Hi ... Trying to get my buddy's Bone Busters working all the way ... The pop bumper and the ball shooter (way down in lower left of PF) do not work ... Switches seem good ... Coils test good and fire when given current (diodes on coils tested good)... I tested most of components on the mini boards that control these and the little boards seem good .... He got game with a Swemmer MPU, NiWumpf Driver Board and NVRAM Power Supply Switcher board.

During Self Test (Self Relay and Solenoid Test) > the Pop Bumper and the Ball Shooter (in lower left) never fire .....

UPDATE >> I noticed in Owner's Manual it says "L12 enables ball shooter" > so LAMP 12 ?? No lamp 12 listed (see photos) ... WHERE IS LAMP 12 ?? and does this mean if lamp 12 is burned out (or socket is bad) that the shooter won't fire ??? (or bad component on lamp driver board)?? BTW >> One of the red light tubes is not working ... and LED's were installed in the head (behind the translight)

ALSO > see the Ball Shooter is dependent on the state of the "S" Relay ? Top Left Flipper works (so does the skull topper ... skull turn and jaw moves ... Not sure if it lights up) .... Since top left flipper works >> then the "S" RELAY IS NOT THE PROBLEM ??

AND > The pop bumper coil and left shooter coil have diodes across the lugs ... ARE THEY BOTH SUPPOSE TO have a diode on coil ?? This game has a couple small Diode Boards under the playfield .... I don't want to remove the diodes and fry something (but if diode on coil is an "extra" diode would that stop solenoid from firing??) ...

Any help would be greatly appreciated !!! Thank You !

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Hi Cheddar ... Thank you for Replying ! There is a separate little board for pop bumper and little board for for "Kicker" (but I think it is for the shooter) ... I tested the bottle cap transistors and they gave same readings on DMM ... My friend bought a new pop bumper board and I put that in and it didn't solve the pop bumper problem ... Would like to fix both problems ... but right now the most pressing problem is the left ball shooter as he can't play game with it not working ... So it won't just be a bad lamp or socket ? but could be bad transistor (??) on lamp driver board ?

Lamp Driver transistor > OK ... I see in Owner's Manual there is a small lamp driver board (must be under PF) ... NiWumpf board drives some lights also ? there are 2 red LED's lit up on that board (E-8 and E-10) > but I contacted them when my buddy first got the game and thought they told me that those being lit up was OK ...?????

"Left Ball Shooter" > it's the kicker under the lower left side of apron ... I thought it was called "up kicker" but that shoots ball up into ramp ... guess they calling it "left Shooter" (see photo) and swear I saw couple places in schematic where it said "left ball shooter" ...

Brings up 2 interesting questions >> #1 >> I thought one of the tiny boards on right side of lower cabinet was for the "left shooter" ... but in manual says "kicker" ... Maybe I am mistaken ?? or maybe they mislabeled board in manual ?? #2 >> I just realized that L12 says "ball shooter" (NOT left ball shooter) ... maybe that is just for the solenoid (under RIGHT side of apron) that kicks ball into shooter lane to start the game and such ...?? ... Thought that was called "Outhole" ??

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SEE ATTACHED PHOTOS
Also > Guessing the Q1 Q2 Q3 in solenoid test are referring to the transistors on this board ..... I am pretty sure I checked these bottle cap transistors (and they gave same readings) ... They are on a board in between the pop bumper board and "kicker" board .... When I did the Solenoid and relay self test > a couple of the solenoids #'s didn't fire any coils > but some lamps in head flashed so thought that solenoid # just controlled lights .... ??? ... is that possible ?? or I should have heard a coil firing on every solenoid # during the test ?

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I was looking at that this morning ... but can't figure out which transistor drives it ...? ... I'm not that good at reading schematics ...

P.S. I called Ni Wumpf and left a message ... want to double check those 2 red led's on their board don't mean problems ...

Pinball is at buddy's house ... but in my notes I had E8 and E10 ... they are in upper left of the board as I recall ... I do not have a photo ...

