BOP 2.0 Owners Club (Members Only)

(Topic ID: 72381)

BOP 2.0 Owners Club (Members Only)


By awarner

5 years ago



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  • 159 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 32 days ago by mollyspub
  • Topic is favorited by 62 Pinsiders

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There are 2482 posts in this topic. You are on page 37 of 50.
#1801 2 years ago
Quoted from Flake:

253 days, one rebuilt cabinet, too much money on powdercoating, and a new playfield later....

And "Trust Me" - She'll have another picture of this machine this weekend to put up...

#1802 2 years ago
Quoted from Flake:

253 days, one rebuilt cabinet, too much money on powdercoating, and a new playfield later....

Looks awesome. Now attack that coin door and refurbish it.

#1803 2 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

Looks awesome. Now attack that coin door and refurbish it.

Yeah. There's still one or two things I have to finish but haven't fully decided the route I want to go yet. That's one of them.

#1804 2 years ago
Quoted from Flake:

Yeah. There's still one or two things I have to finish but haven't fully decided the route I want to go yet. That's one of them.

Doing the coin door will take about a day to do. Strip apart, clean/scrub everything, goo gone to the old sticker, repaint. Here are the notes I took when I did mine on my BoP:

coin-door:


* main: semi-flat black (krylon)
* speckles: gloss black (rustolem painters touch)
* bleach-white and brushes for cleaning
* scuff with red scotch bright pad
* wipe with tack cloth before painting

#1805 2 years ago

Some photos of mine (it looked worse than what I can see of yours). Only thing I messed up was putting the service sticker on backwards.

image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg

#1806 2 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

Doing the coin door will take about a day to do. Strip apart, clean/scrub everything, goo gone to the old sticker, repaint. Here are the notes I took when I did mine on my BoP:
coin-door: » YouTube video
* main: semi-flat black (krylon)
* speckles: gloss black (rustolem painters touch)
* bleach-white and brushes for cleaning
* scuff with red scotch bright pad
* wipe with tack cloth before painting

It's not hard. I just haven't decided if I wanted to powder coat it to match yet. I haven't wanted to put in the effort until I was sure

#1807 2 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

And "Trust Me" - She'll have another picture of this machine this weekend to put up...

He's right! She got a face lift in the night! 14783479687651703792633 (resized).jpg

#1808 2 years ago
Quoted from Flake:

He's right! She got a face lift in the night!

Nice! Here's mine.

image (resized).jpeg

#1809 2 years ago

Guys, has anyone got a spare head metal cage? The one that is under the playfield that should catch the ball and transport it to the scoop, in case the head turns unexpectedly...

Mine is missing from the day I got it and I can't find a new one.

Thanks!

#1810 2 years ago

Someone was gonna make that but I can't remember who.

#1811 2 years ago

I've been working with cliff to make a repro. I'll check with him for an update

#1812 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

I've been working with cliff to make a repro. I'll check with him for an update

That's right, thanks for chiming in Cheddar.

#1813 2 years ago

I also wanted to do one by myself, but my source for laser cutting has dried out...

#1815 2 years ago

drink up - shoot in - let the beatings begin - 'tallica - I should have known better!

#1816 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

I've been working with cliff to make a repro. I'll check with him for an update

It would be a good idea for anyone who makes this to come up with an alternate mounting plan like tabs at the bottom for it to sit in. Removing the tray is VERY Difficult and when you put it back, almost impossible to put the screws back into. At least when it's in the game.

If someone redid it that way, I'd be talked into replacing my original.

#1817 2 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

It would be a good idea for anyone who makes this to come up with an alternate mounting plan like tabs at the bottom for it to sit in. Removing the tray is VERY Difficult and when you put it back, almost impossible to put the screws back into. At least when it's in the game.
If someone redid it that way, I'd be talked into replacing my original.

super easy with a 1/4" magnetic nut driver

#1818 2 years ago

Received my kit today. FYI, the kit came with Flipper Fidelity speakers. The cabinet speaker is an 8" Flipper Fidelity bass speaker. How have all of you mounted the 8" speaker? Did you enlarge the hole in the cabinet? If you added a mounting block, how did you fabricate it?

#1819 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Received my kit today. FYI, the kit came with Flipper Fidelity speakers. The cabinet speaker is an 8" Flipper Fidelity bass speaker. How have all of you mounted the 8" speaker? Did you enlarge the hole in the cabinet? If you added a mounting block, how did you fabricate it?

