It's not just a one way gate, it's a controlled gate. You can see the spring on the side and the screw on top is for the magnetic core that pulls up the one-way-flap
(Topic ID: 321756)
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James Bond 007 (LE)
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Quoted from CrazyLevi:If there's one thing I've learned from Bond movies, it's that the countdown clock never actually reaches 000.
Two Minutes to Midnight on Iron Maiden is the opposite. The voice callouts for how much time is left don't sync up the to timer on the screen at all (because the screen timer is going at 2x speed - because why make this wizard mode actually two minutes when you can make it one minute /s)
I don't think there is another different game by Keith
At most maybe they redo The Beatles with a James Bond layer of paint and say that Keith tweaked some of the rules. But even that is not some trivial project. There's a lot of work to do in terms of art, sound, and video. So I really doubt it.
Also it would make more sense to retheme a home game. (tbh I'd love to see what Keith could do with the restrictions of a home game, mostly because I think he could do a very good job of it even if it's not the best use of his talents at Stern)
I agree it makes no sense to put Keith on anything but huge cornerstone licenses (which is also why it makes no sense to keep him restricted to a SLE price range)
I'm just curious about what a home game from him would look like because he's very clever with his BOM
I'm pretty "woke"
I just don't bother to argue with you dudes because you all a) don't actually care about the problem b) have some pretty dumb opinions based on your jokes and c) it's not worth it because no one is about to change their minds on this issue in a pinball forum
So maybe we knock it off with all the weak trans jokes?
Or let's make poor taste jokes about how it's Bond women because Gomez is the designer. If you want to collect girls, get Trudeau out of jail
See...that's how you make a bad taste joke while punching down on someone who actually deserves it
Quoted from BallyKISS1978:I am a awake, not woke. Your still asleep if your woke.
I don't know what I just read
Quoted from kklank:I stopped paying attention to what you said after, “I’m pretty woke”….. Lol.
Hey look, it's an actual sentence and coherent thought.
Also James Bond guys! We gotta keep this hype train going for a few more days. Ummm... the little loop shot around the missile looks cool and is an interesting use of a drop target bank and one-way-wire.
One last thing on Bond Women vs Bond Girls
Based on the aggressively mediocre art package I've seen in blurry photos, I'm willing to go with inattention to detail as just as likely as "wokeness" for the text.
We really need some gameplay footage. Nitpicking things to convince ourselves we don't want the latest hotness only leads to internal strife.
Quoted from zaphX:The extra delay on the game seems to have made this thread devolve into a shitshow.
We might as well get it out of the way now and start a real thread next week
I am curious about what the rocket does
I hope at the very minimum it goes vertically up and down.
The dream being it goes down far enough that it is a subway gobblehole, but probably not. A camera like aperture opening would be an amazingly cool yet expensive mech
Quoted from Wizcat:Hello, Doctor? Yes, well I was repairing my pinball machine, and I just happened to be naked at the time and I had no idea this rocket thing, well...
I hope you provide pinball guests with a lot of complimentary hand sanitizer (bring your own lube)
Wait is there going to be a video mode in Bond? Would it be Stern's first since Star Wars?
Just as an idea, a shooting mode similar to something like Indiana Jones could work. Style it like the famous gun barrel intro, pan left and right with the flipper buttons, line up on an enemy agent, hit the action button (ok, maybe this mode idea looses a lot of the effect without a gun handle trigger). On a successful shot, a red light show sweeps down from the top of the screen and continues with red lighting to fill out the playfield from back to drain.
Or I always had a softspot for the video mode in Maverick. It's a quick hand of blackjack, hit or stay. They could do a simple video mode of baccarat that is quick and simple and gives the player a reward like an outlane ball save
Quoted from gdonovan:It makes perfect sense if you look at Jurassic Park; Stern got 4 different pins out of the same IP purchase.
A street level game makes Stern more sales and a minimum a $1000 less than the pro.
Normies love Bond, instantly recognizable IP.
what exactly makes it $1,000 less than a pro? Street level doesn't automatically mean it's that much cheaper than if it had some ramps.
Quoted from KJL:Wow! I love this thread. All it needs to be truly epic is the LE to come out with a single slot coin door
Isn't single slot coin doors the shipping default for exports?
Quoted from gdonovan:I dont know, you would have to ask Stern.
High end price for JP home is listed at $4300
https://cointaker.com/products/jurassic-park-pin
Yeah because it's made of MDF and has a lot less mechanisms in it than a typical game (and cuts some corners like making slings fire together as one unit)
Quoted from gdonovan:And? People are buying them us all that counts to Stern.
You're the one who brought up the home game and arbitrarily said a street level should be a thousand less than a pro
For some reason people just assume single levels are cheaper. A game like The Beatles has more stuff in it than some contemporary premiums (4 flippers, 3 drop target banks, magnets, opto spinners, etc)
I don't think those ramps move. Maybe on the premium
I think maybe there is a diverter to the right of the rocket (like the Batman 66 ball lock). But that's about it. Shoot it up the center and it U turns like Deadpool, or the diverter swings out and to guide the ball to a lock (probably premium only)
I think the issue is a lot of people, myself included, use single level and street level inter changeably when there is a difference
All street level games are single level. Not all single level should be called street level
I kinda wonder if it’s a baccarat video mode or similar.
If this game lets you bet points, I’m all in
I still think the 4th is going to be something like a SLE Goldfinger with some gold trim and maybe a few other cosmetics. Maybe an exclusive topper
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:Batman SLE (like others after it) was a joke - nowhere near being worth the extra cost over an LE. Ridiculously cheap added toys and pinstriping that peeled off under normal use.
Stern has certainly capitalized on buyers willing to pay absurd prices just to own a limited "best" version.
You're not mentioning the biggest feature of the SLE: custom callouts from Adam West for each SLE owner
(Granted, the callout is basically a bunch of iterations on "Shoot the batphone, [name]")
The way to make the SLE "worth it" is to just have one small mechanical or software difference. Custom call out, extra mode, special topper, etc...
Also "worth" is very subjective in a hobby with such deep pockets
I can pretty much guarantee there are modders out there about to go scavenge gun holders from parted out games. The trigger could be rewired to the action button. You'd loose the manual plunge, but it would work for full launching and anything the game is going to use the button for (looks like it could be for activating playfield X)
Transphobic jokes last week and homophobic comments today... Fun times while we wait out the announcement clock
Quoted from cooked71:Still don’t get this 4th but different version of the game being released at the same time. You’re just cannibalising sales. This hobby is ridiculous but no one is buying both versions.
That's why it's a different game
If they updated an old Stern like Sea Witch and the Beatles, I could see a universe with a Quicksilver where they have a Pro model equivalent. Hell, they could cut a few more corners and make it a home pin by driving certain mechs with the same transistors. There's not a lot going on mechanical in Quicksilver compared to Seawitch.
Or I'd love to see an original single level by Keith. I think single levels are rad and more interesting than a lot of other modern games iterating on the same basic fan layout (at least this Gomez Bond isn't a traditional fan, woot)
Quoted from NoSkills:I really hope if this Elwin version is true, it doesn't push him to the back of the design queue for a new game
It seems like Stern's schedule is so boned, maybe he just had the extra time. He's probably already on his white wood for his next-next-game. (and Keith isn't a one man team either, he has a whole team that needs to stay busy even when their product gets bumped back in the production timelines)
Quoted from 80sMan:Yes! Maybe the secret game is called 'Pussy Galore!' now that would be some collector's piece, no doubt about it.
