(Topic ID: 72381)

BOP 2.0 Owners Club (Members Only)


By awarner

5 years ago



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Topic index (key posts)

5 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #1756 Product info Posted by rubberducks (2 years ago)

Post #1758 Availability update Posted by Fourbyracer (2 years ago)

Post #1788 Key workaround info Posted by awarner (2 years ago)

Post #1859 How to backup your ssd drive for BOP 2.0 Posted by awarner (2 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#1513 3 years ago

Anyone have a clue how soon a kit might become available?

#1516 3 years ago

If anyone is getting a repro playfield and wants to sell let me know, I'm clearly way too late to the game.

2 months later
#1648 3 years ago
Quoted from wamonkey:

Where can someone get the new cabinet decal art for BOP 2.0 - what I am seeing looks awesome and I am finishing my 2.0 upgrade I would love do do the cabinet at the same time.
I can pay if necessary the art is great and worth contributing to keep supporting the pinball restoration community.

These are all custom decals as far as I've read, so perhaps one of the people who made them can offer you a solution.

1 week later
#1672 2 years ago

I'm curious, has any BoP 2.0 owners modified an original speaker panel (with original artwork) to accommodate the BoP 2.0 screen instead of installing the DP one?

1 month later
#1728 2 years ago

Does the 2.0 kit come with a speaker mounting plate or MDF board that sits between the cabinet and the new speaker? Also, does it reuse the speaker wiring harness or provide a new one?

Is the cabinet speaker a direct swap out for the original?

#1733 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Does the 2.0 kit come with a speaker mounting plate or MDF board that sits between the cabinet and the new speaker? Also, does it reuse the speaker wiring harness or provide a new one?
Is the cabinet speaker a direct swap out for the original?

...and a follow up to this question: What speakers are shipping with the new kits?

#1754 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Does the 2.0 kit come with a speaker mounting plate or MDF board that sits between the cabinet and the new speaker? Also, does it reuse the speaker wiring harness or provide a new one?
Is the cabinet speaker a direct swap out for the original?

Quoted from jsa:

...and a follow up to this question: What speakers are shipping with the new kits?

Hey folks, sorry to be a pest on this. Can someone give me some information on the cabinet speaker situation?

#1757 2 years ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

Speakers in batch 3 (CoinTaker) are those used by VPCabs (not sure of brand or model), on recommendation from them.
CoinTaker claim they're better quality, which is hopefully the case, and I'm sure they're also cheaper.

Thanks for the information. I'm hearing that there is no MDF adapter plate with the kit, which means either I make one or don't care. I'm leaning towards the latter.

1 week later
#1818 2 years ago

Received my kit today. FYI, the kit came with Flipper Fidelity speakers. The cabinet speaker is an 8" Flipper Fidelity bass speaker. How have all of you mounted the 8" speaker? Did you enlarge the hole in the cabinet? If you added a mounting block, how did you fabricate it?

#1823 2 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

Interesting your analysis of the kit cost. Pinball Life did have the complete LCD assemblies until recently. So if we round up the cost to $1000.00 in parts maybe (considering that some of it is custom). That's $1000 for the software and profits.
Will you like the kit? I haven't met anyone who didn't find it to be anything less than awesome. It truly brings new life to an old game. I have a LOT of money in mine but I did it because I wanted to and because I was friends with Python. Only advice: Make sure all of the switches in your game and any other parts are working properly.

I don't think you're paying for the bill of materials cost for 2.0 plus a margin. I think you're paying for a new pinball machine that represents a tremendous amount of creative work, software development, marketing, licensing, support, manufacturing and distribution

As someone who has built companies and products, I know it's easy to discount all of these things you don't see. However, let there be no mistake; To build a product that works is expensive. To build a product that work that people love, that's rare.

#1836 2 years ago

Does anyone know if the cabinet speaker that comes with the kit is a 4 ohm or 8 ohm speaker? Mine doesn't have a product label on it other than "Flipper Fidelity."