So looks like lamp drivers are labeled as "Q's" on the Wi Numpf board ... ... and solenoids are "QS's" ... So not sure what "E's" are ?? says E10 is for test circuitry ... maybe E8 is also ?? but looks like not the problem ??

Here is from NiWumpf website >

"Each driver circuit is equipped with fault detection circuitry and LED's that will blink when actuatued, and light steady to indicate circuit failure.

Note that the LED will remain lit when a game does not support the associated playfield driver components. Similarly, it will light if the fuse is blown, or the coil is shorted.

Driver Circuit
The board was designed to follow the original Gottlieb component functionality as described on the original driver board. So where the original board had ICs Z1 - Z12, this board has the same numbered components. Where the lamp transistors were Q1 - Q52, this board has similarly labeled components that are numbered Q0 - Q51. Why - you ask? I was *always* confused by L0 corresponding to Q1 on the original schematics, and I wanted THIS board to line up the component numbering with the lamp assignments on the playfield schematics! And finally, where the original board had solenoid 1 - 9 output transistors, this board has FETs QS1 - QS9. In this way, the user can follow the original schematics when troubleshooting the board.

It should be noted, that on the System 80, and 80A games, solenoids 3, 4, and 7 were assigned to coin counters for the games (not the case for System 80B games). Most games do NOT have this circuitry, and these LEDs will be lit normally in operation for these circuits. Additionally, there will be an LED lit on the test circuitry for E10 (not used)- this is normal."

OK !!! I will double check Q13 ... From schematic it looks like Q13 is on the main Driver Board (now WiNumpf) ... Dave at Wi Numpf did call me back and said the E10 LED should be ON (as it is) .. and he couldn't remember what E8 was for but he didn't think it had anything to do with pop bumper or "left shooter/kicker" ... He thought the "kicker" board was for the "left shooter" and that neither the pop bumper or "left shooter" went thru the Wi Numpf Driver Board > but signals went straight to the little specialized boards .... I did check with the bottle cap transistors on the Pop bumper board and the "Kicker" board and got the same readings (although if both are bad then that wouldn't matter ... but I put a new pop bumper board in > and pop bumper still didn't work (so think it's not the little boards)??? ... Hmmmm ...

I did see something on Pinwiki (i think) about checking the "path" from board to coil ... I will try to figure out how to do that ... and report back ... planning on going over to my buddy's house on Sunday ...

Fuses are good ... I will go to his house in next few days and try the connect a jumper wire to coil and touch other end to case of transistor and see if coil fires ... Guess that tells you if the "path of wires" is good or if there a short some where ... Thanks for your help ! Will keep this thread updated ...

I found this on the schematic >> so the small "kicker" board is definitely the board for the "left ball shooter" (the part numbers match up > see photo) ... On schematic Also found that 5 VDC is suppose to go from MPU to Kicker board (and which connector and pin) ... So i am going to buddy's house tomorrow ... Will see if have 5 VDC at kicker board (and pop bumper board) ... If not will check and see if MPU is sending the 5 VDC .. if it is I will check continuity thru the wire (from MPU to kicker board) ... One question >> If pinball is on and game started should there ALWAYS be 5 VDC leaving the MPU on that pin ?? Or does the 5 VDC only show up when the switch in the left ball shooter is activated ???

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OK ... I will report back tomorrow evening ! Thanks !

Well the "left ball shooter/kicker" fires when activated manually by running a jumper wire from coil and touching wire to a resistor on the "kicker board" ... Would NOT activate by touching the case of the bottle cap transistor >> so I am going to order one of those transistors (to rule that out) ...

Also, pop bumper solenoid would NOT engage (when touching a jumper wire from coil to ground strap) so I am ordering one of those ... (I SWEAR i tested that when he first got the pinball ... but that has been a few months ago so may have forgotten some of what was done) ...

And couple weeks ago I found a bad diode (D9) on the "Diode Switching Board" ... on schematic says it "goes to the skull" ... Skull moves side to side and jaw moves ... Don't think it lights up ?? so maybe that is part of that problem ... Will order that diode also ...