I didn't enlarge the hole....just mounted it using the same hole

#1820 2 years ago
Quoted from volcanodiver:

super easy with a 1/4" magnetic nut driver

It bounces around and aligning holes you can't see makes it very difficult despite the nut driver.

#1821 2 years ago

I FINALLY received my kit. However, I am a bit pissed about the whole ordeal.

<RANT>
What a ridiculous wait and incredibly poor communication from CoinTaker. I placed the order in early May told they would ship in two weeks. I told them that i understand that such things can have delays and I'd be happy if I could get it sometime in summer (I was thinking July). They laughed and said no problem, and I gave my cc number for a deposit. A month goes by, no communication, so I send an email to see how things are looking

--No response.--

I wait couple of weeks, call and leave a message. After a couple of days they call back and leave a message that they are two weeks out from shipping. Cool, I think. I can wait. So I wait another month, hear nothing, and send another email.

--No response.--

I wait a week, send another email, and get a response that it is two weeks. Wait another two months hearing nothing. So I send another email.

--No response.--

After another month, I see here that they are shipping and send an email that I heard on pinside that they are shipping. I get a response back a day later and that to please pay them the remainder that is due. I ask for an invoice through PayPal and receive it a day later. I pay and am told it will ship that week. The next week I get an email saying that it shipped. I asked for a tracking number and...

--No response.--

A week goes by and they send me an email with a wifi passcode. I email thanks and again ask for a tracking number, which I get later that day.

A few more days go by and the packages arrive.

I have heard from many people here how absolutely awesome CoinTaker is, but chatting with some folks privately, CoinTaker's lack of organization and communication is something that other people have experienced. While I understand that it is a mom and pop shop, completely ignoring your customers repeatedly on a purchase of a couple of thousand dollars seems like a pretty poor way to run your business. And I am not overly impatient about such things. I mean, I waited several weeks to months between contacting them and every email I sent was short and polite.

</RANT>

Now, I am really hoping that this kit holds up to some of the hype. However, I did purchase it without having played a BoP 2.0 so if I am disappointed, I have no one to blame but myself. Also, I've been really interested in getting a P-ROC system to see how they work and are configured, so at least, it is a good learning experience. For anyone curious, I have done a teardown of the kit: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hGI5yhQ8mP3CvvZBRU9gfJ2Lu_7IBL2iDl-Ul_2es4g/edit?usp=sharing. It is still a work in progress.

#1822 2 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

Now, I am really hoping that this kit holds up to some of the hype. However, I did purchase it without having played a BoP 2.0 so if I am disappointed, I have no one to blame but myself. Also, I've been really interested in getting a P-ROC system to see how they work and are configured, so at least, it is a good learning experience. For anyone curious, I have done a teardown of the kit: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hGI5yhQ8mP3CvvZBRU9gfJ2Lu_7IBL2iDl-Ul_2es4g/edit?usp=sharing. It is still a work in progress.

Interesting your analysis of the kit cost. Pinball Life did have the complete LCD assemblies until recently. So if we round up the cost to $1000.00 in parts maybe (considering that some of it is custom). That's $1000 for the software and profits.

Will you like the kit? I haven't met anyone who didn't find it to be anything less than awesome. It truly brings new life to an old game. I have a LOT of money in mine but I did it because I wanted to and because I was friends with Python. Only advice: Make sure all of the switches in your game and any other parts are working properly.

#1823 2 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

Interesting your analysis of the kit cost. Pinball Life did have the complete LCD assemblies until recently. So if we round up the cost to $1000.00 in parts maybe (considering that some of it is custom). That's $1000 for the software and profits.
Will you like the kit? I haven't met anyone who didn't find it to be anything less than awesome. It truly brings new life to an old game. I have a LOT of money in mine but I did it because I wanted to and because I was friends with Python. Only advice: Make sure all of the switches in your game and any other parts are working properly.

I don't think you're paying for the bill of materials cost for 2.0 plus a margin. I think you're paying for a new pinball machine that represents a tremendous amount of creative work, software development, marketing, licensing, support, manufacturing and distribution

As someone who has built companies and products, I know it's easy to discount all of these things you don't see. However, let there be no mistake; To build a product that works is expensive. To build a product that work that people love, that's rare.

#1824 2 years ago
Quoted from awarner:

It bounces around and aligning holes you can't see makes it very difficult despite the nut driver.

