(Topic ID: 72381)

BOP 2.0 Owners Club (Members Only)

By awarner

7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 12 days ago by Snux
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Topic index (key posts)

5 key posts have been marked in this topic

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #1756 Product info Posted by rubberducks (5 years ago)

Post #1758 Availability update Posted by Fourbyracer (4 years ago)

Post #1788 Key workaround info Posted by awarner (4 years ago)

Post #1859 How to backup your ssd drive for BOP 2.0 Posted by awarner (4 years ago)


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#2323 3 years ago

Hi Guys,

I picked up a BoP 2.0 a week ago and noticed a couple of switch issues on arrival. They didn't bother me enough to start with, but decided to set some time aside tonight to investigate.

I've discovered there appears to be an issue with all switches on row #5.

This row contains Left Outlane (15), Right Trough (25), Skill Shot 25K (35), Right Loop Bottom (45), Lower Jet Bumper (55), Head Mouth (65), Mini Exit Right (75).

The behaviour I see is activating these switches will register the switch directly above it in row 4. The most noticable one for me was Left Outlane (15) appears as Tilt (14). This is seen all the way along the row (15 activates 14, 25 activates 24, 35 activates 34 and so on). All switches on row 4 register correctly in test mode when activated and do not seem to be affected by the issue. Switches in other rows also activate correctly and do not appear to be an issue. The issue looks to be isolated to row 5.

I inspected the switches on row 5 and think the issue resides with the switch for Right Trough (25). If I remove all balls from the trough and then try to activate any of the other switches on row 5, none of them register in switch test mode.

If I activcate Right Trough (25) with a ball or manually with my finger and then activate one of the other switches on row 5, I get the strange behaviour e.g. Left Out Lane (15) appears as Tilt (14) and Lower Jet (55) appears as Upper Jet (54).

Looking at the right trough switch, I noticed that some soldering had been done to it at some point in recent weeks/months/years (not sure how recent) - and the switch wire (white+green) is connected to the banded side of the diode. I believe this should be connected to the non banded side as per the other switches across the machine.

IMG_0859 (resized).JPG

Thinking that this switch was causing some sort of short, I disconnected the wire from the trough switch and then tried the other switches on row 5, but none of them register. They only register (all be it incorrectly) when the trough switch is engaged (as a side note, the trough switch (25) would be activating switch 24 - which is marked in the manual as "Always closed" which would explain why there is no 'missing ball' error).

I'm wondering if having the wire connected up to the wrong side of the diode has done some damage to the P-ROC board or one of its chips? Is this possible? Am I missing something simple? Any thoughts or suggestions on things I can try to diagnose it further?

#2325 3 years ago
Quoted from tfduda:

Yes, my switch appears to be connected the other way around with the white with green wire attached to the non banded side of the diode. Hope it didn’t cause damage...

Thanks for taking the time to photo and confirm the wiring.

It looks to me that the trough switch (on my machine) has been replaced as some point, which would help explain why the wire has been resoldered here. The switch blade on yours is what I'd expect to see, while mine is much longer than required.

It's interesting that when I move the wire to the correct switch lug, none of the switches on row 5 work. This changes the behavior from activating an incorrect switch in the row above (on the switch matrix), to no response at all.

Probably the next step is for me to remove the connectors from the P-ROC board and test the switch matrix one pin at a time to try and see if the issue is on the board or on the playfield.

I have seen a member on the BoP 2.0 forums talk about an issue with their ULN2803A chip - although they were having a column issue, where as mine is a row. I think the LM339 chips are in charge or the switch matrix rows, so it's possible one of those is faulty. I can replace this easily and cheaply enough - but would be good to have the issue source determined rather than take a shot gun approach.

I'll investigate more tonight.

#2327 3 years ago

My switch row issue from above looks to be solved now.

I moved the wire to the correct switch lug on the right trough switch. This resulted in no switches on row 5 working. I ran through all switches on the machine again and marked them off on a print out of the switch matrix. This allowed me to confirm that only the row 5 switches were failing and there were no cases where multiple switches were being reported.

