In the current state of the software (1.09 or 1.091 beta) it doesn't make much sense to have any other game strategy than going for the Shuttle MB, maxing the JP, collecting the JPs and the SJPs... wash, rinse, repeat, especially since the Shuttle MB is always just as easy to reach as the first time. That's 15 ramp shots and one scoop shot.

Maybe make the Shuttle MB a bit more difficult after the first time, to balance the scoring? For example, require the player always to lock a ball before lighting another lock from the HB ramp shot. Or require 2 shots for either (or both?) ramps instead of one before a ball is locked.

The modes have worse risk-reward ratio than the Shuttle MB strategy, since you can't (and won't be able to; I've asked DP) stack any modes with the Shuttle MB. In fact, currently a mode just terminates when the Shuttle MB starts. Here's to hope that at a bare minimum a mode would continue after the MB. Maybe modes should be a bit more valuable, too, to further balance the scoring? The All Values Doubled is a nice prize - and that you *can* stack - but unfortunately for quite a short time. Since the scoop shot gives nothing while in a mode, why not make it an "Add Time" shot instead?

Currently there's no prize for playing all six (small wheel) modes - IMO there should. The same applies for the PinBot letters.

Another player can steal your locks, and there's not much that can be done without an autoplunger. I suggested DP to add support for a 3rd party autoplunger mod, but they were not comfortable with encouraging physical mods. But what could be done is: when locks have been stolen and two more balls have been locked, start the Shuttle MB when the ball is launched from the Skill Shot lane.

Potential SPOILER ALERT, but already in December 2010 (!) Koen from DP revealed some of their plans for the rulesheet, including stuff that has not been seen yet: http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/dutchpinball/ (search for "Talk us through your new rules so far"). They seem to be in line with what's been promised: big wheel modes, another multiball, video mode, metamorphosis...

Not a rule suggestion, but pressing both flipper buttons should display the last game scores for 10 seconds or so, just like other modern games do with a few unpleasant exceptions. Haven't tested if this was added in 1.091 beta already?

The profiles feature enables some new things as well, such as a "rematch" option after a game: a quick way to start another game with the same number of players, in the same order, or in a "winner first" or a "loser first" order, with just a few presses of a button. For those that do not care for this, it could be disabled from the menu.

A (brief) grace period for the MB would be nice, as suggested above. There are few things more satisfying in pinball than making a certain shot a bit too late but still getting the prize. DP told me earlier that this would not fit well with the exploding shuttle animation, but why not make the shuttle vibrate a few more seconds (more) before exploding.

I also agree that the skill shot light should not stop moving when you launch the ball, but when one of the skill skill shot lane switches register.

Phew, I wish I didn't forget anything on my personal ideas/suggestions list. All or at least most of them I've told DP already in Nov/Dec, and they've appreciated them. Obviously not all of our hopes and wishes will make it in the game, but hopefully they will have enough resources to implement as much as possible, even in the pressure of finishing TBL on time (April, I guess). I'm sure they'll be able to sell more BoP2.0s and also TBLs if they make BoP2.0 the killer game they've promised (wink wink

Ok, I wasn't aware that hardware modifications/additions are required for reading the flipper buttons during the attraction mode. Anyway, what I'm looking for is to see the scores of the last game without waiting for too long - essential in tournaments, for example. But there are other ways to accomplish this: Modern Sterns show the scores on the left side of the screen the whole (?) time, another approach would be simply to just display them more often.

I wouldn't call them different rule sets if the only difference is that:
- without an autoplunger you might need to lock 4-5 balls (another three if the first ball or two were stolen) to start the Shuttle MB, or 3-4 balls if my suggestion materialized to start it already when the ball has been plunged.
- with an autoplunger you always need to lock just 3 balls to start the Shuttle MB.

Additionally, a ball could be plunged automatically after a ball save. A ball save could be also added to the beginning of the Shuttle MB if DP chooses so.

I do too - for old school pinball, including Sys11s. But BoP (1.0 even) is a WPC, and to me BoP2.0 is a modern game. But, that could be easily added as a setting to suit both preferences.

We can agree to disagree on this. I don't think anyone is suggesting a 5 sec grace period, though. Just an extra second (or two, max) is what modern pinball machines typically have, don't they?

Well, obviously it requires *some* work from DP, and I'm not saying this should be a top priority development for them - just discussing ideas and suggestions as the topic stands. But it's not necessarily that much work: Adding a setting for enabling the autoplunger, and if enabled, kicking the ball to the shooter lane and plunging it via the autoplunger when appropriate. Not that much different from the player shooting the ball manually, apart from skipping a few animations or replacing them with something else. Animations, sound calls and putting it all together obviously takes some time, I give you that

Technically, if they really wanted, they could separate scores played with an autoplunger from scores played without. But to my knowledge they haven't done that for 3-ball vs 5-ball, the angle of the playfield, the dirtiness/cleanliness of the playfield, glass on vs off, regular rubber vs superbands... the scores will always be apples vs oranges on different machines, no matter what, but the live scoring is still an excellent addition to the game.

There are several machines that feed the balls to the flippers, but still have a ball save on the MB start. Scared Stiff Coffin MB for one, Getaway for another, TSPP for yet another? Why this would be a problem for BoP2.0? Again, we can agree to disagree: you'd like your BoP2.0 "Sys11 style", I'd like it "WPC/Stern" style.

Stealing the locks is fine for casual play. For tournament play - I've understood - not so much. See http://papa.org/learning-center/director-resources/directors/game-notes/ for example.

alveolus and myself were talking about a grace period for the multiball, not for the modes, and there's no timer for the multiball. Re-reading the thread I realize that markmon suggested "a short grace period on everything". We might have been discussing two different things.

Come to think of it, a brief grace period wouldn't hurt (some of?) the modes either. A 30 sec mode + 1 or 2 sec grace period is the same thing as a 32 sec mode for the software but a there's a psychological difference for the player. As I wrote earlier, there are few things more satisfying in pinball than making a certain shot a bit too late but still getting the prize. Makes you feel you got something that you quite didn't really deserve. A bit like chipping a golf ball to the green a bit too hard, but hitting the pole and sinking the ball, or a last-second throw from your own field half in basketball... in lack of a better analogies

Obviously there wouldn't be a ball save for the mb unless the autoplunger is enabled in the settings. I guess you could ease the game significantly if you do that without having one installed, but where's the fun in that. It would be a bit like disconnecting an autoplunger in another game that has it from factory, in order to get the same advantage you describe above. The software could detect this only to some extent; in BoP2.0 the software would expect one of the skill shot lane switches to register soon after the autoplunger solenoid has been fired.

I read that article so that lock stealing discourages tournament directors from choosing those games to tournaments, but it's not a deal breaker though.

Locking the ball is easy in BoP2.0, a bit too easy. That's why I suggested above the following: