Yeah.. this one is an instant buy.. depending on the designer. I am assuming it Eddy?
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Quoted from Psw757:Could it be a mix of these movies since they were used for the slot machines?
Same licensing info
[quoted image]
That seems likely...
Let's just hope it is not based strictly off the newest movie ("No Time to Die") like another recently released pin
Quoted from Starscream:If it is only the Connery era I hope the LE is gold/brass plated gold finger edition
It’s also the 60th anniversary of the franchise this year.
I’d be fine with whatever era they choose except the most recent, they suck.
And to start even more shit, the best bond and most true to Flemings books was Dalton
100% he was the best bond
Get ready for 60 special SLE 60th anniversary editions for $20k a pop
Quoted from mbrave77:I highly doubt kaneda is right about a Totally different pin as an SLE type. Now could there be a special with different art? Sure. But different layout, toys, code, etc no way.
I think at special SLE could happen... with special art and maybe an exclusive topper
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:If only they had went with old Transformers. That would've been sweet.
I would have 1000x rather had G1 Transformers than the Micheal Bay inspired abominations.
Quoted from Damonator:Expensive yes, bad investment no. Just a stab in the dark as they rarely sell on the open market, but EHoH SLE would be $20k+ and BM66SLE $30k+.
The Franchi textured foil artwork package on BM66SLE is the best I've ever seen on a pinball game.
Yeah, it's hard to justify buying the SLE's just to play- but the only one that bombed was the Beatles Diamond (or whatever it is called) - the EHOH 40th didn't do great either, but it was more of a gimmick.
The Batman SLE has the coolest side art ever- Everything else is a distant second.
Yeah, I am interested in buying an LE. The only feedback I have gotten is that I am “on a list” but I would like to confirm a game at MSRP
Quoted from NeilMcRae:I don't think you are going to be disappointed.
Neil.
Thank you, but now if I am disappointed... I am definitely blaming you!
Quoted from mbrave77:i just want code setup like BM66 with the epsides/villians. Would be great
Don't we all! BM66 might be the best code/rules ever
Quoted from twinmice:If i recall correctly, didn't they postpone the launch of Avengers for the passing of Chadwick Boseman (aka Black Panther)?
yep
glad that the thread has now been drailed into a debate about the merits of the Royal Monarchy. I'll come back after a couple hundred posts to see if anything new has emerged! 
Quoted from kool1:Non-pinball people have no clue. Younger people have often never seen a machine.
Yep... I was watching RichHomieQuinn when he was touring the room for the FNCS finals. These kids were playing for around $1M.
Someone had put two new Sterns in the actual gaming area, GOTG and Mandalorian. His comment, "those are pinball machines or whatever they call it"
So anyhow, remember when you say that Stern/JJP/whoever should try to attract more kids... people like Rich Homie Quinn are one of the people they are trying to attract! FWIW - he seems like a good kid - and he has mad Fortnite skills.
Quoted from o07eleven:I would say, these are PC gaming fortnite "kids" and I wouldn't really say they are in the market to buy pinball games. They also likely never touched the air hockey table either. They probably just sat on the computers and played fortnite for 12+ hours a day.
Most of the younger generation goes to arcades to play ticket redemption/gambling games anyway. But they're not thinking to themselves "I need to buy this coin pusher for home use" because like having a home slot machine, it's losing it's value when you're not winning something tangible from it.
I was at an arcade that had some pinball mixed with ticket redemption. A younger college kid came up to Attack from Mars and played a game. At the end they were looking around the coin door and I asked them if something was wrong. Their response was "Does this game give tickets?" and after I said no, they said "then what's the point?".
They should be in the market to *play* pinball. They are this generations version of Roger Sharpe and company.
Quoted from o07eleven:I'd agree they should be in the market. But if Mando and GotG won't get the kids interested in those "pinball things", then I don't know what else. But arcades are definitely moving and more successful with ticket redemption and gambling games than they are video games. "The Lost Arcade" is actually an interesting documentary that talks about the shift in arcade popularity. I'd still say video games and pinball are a bit more in the barcade type crowds now.