On the P-ROC board, there are a series of LM339 chips which are in charge of the direct and matrix switches on the game. Looking at the P-ROC schematics I found which chip was responsible for row 5. I replaced this chip and booted the game back up.

At this point, the switches in row 5 started to register correctly. That is, until I activated the right trough switch again. Watching the display when I tested it, the switch name came up for a moment and then disappeared. Trying again, the name would flicker on and off and then remain off. At this point, all the switches on row 5 became intermittent until they stopped registering entirely and was again left with row 5 not working (but all other switches fine).

I replaced the LM339 chip again and this time also replaced the right trough switch. Booting the game back up and testing the switches again, row 5 now registered correctly and the right trough switch worked correctly. I tested the switches on row 5 on repeat for a few minutes, with a heavy focus on the right trough switch and no more failures or intermittent behaviour was seen.

So from what I can tell, the right trough switch was the cause - not just the incorrectly wired lug, but the switch itself.

Since fixing, I've played a number of games on both BoP and Bop 2.0 modes and both have run flawlessly without any switch issues, so I'm considering it fixed

#2331 3 years ago
Quoted from tfduda:

Thanks for the info on the fix and glad to hear of your success! Do you have an idea about how the switch was messing up the chip?

Sadly no. I had thought maybe the diode was shorted or open, but it tested fine when removed from the switch. I could try digging more, but with the game working fine now, I'm happy to leave it.

Quoted from Jarkko:

I turned on my BoP 2.0 (first batch) last night and the game won't start. Instead, it boots to this message:

Not sure if you saw, but Koen replied to your thread on the Dutch Pinball forums with some suggestions.

1 month later
#2345 3 years ago
Quoted from wierdeer:

Bought new computer after I fried old computer...switched ssd then installed now I got bootlooping on start up.. I read that someone else had same problem,anyone know the fix? Says gygabyte then starting bride of pinbot 2.0 then reboots

There is a post on the DP BoP forums about start up issues. In the linked post, issue #2 talks about not being able to start up - so may be worth investigating.

http://www.dutchpinball.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=105

#2352 3 years ago
Quoted from wierdeer:

She’s alive!!!!

What was the solution? BIOS settings?

#2356 3 years ago
Quoted from wierdeer:

Anybody know how I get on WiFi and update?... I read you need an email and since I’m not the original purchaser of kit I didn’t receive email

As Koen said above ^

I purchase my machine off someone in November last year and the account details I was given didn't work. I contact the DP guys via the support email and they sent me an email with the account details to get me up and running with their Live page.

1 month later
#2373 3 years ago

I play both original and 2.0 with a pretty even split. I love both rule sets.

4 weeks later
#2391 3 years ago

The only time I've noticed music cut out is at game over during the match sequence. It doesn't happen all the time and I've not attempted to try and replicate it on a consistent basis. From what I observe though: the game ends, the music for the match sequence begins to play, head begins to rotates back to default position and then the normal match music cuts out until the sequence is complete. Sometimes the match music stays on without issue. I've never had the music cut out mid game though.

I have observed the "delay" in some gameplay switches triggering and then being registered by the game. My hope is the update will resolve these with all the improvements in the pinmame build.

Thanks for the updates though mate - appreciate the effort

3 months later
#2413 3 years ago

I did a small write up on the installation of my aux flipper board recently - http://www.enteryourinitials.com/2018/06/16/bride-of-pinbot-2-0-repair-service-log-5/

I hope Scott does make a new batch as they're an excellent addition to a BoP 2.0 machine

Agreed! His support here and on the DP BoP 2.0 forums is very much appreciated!

4 months later
#2451 2 years ago

I recently went through the process of cloning the SSD inside my BoP 2.0 machine, so I have a complete plug & play backup should Windows or the drive die.

For anyone that's interested, I've put together an article on my site covering the process with lots of screen shots along the way to help explain it all - http://www.enteryourinitials.com/2018/11/08/bride-of-pinbot-2-0-repair-service-log-6/

There are a few different methods you can use do it - this is just one of them. I think it's something that is well worth doing, since there is no simple recovery install to get the drive up and running again if something bad does happen.

