Add a pole, poles are fun.

I haven't played either and you have a very large collection (not average) so you don't have to make decisions based on what works best for family etc.

Go try a TS4 and see if you like it. My guess is most will recommend bond.

Nobody is buying “limited” or “collector edition” pinball machines because they have any interest in value. So it’s kind of a silly question.

“A $1,000 omelette infused with truffles and gold flakes vs. 4 ounces of Almas caviar: what’s the better value?”

If you have to ask, you probably aren’t the intended customer.

Have you played either?

Bond is kinda open, tight shots, and not finished. Played it myself - wasn't a fan
Toy story is pretty - bright - nice light show. Lift ramp is cool, but all the shots are crammed in the back right corner. Not a fan of this one myself either.

I guess what I'm saying is..play both.

Are you talking about the Elwin Bond single level SLE or the Bond LE? Both are linked. Hard to say on the SLE since no one has seen anything substantial including the price.

If you are talking the regular Bond LE vs TS4 CE then I'll take what will likely be the unpopular route and chose TS4:

1. There was a lot of complaining that TS4 is over priced. That said the street prices of the two games is probably pretty similar at this point. I also feel the JJP games include more for the money including a very nice topper, full RGB lighting, better quality decals, and bigger screen.

2. I don't have much nostalgia for those 60s Bond movies which came out before I was born.

3. The code is clearly better at this stage on TS4.

4. Minor point and subjective but TS4 looks better, especially the playfield art.

An okay collection
At 17

Best play value or best resale value? LE, being limited, would more likely hold resale value unless it's a clunker I guess. I played TS4, never played Bond LE. I agree that the Duke Kaboom lift ramp is a cool, repeatable, smooth flowing shot. I was able to shoot 7 in a row, ramp to flipper.

Bond is the better buy in my opinion.

You have some pretty expensive games and have a lot invested in it. What does your gut tell you?

I would probably wait until Bond is actually released before you make this decision. No one actually has a bond LE, yet you are asking which one is a better value.

really funny coming from a guy named PinPickle

Both of these machines should be pushed down into the Grand Canyon

haha

If you want value get a Bond Pro. But I think Bond LE will likely lose less value than TS CE.

Both are super expensive for what they are.

Played TS4 on location - no desire to play one again.

If you enjoy having newbies around, I would seriously look at White Water.

I’m sure Bond will be great. But Toy Story is much much better than its rep. I was part of the negative initial reaction. Then I randomly took one on trade… thought I’ll get some plays in, the family will love it and I’ll love on.

Now I’m scrambling to find a way to keep it. I love the theme so sure I could be a bit partial, but generally I only keep games that I love playing regardless of theme.

It’s by far the easiest modern game I’ve owned, and that concerns me. But I have harder games if I want that challenge. There is something charming about the way TS4 is coded.

TS4 is what it is. I don't particularly care for it. Bond is way too early to tell. I don't know but I can think of a lot of other games I'd rather spend that money on. Why even get the LE or CE if its not an absolute dream theme for you?

I have not played Bond to be fair, but I am in the minority in liking Toy Story. I was amazed at the lack of toys in a toy story machine just like everyone else. It does shoot and play very well. I do make animated ball driven mods for it. Slink is available now and I am still working on Zurg and Rex mechs. Slinks head bobbles, Zurgs cannon arm raises and Rex’s mouth will chatter.

430EF693-0155-414F-88F5-719B0C48B322 (resized).jpeg

666C04C5-AE95-46F9-847C-2B3CD9ABD0AD (resized).jpeg

I love what you did in there. I may need all of what you did here. Having said this, I love TS4 and looking forward to Bond coming hopefully in December. Play both. Then decide.

I may be wrong.

Ultimate collectability is determined by scarcity and desirability.

Both the LE and the CE are going to be equal in scarcity.

So, it will come down to desirability.

What is the connection that each brings to people's hearts? Toy Story 4 is a lesser pixar movie, an echo of the first couple of movies that are better. Bond (Sean Connery) is remembered best by people who are old enough to be almost dead.

So both of them aren't going to connect insanely strongly to people's hearts... at least not vast numbers of the population's hearts.

Finally comes intrinsic value. Does the PINBALL part of this collectable piece have collectable value?

For Bond LE we'll have to see once they finish the software.

Toy Story 4's current status seems murky. I don't hear lots of people saying that it is the best game JJP has ever made, so it's possible that it will take it's place in the line-up of great JJP pinballs, without standing out exceptionally.

For my money, I'd like to have an investment in something scarce, remarkable, with good connection to what I love in life, and that is fun to show people how remarkable this thing is.

Both of these machines do a pretty good job. We'll have to see how Bond plays. If it ends up being a remarkable best-thing-Stern-has-ever-made pinball it will get the nod.

Played both alittle…

C.) save your money for something better.

I don't think either game has that much upside potential. TS4 CE's are already selling for less than MSRP. Will Bond end up "shaking" into such a good game that at 1000 units of LE it appreciates greatly in value compared to a premium? I feel like they will be about the same percentage of loss/gain except you're paying A LOT more up front for the LE.

I mean if you have the means to blow all the extra money on an unneeded LE/CE just get both and then sell the one you like less.

That damn iPad....

Can't argue with the amount of effort put into TS4. Can't say there's that much effort put into Bond. JJP has clearly proven they're extremely passionate about every theme they work on, and it shows in their final product. I haven't played either, but TS4 is the one I'd pick. Ford vs Ferrari, simple as that.

I'm glad someone finally had the courage and vision to compare pinball machines to cars !

Right? I'd define an "okay collection" of 3 to 5. Honestly 1 pinball machine is an okay collection, lol. Anything beyond 10, and you've got a baller collection, if you ask me.

To answer your question, I'd choose the "neither" option.

No idea. Stern LEs and JJP CEs are for check-cutters and I couldn't give a shit less.

I assume the TS4 shoots much better than a Gomez once you increase the flipper strength

Go to any mall and ask 100 people (not that there are even 100 people at a mall anymore) would you enjoy a free toy story pinball machine or a free james bond pinball machine. Probably 70 percent on the people wont even know who james bond is........... Then go to the old folks home and ask the same question. I dont get the james bond thing, Most of your target audience that relates to the theme has one foot in the grave????????? I personally think the quality of the jersey jack games are way over the top compared to the other manufactures. I think lior mods feels the same as he seems to cater more to the jj games. as the previous example of fords vs ferraris, timex vs rolex. diversity makes the world go around,everyone likes something different.

I went to a mall and asked 100 people if they knew what a pinball machine was and I got 100 blank stares. And then security asked me to leave.

It probably had to do with you driving around the mall in a white van with free candy painted on the side. not the pinball reference. haha. This is a joke mods ! stop banning me

Who has the money to buy a $13,000-$18,000 pinball?

People who have been building wealth for a long time have that kind of money.

The demographic of 'I have $20,000 I can spend on a whim' skews toward older people.

Neither.

Look at older pins that are still in high demand. They either have special mechs, an excellently executed theme or are super rare. Or a combination of this.

Bond’s mechs are ok-ish but is a swinging wand, a vibrating rocket and a vertical upkicker through a toy car really exciting? The theme integration may make it great but who knows.

Toy Story doesn’t stand out other than for its cash grab and it’s colorful. I think it’s a perfectly fine pinball machine but not outstanding. Maybe if JJP stops making them due to lack of demand could it soar in value.

If you want to pinvest, choose something else.

Neither game appeals to me.

I vote for C - something else

Actually I was driving around in a white van offering people free speakers!

If jj stopped making toy story now, prices would skyrocket ! You have to make the market want what they cant have. If you flood the market with anything no one wants it. take for instance hess trucks for you old folk. Rolex is making a killing right now holding back or limiting production !

I couldn’t seem to find the option for Neither!!

Bro says he has an "ok" collection
image_2022-11-29_113713950.png
You must have an extremely warped sense of money or 'A' pinball titles.

If you look at his collection clearly money isn't an issue

If I was to spend $10K-$12K plus for a pin, it would be a HEP pin. Then I could start a thread on "which HEP pin to buy?"

I like Toy Story 4 best. I went to the Chicago 2022 Pinball Expo and it was my wife’s and mine favorite game. Our second favorite game was Cactus Canyon. We spent most of our time playing those two games. I didn’t care much for the new Bond game. Kinda boring.

Hmmm... one is $13,500, isn't even out yet but was released at a massively huge jacked up MSRP vs. previous titles and has super bare-bones code that probably will take a couple years to shake out, we also have no idea how "good" it will be in the end. The other is 15k and has a super bare-bones playfield and the main toy is a single pop-up doll head and an oversized iPad that plays video pinball.

There's no losing choice here, I say buy both!

Does that make my collection mediocre

Yeah that’s creepy.

creepy sexy

Not sure what that’s aboot.

You never do till they get you in the back of the van! Could be fun...or just speakers

Get a Bond Premium and just play it. The LE CE bullshit is ruining this hobby.

Well "they" keep telling us it's the only thing funding the hobby and the only way prices "stay low!"