Don't give the guys who ask if their $15k pinball machine is going to blow them any funny ideas
Quoted from Smack:Does GZ hard end your game or does it just reset back to the Ball 1 state (more or less) with your score carried over?
It rolls credits and youre done
Quoted from RGR:Not sure how I feel about code where the game ends.....
Depending on the story a game tells, it can make sense to end it. It makes perfect sense on games like TNA, Stern JP, and Heist
And considering how much stuff you gotta do to get to the end of a game like Godzilla...do you really wanna keep playing it after spending the last 90 minutes doing everything to do in the game? The game poops points in the super final wizard mode, so if it's about increasing your high score then you'd have to grind a long time before you start to really add much more to the total. (Also I'd say it's an interesting challenge to know a game has an end state and you need to maximize your scoring along the way)
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:well if take the IFPA rules then you must grade the game of having an TPG of one ball.
Now there may be other issues that can come up as well but are not likely maybe the best idea is to use the really good game rule say any one who get's an game ending mode is tied 1st.
To get to the game over state in Godzilla, you are going to play for over a hour. So the typical slaughter rule of "end your game and you are promised a first place finish so the round can move" would be more likely to come into play than the actual game over screen
That said, if Godzilla was in an unlimited qualifying, I don't think "beating" the game should get you special consideration (And again, the game showers you with points for getting to the end anyway). You gotta maximize your points along the way.
I remember Scott Danesi mentioning a fun way to play TNA is to set the reactors needed to win the game from 9 to 1. Then it is a whole new challenge of scoring a lot of points, but also trying to avoid completing the game.
Quoted from WilhuffTarkin:So all LEs are sold out and sold straight from Stern?
Traditional Stern doesn't sell anything direct. They go through a distributor network. (Where Stern sells through all the LEs, and then the distributors hold the LEs...go find a distributor with a LE to buy one)
But lately Stern has offered to sell some of the LEs on their site in addition to having the distributor network.
So really it's whichever way you want to buy it. But keep in mind, most distributors tend to already know how many LE's they're getting and have a wait list of buyers. And when it goes live on the Stern website, I'd be surprised if it doesn't sell out within a hour (likely within minutes).
I think you need Stern Insider to order with Stern, but not positive.
Quoted from Palmer:This to me would be the opposite of smart. LEs are purchased because they are limited. If there are 2,000 made, it really isn't limited any more.
It's still limited, it's just not as rare.
Which is a good thing in my opinion... It only sucks for those trying to flip them for profit.
Quoted from Palmer:Yes it is technically limited. I guess if there is demand for 2K LEs, then it is a good idea. We'll see.
Yeah if the demand is there, then the supply is limited. I think it's something Stern can get away with (unlike JJP "limited edition" games where there is often more supply than demand)
Quoted from NashtyFunk:Doesn’t feel like less than 24 hours to a reveal does it?
I'm still excited to see what the LCD screen looks like
Quoted from dts:Gomez plus an upper flipper, what's not to like?
People will rush to tell us in another sixteen hours or so
Quoted from Billygrippo:Get your pinflation money ready!
[quoted image]
High roller dollar games extreme edition
I'm actually kinda bummed at only 500 Elwin Editions. God I hope it's not too expensive, but it sounds loaded off the description...
Quoted from PanzerKraken:haha not expensive...
I mean hopefully not more than 9k, but I know that's a pipe dream...
Quoted from Mrsiyufy:Probably more like I hope not more than 19k
The worst part is I know how many people are going to try to flip it as a super rare Elwin game for the Elwin diehard fans. Ugh... I just love single level designs
Quoted from Spacemanratso09:What does the rocket do?
Giggle?
It’s like a dildo ? Lol
Seriously what does it do
it wiggles and jiggles as you hit it
I made a thread on the Elwin game to break it out of the Gomez game chat
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/james-bond-60th-edition-sle-super-limited-elwin-hype-thread
It'd be fun if the rocket was cocktail mixer that shook (even better if it could load balls for Martini Multiball)
The rocket is fun too though. Great visual
Quoted from CrazyLevi:That's not how pinball works.
besides, I thought Beatles used up all the "WWE gold rails they have laying around!"
that was GOTG (ok actually maybe that one is true lol)
Nah, that's definitely not irony.
Irony is a firehouse catching on fire. Saying it's a beautiful day when it's a blizzard.
Something unusual or unexpected is not inherently ironic.
Quoted from iloveplywood:Just keep it simple, irony is like rain on your wedding day. If you apply that standard to all possible instances of irony you should be correct most of the time.
Rain on a wedding day is bad luck, not irony.
Quoted from mstang01:Lol, I knew letting Alanis Morissette teach everyone that word would come back to bite us!
Singing a song about irony without listing any actual examples of irony is itself pretty ironic
Quoted from cooked71:That’s just sarcasm……apparently the lowest form of humour.
Agreed but it is considered verbal irony.
Quoted from nicoy3k:7k more gets you a scuba diver figure and a slow as mollases non interactive magnet n a stick!
to be fair it is interactive. You gotta time dropping the ball onto the target. Also it directly interacts with the ball which seems to be the classic definition of "interactive toy"
The scuba guys does seem dumb though. No argument there. Pure visual, and not a very exciting one off what I saw.
Quoted from nicoy3k:Are you sure? It moves very slow and the ball hovers directly above the target. Not much skill required if it does need to be “timed”
I'm not going to argue the subjectivity of it being fun or a challenge. But it does directly interact with the ball. That was my only point. Carry on
Just fyi, the url is https://www.007.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Pinball-11.jpg
I already tried a bunch of other numbers fishing, but good luck fellas
Quoted from Ballderdash:Here’s an unpopular but effective idea:
End the distributor network and sell machines factory direct from Stern. Set a limit of one game per person. Open up sales online all at once and eliminate the reservation lists. The entrenched network of back scratchers and swapping of industry favors is what perpetuates this cycle and screws the little guy/newcomer.
Stern doesn't want to provide the sort of customer support they would be required to if they were selling several thousand pinball machines directly to home consumers every year.
Also who cares about the little guys and newcomers? It's not a real issue...
It's basic supply and demand. Stern can only make so many pinball machines. There are more people buying pins now then there have been in decades. Demand far outweighs supply.
Quoted from pinmister:What if they were priced at $6500 for pro including shipping
$7200 for premium including shipping
$8995 for LE with free shipping and have them be unlimited for as long as license is held. People who want everything can get it-make everyone happy-why not?
We jumped the shark but is there any way to skip back over the dolphin the opposite direction?
What if they were $3,000 and included a bottle from Gary's personal vodka stash?
The prices aren't coming down... If you can't afford these games, Stern already makes a Home Pin model to try and fit that budget range.
Sometimes I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because James Bond clearly has 3 ramps. What is this nonsense about not counting the "split" ramp as two? Because it returns on the same habitrail? So the fuck what...
Quoted from Yoko2una:I agree that Bond has 3 ramps, but some are calling it 2.
I think it all goes back to the debate on games like Mustang and GB Pro having "one or two" ramps.
Mustang is at least a little debatable because it's a lift ramp on a lift ramp. GB Pro though? Some people...
