but intend to save the CPU board incase someone else ever wants to convert it back for some reason. Right now just having fun playing it, it's a lot of fun!

#1221 2 years ago

Hey welcome to the club. If the mylar is bubbled over the inserts it means the mylar glue has dried up from the heat. When the glue dries it gets hard as a rock. My mylar pealed right off, no heat or cold and didn't lift any paint or decals. BUT because the glue was hard as a rock over the inserts that's when the insert decals and paint came off because I had to scrub so hard with the flour and alcohol. Honestly, for the inserts I think it would be better to remove all the inserts, sand them flat to get all the glue and decals off and start from there. This was just my case and it may not have happened to others. Your better off just leaving the mylar on and make a wall hanger out of it since you've got a new one coming.

1 week later
#1222 2 years ago

I'm restoring a BoP right now, and I'm having a little bit of difficulty on my new playfield fitting the helmet beneath/beside the left ramp, where the red lens covers one of the helmet blinkers. Could someone post a photo of how those two parts marry each other for me? It would help a great deal.

#1223 2 years ago

Here is a shot of my game before I took it apart for ramp replacement and clean up. The small plastic piece is one that I have seen turned both directions. Make sure that the red domes are fastened with the lip on the "inside" of the helmet. Fastened on the outside, they will be too long for clearance.

Upper Playfield Large (resized).jpg

#1224 2 years ago
Quoted from Catalyze:

Make sure that the red domes are fastened with the lip on the "inside" of the helmet. Fastened on the outside, they will be too long for clearance.

Don't tell me you put them on the outside.

#1225 2 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Don't tell me you put them on the outside.

I didn't put the red lenses on the outside, I'm afraid. However, I'm still having difficulty. I'm not sure if it's because my repro playfield has the ramp a bit too close, the ramp is too think, or I've missed the placement of a spacer somewhere. Looking at the photo above, it appears your ramp is a bit closer to the side of the cabinet than mine is, so probably something related to that.

On a different note, I'm struggling to figure out why my head assembly doesn't stay calibrated. I've checked the roller switch, and it properly turns on and off based on the location of the depression in the head. However, if you see this page from the manual:

Screen Shot 2017-01-03 at 8.44.26 PM (resized).png

It's not entirely clear if I'm looking at the assembly from the rear, or from the front. Assuming I'm looking at it from the rear, the mouth plate would be on the right, the eye plate on top, the third face on the left, and the human face on the bottom. However, the holes for mounting the human face don't match properly. What is the correct orientation? I'm hoping I'm missing something obvious. Can anyone offer some guidance?

#1226 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

It's not entirely clear if I'm looking at the assembly from the rear, or from the front.

It looks to me like either top down or bottom up. Which way are the mounting taps fastened? I imagine from the underside of the pf.

#1227 2 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

It looks to me like either top down or bottom up. Which way are the mounting taps fastened? I imagine from the underside of the pf.

Well, I think what I mean is that if you're standing at the rear of the playfield versus the front looking through the assembly. Either way, I can't seem to get the faces to mount as the manual would suggest, as the fourth face doesn't line up.

#1228 2 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

It looks to me like either top down or bottom up. Which way are the mounting taps fastened? I imagine from the underside of the pf.

Also, what do you mean by mounting taps? The holes for mounting the plates?

#1229 2 years ago

You are looking at it from the Rear view as you suggested. Faces 1 and 2 are listed with "stop plates" which would be the plates to keep the balls from dropping through too far. Since the top face (2) has the ball diverter for the eyes, then face 1 is the mouth to the right side.

#1230 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Also, what do you mean by mounting taps? The holes for mounting the plates?

The 6 tabs where the screws hold it onto the pf.....IF they hold it on to the pf. I've never looked at is closely.

#1231 2 years ago
Quoted from Catalyze:

You are looking at it from the Rear view as you suggested. Faces 1 and 2 are listed with "stop plates" which would be the plates to keep the balls from dropping through too far. Since the top face (2) has the ball diverter for the eyes, then face 1 is the mouth to the right side.

Agreed. This is why I'm confused. The way the mounting holes are located, the only way I can make all four plates mount is if I mount the head plate on the diagram's bottom, followed by the eye plate on the diagram's right, the third face on the diagrams top, and the fourth plate on the diagrams left (where there is no depression). The reason is that the holes for the fourth plate are on the opposite corners as the other three, which appears to only be on the side with no depression. I feel like I'm missing something obvious. I tried rotating the side without the depression, but the holes won't line up if I do so.

#1232 2 years ago

This is driving me insane.

First, let me say I'm doing all of this because my BoP seems to not know what face is on, yet the tests all seem to function fine.

The manual must be misprinted or I'm truly, honestly, crazy as a bat.

Please, can someone take a look at this and make sure I have this right?

Note this photo the location of the depressions and the mounting holes:

head_view (resized).jpg

The mounting hole with the arrow pointing to it is located in a position that only allows for the mouth face to be positioned there. The mouth has mounting holes on opposite corners from the other faces, presumably to ensure that you don't install a face on the wrong side.

The challenge is that if you look at the depressions (indicated by the other arrow), that would be the BOTTOM of the diagram in the manual, which is reserved for face plate four (the human face). Tell me what I'm missing here?

If I install the mouth where it has to go (on the left of the photo), switch 67 assumes that is the human face, correct?

I'm hoping this all has something to do with my system not knowing what face is what.

#1233 2 years ago

I wish that I could help you but I have never seen the face apart before. On the bright side of things, your malfunctioning face mechanism sure is clean and pretty!

#1234 2 years ago

just got rid of mine. sorry.

#1235 2 years ago

The manual seems off to me too unless I too have the orientation wrong.