#1839 2 years ago

Yeah, I used it and measured...4 ohms. It would be nice if someone could verify this, because my multimeter skills are...not skills.

2 weeks later
#1860 2 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

You asked for it, You got it! Backing up (and restoring) your BOP 2.0 Hard Disk (SSD). Feel free to comment.
» YouTube video

Super impressed, Al. That's a great video. We could of used your patient how-to skills on Revision3 back in the day. Also, just curious, can you think of any way to do this somehow with an external screen or remote screen somehow, without removing it?

#1862 2 years ago
Quoted from travisbmartin:

It would be nice if the computer had a VNC client already installed. Then you could basically use another computer with VNC to log into the computer's IP address. But you'd have to get the network set up on the game's computer, first.

I'm fine jumping through hoops on initial install. I'll probably install VNC on the system beforehand, I'm sure it's not too difficult. The challenge is that with things like backups as awarner describes is that you need access to the BIOS screen on bootup. I've done that with serial consoles, but no way that I know of doing that over a network (without a remote serial console device). This is why I mention the external screen; Sometimes you can get a PC to boot up and light up another screen instead (maybe just unplug the existing one and plug in a USB or other powered one).

1 month later
#1889 2 years ago

[SOLVED, see next post]

Posting a question here as well as on the non-2.0 as I'm having a bit of a riddle.

My head assembly homes to the wrong face. When I received the machine last year, before restoring it, it was having this problem so I knew I'd have to address it once it was finished, which is pretty close to where I am now.

I've checked switch 67, and it's closed appropriately when not on an indentation in the assembly and open when on an indentation (and it properly closes in between indentations). This was wired backwards when I got it (open vs. closed) and I switched this as part of this troubleshooting, unfortunately to no avail.

What adds more confusion to the riddle is that there seems to be a discrepancy between what the manual *says* the face orientation should be on the assembly versus what is actually possible. As you can see from this photo:

head_view (resized).jpg

The orientation of where the depressions are on the back face of the assembly and how they relate to the mounting holes isn't something you can change. You can only mount the mouth face on the side in the photo marked "marking hole," because the screws are on opposite corners from the other faces. However, if you look at the manual here:

Screen Shot 2017-01-04 at 8.52.59 PM (resized).png

It clearly shows the mouth (face assembly 1) on the center depression, which is impossible.

Has anyone had any issues getting the head to home properly to the correct face like this? I feel like I'm missing something obvious.

#1890 2 years ago

I solved this problem. See what I did here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bop-clubnon-20/page/25#post-3525288

Essentially, I had three, separate problems and all needed to be fixed. Switch wiring was incorrect (as the manual is incorrect on the NC/NO orientation), Faces were incorrect (as the manual is incorrect on the orientation of the faces in respect to the depressions on the assembly), and the switch relay had cold solder joints.

3 weeks later
#1907 2 years ago

I went to install the BoP 2.0 kit today. I was making great progress when I realized my kit doesn't have a power supply for the display.

Can someone give me the specifications for the power of the display? I emailed CoinTaker but I'm obviously anxious to try to get this thing working.

#1910 2 years ago

Being the tech hoarder that I am, I found a 12v 1.5amp wall wort and gave it a shot, and it worked. Meanwhile CoinTaker is sending me the appropriate power supply.

Truth be told, the CoinTaker kits now are supposed to include three power supplies; One for the amp, one for the display, and one for the GigaByte brand PC. All three plug into the non-switched powerstrip and outlet in the machine. The display has a built in sleep feature, so in theory, once the PC shuts off it will drop power to the display...and that seems to be how it's working. Unfortunately, the amp has no such feature, so the amp stays on all the time inside the machine.

Now, as an audiophile, you might say that's fine, a power amp can stay on all the time. I get a little nervous leaving anything on indefinitely just because that is how fires get started. I may rig up a more sophisticated 12v and 5v power supply like I did in my ToM. I wired it into the switched side of the power so it turns on when the machine turns on. It could easily handle the amp and the display. The PC should stay on an unswitched outlet because of the power management with the CSSC card.

#1912 2 years ago
Quoted from mavantix:

I wonder if something like this would work, if the PC was plugged into the "Control" outlet?
amazon.com link »

I think it could, but this falls into the diminishing returns category. The goal is to play a fun machine, right?

#1914 2 years ago
Quoted from mavantix:

I wonder if something like this would work, if the PC was plugged into the "Control" outlet?
amazon.com link »

I stand corrected... This is automatic. Hmm, this would be really easy to implement.

#1916 2 years ago

Anything I need to do to get live working on 1.16? I enabled Live mode, made sure the BoP was connected to the Internet...and hit the URL in the paperwork Cointaker told me to check. It still gives me the connect your BoP to the Internet screen.

#1919 2 years ago

She's alive!

IMG_5679 (resized).JPG

#1926 2 years ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

Ok. How do I "click" to repair?

You'll need to plug a USB keyboard (and maybe a mouse, I have a combo device).

For the display, you'll need to do one of two things. Either remove the display screen from the speaker panel, or unplug the display from the PC and plug in an external monitor. This way you'll see the parts of the screen obscured by the speaker panel. Then you can restart the PC (you might be able to do this without restarting, it shouldn't matter).

At that point, you should see the repair options. If repairing isn't possible booting from the drive, your next move would be to create a repair boot drive (like a USB stick with repair software) and then run that.

Some folks here have posted the process of backing up an restoring the SSD. It's somewhat a similar process if you are repairing from a USB stick.

1 week later
#1945 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

How would this compare to the Pinduino out there for BoP? I have been debating on that setup. I like the chase lights up the ramp, but didn't really like the full multicolor (your idea of blue and purple was what I was thinking). I also can't tell from the video when/why the chase lights went up the ramp. Were they at times when you are supposed to shoot the ramp? That would make sense, but I think they do that at non-related times. I'd be very interested in your ideas on game related lights, and a shaker is always cool.

I have it right now, and the setup/code is configurable if you want to change these things. I haven't had time to customize it. It lights when something goes up the ramp, but it also lights at other times (attract, other modes, etc.). Basically, the same as Pinduino works with any setup, you just have to decide what triggers you care about.

1 week later
#1981 2 years ago
Quoted from mavantix:

I don't think it really effects BoP 2.0 much even if DP dissolves, I would love to see the code finalized (1.17 bugs fixed really), but I'm happy with 1.16 if that's all we ever get.

Let me be blunt: I had an event recently where easily we had 40-50 people try BoP 2.0 on 1.16. The game was so well received I've been getting inquiries about it daily. I don't think there is any danger if 1.16 was the last revision, though I doubt it. I have every reason to believe that DP is making smart, calculated decisions to ensure they are in this for the long haul.

Businesses that have limited market size can't get capital from lenders or venture investment, even if they show great profit potential. Therefore, the pre-order model emerged, but with it requires a short attention span audience with limited patience. Not a great mix, but at least passionate community members will wait.

#1983 2 years ago
Quoted from Quarterwaster:

DP stated in private communication that BoP was essentially done. This was prior to Chicago expo last fall. It was in response to being asked if there would be any revisions before expo that world make bringing one worth it.

As I said, I'd be fine with the software as-is. Since now we all know about the changes in 1.17, of course we'd like to see those finalized through QA and released. I'm in no rush, though, as I don't think it makes the game so much better that I can't live without it.

#1993 2 years ago
Quoted from BobT:

BOP 2.0 is number 5 on the TOP 100. I know you purists don't give a shinola, but I think it's cool.

I tend to be a purist about things like this, however...After a full restore and dialing in of 1.0, my family and friends played it a ton for about a month or so, every day. It's a classic, but somewhat limited machine. Let me emphasize, as far as 1.0 goes, you couldn't play a better example of it, yet particularly in it's "like new" state, it's super unforgiving. The bumpers at the ramp entrances make for very fast game play (particularly on a new playfield), so if you're a beginner or intermediate player, you get a lot of SDTM shots and it requires fast reaction time. It also has no ball saves, so again, if you're not particularly good, it leaves you disappointed. This was my friends and family's reaction to the game... They loved the theme and look, but felt it was way too difficult and returned to my other machine.

I then installed the 2.0 kit, figuring I could always return to 1.0 (not the emulation, just install the original MPU and speaker panel). Interesting, despite having the exact same playfield, you couldn't have a more opposite reaction. The ball saves help mitigate the fast lower playfield play and the video/sound effects engaged my friends way more than 1.0. Now, they go back to 2.0 all the time. The only complaint about it really isn't something 2.0-specific; The three ball multiball is very difficult for beginners on such a short lower half of a playfield. I love it, but I tend to park balls and typically let a ball drain.

2 weeks later
#2025 2 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

Hah. So it's not the board I first mentioned. Then what does the board on the left end of the playfield do?
I will be sure to check the small board with the relay on it!

There are three boards related to the head assembly. One is the motor control, one is the switch relay, and one is the helmet chase lights.

The relay is pictured in the above link. I had erratic behavior until I re-flowed the old solder joints on that board as indicated.
The motor control is on the end of the playfield behind the head in the corner.

There is also a fuse involved in this, so make sure you haven't blown any.

One thing I did was first try touching a 9v battery to the motor leads to make sure the motor worked and everything turned as it should. This isolated the motor and assembly itself from being a cause of problems. Since the head isn't turning at all, the next step would be looking at fuses, that motor control board, all the connections are correct, etc. At one point, I had those connections wrong or backward, that would cause an issue.

Finally there is the relay bit. It could be related, though this is going beyond my knowledge at this point.

2 weeks later
#2045 2 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

So I have my kit installed two weeks ago, and I notice the power supply for the amp gets quite hot, also when not used.
According to the (EU) manual, it should be connected to an unswitched outlet, but I am afraid to leave it on 24/7 because of this. I see two options:
(1) creating a second power *switched* outlet, and connect the power supply to that one (can also be useful if I want to connect an extra string of LEDs later)
(2) ditching the extra power supply, and connecting the amp to the 12v from the transformer.
Btw, the amp seems a little under powered to me, if it is capable of running from a (1A?) 12V power supply, can it ever in all seriousness produce enough power to drive 100 watt+ speakers? I mean, serious car amps all need super extra thick wires or even second batteries.

I used a third option; A power-sensing power strip connected to an unswitched outlet. I have the PC plugged into the sensor outlet, so when the PC fully shuts down, power drops to the amp and the display.

As for the amp, so far I haven't had any distortion on the mids/fronts and I'm pretty sensitive to that sort of thing. I do find the amp a bit lacking in precision on the adjustment pots but (along with rattle tape) patience and small tuning gets you there.

#2047 2 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

Thanks for your answer, will look into the switching power supply, it's a great idea! (Edit: just ordered one!)
The sound from the amp isn't all that bad, the biggest problem comes from the fact that the amount of bass it generates, everything in the machine is resonating, mostly the speaker panel.

I had that problem as well. I found that two things helped. First, I dropped the bass speaker volume somewhat, though I like it high so not too much. Second, I installed rattle tape on the glass which was resonating the most. That seemed to do the trick.

#2051 2 years ago

I tried electrical tape, packaging tape, felt, nothing worked very well and often these tapes would cause too much friction inserting the glass.

However, when I tried Pinball Pro's tape, it was thin enough to allows the glass to move yet the surface of the tape created a better contact to reduce rattle.

https://pinballpro.net/shop/anti-rattle-tape-ar-1/

#2063 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Samples aren't an issue - but there's a sound delay. Instead of the sound playing right when a switch is hit, there's about a second delay.