Scariest thing about DLC is if they tie it to your insider connected account, then you basically can't resell the DLC when you sell the game (still own the DLC if you get that game again though?). At least with the DLC as a topper you can sell the topper with the extra mode on it.
The wobble rocket isn't a great visual, although I guess maybe it helps knock the ball into the targets you need?
Visually it going straight up and down, without the wobble, would look good. Have it start low and build up to full height to visually demonstrate how close to the multiball you are. Having a working gobble hole for a subway entrance would have been pretty sweet.
Regardless, I hope the countdown/lightshow/sound/shaker are all on point for when the missile multiball launches.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I think we can all agree that pros tend to have fewer issues than premiums.
Less stuff to break will do wonders for reliability
Quoted from Palmer:If the rocket started thrusting up and down like a shake weight, all of the horny pinsider boomers would go crazy.
Someone saw the building in Godzilla going up and down and complained "I can't put a square in a round hole!"
I do miss the compensation multiball for relocking one ball after a failed multiball. I love the skillshot ramp on Maverick; how you can add 1 extra ball to the base multiball or 1 extra ball into the compensation multiball with a skillful plunge
Sometimes I'm surprised the dual launcher hasn't been cost cut out of existence. But I guess Stern knows people really love pulling the plunger. And Keith Elwin has been pretty amazing at giving a lot of interesting skill plunge options. Some other games hardly use the plunger or provide interesting skill shots that make it worth the cost. (Skillshot should be a major design priority considering it's how you start every ball, and people of all skill levels can try to do them)
Quoted from soren:It is Gary Stern gospel. "A pinball machine must have a manual plunger and the three pops nest". As he has stated from time to time. His reason being that people do not understand the button plunger. And that it is core pinball. The plunge and the pop nest action. And that it hold the ball for some time giving at least some pinball action satisfaction. Was I surprised when Godzilla came along!? Still, I don't think they argue with Elwin. Not anymore.
Ugh pop bumper clusters. The least imaginative way to make a game play longer for unskilled players. At least when Keith has had them on his layouts he puts an interesting shot or two in the cluster.
I heard Gary was a big fan of the action button because it gave the user a more obvious start button than the flashing start button on the front of the cabinet. It's amusing how many people struggle with that bright glowing button...
Quoted from branlon8:Are we convinced this Bond game has 3 pops? Two are clearly visible, but I can‘t recognize what‘s under the elbow of the ramp. A flasher is visible.
sometimes Stern will use a sling instead of a pop in the cluster, example Stern Star Wars
It was definitely very early code from what I saw. Basically the main rocket multiball was functional with little fanfare programmed in yet. The jackpot text looks exactly like the jackpot text out of Stranger Things.
I don't see what the issue with the rocket being a simple to achieve main multiball is. It's like you guys haven't played pinball before... having a big central toy that starts a multiball is pinball design 101 and people love it. Too many examples on hugely popular games to count
It'll look better when the lightshows, audio, and video are programmed in. The code looked pretty bare bones. Might be for the best the game will have a few more weeks to come together before actual footage is shown
People think about how Gomez had to redo the layout when Ritchie left and how quickly he had to bang that out. Now think about how that delayed some of the work on the software side when they didn't know what the playfield would look like. This could be pretty bare bones at launch like GOTG, B66, and Stranger Things
Quoted from djsoup:The video animation of bird one eating the pinball was pretty cool, almost like it was straight out of the film. Nice touch. Noticed the game was playing the intro to Goldfinger wonder if there are other films/intros you can select/choose at the beginning of the game or if it’s random?
I was curious about the intro as well. (I thought it was From Russia with Love, but it doesn't really matter.) I was wondering why they were playing the intro clip. I wonder if it was custom and the text said something relevant to what is happening in the game?
If the game is styled after all the Connery movies, it would be fun if each of the LCD screen mimics the respective move intros for the movie/mode playing. They're all visually stylish in their own ways.
Quoted from Utesichiban:In China, the CCP pays social media monitors and bots by the post. The more propaganda they post, the more they make.
In Russia's disinformation farms, you also get bonus pay when your shitposting goes viral
I don't like Stranger Things as a game myself (I find the shots very boring), but I do think it's up there in terms of Stern slicing up footage for integration and mode ideas. In that regard, I think that same team can do well with James Bond
Quoted from Sako-TRG:Really don’t the like the slot machine animations.
The only person that plays slots is Q briefly in DAF.
Don’t like the association with pinball
I haven't seen DAF yet, but I agree I don't think slot machines and Bond go together.
It should be a short clip of playing baccarat. The sort of gambling Bond actually partakes in...
Quoted from flynnibus:2 - Everyone and their mother has known that the timeframe for the game's launch was august... so don't you think internally they knew that date a long time ago?
Yeah I'm sure Stern planned this release into their schedule years ago. And then during the project, the lead designer/project-manager quit Stern...
So then Gomez had to come in and make a new design, which delayed the software team from having a whitewood to prototype code ideas on.
Anyhow, Mike Vinikour is doing rule design too. He's shown some good ideas in other games and he worked well with Lonnie on Stranger Things.
People just getting antsy for no reason. If you're worried about the code, just wait a year and try out the game then. Stern will make this game for 3-5 years like normal...
Quoted from flynnibus:I'm sure there was some impact, but remember Richie left Stern over a year ago. The usual design cycle is about a year. The impact to the schedule was... over a year ago. And well AFTER that Stern still confirmed an August time frame for the cornerstone game (earlier this year). So I'd question that being much towards why the software is so late.
Ritchie left a year ago, but it was also several months after LZ shipped. So a lot of work, beyond a layout, was likely scrapped.
Ritchie was on a longer cycle than others. Possibly because he was often tied to notoriously difficult license holders with slow approvals processes? And if this game is going to go to town slicing and dicing footage, I can see the approvals taking a lot of extra time in the software development process which was already behind schedule from the change in leads. (and this is without getting into how Stern's resources were also trying to roll out updates to all the IC games this past year)
Like I'm not saying it's good that Stern does this. I think Stern does a disservice to themselves and I think it really hurt the sales of a game like Stranger Things. But I'm pass the point of caring too much about it because Stern has been overall pretty great about long term code support in the Spike era.
Quoted from joetechbob:Worst recent example is Rush which is a game I love, but damn that screen is hard to read.
Rush is a game I didn't enjoy much until someone went through and exampled its UI to me. Made the game a lot more enjoyable
Some games really overwhelm the player with too much info at once.
Detroit style is just pan pizza
Chicago style is casserole
New York style is floppy slices of grease
California style is a giant cracker
St Louis style is weird processed cheese
They're all different, but good (except St Louis style)
I can't wait to see all the hilarious things people hide under the window instead of the scuba divers...
1 week later
Quoted from stubborngamer:Watching old movies IS pretty rough, fight scenes are pretty much like watching the WWE.
I just started watching them in order
For the era, I think Dr No does a pretty good job all things considered. Except for green screen car chase scene. There is one legit car chase early in the movie, but there is a later Bond chase scene with the typical bad green screen effect and him needlessly turning the wheel while driving perfectly straight. Those are just too groan for me and really mess with my suspension of disbelief.
I chuckled a bit at the dragon tank car thing. A few sets were pretty flimsy looking, though I love the aesthetics of the Dr No secret lab. There's also a "night" scene which is clearly filmed during the middle of the night with a dark filter put on in post production. Also the white guy playing an Asian guy with that eye makeup...yeah...different times.