1 week later
#2461 2 years ago
Quoted from floyd1977:

Thanks for doing this. Will this work?
amazon.com link »
Also, is the software you used freeware?
I copied the image of the drive a while back, but I would really like to do what you did and ensure I have a working backup drive.

I've not used that particular dock, but it looks basically the same as the one I did use. As mentioned by Chosen_S above, you want to be careful to correctly eject the drive in Windows before removing it from the dock. I have seen drives stuffed from removing them from docking devices without properly ejecting from Windows first - so it pays to be cautious.

The strict steps I followed were:

1) Dock device switched off
2) Connect dock to PC via USB
3) Insert SSD in to dock
4) Switch dock power on and allow windows to map

Do you're backup / restore. Then once complete..

5) Right click drive in Windows explorer and choose Eject
6) Wait for Windows to acknowledge drive has been safely ejected
7) Switch dock power off
8) Remove drive from dock.

Acrois isn't freeware, but it does have a 30 trial period. Some features are disabled in the trial, but pretty sure the drive backup and recovery are enabled in the trial version. The full version is currently on sale for half price at $35AU (roughly $25US) and well worth paying for if you have to in order to get a plug & play backup working. Pretty cheap for the software and spare SSD to ensure you're protected (that's my view anyway )

There are other backup / recovery software packages out there, some of which are free. I've not used them though, so can't comment on them. I use Acronis at work and it does its job well. It worked for my BoP 2.0 back up - so can recommend that

There's a good video on YouTube showing a different method for backing up too - so be sure to check that out. What ever method you go with - be cautious & take you're time

1 week later
#2468 2 years ago
Quoted from MightyGrave:

Does somebody know where I can get a Aux Flipper Switch Hookup Board for the BOP 2.0 ? Seems Scott doesn't do any new boards

I have a bad feeling you might have to rely on someone who purchased the upgrade, but never got around to installing it It's a shame as it's a nice little upgrade to the game and worth having. There are others who are chasing one also - I wonder if Scott would be willing to do another batch if enough people put their hand up for one?

2 months later
#2478 2 years ago
Quoted from floyd1977:

Yep, that was it! I am now running off of my cloned drive. Thanks for the excellent guide, jesder !

Awesome mate! Yeah the MBR thing is what caused me a few issues at first too. Originally I was using an earlier version of Acronis which was forcing the drive to be EFI, even though I had formatted it as MBR. Glad you got worked out and now have a back up Make sure you keep the image file backed up somewhere too so you can easily restore to another drive again if needed.

1 week later
#2480 2 years ago

I finally finished off my BoP 2.0 transformation over the weekend and wanted to share the results. It's been done in stages over the last 12 - 14 months. First was a rebuild of all playfield assemblies, new parts, new plastics, new ramps, etc. Following that was a full playfield swap and finally cabinet repair and new decals. For anyone that's interested, I do detailed progress write ups on my site which have a lot of photos along the way.

The full write up for the cabinet repair and new decals can be found here:
http://www.enteryourinitials.com/2019/02/16/bride-of-pinbot-2-0-repair-service-log-9/

The write up on the playfield swap can be found here:
http://www.enteryourinitials.com/2019/01/06/bride-of-pinbot-2-0-repair-service-log-8/

The rest of the work is in a series of blog entries:
http://www.enteryourinitials.com/category/pinball/bride-of-pinbot-williams-1991/

I'm really happy with how the machine has turned out. The mirror blades were a last minute addition that weren't planned - but they compliment the game nicely. I also have the helmet LED driver board from pellew installed, along with the AUX flipper board from Scott Danesi. One last thing I did that's not covered in the write up is adding some white and purple LED strips to the topper to light it up.

bop_cabinet_complete_1 (resized).jpg

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11 months later
#2572 1 year ago
Quoted from adamross:

My game has become super glitchy and behaving as if it's possessed once again. Additional balls randomly ejecting during gameplay, balls not ejecting from the small wheel VUK, helmet not recognizing when balls are in the lock, hearing "shoot heartbeat ramp to light shuttle ramp" anytime a switch is triggered etc. I suspect the problem might be due to some kind of issue with my cpu. Have any other owners experienced something like this?