I did notice that the sample playback improved from 1.16 to 1.18, though that might be a coincidence of timing on the pinmame side of the equation. Now there are really only two problems, the delay and some over-modulating with the samples. It crossed a threshold for me which I consider playable... So it's really not a huge problem.

#2099 2 years ago

For what it's worth, I posted the STL files for the leg bracket adapters and BoP face plate brackets on my github repo.

Just a refresher, we created the leg adapter plates to fill the gap between the "new style" Williams leg brackets and the corner gussets. When you remove the smaller plate and add the new style, the adapter sits between the gusset and the new bracket.

The face plate brackets are designed to be used with the new, CPR replacement face plates for the Bride's head. The old face plates had metal brackets screwed to the back to keep the pinballs from falling through the holes. The new face plates not only do not have mounting screw holes for the metal brackets, but also the holes are bigger and not beveled. This leads to balls falling right through, and if you try to use the old metal plates, the balls wobble or roll to the center. The new plates are meant to be two-sided taped or glued to the back of the new plates, and they hold the balls perfectly.

https://github.com/jayadelson/pinball

#2103 2 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

The factory plates work perfectly fine on the CPR faces when double sided taped to them. There is no need to screw them into the CPR plates.

It's not broken to use them, but the pinballs definitely look crosseyed to me, but I'm a perfectionist. Also, you can print these on transparent materials to let light through if you don't like the shadow outline.

Anyway, just sharing if anyone wants them. Leg bracket adapters may be more useful to you.

4 months later
#2238 2 years ago

2.0 was the last modification of a soups-to-nuts restoration of my BoP over last year. The game is perfect, and since I've installed 2.0, I've seen no issues with the 2.0 components. The game works like we would expect.

#2247 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

The existing drive is almost full @ 30GB. If you ever have any driver or other software issues and have to update you will run out space very quickly. Also as awarner said, 30GB is hard to find.
I like to give windows plenty of room to be it's bloated old self.

There are definitely programs out there to resize partitions without formatting. If you're restoring to the new drive, with a partition the same size as your backup, there will be an unused section of your hard drive. At this point, you could expand the smaller partition into the additional space. Kind of a pain, takes forever, but it should work.

3 weeks later
#2267 1 year ago
Quoted from Ditch_Digger:

The power strip my BoP 2.0 was plugged into was turned off while the game was on, now the code is messed up. It has version 1.19 and says PINMAME ROM : BOP_L6.
Can anyone walk this computer illiterate through the seemingly impossible task of fixing it?
Thanks in advance.

Well, that should be fine. 1.19 is the latest version, and Pinmame ROM is the version of the ROM used in emulation mode when it boots up under BoP 1.0. Make sense?

#2269 1 year ago
Quoted from Ditch_Digger:

When I bought the 2.0, there was a note that instructed not to unplug the machine for 10 minutes after turning the machine off. I guess this allows the computer to power down properly?
I accidentally turned the power strip off while the machine was on, now the code is messed up. The head call outs are off and it scores improperly on the regular version. The head doesn't register on the 2.0 version. High scores are not saved.
I think the code got messed up? I have no idea where to start.
Threw in the version info, as that's about all I know, lol.

It could be that something is corrupted in your image. It's not the kind of thing that happens when you shut off too quickly... Just like PCs usually recover on a power fail.

When you say the head call outs are off, what do you mean exactly? Also...high scores not being saved, that's just plain odd.

My recommendation is you reach out to DP on this one. If you do end up having to restore from a backup image, I'm sure that can be arranged. (Good reason to keep your own backup, fwiw.)

#2272 1 year ago
Quoted from Ditch_Digger:

Now the old version starts with the face in plain robot head position, which I'm pretty sure is correct. When I shoot the shuttle ramp, the game calls out "engage vocal...", but the head does not move to mouth hole position. Shoot shuttle ramp again, ball rolls over plain robot face into lock and says "I can speak", then face moves to mouth hole position.
...."engage optical" when ball goes into mouth hole.
Anyone know of a simple reboot?