Overall though, I enjoyed it.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:I picked up on that every time I watched a new Craig movie because I had no idea what the fuck was going on. How am I supposed to remember this shit in 3 year intervals?
Really hope they abandon the “plot line” thing for the next set of movies. They work much better when each is its own story.
Surprised they dont want to make a Bond Cinematic Universe like everything else these days
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Pretty sure this predates blue screen (green screen came in for digital).
On those old movies they just rear projected on a big screen, which is why it generally looks so terrible.
I'm curious. Blue screen (chroma key) was done in the 40s-50s. But it could be projected too. The film grain difference between the background and foreground elements are pretty poor.
Quoted from flynnibus:I think its something like a spring supported pivoting/shifting mech with a kicker that can instigate movement for boosts and animation. Think afm saucer… but intended to interact with the ball itself.
Because of the number of people calling it a dildo, I amuse myself by thinking of an engineer going into a sex toy shop to research the latest in vibration technology.
The unsexy answer is it's probably just on a spring and a solenoid will smack it for extra random movement.
Quoted from docquest:Funny thing is a lot of the fights scenes and car chases in the Connery era Bond's would be sped up to look more exciting.
Or they slow down things like stunt falls to make them seem like they're falling a lot farther than they are
Both tricks are still pretty common
Quoted from Sako-TRG:The poster shows Bond with a Walther LP53.
Thats an air pistol...lol
The walther PPK doesn't have a long barrel and its designed to be concealed which is why it's the allocated firearm.
Funny how the air pistol features on the following movie posters:
From Russia With Love
- Goldfinger
- Thunderball
- You Only Live Twice
This reminds me of a storytelling issue I had with Dr No
Early on when Bond meets M, M gives him a lot of shit for using his preferred pistol vs the standard issue one. This scene takes a few moments. There is conflict with an uneasey resolve. This is textbook "Checkov's Gun" and it's even about a gun! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov%27s_gun (which ironically cites Bond gadgets as an example)
There could have been a scene of his standard issue jamming, missing an important shot with this different gun, or causing some other issue to make the audience go "yeah, don't tell Bond what to do...he's the best!". Or maybe he gets his standard issue gun removed, but he had his favorite smaller gun hidden.
Nope.... Doesn't come up again in the rest of the movie. Wtf?
Quoted from rennervision:This scene is based on a moment in the Dr. No novel where M forced Bond to switch pistols. (The book was actually referencing an incident at the end of the previous novel From Russia with Love, but that's lost on the viewer of course since the movies were shot out of order and that previous scene never appears in any of the movies.) In reality, Ian Fleming wrote this moment after receiving a fan letter from an Army Major stating that the Beretta was actually a lady's gun. Fleming even ended up using the Army fan's name as Q's real name after that (Major Boothroyd).
In the novel, does the gun switch matter later in the story? Or is it flavor text trying to make some connections from the previous novel?
Just an odd scene to include in the Dr No movie. It sorta establishes M as no nonsense, but there are maybe better ways to write a scene like that. But your explanation at least provides some context of why that scene is there.
Quoted from Scotty_K:I think as it relates to Dr. No, if you recall in the fight scene in the restaurant in Jamaica, Felix Leiter disarms Bond, seeing that he is carrying the Walther, thus identifying him as Bond; Leiter is also carrying a Walther. Also, I think it was a "thank you" nod to the real Major Boothroyd, which now immortalized it in film as well as literature.
In the earlier novel, I think it was there merely to correct the error that Fleming made by originally having Bond using a Barretta, and also thanking Boothroyd.
The Walther giving away Bond's identity would have worked a lot better if the person who noticed it wasn't also an ally of Bond. But I'm armchair quarterbacking a 60 year old movie...
I still enjoyed Dr No more than I thought I would have going in. I am positive overall on it. Going to try to get From Russia with Love done tonight. I started it the other night but lost my focus. I want to try to pay attention and not be distracted by phone every few minutes...
So I watched From Russia with Love last night. Loved it. It really blows Dr No out of the water lol.
Dr No set the template with a budget maybe a bit too low for its ambitions. From Russia with Love had some great action set pieces and really ramped up the violence and sexy women angle. The story is a bit more simple, but works wonderfully.
I'm also curious about some of the tone and whether or not I'm supposed to be lol'ing at some stuff the way I am. I found the SPECTRE training area to be hilariously ridiculous
Quoted from Scotty_K:The thing that I find interesting about watching Dr. No is that Bond is presented differently than in any of the other films that followed it. He relies much more on his own skills of spy craft, rather than any fancy gadgets, and in my mind, shows him to be more creative. Placing a strand of hair between the two closet doors of his hotel room, sprinkling powder on the latches of his briefcase, having a sealed back-up bottle of vodka, and so forth. The gadgets began to get added in From Russia with Love (briefcase with concealed knife and gold coins), and they seemed to get more outrageous as the movies went on. Not that that's a bad thing, mind you, but I just seem to like that in Dr. No it just him.
I totally agree with you on your assessment; it's my favorite, too, although Goldfinger runs pretty close. That fricken' laser between the legs scene and the accompanying dialogue is classic!
I agree with you. In Dr No, Bond reminded me more of a detective than borderline superhero-like agent, such as the Pierce Brosnan Bonds I grew up with.
Also while watching From Russia with Love, I started to wonder if Robert Shaw's likeness would be used in this game (or the Elwin).
My loose understanding is Robert Shaw's estate was at one point very controlling of his likeness when it came to Jaws merchandise...
Later edit: Shaws character is an insert on the game. There’s hope for Jaws!
Continuing my Connery thon
Goldfinger was great. The overall quality of production/budget increase from Dr No to Russia to Goldfinger continues.
I think Dr No set a lot of the style of the movie franchise. From Russia with Love refined the template. Goldfinger executes on all the lessons learned.
The acting and characters of Goldfinger is the high so far, though I think I prefer the story of From Russia with Love. If I had to recommend just one Connery Bond so far, it’s Goldfinger. But I had more fun with Russia.
I also hope there is some sort of Goldfinger mode that uses all the footage of the soldiers being gassed. Watching all those different scenes of extras “falling” asleep is hilarious. I also had a giant lol at the Odd Job hat throw at the statue. I knew the hat was a thing, but seeing something so stupid taken so seriously broke my brain for a second.
I started Thunderball but turned it off after 30 minutes. I’ll try again this weekend. It was a bit of a slow start coming in off Goldfinger.
Speaking of German boys, I had no idea Goldfinger’s character was dubbed the whole time. Really great job. I didn’t notice while watching, while also enjoying that particular accent and cadence.
As someone who hasn’t seen them till now, I think how dated the Connery Bonds are is part of their charm.
I like the UHD conversion, although there are a handful of scenes that I guess they didn’t have original film stock to scan or there’s only so much they can do because of how it was filmed. The laser scene in Goldeneye has a few shots that look like they were filmed in 16mm and/or overexposed while the special effects artist added the laser. Thunderball’s reveal of the duplicate shooting the original person looks terrible because it’s low quality projection being filmed in the scene instead of doing it with split screen.
I dont mind the old fighting choreography. But I don’t think much of fighting choreography to begin with (I think the editor and sound design sell a fight more)
Quoted from BriannaWu:Let's not forget, the other side of this is true too. The Bond films were very progressive in their day in many ways.