I've had the issue where the ball wouldn't kick out on the wheel mode and that was as simple as one of the coil wires breaking away. The switch carziness you're seeing sounds like possibly a shorted switch matrix. Once the game boots into 2.0, turn the game over to the original Bride ruleset (Williams) and enter the switch test. Activate switches one at a time and ensure only the activated switch registers. It may also be worth visually inspecting all switches under the playfield for any shorts. Also reseat the switch connectors on the P-ROC board in case they have loosened a bit.

3 weeks later
#2577 1 year ago

Do you see switch issues in both 2.0 and original modes?

3 months later
#2634 1 year ago
Quoted from Happy81724:

Yeah, I have to go and switch version to 1.16 if on 1.19. Then I get the option to select which game with my flipper. After i play original I shut it off And it goes back to 2.0 next time I turn it on. I switch versions back to 1.19 and it gives me the option again to choose original or 2.0. It’s the only way I know how to do it and the previous owner

To get to the game select screen, you hold the start button in for a few seconds. You will see a loading (confirmation) bar appear and once complete, the game select screen will appear. You do the same to go from 1.0 back to 2.0, which will let you switch between both games without having to reset. The only difference is a ball will be put into the shooter lane before the game select screen appears when going from 1.0 to the loading screen.

If you want your 1.0 scores and audits to be retained, I found you will need to switch back to 2.0 before shutting the machine down.

From memory, if you shut your machine down while running 1.0, you will be asked at start up which game mode you want. If you shut down while running 2.0, it will boot in to that automatically next time.

Also, with regards to cabinet protectors. mollyspub is 100% correct with the damage they do to new decals. Back when I did my 2.0 I used the felt kind, thinking they would be softer on the decals. But after a couple of days, wrinkles were creeping in under them. I was able to flatten them out and get the metal brackets installed. I think they are fine on older machines and certainly work well covering up damage on non restored cabs. But i'll never use them again on any machines I restore.

9 months later
#2676 7 months ago
Quoted from Snux:

I'm likely to sell my BOP at some point soon as it's not being played, but there is one more person with a copy of the update; he did a lot of beta testing and lots of tweaks to the sound files. He's willing to host the update on his website along with the install instructions (it's not automated, you need to hook a keyboard and mouse up to the PC in the machine) but only once DP / Pinsound are happy. He has posted in this thread before but I'll let him decide if he wants to make himself known or not.

I may as well out myself. I really hope we get to see this update roll out at some point to all 2.0 owners. I don't plan to sell my 2.0 anytime soon, so if snux does move on, I'm still keen to see it through.

3 weeks later
#2688 6 months ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

My Bride 2.0 has worked reliably for like 7 years, but today my batch 2 kit (Gigabyte PC) isn't showing new play on the live score tracker page. I'm not finding the WiFi settings at all in the set up menu and barely remember how the settings work. Can anyone school me how to get it back on Wifi? I seem to remember needing to plug in a keyboard and do it in Windows on the PC, but there are no free USB ports (is there something I can unplug?) and I don't know how to boot it to Windows. Thanks!

I have the Gigabyte PC also. There should be 1 free USB port on the front.

You will need a small USB hub that you can connect your mouse and keyboard to. The hub can then be connected to the free port on the front.

The machine always boots into Windows, so you won't need to do anything special on start up. Once the game is in attract mode, you can use the mouse and keyboard to navigate windows. If you move the mouse around, you should see it appear over the BoP 2.0 score display. If you move the mouse cursor to the bottom of the display, you should get the windows task bar appear.

I'm pretty sure the wifi settings are in windows, not BoP 2.0. So there should be a network/wifi icon in the system tray (right side of the windows task bar). In there you should be able to configure your wifi settings for your network.

3 months later
#2699 3 months ago
Quoted from mollyspub:

So is it safe to say this will be a simple software update?

Correct. The update is done via USB and the update feature in the service menu.

Koen has done a great job automating the manual steps Snux and I had put together.

You will only need a keyboard and mouse if you need to revert to back to 1.19.

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