You should go into the menu functions while in BoP 1.0 and calibrate head. It should start on the open mouth face. Since you didn't disconnect the head, and conceivably it was working before the power failure, it could just be set to the wrong face.

Usually, when you switch back and forth between DP and Williams emulation, it asks you to adjust the head to a specific location. Can you verify that?

1 month later
#2317 1 year ago

This is pretty cool. Do your rules care if it's 1.0 or 2.0? I suppose it shouldn't, as it's monitoring the same switches, right? What gets added (besides LEDs) if you're already running your existing pinduino setup?

1 week later
#2329 1 year ago

I’ll never sell mine. My son and I spent eight months together on it. It’s a work of art and love.

4 months later
#2389 1 year ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

Interesting. I've had it happen a few times, I didn't think about going back a version.

This is weird, I play the game daily and it's never happened to me on 1.19. Then again, I do suck at pinball, so is it possible the bug happens at higher scores?

4 months later
#2425 1 year ago

I love our kit, we play it often. The challenge is that we restored 1.0 perfectly, so at some point, I'll revert it for a while just to experience our work...but frankly, we play it in both modes often, so we're in no rush.

I heard a rumor there are sound improvements coming, so we'll hang in there.

#2427 1 year ago
Quoted from MightyGrave:

I hope someone can improve and bug fix the code on the BOP 2.0. it need some improvements. And i think DP won't do it

I hate speculating in general about time, but we have zero idea. However, regardless of DP's situation, I feel confident we'll get code updates in the future, as all the coders involved are personally committed (and have said so much over the years). If anything, until everyone knows the financial situation is settled one way or the other, it's uncomfortable to keep working on it presently (payment issues, etc). Once that all passes, I bet we get new code.

2 months later
#2449 10 months ago

FYI, installed drop-in replacement for the helmet control board to support LEDs and introduce proper fade. More info here in the 1.0 thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bop-clubnon-20/page/33#post-4679092

Here's a video:

3 weeks later
#2469 9 months ago
Quoted from Jesder:

I have a bad feeling you might have to rely on someone who purchased the upgrade, but never got around to installing it It's a shame as it's a nice little upgrade to the game and worth having. There are others who are chasing one also - I wonder if Scott would be willing to do another batch if enough people put their hand up for one?

Either that, or perhaps Scott could share the manufacturing files with someone in the know who could produce it themselves. It's a nice to have for video mode.

5 months later
#2509 4 months ago
Quoted from dethfactor:

Just got my BoP 2.0 kit installed and I've been reading up on the issues. Does anyone know if Scott is going to do a re-run of the aux flipper boards or if he'd give out the designs to have something made? Lastly, I had LEDs in my game, not sure what kind but the lighting worked great on the standard boards but now they're very ghosty since installing the upgrade. What LEDs do you guys have in your games? or is there a setting or something I'm missing for LEDs.
Thanks for your time,
-Mike

I spent a bunch of time on this. A couple things to consider.

I had the LED/GI OCD boards but I had to bypass them for 2.0 ultimately because after a ton of work, herg and I couldn't get the pwm to work properly with the way the lighting was implemented in the code. I may come back to this at some point but it probably would require some discussion with developers at DP or Multimorphic and probably wasn't worth the effort.

Next, for whatever reason, with no pwm, the ghosting was very strong when the game first turns on (at least with the original P-ROC and game code I was using). There was no question about this. Five minutes of warm up, the ghosting seemed to dissipate and eventually go away entirely. There was no fading but it was clean. These were with either regular or non-ghosting LEDs, it made zero difference.

I think the ghosting you're seeing isn't caused by the typical factors since it goes away when it warms up. I've seen this also on 2.0 setups in the field. Curious what other people have seen.

1 month later
#2512 73 days ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

The one thing you should note is it takes around a full 2 min plus to turn on the proc system

To be fair, that's because BoP 2.0 boots off of Windows 10. Modern games using P-ROCs don't all do that, and can boot pretty fast from a cold start.

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