Clip some of the zip ties on the harness and do some minor re-routing and that space opens up quite nicely. Probably not worth the effort unless you are OCD like me. I re routed a lot of wires when I did my restore to try and clean things up under the hood.

d27b7740cc73d01878bd41abedeaa4f7e3193301 (resized).jpg

#1825 2 years ago

No question that there was a lot of R&D that went into BoP2.0 and that $1000 of parts does not make it what it is. It is all the hard work to synthesize the final product and a shit ton of programming. Having developed hardware and software for the pinball community (Pinduino), I can tell you that at the end of the day, I'm happy to have covered the costs of the R&D the hardware and consider my time as something that I do for fun. Not to mention that it is neat to have made something that other people enjoy putting in their games.

My tear down of BoP2.0 was just to show what goes into the kit, have a place where people get quickly find replacement parts, and understand the investment in hardware if they want to make their own 2.0 for another game.

#1826 2 years ago

Lyonsden - Not quoting the whole thing to save space but I agree with your assessment. I had the same type of experience but was in on the first kit so it was with Dutch Pinball. I have to wonder if some of the delay was with them communication with DP to get an answer. No clue as that is just speculation. I will say that I noticed a major decrease in CT's customer experience after they got their deal with Stern. Think they have just outgrown their ability to be as welcoming as they used to. Still good people but not like they used to be.

I hope you love your kit/game.

Quoted from awarner:

Will you like the kit? I haven't met anyone who didn't find it to be anything less than awesome.

I will openly admit and be the firing squad here. I really couldn't be more disappointed with the fun factor of the game. Not calling it a bad game but I just don't think it "fits" with me. I've had my kit and game restored for about a year now. I played the game quite a bit at first to try and get into it but never could. Take away the times that it's been played when friends come over to play and I haven't even turned the game on in at least 6 months. Fortunately friends like it but they don't come to play but once a month at best. Every time I play it with them I hope that I wind up liking it but when they leave it gets turned off and reminds me of why I don't play it. Tried so many strategies to play and I just can't get into it I've mentioned this before, but if I thought I could get most of my money out of the game as it stands I would sell it in a heart beat. I have 2 problems though. My wife doesn't want me to sell it and I would want a MINIMUM of what people would call stupid money for a BOP (I.E. close to $8K).

Quoted from awarner:

Only advice: Make sure all of the switches in your game and any other parts are working properly.

VERY good advice here. The 2.0 kit will exploit any minor malfunctions the game could have had. That switch may work fine in the factory set-up but a flaky switch will cause all kinds of issues once 2.0 is installed. I think it relates to how the switches are recognized and registered.

#1827 2 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Lyonsden - Not quoting the whole thing to save space but I agree with your assessment. I had the same type of experience but was in on the first kit so it was with Dutch Pinball. I have to wonder if some of the delay was with them communication with DP to get an answer. No clue as that is just speculation. I will say that I noticed a major decrease in CT's customer experience after they got their deal with Stern. Think they have just outgrown their ability to be as welcoming as they used to. Still good people but not like they used to be.
I hope you love your kit/game.

I will openly admit and be the firing squad here. I really couldn't be more disappointed with the fun factor of the game. Not calling it a bad game but I just don't think it "fits" with me. I've had my kit and game restored for about a year now. I played the game quite a bit at first to try and get into it but never could. Take away the times that it's been played when friends come over to play and I haven't even turned the game on in at least 6 months. Fortunately friends like it but they don't come to play but once a month at best. Every time I play it with them I hope that I wind up liking it but when they leave it gets turned off and reminds me of why I don't play it. Tried so many strategies to play and I just can't get into it I've mentioned this before, but if I thought I could get most of my money out of the game as it stands I would sell it in a heart beat. I have 2 problems though. My wife doesn't want me to sell it and I would want a MINIMUM of what people would call stupid money for a BOP (I.E. close to $8K).

VERY good advice here. The 2.0 kit will exploit any minor malfunctions the game could have had. That switch may work fine in the factory set-up but a flaky switch will cause all kinds of issues once 2.0 is installed. I think it relates to how the switches are recognized and registered.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I tend to like mode based games and BoP is probably never going to leave my collection. It was the pin that got me into pinball as a kid, the first game I bought (and overpaid for the POS it was), and I have spent more restoring it than I will ever hope to get out of it.

Hopefully with it being recently restored, I took care of any flakey switches at the time, but these are the operations that expose any weak spots in the game.