You had the sexual politics. We gloss over this today, but having women able to wear bikinis and sex openly represented was fairly shocking at the time. I'm of the opinion you cannot have women's liberation without sexual liberation - so this is something I appreciate.
You had women represented as professionals in a male dominated workplace. Again, we gloss over it today but it was very unusual at the time where women were generally relegated to being secretaries and housewives. You also had Pussy Galore and Rosa Klebb who are clearly queer coded in major films. I'm not saying it was perfect representation, but it was a bold choice for the time and opened the door to better things.
I think you can't have it both ways, personally. If we're celebrating 60 years of Bond, and we should, you can note the good and the bad.
The reason I love watching all the Bond films in order is you get to see 60 years of world history in front of you. The geopolitics. The technology. The ways they treat women. Not all of it is good, but all of it is interesting.
Klebb I agree. I'm interested in your thoughts on Pussy Galore (I can sorta see it?), but I know how well that would conversation would be received here...
Hell, people are complaining about people posting their thoughts after seeing these movies for the first-time/first-time--in-a-long-time. It's not like we have anything else to talk about for another week...
Quoted from BriannaWu:Oh boy, it's a whole discussion. But, basically she's explicitly a "violet-eyed lesbian" in the Ian Fleming novel and Bond "cures" her. They hint to it in Goldfinger with "You can forget the charm, I'm immune" but they wouldn't go any further.
Like I said, certainly not a choice we would make today - but progressive for the time. And it opened the door for better things.
Yeah reading the wiki on her, it's intentional in the novel but very subtle in the movie. Which adds a lot more complexity to the sexual dynamics of Bond forcing himself onto a presumably gay woman, and then her relenting, and being "into it" afterwords. That older mentality that a lesbian just needs one good encounter with a man... A lot to unpack there.
Quoted from Ballderdash:Graphic depictions of:
*Deviant sex and old social norms = intolerable
*Violence and murder = totally fine
?
I'm trying to find a video of it, but in The Onion Movie there is a memorable sketch of couples getting together for a game night. Someone assumes it will be a murder-mystery party, but then the host reveals it's a rape-investigation-mystery game. One person gets very uncomfortable while everyone else gets excited to play. Someone confused at their apprehension says something tongue in cheek along the lines of "well you have no issue playing the pretend murder game, so what's wrong with pretending a lesser crime where no one dies?"
Quoted from Ballderdash:Sharing an opinion is different than cancel culture. One challenges another’s belief system while the other wants to rewrite history.
But no one is talking about "canceling" anything?
Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:My point was sure things in the movies are inappropriate. it is all around us. I watched the Connery bond movies as a child and thought hum that was odd. But you know what I watched 100 of movies with scenes that made me feel uncomfortable. so hence the scene was apparent and was right in front of you. It was inappropriate. we moved on. I do not need to be told in a pinball hype thread it was cringe. yes I saw that as a child. So what then??? What do you want to do about it. Celebrate the pin be excited for the pin or just cancel it...
Bruh, what are you fucking tripping about with this canceling nonsense?
We're talking about the movies that the pin is based on, largely in part because there's nothing else to say about the pin right now. No one is upset but some of the people who are annoyed that people are discussing the theme and its source material...
Who are the actual insecure people here...
Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:Well because I guess you the others who constantly cant take a hint... We dont want to talk about your feelings. we want to talk pinball.. read the room
Well I don't care about your feelings, and I'm discussing the theme of this pinball game...so block me, I don't care lol
Maybe lead the discussion somewhere interesting than bemoan where the conversation is at.
Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:ooooh you are so brave...
Whatever man.
Since I'm generous, here is another comment you can downvote to feel better about yourself and to validate your opinion.
Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:OK Lol I am sure everyone is on the edge of their seats on your interpretation of who is gay and blah blah blah....
Well to not keep them on the edge of their seats, I have a sneaking suspicion that Dr No was an incel
I just don't get this binary option being presented that you either have to praise something or cancel it
I don't want to cancel anything. I simply enjoy discussing the theme, which is a bunch of movies from the 60s. But some people don't want to talk about the movie... shrug
Quoted from JohnTTwo:Wasn’t there a tranny in a bond movie? I though he was in playboy looking good, he/she also did a vodka ad.
Will he be showing cleavage on this pin?
Caroline Cossey is transgender and she was an extra in For Your Eyes Only. Besides that, she was a model and advocate for changing transgender laws in Europe.
She won't be in the game because she was in a Roger Moore movie, not Connery. But maybe in the 60th anniversary edition? (Probably not - too minor of a character)
Quoted from Mr68:1994 · Quentin Tarantino
Bronze Horse for Best Film
Only a bronze horse? Scrub
Quoted from digitaldocc:Thanks. For some reason I thought it was tonight. I've been watching 1 bond film a night in chronological order. Great movies!
Agreed. Just don't talk about them /s
Quoted from 80sMan:The optical spinner and animation with the chicks for Diamonds are Forever looks fantastic. I think this is exactly what the game needs. Please don't hide the Bond girls, Stern! It's the games best assets.
https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1068616483804110
Interesting that one of the goals will be to keep it spinning, which should spin real good as an opto spinner
Quoted from 80sMan:Yes.. I fell for opto spinners With LZ. Charging up the electric magic opto spinner makes the whole game imo. I'm curious now that it's used in Bond this way for sure. Looks good.
I think the Beatles had the first one(s)?. They spin really good!
Definitely need a leader board for spinner rips. Maybe one for the number of spins from a single shot, and a timer for longest start of spin to end of spin
Quoted from J85M:You should get a bonus or something for getting 7 (007) spins.
I thought about that, but getting only 7 spins on an opto spinner? You're just barely kissing it
Maybe if you make 1,007 spins in a game? That's probably a good 30 rips within one game? That seems doable for a lot of people
I'm glad I did the Bond-a-thon because the movies were fun, and I can appreciate a lot of the details they put into integrating the movies on the LCD screen.
I wonder if the rocket could have worked as a pop bumper with a rocket sculpt on top. No jiggle jiggle, but it could still knock the ball into the targets to help out the player.
Quoted from gdonovan:Spinner sounds like Quicksilver.
Gomez mentioned he stole it from the Elwin Bond game which will have multiple sound packages, including an 80s inspired one
Quoted from PanzerKraken:The jetpack seems kinda stupid, kinda wouldn't mind a pro cause of that
TBH this seems like one of the easier Pro > Premium choices
Bond on a Wand = neat gimmick that will probably get old after a few times (or a gimmick used infrequently enough that you don't miss it)
Scuba Bond = cosmetic with no bearing on gameplay
No physical ball lock vs virtual ball lock = no meaningful gameplay difference
Gomez mentioned the pro center loop shot actually feels better because it doesn't have the diverter like the premium.
So really it's just how much money do you have and do you have strong opinions on the yellow Dr No artwork
Quoted from Ballderdash:I’m between those and JP added to the decision.
Buy GZ/JP now and enjoy for a year. And by next Fall this game may actually be at 1.0 code..
Quoted from Palmer:I really like what I saw with the layout! Code is early but I trust that it will be great in the end based off of what MXV was explaining on camera. Speaking of which... is Lonnie still the lead programmer? I did not see him on the stream. Mike Vinikour and Waison Cheng were present.