Will update this again when have those parts

Only one pop bumper on Bone Busters .... my buddy had previously ordered 3 New pop bumper boards made by Gulf Pinball (not sure why he ordered 3?) ... but I happen to look that board up and it says it works for "pop bumper" AND "kicker" (even though boards are slightly different ... and Gulf Pinball calls it pop bumper board) .... so I called him and he is going to install one of those for the "kicker" and LMK if that solves the problem ... I hope it does !! >> but OMG >> if it does I will be bummed I spent so much time trying to track down the problem ... LOL ... Wish Gulf Pinball had printed on the board that is pop bumper and kicker replacement ... UGH ... Keeping my fingers crossed though ! Should know by tonight !

My buddy said he put the board in and the ball still gets stuck in the left shooter/kicker (and a new ball doesn't get pushed out to the shoot lane > as it can "LOCK" a ball there for multi ball) .... S#IT ... 4 balls in the machine ... Rollover switch at the "shooter/kicker" is adjusted properly ...

Man, I am just running out of ideas ....

P.S. Thinking it CAN'T be one of the switches under the apron that senses how many balls are in the trough and shoots another out to the shooter lane (when a ball gets "locked) ... ??? ... At this point replacing those switches would be "cheap" but I just don't see how that could be the problem ..... ?

I put it in test mode yesterday (without the new "kicker" board) ... and no report of bad switch ... but lamp 12 didn't make any lights flash or any solenoids fire ... Also, solenoid 8 doesn't make anything happen and that is for the "knocker" and someone unplugged and removed the knocker (don't think that would have any effect on the "left shooter/kicker" ... ?

P.S. Yesterday >> I measured for 5 VDC coming off the MPU (connector A1J6 ... pin18) and only got 3 VDC ... page 45 of owner's manual .... It was hard to test as it is an edge connector > so I unplugged connector and tried to get tip of multimeter probe on trace(?) on back side of MPU ... I didn't think that was an issue because 5 VDC light is lit up on MPU (as it is suppose to be) ... and when I connected a jumper wire directly to the coil and other end to the resistor on the original "kicker" board, the solenoid fired ... so thought I just wasn't getting good contact on the probe to trace #18 of the MPU ...?? ... If the solenoid fired with the jumper >> wouldn't that mean the board was getting enough power ???

As far as I can tell > it doesn't show bad switches or problems on Start Up like later games ... you just run the test and have to listen for solenoids firing and watch for lamps flashing ... ??

Nothing happened when I had the jumper wire connected to the coil and touched the other end of jumper wire to the metal case of the bottle cap transistor (on the "kicker" board) ... but I accidentally touched end of jumper wire to a resistor on the board and that fired the shooter/kicker solenoid ... So thought may that Transistor was bad ? ... (Now we have a new replacement board installed and the shooter/kicker still doesn't fire when ball goes in) ....

SO you are saying > I need to connect jumper wire to ground strap and touch other end of wire to Transistor on board ... and if coil fires then that proves the wiring from the board to the coil is OK ... ? ... IF solenoid doesn't activate > THEN if I splice a jumper wire from the little "kicker" board wire harness to the lug of the coil (to lug with unbanded side of diode attached?) then that will bypass any "breaks in original wiring/connectors ? WHICH WIRE on the connector to board should I splice onto ?? (see photo from page 40 of schematics) ... Pin 1 is kicker solenoid input . Pin 2 is kicker solenoid ground . Pin 3 has no wire to it. Pin 4 is kicker switch input . Pin 5 is 5 VDC . Pin 6 is DC ground .

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OK ... going to be a few days until I get the new pop bumper coil in the mail and drive out to buddy's house ... Will update then !

Cheddar
Sorry for delay (went back to buddy's house 2 more times) ... The kicker/shooter in the lower left under the apron DID fire when I touched a jumper wire to bottle cap transistor on the mini board (with other end of wire touching the ground strap) .... SO this tells us that the wiring from the mini board to the kicker/shooter is good ??? and that the mini board is getting the 5VDC ?? SO wiring from head to mini board could be the problem ? I did use contact cleaner on a couple of the connectors from the head to lower cabinet (even though the pins didn't look dirty or corroded) .... but that didn't fix it ...