#1828 2 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Clip some of the zip ties on the harness and do some minor re-routing and that space opens up quite nicely. Probably not worth the effort unless you are OCD like me. I re routed a lot of wires when I did my restore to try and clean things up under the hood.

VERY neat.

#1829 2 years ago

First problem installing my kit. The wires coming from the PC that attach to the CSSC (Computer startup and shutdown controller) came unsoldered from inside the PC. I can solder them back, but it isn't obvious where they go. Does someone know? The PC that came in my kit is the gigabyte.

#1830 2 years ago

A couple of other questions:
1. How does one adjust the vertical on the image being display? The LCD controller on the back of the LCD vertical adjustment moves its menu, but not what is coming from the PC.
2. How does one get into the "adjust features" menu for 2.0?

#1831 2 years ago

Both of those should be through the service switch on the coin door

#1832 2 years ago
Quoted from travisbmartin:

Both of those should be through the service switch on the coin door

Thanks!

#1833 2 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Lyonsden - Not quoting the whole thing to save space but I agree with your assessment. I had the same type of experience but was in on the first kit so it was with Dutch Pinball. I have to wonder if some of the delay was with them communication with DP to get an answer. No clue as that is just speculation. I will say that I noticed a major decrease in CT's customer experience after they got their deal with Stern. Think they have just outgrown their ability to be as welcoming as they used to. Still good people but not like they used to be.
I hope you love your kit/game.

I will openly admit and be the firing squad here. I really couldn't be more disappointed with the fun factor of the game. Not calling it a bad game but I just don't think it "fits" with me. I've had my kit and game restored for about a year now. I played the game quite a bit at first to try and get into it but never could. Take away the times that it's been played when friends come over to play and I haven't even turned the game on in at least 6 months. Fortunately friends like it but they don't come to play but once a month at best. Every time I play it with them I hope that I wind up liking it but when they leave it gets turned off and reminds me of why I don't play it. Tried so many strategies to play and I just can't get into it I've mentioned this before, but if I thought I could get most of my money out of the game as it stands I would sell it in a heart beat. I have 2 problems though. My wife doesn't want me to sell it and I would want a MINIMUM of what people would call stupid money for a BOP (I.E. close to $8K).

VERY good advice here. The 2.0 kit will exploit any minor malfunctions the game could have had. That switch may work fine in the factory set-up but a flaky switch will cause all kinds of issues once 2.0 is installed. I think it relates to how the switches are recognized and registered.

Similar experience and I kind of decided that maybe it is because the game is just too difficult. I know you can adjust lots of settings but it started becoming more frustrating than enjoyable. A player of my ability hasn't got a hope of reaching metamorphosis the way it is currently coded.

Better players seem to enjoy it way more.

#1834 2 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

First problem installing my kit. The wires coming from the PC that attach to the CSSC (Computer startup and shutdown controller) came unsoldered from inside the PC. I can solder them back, but it isn't obvious where they go. Does someone know? The PC that came in my kit is the gigabyte.

Not sure why these are coming undone on run 3. Please see the post below and my response a couple posts later.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bop-20-owners-club-members-only/page/35#post-3412688

--Scott

#1835 2 years ago
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:

Not sure why these are coming undone on run 3. Please see the post below and my response a couple posts later.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bop-20-owners-club-members-only/page/35#post-3412688
--Scott

Perfect! Thanks, Scott.

#1836 2 years ago

Does anyone know if the cabinet speaker that comes with the kit is a 4 ohm or 8 ohm speaker? Mine doesn't have a product label on it other than "Flipper Fidelity."

#1837 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Does anyone know if the cabinet speaker that comes with the kit is a 4 ohm or 8 ohm speaker? Mine doesn't have a product label on it other than "Flipper Fidelity."

Mine is the same-- no marking as a 4 or 8 ohm.

#1839 2 years ago

Yeah, I used it and measured...4 ohms. It would be nice if someone could verify this, because my multimeter skills are...not skills.

#1840 2 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

Yeah, I used it and measured...4 ohms. It would be nice if someone could verify this, because my multimeter skills are...not skills.

I measured mine and got 4 ohms as well.

#1841 2 years ago

Two more questions about BoP2.0.