Seems like Lonnie is lead programmer with Mike doing a lot of the game and mode design. But I'm sure they'll quickly tell you it's all a very collaborative team based effort and all that. It's not the days of only a few people working on these games. There are a lot of support programmers
Quoted from kool1:That's actually not bad advice. GZ and JP are very complete games.
Should be lots of both these games available in 2023.
Quoted from Ballderdash:Solid advice.
Yeah unless you want to buy LEs...just wait. There's only upside, no downside (besides maybe having to pay a few hundred more for the yearly price increase).
Quoted from Haymaker:gomez even mentioned in the insider podcast that there was no real gameplay differences between the pro and premium. The extra features in the premium have a bit of wow factor, no doubt, but I am willing to bet as a players game the pro is the way to go, especially at the price difference.
Probably had to do with the compressed development cycle. No time to engineer more interesting mechs like the Godzilla building or bridge. It's almost all cosmetic stuff, besides Bond on a Wand which is relatively simple as far as mechs go. (It reminds me a lot of the Batman crane, but reused as a diverter instead of a bash toy)
Quoted from PanzerKraken:At launch perhaps, but once they put in the Jetpack control stuff then sure its gonna be a bit different.
Here's my idea: the super jackpot phase of jetpack multiball will be shoot the ball to the ramp to the wand, then time releasing the ball on the dragon tank while juggling your other balls in MB. Maybe borrow the T2 idea and lock balls in the left scoop and right VUK to get a 2x or 3x super jackpot
Speaking of spinners, I had one other dumb idea for a side objective in the game. Get the opto spinner spinning for at least 007 consecutive seconds.
Also another thought. 007 combo. You can string together a unique 7x combo in a few ways on the layout
Example
1 Shoot the right orbit to feed the upper flipper
2 Shoot the Bond girl inner orbit and refeed upper flipper
3 Shoot the side ramp and feed right flipper
4 Shoot the orbit/ramp that returns to the left flipper
5 Shoot the right ramp to return to the right flipper
6 Shoot the center shot and live catch the return on the left lower flipper
7 shoot the VUK to complete a 007 way combo
Quoted from PinMonk:It's much closer to Rescue 911, but with a much thicker, uglier wand for some reason.
I meant more that it's probably the same motor and gearbox design as Batman 66's crane
The rocket reminds me a lot of the upper left corner of Star Gazer, but it's a pop circled by stand up targets. It even has a three bank in front of it
Quoted from JustEverett:The code stuck me as being pulled from the stranger things code a base. I noticed when they were adding players it was the same sound effect STh uses. Anyone else notice anything like that?
Lots of people noticed and they mentioned in the stream that Lonnie's process is to basically take the last game he worked on, and then rip out some old game specific stuff and start putting in the new game specific stuff. So lots of Stranger Thing place holders. Ranging from fonts to other things.
In other words if you want an idea of what some of the modes may look like...go study the Stranger Things rule sheet. You'll see some variations come back for sure. (True for a lot of his games)
Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that. There's only so many ways to structure "shoot the flashing shot" modes which are the the bread and butter of any game. It's more of a question of does it do anything interesting beyond the typical modes.
Like Godzilla tier one battles are very basic. But the further you get in the game, the more complicated the mode objectives get.
I don’t like Stranger Things very much as a game. It’s ok but not for me. But I think it does do a great job of using clips from the show. So if that’s what you want out of Bond, I think this team can easily manage that. (Licensor pending)
Quoted from iceman44:STHLE $8800
BondLE $13000
Love STH now and when people were taking a dump on it.
1000 of Bond. 500 of STH.
The numbers are a bit different today.
“In before the massive dump”?
Hey if Bond ships with early code as bad as Stranger Things, just wait for the lull when people sell it because they’re impatient and few are demanding the game that hasnt been mostly coded yet and they’re chasing the next new game
What if the Bond topper was the laser from Goldenfinger. It could point a laser light beam at the center of the playfield that slowly creeps towards your flippers and can zap your flippers like Dialed In as part of a special topper mode
I think a lot of Gomez games are long players in general. Adding that third flipper to make you shoot at some dangerous cross shots should help with long ball times.
I like shooting dangerous stuff and short game times because I rather play multiple games in a row than one long session.
Quoted from Pinballer73:Does this ramp lift to allow a shot underneath in the Premium & LE games?
[quoted image]
No
I'm all about short and brutal games, but I'm a weirdo. I won't act like that's what most people want. They want somewhat easy fan layouts that play long due to multiple ball saves, multiballs, special modes where you can't lose the ball, etc... They want a super duper ultra wizard mode that maybe 1% of people ever legitimately get to (Stern is about to find out how many people actually see those modes with all this IC data they're collecting)
And I get it too. There is a Beatles I'm looking at nearby that I want to buy, but Idk if I really want to own one in the house...even though I do really enjoy playing that game.
Quoted from Grantman:Does anyone know how the music licensing for a pinball machine works? Gomez said the music license holder wanted more money for the Goldfinger song than the entire Bond license costs (so they did not get that song). If I buy the song for personal use I can get the MP3 on Amazon for only 89 cents (and that includes Amazon's cut) so why should it be more to put it on a pinball machine (per game)?
Alternatively, why can't Stern just make a feature on new games where we can load our own songs and can swap out the default music?
Because you're buying it for personal use vs putting it on commercial coin operated equipment where a large number will end up in public
Didn't Stern let people change the music some in Mustang?
And I assume you can't add music because of licensing agreements. It's probably their demand, not Stern's unilateral decision, to disallow and discourage that sort of modification. If people can just add licensed music, then why would Stern pay to license stuff? So the licensor is against it
Quoted from atum:I don't have the timestamp, but Gomez on the reveal stream about this topic said (paraphrase) It doesn't have this song, but I am sure you all will figure it out. So he's all but said he thinks we should hijack the code to add it, even though its explicitly against the EULA. So I have to imagine there are some licensors that want things locked down more than Stern cares about having them locked down.
I took it as less about encouraging it vs acknowledging people are going to figure out how regardless
Quoted from theadicts77:You are wrong good sir, Stranger Things is fantastic. And therefore very hard to find these days.
It’s cool if you like it. Enjoy it
Sometimes I wonder if the license would be cheaper if Stern offered a model without a coin door, separate code, and a means to not make it coin-op. Star Wars Home and Jurassic Park Home licenses might have cost less? Idk. They're mostly just reusing the assets from the cornerstone.
Then again, a lot of public locations have gone to pay per time, not pay per play. So then it's a moot point because everything is on free play.
Quoted from Sako-TRG:My next pin:-
Deadpool Prem or Bond Prem.
I get unreservedly excited with the notion of owning a DP.
The thought of pulling the pin on Bond right now gives me anxiety.
Play Dead Pool for a year, sell it, and Bond should be mostly coded by then.
It's not a big deal. People didn't even notice till it was pointed out to them
Better to use the limited number of solenoid control outputs on more interesting things than a pop bumper cluster where it makes zero meaningful difference.
Quoted from Psw757:Bottom side of the rocket looks substantial for something that just wiggles a bit.
Is it confirmed there is no mechanical actuation to it?
Maybe someone could add a coil and tie it to the drop coil reset. Not the pop though, people hate that.
Quoted from paul_8788:I'm wondering what is using all the drivers. Each node board can drive 9, so 18 total. On the photo of the underside I count 15 visible coils. If the two pops share the same driver, then that should leave 4 drivers for Bond on a wand. Seems high. Will be interesting to see once they release the manual.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bond-james-bond-stern-007-hype-club/page/130?gallery&galleryp=10
Coil counting hype
Pro
Trough, auto launch, sling x2, flipper x3, vuk, saucer, drops, control gate, and pops x2 = 13
Premium
Trough, auto launch, sling x2, flipper x3, vuk, saucer, drops, control gate, pops (2 controlled with one output), diverter, uppost for ball lock, vuk for ball lock, uppost for Bond on a wand, motor output for Bond, magnet for wand = 18
Quoted from NewmanJerry:There's no copyright on the image and 007 logo has the trademark with it... I'm done replying about banners lol...
Because you know it’s illegal lol
Quoted from Deez:Who is on code for this game? Anyone know?
Lonnie lead programmer and MikeV support designer. Basically the Stranger Things team
They literally started with the Stranger Things codebase and started modifying it from there to Bondify-it. If you like ST modes, you'll probably like 007
Quoted from Mr68:After this price increase, incredibly botched reveal and lame follow up so far, I'm hoping that Stern might throw a bone to some of their best customers as a surprise thank you and restore some confidence.
My suggestion would be Stern quietly adding extra code to the LE machines.
(This was done only once before iirc)
Sorry Premium and Pro buyers, but this is my fantasy.
What you might get is Stern giving LE owners the chance to spend another $1k+ for a topper 
More seriously though, if the new price point is that hard of sale for some distros...maybe Stern can keep the LE price where it's at but throw in a topper or some of the other accessories like shooter rods. It's hard to lower prices, but you can add more value in other ways.
Quoted from Mrsiyufy:The Mando topper is $2000 I don’t see them going back to $1000 for a Bond topper
Yeah because it's one of their most elaborate toppers of all time. I don't think they'd charge $2k for a topper more like Stranger Things, Dead Pool, Jurassic Park, etc...
Something much more reasonable like $999
Quoted from Haymaker:lol its not even very elaborate. I'd argue its one of their least elaborate. Some molded plastic, and LCD screen, and a mirror. wowwwwzers. Topper prices ain't coming down either. If they are having zero trouble selling $2000 toppers for a mediocre (at best) game like mando, why would they ever lower the price?
I'm not saying it's full of expensive stuff (you're also not counting the special software modes).
But in the grand scheme of Spike toppers? It's one of the most elaborate. That's all.
I assume it just lights up. Maybe a little red blood effect going down the gun barrel at particular times. I don't think they'd put that many company resources into the SLE topper
I'm skeptical they'd be the same topper (but maybe) just because of the people who would consider owning both a Gomez Bond and an Elwin Bond would expect different toppers.
Then again, the JP Home game simply uses the cornerstone topper. But I doubt there are many who have both the cornerstone and home edition JP game.
Quoted from Deez:Lonnie is one of the most uninspired coders. I like stranger things but most of his other games are pretty boring to shoot. One good game doesn't offset the legacy of bad code.
Good thing it's the Stranger Things team doing Bond
Quoted from Yoko2una:So I was going to buy a Bond Pro day of my distro's announcement, until I heard it wouldn't be shipping until Q2-2023 and Lonnie was lead on code. I personally NEED to see how this now develops before I even consider it (and I love the Connery Bonds). The biggest underlying issue with Lonnie games like AS, Kiss, and GOTG all feel like the same game, and not in a good way. Before you plunge Ball 1 in any of those games you select a mode without even having to qualify it. The modes all feel uninspired - this mode has 5 red shots, this mode has 3 yellow shots, this mode has 4 blue shots... etc. Then there's a 2-ball MB, and 3-ball MB. Beat like 8 modes to get to the end.
The choice of what you have to shoot in a mode, the number of shots, and the colors lit are all grab bag. Compare that with another music pin like ACDC and each song/mode has a part of the PF tied to it (Hell's Bell, T-N-T targets, Rock and Roll Train ramp, For Those About to Rock cannon...etc.). There's actual tie-in to the theme, even where there's really not a lot of "source material" or imagery for ACDC to begin with. Meanwhile in AS/Kiss/GOTG, it's a generic pinball game with artwork over it. No code is tied into the theme and could be copied and pasted into a thousand other themes.
We get to STH and we have some improvements (more modes, more varied mystery awards...etc.), but we saw some things which reminded us this wasn't a Lyman game. The generic flat 1M jackpot in TK MB with boring screen image, imbalanced scoring at times, many modes are again random shots/colors.
Though it's a super fun shooter, many players feel like STH it's one or two steps short of something magical... which I guess is now the ceiling to expect? When we see the foundation of STH's code being used in Bond, it certainly is concerning because all the things that are supposed to be going into it will probably either A) take forever to get working correctly and will require additional/team help to get there, or B) underwhelm.
I think you have some interesting points.
I think Bond will feel more like ACDC due to how the playfield is theme integrated in a similar way. There is the Thunderball scoop area and jetpack on the premium, the Dr No pop area/dragon, the Diamonds are Forever spinner, Bird One from You Only Live Twice, etc... All the movies are represented in various areas of the playfield visually and/or mechanically.
Stranger Things is a riff on AFM with minimal theme integration on the playfield itself. The bash toy is the main theme integration, along with the TK lock on the premium. (The rest of the theme integration is the projector on the premium doing light shows, and the aftermarket upside down light effect). So yeah, the shooting the flashing light rules don't feel very integrated with the playfield. The integration is mostly on the LCD.
Stranger Things feels like it could have basically been anything. This layout looks much more tailored to the theme. So I think it has a much better jumping off point for a well integrated ruleset.
Quoted from pinmister:Another one to add to the growing slogan list...
Bond on a wand
James Dong
Bond in a pond
These names shall live on forever
It's all good-I love my Mick on a stick
Looking at these prices makes me think we're getting James Conned.
I think Gomez specifically mentioned in the stream how he thinks the center shot is easier on the pro due to no diverter
Quoted from Mr68:Fact: LE machines are panty droppers.
Counterpoint: LEs gets other's panties in a wad
I don't think they'll lower the prices of LEs, but they could add more value like including the topper. Course that means they'd have to have a topper ready to go when the game launches, which is apparently nigh impossible at Stern.
The pop thing is so dumb. Most people don't notice till it's pointed out and it makes zero fuck difference as to how it plays.
Quoted from flynnibus:That’s the issue… there has only been one size driver board to date. So add a huge board for one pop coil? Not gonna happen.
Normally they’d just drop the other thing…
They have smaller ones, like for toppers
Quoted from Yoko2una:I'd say "almost" zero fuck difference. If you have something like Super Pops and start a MB (which on this game look to dump them in the pops) you're going to miss a lot of switch hits.
What is the biggest issue here is that the Prem/LE ball lock takes 3 mechs to do one minor thing the Pro doesn't - the physical ball lock. The Jetpack also needs 3 things for it's function (up post, magnet, motor) but serves as the major upgrade toy in the game so that gets a pass.
For Bird One's physical lock, the Prem/LE has to first activate the diverter, then shoot up the VUK, then have the lock engaged. That's 3 coils for 1 stinking ball lock and must be why there's one less connection for the pops on the node board.
There's too many little things in the game - DB5 VUK, right inlane up post, underwater fight scoop, the three coils needed for physical Bird One lock, three things needed for Jetpack, 3rd flipper, spinner, pops that you realize it's a million little pieces that are adding up to one total experience.