Faces one through three should have the depressions behind them (that the roller switch goes through) while face four should have no depression for the roller switch. Your description and foto of the correct mounting hole for face one looks to be correct.

if the head isn't staying calibrated, perhaps the roller switch needs adjusting...? What exactly is happening?

And yeah, your bride's head looks way clean!

#1236 2 years ago
Quoted from tfduda:

The manual seems off to me too unless I too have the orientation wrong.
Faces one through three should have the depressions behind them (that the roller switch goes through) while face four should have no depression for the roller switch. Your description and foto of the correct mounting hole for face one looks to be correct.
if the head isn't staying calibrated, perhaps the roller switch needs adjusting...? What exactly is happening?
And yeah, your bride's head looks way clean!

I just restored my bride from the wood up, and I'll proclaim victory once I get this head working properly.

What is happening is that it goes through the "homing" sequence of finding the proper face (the mouth) when you turn on the game or reset it. It stops on the fourth face, which is the human face.

There is no way to mount the mouth face where the human face is, the bracket assembly won't allow it. I checked the switch (67) and ensured it was showing open when on indentations and closed when not on an indentation (this was what the manual says). I'm now trying to see if I could have somehow plugged something in backwards, but everything is keyed so that would be tricky.

#1237 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

I just restored my bride from the wood up, and I'll proclaim victory once I get this head working properly.
What is happening is that it goes through the "homing" sequence of finding the proper face (the mouth) when you turn on the game or reset it. It stops on the fourth face, which is the human face.
There is no way to mount the mouth face where the human face is, the bracket assembly won't allow it. I checked the switch (67) and ensured it was showing open when on indentations and closed when not on an indentation (this was what the manual says). I'm now trying to see if I could have somehow plugged something in backwards, but everything is keyed so that would be tricky.

Ok, I've solved it, so a couple observations for anyone pursuing the same problem:

I've confirmed the manual is wrong in two places. First, it says that the roller switch on the back of the assembly "...must be open when on an indentation and closed when not on an indentation." That is reversed. When I read the manual, I took that as gospel and re-wired the switch when I restored the machine accordingly. Don't do that.

Secondly, the orientation is not correct associating face plates withe the diagram. Mouth, Eyes, and "Last Robot" face go on depression 1, 2, and 3. Human woman goes on the "no depression" side 4.

Third, several posts refer to the switch relay which is mounted under the playfield (not the motor regulator, this switch relay is a smaller PCB). See the post here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bop-face-motor-relay-fix ). This is the fix if it finds home initially and loses track of what face is what.

So, to fix my problem, I had to re-wire the roller switch properly, re-attach the faces properly, and reflow the cold solder joints on the switch relay PCB.

#1238 2 years ago

Congratulations Sir!!!

ReLIFE (resized).png

#1239 2 years ago

Anyone know where this plastic goes?

IMG_5575 (resized).JPG

#1240 2 years ago


Quoted from jsa:Anyone know where this plastic goes?

above the heart ramp curve. can be mounted in 2 different positions.

Added over 3 years ago: incorrect info, stupid ass troll posting BS.

#1241 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Anyone know where this plastic goes?

Just below the right side of the helmet, on top of the ramp.
You can see it in this pic I stole from IPDB.
Nice work!

BOP (resized).jpg

#1242 2 years ago

For anyone interested, our 1.0 project is now complete. I posted photos in this thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bop-father-and-sons-first-restoration/page/9#post-3530201

I love playing it.

#1243 2 years ago

I'm missing a ball trap protector that attaches to the A-14449 assembly on my BOP circled in red in the below picture. I can't find it in the Williams Red book. Anyone know the part number? Can anyone provide the measurements I can use to fabricate one? Thanks!

bophelp (resized).jpg

#1244 2 years ago

I have no ball trap protector on my bop either. Can't remember ever needing one ?

#1245 2 years ago

Well it's nicer looking than the deck screw some moron put in its place on mine.

IMG_1415 (resized).JPG

#1246 2 years ago
Quoted from mavantix:

Well it's nicer looking than the deck screw some moron put in its place on mine.

My BoP had three deck screws on the playfield when I got it. I guess this is a common practice, huh?

#1247 2 years ago
Quoted from mavantix:

Well it's nicer looking than the deck screw some moron put in its place on mine.

Some peoples kids.

#1248 2 years ago

The piece I have there is 5/8" wide and 2 3/4" long. The bend looks to be about 75 degrees. The small bent flange is 1/2" long. Here are some pics to show the mounting hole etc.

Steve

Guide 2 (resized).jpg

Guide1 (resized).jpg

#1249 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

My BoP had three deck screws on the playfield when I got it. I guess this is a common practice, huh?

Too common. Deck screws are an operators favorite repair, cheap and quick, just ugly as hell. hah

Quoted from Fourbyracer:

The piece I have there is 5/8" wide and 2 3/4" long. The bend looks to be about 75 degrees. The small bent flange is 1/2" long. Here are some pics to show the mounting hole etc.
Steve

That's awesome info! Thanks much. Any guess as to how thick it is?

#1250 2 years ago
Quoted from mavantix:

I'm missing a ball trap protector that attaches to the A-14449 assembly on my BOP circled in red in the below picture. I can't find it in the Williams Red book. Anyone know the part number? Can anyone provide the measurements I can use to fabricate one? Thanks!

This is an odd piece especially given that I couldn't recall whether or not my machine has one. Indeed, my BOP doesn't have it either and I can't remember having to need it (although the foto above suggests someone thought it was necessary to add a screw in this location). Given the responses here and my impressions after browsing fotos online, it seems that some machines have it and others don't. Wonder if it was something included on early machines during initial production run and then left off later ones (or vice versa)...?

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