I feel kids are more into latest trends. You'd probably have been better doing a vault of Stranger Things with the recent season 4, throw in Kate Bush and saving Max instead of Total Isolation 2. But even then Stranger Things will be done after Halloween and something new will come up. I feel pinball gets a license and then delivers it way too late (i.e. Toy Story 4) to where it's not relevant as much anymore. So they have to cater towards the nostalgia crowd with money for home market. Thus Bond, TMNT, Rush.
That's at least my assumption. Not saying that is the facts or anything, but how I gather it.
It's kinda strange. I watch RichHomieQuinn when he plays with TG... and both of those guys would likely dominate at pinball if they played. The have absolutely lightning reflexes, fast decision making, and understand very complex rules/strategies. I'd also bet, if they gave it a sincere effort... they'd love it.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter, but the disconnect is kinda interesting.
Quoted from Damonator:Value is a subjective thing - but you are misrepresenting what was different about the BM66SLE. Here are the things that were on the SLE:
Hyper chrome embossed decals (prettiest decals I've ever seen)
Topper with bat signal projector
Custom translite (plus the Prem and LE translites)
Batmobile/bat boat/bat copter/bat cycle toys
Side blades
Metallic flake powder (speaker panel too) with pinstriping
Upgraded speaker system with LED surrounds and LED bat logos
Upgraded amps
Headphone Jack in door
Signed Adam West card
Custom callout of your first name by Adam West
Meet and greet with Adam West and private tour of Stern factory
Playfield signed by Gomez and Sheets
Left ramp is blue transluscent powder
Yeah, value is in the eye of the beholder, but the side art of the BM66 SLE is, by far, the coolest looking cabinet that I have seen. I wish I had one... but I don't!
Quoted from Damonator:I'm fine never seeing a woke or buttsex comment again.
Hear hear!
The SLE is giving me a Supreme vibe. I am definitely out for that one.
The LE at $13k…. Man, that is a tough pill to swallow
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:I wonder if the flippers will still go after this one.
Idk… I can’t think there will be a ton of margin. You can get a Godzilla for $14k ish
Quoted from Grantman:LEs won't be produced until early to mid-November according to a dealer I just talked to. Parts issues.
I guess there was no rush for the reveal
I guess part of the strategy is to help Stern make up for the loss of LE's sales from skipping a release. Ya gotta figure $1500 (the price increase) x 1000 is a cool $1.5M. The normal mark up over a premium was $1500.
So the extra $1500 basically makes them whole from the LE's they skipped.
Quoted from gdonovan:I think they are up against the ceiling as JJP found out.
Yeah.. I agree... people are backing out just based on price. It will sell, but only because of the theme and it looks like a top game. If it wasn't for both of those... this one might not move (see TS4).
Quoted from yancy:100% confirmed in the Gomez/Vinikour podcast interview, it's Lonnie with Mike on rules design, just like Stranger Things.
It means… give it a year
Quoted from sawyerfamilyaz:It seems like it must be it but if it is Gomez comment about “you heard me right it has reels” is incredibly disingenuous. No objective person would ever agree that would mean digitally recreate score reels on an LCD screen.
Yeah…. It looks like it might be it…. But the scoring reels comment..
Quoted from sawyerfamilyaz:It seems like it must be it but if it is Gomez comment about “you heard me right it has reels” is incredibly disingenuous. No objective person would ever agree that would mean digitally generated score reels on an LCD screen.
It’s missing insider connect….
Quoted from digitaldocc:Folks are saying on the elwin bond to exoect 20k.
The problem is a street level with little to no mechs or ramps in my head should be a home pin price. At least less than a pro. Then make as many as needed to meet demand for the people who support the hobby.
At least $20k.... I'd guess significantly more.
It is missing ramps, but that doesn't mean it is missing mechanics... 4 optos, 10 drop targets, a newton ball.... and it sounds like a few other things.
I bet it goes for $30k.... that puts in line with the Batman 66SLE (which is not a unique game)
Quoted from manadams:Hey why not $40K? Plenty of stupid money in this hobby, sure they can throw in some uneven speckled powdercoat like EHOH 40th
Could be... who knows... a limited run of 500 for Elwin's design. They sold 200 EHOH 40ths on a game that was still in production.
All I know is that is that it will be waaaay too rich for my blood.
Complaining about prices is a lot like complaining about taxes, but in this case no one is forcing you to buy.
As for me, I am at the point where buying a new game means so long to an old game. The higher prices mean that older games on the aftermarket, especially newer Sterns, should have increased in price at a similar pace.
What it does mean is that it sucks for the new people entering the hobby - but if you have been in it for awhile - you can buy new games, you just have to sell stuff.
Quoted from kool1:Somehow YouTube zilched it from my saved videos also.
It was made private.... meaning that whoever posted the video had to manually turn the video private.
Meaning..
Stern did not issue a DMCA request
Wasn't YouTube who did it
Also means that it wasn't deleted.
(if anyone cares)
Quoted from KingVidiot:Unmet potential? Stranger Things has some of the most robust code in all of pinball. The pro is proving itself to be excellent in tournaments. Again, I think a lot of people, yourself included, are judging the game from early code, Covid slowing down the development/player feedback, and the uv kit fiasco. Despite all of the poor early reviews and review bombing from the uv kit, it still sits at #17.
Where Stranger Things stands today, when you combine the basic fan layout + great code with killer presentation in the form of the projector and uv kit, it’s an easy argument to make that Brian, Lonnie and Mike put together one of the very best pinball machines of all time.
I’m confident, especially with George as the lead, this game will be incredible.
Also, modes, like scenes in movies, get deleted all the time because of pacing issues. Heck, LFS had all kinds of other movies and deadheads planned for Elvira HOH, but he never got around to implementing them… so is that game “unmet potential” too?
One thing I have wondered about Stranger Things... How much Eddy contributed to the code?
Quoted from cooked71:Lyman definitely set the benchmark with b66 - perfect for this style of theme. If they’re going to borrow from any code they should just cut and paste b66.
B66 - great theme…. Very mediocre layout… that is saved by probably the best code/rules ever created.
That is the one thing that worries me about Bond… Gomez did the layout for B66… and IMO it is below average for Stern LCD games. Lyman turned what could have been a pretty big cluncker into a gem.
Quoted from PinMonk:But Batman'66 is just Batman:TDK reworked (mainly remove coffee can, add batcave rotisserie, and remove teeter-totter), so it's was not really a "new" design. Bond looks like a mostly new design
It’s the turntable and the left ramp that hinders b66. I agree the right side is pretty similar- but from what I remember of TDK the left side is completely different.
I am not sure if anyone has posted this... by I'll venture my guess.
Eddy's Venom was the game the was supposed to be released, but it was pushed back behind Bond, for one or all of the reasons below
1- To tie in with the 60th anniversary - that way the new SLE could come in and make loads of $$$ despite utilizing very few supply-chain parts
2- Because they knew they could push a huge price increase through on the Bond LE.... I guess they knew interest in Venom was less... so selling 1000LEs at the new price would be more challenging. Now that the price is established, they can *hold* the price for Venom, and people will be more accepting.
Sooo.... I think that is why they are so far behind on Bond... but I bet when Venom is released, it will be much, much closer to completion than what is typical.
No insider info.... but from a business stand point... #1 lines up with the MO while #2 is a pretty standard business practice.
Quoted from astro_judge:I think portions of these scheduling theories are likely, but how does that explain the separate Elwin Bond game? Did Stern really push TWO games up in the release schedule even though it's a single theme? If they didn't plan for the 60th anniversary ahead of time and needed to scramble, they seriously dropped the ball.
