Quoted from Bud:Would be awesome if you could battle other people live at the same time through connect and have something similar to the N64 version of 007.
Someone needs to do N64 goldeneye audio & video mod for this game!
(Topic ID: 321756)
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anyone screen grab the toy George teased on screen? Apparently he has the game behind him on screen, and was teasing it through the green screen haha. Love that guy!
Also hinted all bond villains are in 
Quoted from Hayfarmer:Where can I find the stream?
Marcopinball
on twitch
It’s still live right now.
Quoted from pch3727:So you’ve played the pro? Go look at the first comments of Godzilla pro people said the same stuff. Now it’s a fLoW MoNsTer. Y’all need to lighten up. If they used an artist to create all new artwork you’d be complaining that they didn’t use the awesome art from the original posters.
Seriously. Some people in this thread seem giddy with negativity. This is your reminder that this is a TOY FORUM. Imagine, a forum where people discussed leaked photos of the latest Walmart coin operated horses “Bah, this artwork on the saddle is awful! It doesn’t look like it’ll rock more than 45 degrees! This isn’t the shade horses teeth should be”
This is what some of y’all sound like. Maybe wait until you see it, I dunno, POWERED ON and being played before you freak out. I know expecting some of you to actually play it before shitting on it is far too big an ask 
bUt wHeRe WiLL i pRoJeCt aLL mY uNaDreSsed nEgAtiVity?!?!?
Quoted from easye9901:I know it wouldn't happen with the era of movies in the game...
but a video mode on the LCD screen with some N64 GoldenEye gameplay/music would be sweet!
Someone absolutely needs to mod this game with the n64 music, sound effects, and game video! Haha.
Quoted from docquest:I'm guess I'm not fully woke yet. I did say henchmen even though the one from Thunderball (Fiona Volpe) is a woman/girl/female.
Of course you do. I used to too, because we both grew up in the same era, as did the rest of pinside, where male is the default preferred gender.
Example: the word “guys”. Most of us say “guys” when referring to a group of people, no matter their gender, right?
But you wouldn’t say you go around fucking “guys”, would you?
“Guys” is just one small example of literally thousands of little words, expressions and phrases where the male experience is the preferred default, and women aren’t acknowledged equally. We live in a systemically sexist culture, and a whole hell of a lot of big things and little things, like “guys” needs to change before actual equality can exist.
I always find it funny when the delicate little man flowers cry “omg woke culture is ruining little mermaid and lord of the rings!”. Dog, you’re 48. Mermaids & elves ain’t real”
It reminds me of a quote “when one is accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression”
Check your own privilege before you get big mad about adult females being upgraded from “girls” to “women”.
Quoted from Ballderdash:I bet it blows your mind to consider the entire span of Romance languages use masculine and feminine articles/qualifiers. Including defaulting to the masculine any time a group includes more than one man or is simply referred to in a plural sense. Poof!
Haha for sure, I studied French for 6 years in school. Even as a child, appointing sexual identity to inanimate objects seemed odd, unnecessary, and potentially problematic. Turns out, it is.
Can you imagine if the language legally had to be reversed tomorrow? Any mixed group referred to as a group of women? Men would be outraged that it’s sexism, and they’d be right.
When you systemically signal to half your population that they matter less, it’s a problem that needs addressing.
“Boldly go where no man has gone before” to “boldly go where no one has gone before”. Inclusive language is a good thing. We’ve been needlessly discouraging our girls and women with careless language for long enough. We’re better than that.
1 week later
So the title of this thread is “hype club”, but I’m thinking we also need a “crybaby club” for each new pin released.
so to keep things on topic, I’m “hyped” to play the premium I pre-ordered. Stranger Things is one of my favorite games of all time, and MXV had a big hand in that. George Gomez is arguably the most influential pinball designer in history, from his legendary designs, his pinball 2000 vision, insider connected, and his brilliant management at stern. Dude is a legend, and STILL saved Deadpool from a burning dumpster fire and turned it into one of the GOATs at 60+ years old.
It blows my mind that Pat Lowler and George Gomez are only like 4 years apart in age. George feels 20 years younger.
Quoted from 27dnast:Beg to differ. Pinball is far from being the ultimate luxury good.
In terms of gaming it is.