Also > I saw something on Pinwiki that said on the system 80b's > if some solenoids don't fire it is often the ground wires/connectors on the metal plate that the transformer is mounted to ... I tried cleaning the male pins and switching the connectors to different male pins > and that didn't change anything ... Pinwiki said switching the connectors isn't a guarantee to eliminate these ground wires as a problem (as the wires going into the female connector could be the problem... but usually switching finds the issue) ... Pinwiki says way to fix this problem is to cut the female connectors off, crimp the wires onto round electrical connectors and screw these electrical connectors directly to the metal plate the transformer is attached to .... SHOULD I do this next?? or is there an easier way to check for bad connectors or a broken wire ?? OR can I run run a jumper wire from one of the wires leaving the driver board to one of the wires going into the mini board (thus bypassing all the connectors(except the connector on the board) and any possible broken wires) ... .Where would I connect the wire ??

THANKS !!!

Cheddar
OK ... I was HOPING that "proved" there was 5V to mini board (but I tested voltage coming off wire on connector A1J6 pin 18 MPU >page 46 in owner's manual > and only got 3VDC (and got 3VDC on that edge connector also but it was hard to get in there to test edge connector) ... and tested wire on pin 5 of mini board for kicker and only got .03VDC >page 40 of manual ) ... also the new mini boards have a test button that is suppose to make the solenoid fire (and light up a red 5v LED) and neither of those things happen when pushing the test button ....

Not worried about the pop bumper right now (as can play game even if pop bumper doesn't work .... but can't play game with the kicker/left shooter not working as ball gets "stuck" down there) ... Originally, I did clean and check the switch for the kicker and looked good ... guess I could use DMM on continuity and close the switch to make sure it is working ?? (but I don't think that is the problem) ....

So isn't there a way to just run a new wire (or 2?) from the MPU (or driver board) to the mini board for the kicker ??? (wouldn't that just bypass any bad connectors or broken wires ?) ... Which connectors and wire#'s would be the ones that will make it fire when it is suppose to????
When I was testing for the 5VDC from mpu to little kicker board >> I stripped the coating off the 2 wires (mentioned above) and ran a jumper but it still didn't work ... maybe because of 3VDC ?? So should I send the mpu to Swemmer and have them test it? Or the driver board to Niwumpf? ... (guessing it ISN'T the driver board> since the game has the miniboards ?? >> Don't they take the place of a transistor on the driver board?) .... I previously contact both Swemmer and Niwumpf and it sounded like both boards were OK (and the lights that were lit up on boards were suppose to be lit and not problems) .... I didn't really think problem was with the boards as they are newer ... and figured the previous owner bought the new boards trying to fix the problem ... BUT maybe it is one of boards ?????

THANKS !!
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Cheddar
OR could I run a jumper from 5VDC (coming off power supply board) directly to mini board ??? (if you think the 3VDC is the problem... thus saving having to send the MPU back to Swemmer) ....

Cheddar
I was getting 3vdc on wire leaving the connector on MPU and on the edge connector ... and only .03 vdc at the wire going into the mini board ... (so basically nothing) ... as I recall the pop bumper board had basically zero voltage also ...

I am getting tired of driving 45 minutes to buddy's (and buddy is frustrated and thinking of just selling it because he can't play it) .... ... Hate to drive all the way back there just to double check it's 3v coming off board, drive home, go back in week or two, and maybe have to do this a few more times ... Everything else works (except the pop bumper and the left shooter/kicker) so seems unlikely board is really messed up ... Can't I just steal 5 volts from somewhere else (run a jumper wire) ??? (from something in lower cabinet (easiest) or off the 5vdc wire leaving the power supply board in head)

Cheddar
So where would be best / easiest place to get 5 vdc from ?

ALSO >> Since there are mini boards (with transistors) for the pop bumper and the left kicker/shooter can we rule out the Ni Wumpf driver board (as cause of the problem) ???