I think the 60th anniversary game was a money grab to help offset the reduced number of games produced this year. I am assuming it will have enormous margins and each game sold will count for 2 or 3 of a standard game. That way they can capture the profit dollars while pulling as few parts as possible out of the supply chain. I think they did it last with the 40th EHOH game - but this one will even be a larger grab.
It also helps explain why they have held up the release.
I think the decision was made when they announced they were going to reduce the number of cornerstones games released this year…. So they have been working on it for 7-9 months
Quoted from kool1:If Stern thinks there is demand for an Elwin 60'th anniversary Bond pin then they should make one. They would be nuts not to maximize the profit from this license which I'm sure was not cheap.
Is that a money grab? I guess it is if you define maximizing profit as a money grab but.. every company I know would do the same. That's what business and free enterprise is all about.
I am not being critical. I agree with you. I just think it might explain why the code is behind and why the rollout has been slower than expected.
I say "Money grab" but it is really just a way for them to maximize profits. At the end of the day, that is the purpose of every for-profit business.
Quoted from flynnibus:Dunno man... the development costs for a game are still pretty high and don't scale down the same as your COGs for the game itself. When you put a limit on the volume of the product you dramatically reduce the ability to amortize the cost of the development over the run. So your margin per game is worse, and the upside you have from sales profits is finite. Then there is the lost opportunity cost from running these games vs other games.
I think they'd be better off just running games that have already paid for themselves and have parts that you can readily source.
The programming is a sunk cost. If they already had programmers lined up for new games - they were already paying them. The game has no ramps- so they eliminated the need for some of the fixturing.
Cabinets and playfields are similar to other builds. The art looks like it was provided and isn’t overly unique. A lot of they do has a level of commonality from a parts standpoint. The drop targets are might be unique- but without ramps a lot of the stuff will be off the shelf.
I think the attraction is that they can charge a huge amount without tying up capacity. The profitability might be tied up in accounting practices and how they assign contribution margin and if they amortize across specific games or across product lines (pro vs premium vs le)
Having said that - you make a good point.
Quoted from Mr68:I understand it but I'm slightly amused by the term "Money Grab" ....for a luxury item, sold by a for-profit company.
Touché
Quoted from PinMonk:This is all I have - from a presentation at one of the shows. You can see the Whitewater-style whoop-de-do ramp on the left that's straight now, the ramp that goes behind the mansion (with a diverter that selects right or left ramp destination) that's missing in the final game, the physical wheel of fate at the left outlane that's just on the screen now (no physical wheel), the inline drop targets at the mansion (now just 1), and whatever's happening behind the flippers I don't understand. All of the Stern cuts (possibly after Nordman left for Deeproot, not sure about the timing) are a big BOOO from me. Made the pin much less Nordman-like.
[quoted image]
The mechanical wheel would have been cool. I am not sure the diverted in the left ramp was necessary.
1 month later
Quoted from Gexchange:Deposits on LE's have been non cancelable for 3 years now. Because to many flippers were buying 2-5 of them all across the country and then if they dont blow up and they can make a profit they cancel the order days before they ship and we get stuck with them. - If you commit to a game, why should we get stuck with it? We don't hold your money it goes to Stern, lets say 20 people cancel there games you do the math. That's 40k In Deposits, plus we still have to take those games from Stern, so now we have gotten stuck with 250k in inventory that we have been telling customers for weeks sorry we are sold out on.
The other Problem we are having with cancelations is when we refund a deposit, credit card companies do not refund that fee to us. Lets take 3% of of 2k.. thats 60 bucks. Then lets look at 200 orders a year that cancel... thats 12k in a sunk cost. Other dealers and distributors have gone to no refunds allowed on Pros and Premiums as well... or refunds are charged a 3% fee. Guys these are real numbers I'm sharing with you. not made up.
The Transfer fee.. This was also done to help prevent flipping.. we had a Mando LE change hands 5 times before it shipped. That's time for my staff, to change orders, change spreadsheets, send conformation emails, move money from customer account to customer account ect. We have been playing with that number to find the right number to help slow down the flipping because its not healthy for pinball..
All of these policy's are on the page that everyone sees when they place there deposit.. this is not new information or a surprise.
JJ
Makes sense to me
Quoted from mstang01:Living paycheck to paycheck doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t make a lot of money… different levels of poverty is how one friend described it. It could be the 10k toys causing them to live paycheck to paycheck
Remember in 1998 when the NBA was on lockout? Patrick Ewing's infamous quote, "We might make a lot of money but, we also spend a lot of money." that he used to explain why NBA players were hurting for cash? At the time Ewing was making $18M/year
Quoted from Grantman:I would not use professional athletes, half of whom go bankrupt, as role models for personal finance. Yes, people can spend their money on frivolities and still live paycheck to paycheck, but it's a pretty irresponsible way to live.
I was saying the opposite- even someone making $18m/year can live paycheck to paycheck.
Professional athletes have a high bankruptcy rate, but it’s common for lots of rich folks to live paycheck to paycheck.
Don’t believe me… look back at all of the foreclosures in 08 and 09… lots of rich folks lost everything… fast.
Quoted from Utesichiban:Yep. One glaring item that could of and still could be done is using different video/series assets for a 2nd or 3rd TK multiball. Instead, it is just rinse and repeat if you achieve multiple TK multiballs in the same game.
It wouldn't have taken much to use another scene from the series the 2nd time. Lyman coded three different multiballs you can achieve with the same ball lock on EHOH.
That’s an unfair comparison! LOL!
EHOH and BM66 are my two favorite coded games.
BM66 is especially great - it takes a below average playfield design and turns it into a great game.
Quoted from iceman44:Gomez said the "new pricing" is set for new titles going forward as well. How are they going to sell 1,000 LE's at $13k of Venom? Or most other titles. They aren't.
Reduce the quantity in the future? I think they will have to reduce both price and quantity. What goes up can and will come down as more people get turned off.
BTTF? That appears to be another grand slam theme.
These guys are going to have to be flexible in the future.
Some people keep saying that 500 of a Bond, single level game, at $17k-$20k is a small number. It's NOT. . They are about to find out.
Yeah, the issue is that when you increase the price you really can't go back without sacrificing margin or BOM. Companies avoid reducing margins like the plague. Also, reducing the number of LE's lowers the overall contribution margin of the game a whole.... so... guess what would be sacrificed?
Quoted from iceman44:They somehow made it and prospered up to this point. Prior to the significant price and quantity increases. Without really improving the product measurably. In JJP's case, some argue that they went backwards in "BOM".
You can always do it... to a point. I think JJP found their point, and I suspect Stern will in short order.
I buy LE’s because they have all of the stuff that I would add (shaker, blades, powder, speakers, and hd glass) plus they have the exclusive mirrored backglass. The fact that is “limited” is just a small bonus.
However, after Bond they will need to have more of a reason to justify the $ difference. Things like foil cabinets and other things will need to be added.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:I just paid for my LE. I'm a bond nut so I was always going to be suckered by this game.
Prices for this LE are mental, its even worse here in the UK owing to the weak pound:
007 LE is £4000 more than Godzilla LE - its complete madness.
FOUR THOUSAND POUNDS MORE
This time last year a pro was around £6700 (!) HOW THE FUCK CAN 007 have gone up by more than HALF the price of a PRO from last year? It make ZERO sense.
I'm out on LE purchases for sure, but 007 premium is the same price as Godzilla LE -> WTF?!
Powercoat, speakers and art blades are £200 so its now a total no brainer.
also waiting for the hilarity that will be the 007 SLE price. I've had a defibrillator installed in my bank managers office.
Neil.
Those price differences are insane.
I am in on a Bond LE but there is no way I’ll buy the Elwin version. I’d like to…. But at what I am guessing they will go for…. There is no way I will spend that much $
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