Video games recently went up from $60 to $70 for the top tier, top budget games. It was a big deal. But we're all dropping $5-$10K on average for ONE GAME.
So yeah, in terms of games? Ultimate Luxury good... unless you're one of those crazies who buys 50K puzzle boxes
1 week later
Quoted from PinMonk:It just suggests that at least some of the code and graphic assets from Stranger Things were copied to Bond as a base. Pretty lazy not to even change the font and animation, though. Made it very obvious Stranger Things code and some graphics were in Bond.
So if 60 years x 25 films is 1500 units of the 60th. Maybe they'll have Bond-specific art packages for Connery (500), Moore (500), Brosnan or Craig (500). Or, maybe Stern really does just want to make 500 high priced units and be done with it.
I don’t think you know how code works.
The person coding the rules isn’t the same person who does fonts, animation, video and other visual assets.
Starting with pre-existing code as a base is ultra common.
Quoted from digitaldocc:I'll hazard a guess that if stranger things code was used as a base all the media assets are just stored as variables in the code. It's super easy just to assign new audio and video to the variables and make a few code tweaks. Then you can rush a game out that isn't ready. Like what we saw in England.
Thinking pinmonk is onto something here.
It’s easy… as long as the assets are approved.
From what we know, which is mostly guesswork, the reason this game hasn’t been streamed has been licensor approval of assets, like audio, video, and even fonts. As someone who has worked in graphic design, some large companies are extremely particular about fonts. Seeing as how what we’ve seen is still a work in progress and not an official reveal, it’s silly to judge visual assets by leaked video. The James Bond licensors might be picky, but they won’t have anything to say about pre-release states of the game.
No, pinmonk isn’t onto anything other than judging something that isn’t finished.
Quoted from snaroff:Yep, and it's possible is system library/platform code that is shared between games intentionally.
Absolutely. Spike 2 as a platform is much more than simply their own version of a raspberry pi. Flexibility and standards in code is how they can release updates for all 16 games at once, or roll out a whole new online platform like insider connected.
Quoted from PinMonk:I have plenty of experience with commercial-level code, thanks.
The point is if that is being used in the rushed base version shown, what modes are also being repurposed like Lonnie commonly does, like the Aerosmith code he brought forward from KISS, with a known bug and all. He's the only one I can think of that is this sloppy with reused code from prior games he did.
“Rushed base version”
Bit of a loaded statement, don’t you think?
Please tell me the difference between a “rushed base version” and simply “early code with a picky licensor”, since you claim to have “plenty of experience with commercial-level code”
Quoted from PinMonk:Yeah, I've owned every Lonnie game. It's his MO. Generally speaking, sloppier, more boring code than all the other top level coders at Stern.
IMO, of course.
Totally get that, but I personally love stranger things. One of my favorites of all time. In terms of deep, stackable code combined with a solid, simple fan layout, the only reason it’s not top 10 here is because a lot of people still judge it based off it’s rough launch.
Hot take - it’s simply a better Attack From Mars.
The fact that Lonnie and MXV are teaming up again on bond is a huge selling point. Add to the fact that George Gomez always delivers, I have high hopes for this game to be a lot of fun.
Quoted from PinMonk:I'm just put out about taking things out of the game and calling it done since I had one as the development progressed toward final and was playing each changed rom. The video mode could have been awesome with shooting Demodogs like the one in Dracula, but they just deleted it from the awards and called the game done. Stranger Things is probably the best Lonnie of the LCD era, but it will always be less-than. Unmet potential.
Unmet potential? Stranger Things has some of the most robust code in all of pinball. The pro is proving itself to be excellent in tournaments. Again, I think a lot of people, yourself included, are judging the game from early code, Covid slowing down the development/player feedback, and the uv kit fiasco. Despite all of the poor early reviews and review bombing from the uv kit, it still sits at #17.
Where Stranger Things stands today, when you combine the basic fan layout + great code with killer presentation in the form of the projector and uv kit, it’s an easy argument to make that Brian, Lonnie and Mike put together one of the very best pinball machines of all time.
I’m confident, especially with George as the lead, this game will be incredible.
Also, modes, like scenes in movies, get deleted all the time because of pacing issues. Heck, LFS had all kinds of other movies and deadheads planned for Elvira HOH, but he never got around to implementing them… so is that game “unmet potential” too?
Quoted from Hayfarmer:We need to give them a chance before condemning them,,
Nah, this is clearly the “gripe” thread, didn’t you get the memo?
Grown ass adults in this thread acting exactly like the children who watched and cried about the GTA6 leaked footage.
Quoted from PinMonk:but that Shaq Attack in your collection has made me understand your criteria for "very best of all time" may be looser than most.
I’ll make you a deal - you don’t judge me for my guilty-pleasure pins, and I wont judge you for selling cheap pc fans at 5x markup 
Quoted from NC_Pin:One thing I have wondered about Stranger Things... How much Eddy contributed to the code?
That’s a good question, considering how he started with the shadow on both design and code.
I’m sure all lead designers have a significant say on code if they choose.
Quoted from snaroff:Must be a new thing at Stern...my Rush and GZ are much longer play games than I'm use to. If Bond is even longer playing than Rush/GZ, it's going to be a big bummer. I guess if you are playing it in an arcade, it's cool, however I prefer challenging games for the home.
Then I HIGHLY recommend ordering teenage mutant ninja turtles during this last run. Extremely difficult and short playing pin, despite its cartoony theme.
Quoted from zucot:It’s almost like some of you want the game to be bad.
Right? Do we need to rename this thread "The James Bond GRIPE Thread"? Do some of you not understand the meaning and purpose of a "Hype Thread"? Go start a "I got whine in my martini: The official James Bond crybaby thread" where you can all bitch and be miserable together about your inability to differentiate SALEABLE CODE and LEAKED PROTOTYPE FOOTAGE.
The almighty Lyman Fucking Sheats took almost THREE YEARS to dial in Batman 66. BM66 is an amazing game now, so let's cut this team some slack, shall we? When the game is in hand, we can start to give constructive feedback about how to improve the game.
Until then, ask yourself if the world needs any more pointless negativity in it.
Quoted from snaroff:Hearing everyone's perspective is goodness, even for a so called hype thread.
Nah, this is where I 100% disagree.
The whole kumbaya campfire idea some people have that "everyone's opinion on everything is equally valuable" is utter horseshit.
No. Not all opinions are valuable. The sooner we realize that, the better off society will be.
Bitching and crying about leaked prototype material is absolutely not "goodness". Far from it. It's useless noise that objectively diminishes the quality of this thread.
These are toys after all. I come here to relax and enjoy a hobby, not piss and moan and be cynical about something I love.
So get this thread back on topic, I'd like to find a way to disguise the metal playfield guide in the underwater scene, which is clearly visible in the promotion trailer for the Premium/LE features.
What do y'all think? Paint the metal? Frosted plastic/glass? Something like a backdrop directly behind the figurines?
At the same time, I'm thinking it actually might be more difficult to see the metal in person, seeing as how a promotional video is gonna be soaked into studio lighting, and I like to play in a dimly lit game room. Might have to wait until it's in-hand before assessing if it's worth fussing with, but something to brainstorm while anxiously waiting 
Quoted from snaroff:you've been here 1yr and somehow you think your opinions matter more than guys that likely have tons more insight than you? Give us all a break.
pinside seniority… and I’m the one taking this shit too seriously?
Some brilliant senior pinside members were bitching a few weeks back about a dead-end upper ramp shot. Turns out, the leaked photo didn’t show that ball guide properly. Yup, George Gomez musta just entirely missed that one…. Boy, those pinside years really amount to wisdom in this hobby 
Quoted from astro_judge:Not everyone comes to a forum for the same reasons. Just because the word "hype" is in the thread title doesn't mean that everyone has to be excited or even positive.
“Not everyone comes to a birthday party for the same reasons. Just because the word “party” is in the name, doesn’t mean everyone has to be excited or even positive”.
You’re right, how dare I challenge your right to have a miserable time!
Quoted from MaxIsDead:Im all cheese muffin over this game. It has a galley wag and got me all tails up for the code. I heard the loops and blips are all way up over the sausage gravey.
You say you’re from Colorado, but you sound like you’re from Newcastle
Quoted from DropGems:They’ve been skimping since ghostbusters prem (stern mech pinnacle)
Godzilla premium is Stern’s mech pinnacle. Perhaps pinball mech pinnacle.