Many Stern Prem/LE's like STH, AIQ, JP, LZ, IMDN, DP, GOTG, and SW typically have 1 major toy and maybe a secondary mech/ramp over the Pro. Bond goes with two major features over the Pro and each requires 3 freggin devices to make it work!
Long story short, and maybe unpopular opinion - Bird One physical lock is FAR too complicated for what little it does.
Both pops still have switches (maybe they're tied together, or not, Idk). And from the stream, the pop cluster didn't lack from action. So no concerns about "missing switch hits" in a pop bumper mode (which can be designed around knowing that they don't fire independently)
I'd rather have cool interesting mechs than a pop bumper cluster that's slightly more poppy
I do think for the prices it's bullshit. But playing the game? Doesn't matter.
Quoted from Black_Knight:As long as it's not the slingshots firing together I'm OK. But that's where I draw the line!
(Unless it's my dream theme, then I'll buy it anyway after claiming I won't.)
But seriously who watches the pops when they are half hidden and never send the ball to the flippers directly anyway.
Yeah tying slings together is a bigger deal to me because that action is in your face and it will affect side drains. Enclosed pop cluster? Don't care. It'll fall out of the area the same either way.
Quoted from PinMonk:Maybe it contributes to why the balls seem to stay in that area a long time? Hard to say if there are gameplay consequences with limited exposure to the game IRL.
[quoted image]
I don't think them firing together makes much of a difference
The clip does confirm they're individually switched though based on how it turns the pop light off when it's hit. Probably part of why them firing together isn't very noticeable
Quoted from iceman44:And they should. That’s why businesses and individuals are fleeing to “tax friendly” states.
No brainer right?
Stern is using a TIF program. They’re used everywhere. I think only Arizona doesn’t do them.
TIFs are super common and they didn’t even get that much money in the grand scheme of things.
I’ve used TIF money as a private developer and used TIF money in the public sector to fund infrastructure projects
The whole point is to attract investment money to blighted and neglected areas. Only way you attract investment money is by offering a good deal.
Really they’re just saving property tax dollars by showing what all else they’re investing in for the project, which will increase the value of the property, but keeps them locked in at the previous taxable rate for several years
They didn’t get any money directly, they got credit towards future property tax bills.
TIFs have issues, but let’s not make these some political debate about other taxes in general. (Also you can make both left and right based criticisms on TIFs - no one likes them except the people who benefit from them)
Quoted from KingVidiot:It’s not the lack of updates from stern that’s killing the hype.
It’s not the early code that’s killing the hype.
It’s not the leaks or the delays killing the hype.
Uhh, disagree. Put the game out so a club can start and this can finally die.
Quoted from KingVidiot:You’re right, tax discussions are ultra hype!
Is there a Bond movie where he's trying to stop glorified tax fraud? Seems like they would have gone to that well at least once.
Q could give Bond one of those clear green accountant visors that has x-ray vision, an extra sharp mechanical pencil that can inject someone with a truth serum, and a calculator with a hidden garrote to strangle the people he hasn't bored to death.
It's kinda odd that club thread is in the Stern subforum, and the Bond club thread in the club subforum was the one closed.
Quoted from ZoraShinoda:Got to try and win this 860K so I can afford a bond. LE.
The slot machine has every bond
[quoted image]
I wonder how many movie clips used in that slot machine will also be in the Elwin Bond. I bet a lot
Quoted from kettchxxii:Good to see you this weekend Mike! (and thanks for the fix it list )
Been tinkering when I have had time. Will get it mean enough to satisfy you pro players!
[quoted image]
Your achievement toppers are a good idea. Honestly Stern should sell a super cheap topper like that to operators to help drive IC adoption (hell, just give them away to Stern Army locations). It's to everyone's benefit.
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:Those toppers are from Stern and they are free, I believe. You just have to prove you are a location owner. I'd like one for my personal gameroom if anyone has extras.
Ahh cool. Hadn't seen one in the wild yet
Quoted from squaresville:I am probably just somehow ignorant, but it BLOWS MY MIND if the Premium and LE versions of Stern's latest pin have dual firing pops because of the lack of them including an additional node board. Please tell me there's some other, technical, non-miserly reason why this is a thing on $9700 and $13000 devices!
The technical reason is there is a fix limit to the number of controllable coils Stern can put in a Spike game with their standard loadout (ie two main playfield node boards)
The misery reason is...they don't want to add another baby node board for the extra transistor output. (Although someone else pointed out ways to reduce coils elsewhere by redesigning the Bird One physical lock system)
I have to assume the licensor demanded the backglass design as is and not to put 007/James Bond on it. They sneak the 007 logo and "James Bond" elsewhere
It is really dumb decision by the licensor though. But hey, when they sell the topper it at least won't repeat the game name.
Quoted from Haymaker:If you're ever at the point on a game where you need to rebuild a pop bumper, you should be rebuilding all the pop bumpers anyway. Again, a non issue
And the way the majority of games go into private collections, extremely few will be played to the point of needing a rebuild within the next 10-20 years. Hell a lot of people here probably have games that were on route and now 30+ years old with pops that still pop just fine.
I think it's valid to complain about them firing together considering the overall price of the game. But player wise and maintenance wise, not a concern.
Quoted from docquest:For the pro they have enough drivers to make them fire independently. If they have them, why not use them? The only design difference is that for the Prem/LE the switches from both pops connect to a single driver input. On the Pro, each switch goes to its own pop driver. So just a small harnessing difference between Pro and Prem/LE.
Actually.... (pushes up glasses)
The switches are still independently wired in the Premium. The game will flash the pop bumper cap of the pop the ball last touched. It's just the solenoid driver that is shared.
That's also why people don't initially notice the pops firing together. You still see them light and flash separately.
Someone is going to make a mod board to get that other pop to fire independently and make a small fortune.
Both pops are individually switched. How hard could it be?
People think way too much about layouts. It shoots fine. The layout and toys may attract you to the game at first, but you keep coming back to play the game code. If you find the game boring, it's because it's still super early code.
Software brings the hardware alive.
Modern pinball is essentially a video game with a really shitty control input (like throwing bean bags at a DDR machine). That's what the majority of home buyers want. Longish playing games with a lot of content in them.
Quoted from snaroff:All of us value different things, but I'm a sucker for interesting layouts/geometry (and tend to prefer 3 flipper games).
Keith Elwins games have energized Stern - his innovative layouts are a big reason why his games are so loved. No doubt software brings the hardware alive (as you say), but a boring layout is hard to get excited about. Both JP and GZ have really fun layouts with unique shot feel. LOTR is a good example of a standard fan layout with exceptional rules/dots/sounds and shot choreography, so it is possible to have a great game with a boring layout (but it's less common).
Like I said, toys and layout get you to try out the game. Code keeps you coming back
AIQ is a unique Keith layout. But people don't like the code, so people don't care for that game very much (I like that game, but I get why it's not for everyone)
I'm curious if the jetpack could transfer a ball to the rocket gantry wireform or not.
It doesn't seem like there are that many places that would be fun to drop the ball? I suppose it could also re divert to the pop bumper cluster everyone loves...
Quoted from PinMonk:Very similar to the helicopter in Rescue 911, though the helicopter has more action when it moves.
it also has multiple places to drop the ball vs just one main target
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