1: I was able to get the remote on/off wire connected properly to the CSSC (Computer startup and shutdown controller), but am having problems with it correct turning on and off the PC. The remote power works correctly (I can turn the PC on and off using the remote button on the CSSC. However, it doesn't power the computer on when I turn the game on and it will turn the computer off in mid game (nearly every time). The CSSC sometimes goes into error mode (flashing green and yellow light) which I can reset by unplugging power to it from the PC through the USB and the cable to the P-ROC. Scanning the DP BOP2 forums just talks about how the voltage to the CSSC from the P-ROC can be low based on being wired to +5V, but my kit came with it wired to the +12V. Has anyone run into this problem?

2: The helmet lights look like shit. Just randomly blinking rapidly. I do have NG-LEDs, which worked fine with the original software.

#1842 2 years ago
Quoted from lyonsden:

1: I was able to get the remote on/off wire connected properly to the CSSC (Computer startup and shutdown controller), but am having problems with it correct turning on and off the PC. The remote power works correctly (I can turn the PC on and off using the remote button on the CSSC. However, it doesn't power the computer on when I turn the game on and it will turn the computer off in mid game (nearly every time). The CSSC sometimes goes into error mode (flashing green and yellow light) which I can reset by unplugging power to it from the PC through the USB and the cable to the P-ROC. Scanning the DP BOP2 forums just talks about how the voltage to the CSSC from the P-ROC can be low based on being wired to +5V, but my kit came with it wired to the +12V. Has anyone run into this problem?

You may have a setting incorrect in your BIOS causing the PC to provide power to the USB ports even when the PC is shut down. I would take a look at the DP forums or reach out to Cointaker to figure out what setting that is ont eh Batch 3 kits. I am not sure off the top of my head.

--Scott

#1843 2 years ago
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:

You may have a setting incorrect in your BIOS causing the PC to provide power to the USB ports even when the PC is shut down. I would take a look at the DP forums or reach out to Cointaker to figure out what setting that is ont eh Batch 3 kits. I am not sure off the top of my head.
--Scott

Thanks for the pointer, Scott. I'll check out that lead.

#1844 2 years ago

Found this post: http://www.dutchpinball.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=105

Which had this change to the BIOS: "Update the setting called ERP Support to be enabled."

And that did the trick for getting the game to properly start/stop the PC when powered. Thanks again, Scott.

For the next question, do people's helmet lights look crappy? Mine just turn on and off (seemingly randomly) when 2.0 is running.

#1845 2 years ago

I had a problem with helmet lamps in a friend's BoP 2. I replaced the 2 transistors on the driver board that control the lamps and it corrected it. There is a thread on this on the dp site.

The theory was the transistors had aged and weren't triggering correctly of triggering too slowly

#1846 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheddar:

I had a problem with helmet lamps in a friend's BoP 2. I replaced the 2 transistors on the driver board that control the lamps and it corrected it. There is a thread on this on the dp site.
The theory was the transistors had aged and weren't triggering correctly of triggering too slowly

Thanks Cheddar -- I found your post in the DP forum (http://www.dutchpinball.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=64&p=368&hilit=helmet#p504). I'll give that a try and report back.

#1847 2 years ago

I replaced the transistors and still have a pretty random helmet blinking problem. I haven't had time to try anything else, but am open to suggestions.

#1848 2 years ago
Quoted from nwpinball:

I replaced the transistors and still have a pretty random helmet blinking problem. I haven't had time to try anything else, but am open to suggestions.

Molex connectors? I had to reflow (re solder) my light-pcb and cleaned the corroded molex pins. And bent them so vibrations couldn't be an issue. That solved all the helmet issues I had.
On a side note I hate the old connectors, especially the flat ribbon cables... I had at least 20 issues on different pins, that were all related to them. Form gen1 ZZZ to wpc95.

#1849 2 years ago

With my BoP 2.0 installation finished, I had a chance to take a video of the pinduino lighting effects. This was programmed against the 1.0 software, but the effects in BoP 2.0 work very well. Nice to have one program for the pinduino that works well for both games:

#1850 2 years ago

Looks good Eric. Different, but good. Doesn't seem like the lights fire when the ball goes up the shuttle ramp, more just firing randomly. Pinduino definitely adds to the game though, and I love it!

On another note, whats up with the helmet lights? I think someone said before that they look like they are just freaking out. I hadn't noticed that before, but they were right! I hope that is something controllable in the 2.0 programming and they will fix the code. Just look like a whole bunch of random flashers right now.

Still waiting on my 2.0 kit. Nothing from CT since they told me they would be getting a hold of me soon to pay the rest of my money--a month ago....

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