* Collapsing building that locks balls on the roof and also acts as a diverter and bash toy
* collapsing bridge that animates and also acts as a diverter
* Captive ball / magna grab
* rotating spinner jump ramp into a magnetic mecha Godzilla bash toy
In all honesty, I think Godzilla’s mechs are more impressive and more fun than twilight zone. Like, a gumball machine and a clock and some invisible flippers just ain’t nowhere near as cool as collapsing buildings and bridges.
Quoted from docquest:I'd say Elvira House of Horrors is Sterns most mech heavy game.
Her 3D sculpted house has 4 entrances for the ball: back door via diverter, side garage behind brop taget, cellar when moving front ramp is up, front door when moving front ramp is down.
Her house also has has a 4 position rotating turret on top of it.
House has user selectable lit windows to select which movie plays next.
The crypt has 3 rotating fronts: crypt door closed, crypt door open, crypt skull to bash.
Crypt VUK shots ball across playfield via user controlled action button.
Trunk has lid that is part of ramp when closed but then lifts open to lock a ball and also a kickout on it to eject ball.
Four interactive Gargoyles that jump up to hit bottom of glass when hit by ball.
Plus the regular mechs on most games: 3 bumpers, spinner, 2 sets of 3 standup banks, action button.
If you get the topper, it's one of the few that physically moves (crypt opens and closes) compared to most which are just lights.
What other modern Stern game has 5 physical ball locks scattered across the playfield?
If like interactive mechanical toys nothing beats EHOH.
Agreed. Elvira gets overlooked because if the long, open playfield. It’s absolutely loaded with tucked away mechanisms. The house alone has a staggering amount of functionality.
Quoted from kool1:I've still never played an Elvira - never see it anywhere on location.
Someday!
You find yourself in my neck of the woods, hit me up!
Extremely glad I snagged one when I did. It’s simply a top-tier machine, in terms of theme, callouts, smooth shots, code, cabinet / playfield art, humor, music, it’s really the whole package.
I own Jurassic Park and Godzilla, and Elvira is easily in the same league. But they both have holes in them, in terms of complete overall package. Like Jurassic Park is amazing, but the music, callouts and video, and art package are all solid, not top tier. Godzilla is amazing, but it can feel overwhelming and cluttered waiting 30 seconds sometimes for all your stacked modes to finish their animations, and the callouts while funny at times, can fall flat. House of Horrors has pitch perfect pacing, an elegant rule set, and it never fails at putting a smile on my face. It’s just that right balance of campy humor and pinball irreverence. The deadheads are simply a riot. Tim Kitzrow deserves a pinball Oscar.
Honestly, I think some of y'all are trippin about the pro art. The bold yellow is actually very stunning, and it will absolutely pop out in a collection of pins, especially positioned at the end of a lineup.
Look, I'm a HUGE fan of Zombie Yeti. I think he's the best pinball artist of all time. However, I have a soft spot for that old 60s era poster art. It's just a totally different skillset / aesthetic than what Jeremy does. I absolutely LOVE the premium backglass. Such a bombastic, ridiculously loud piece of art, haha. Very bond.
The first time I ever remember this style of art really grabbing my attention was From Russia With Love for the Playstation 2. A cabinet in all red, done this style / theme would have looked spectacular!... but I get with the current political climate, it would have been a tough sell.
Quoted from PinMonk:This is all I have - from a presentation at one of the shows. You can see the Whitewater-style whoop-de-do ramp on the left that's straight now, the ramp that goes behind the mansion (with a diverter that selects right or left ramp destination) that's missing in the final game, the physical wheel of fate at the left outlane that's just on the screen now (no physical wheel), the inline drop targets at the mansion (now just 1), and whatever's happening behind the flippers I don't understand. All of the Stern cuts (possibly after Nordman left for Deeproot, not sure about the timing) are a big BOOO from me. Made the pin much less Nordman-like.
[quoted image]
I actually talked to Nordman about this at expo 2020. He was super friendly and explained the idea for the spaces under the flippers…. I wish I could remember 
I think there were supposed to be holes there to divert balls back to the trough or something.
But I’m not sad about the cut features. Like, at all. I own 5 sterns, and Elvira has had more problems than all the others combined. When it works, it’s incredible, but it does have finicky design choices. Thank god there aren’t more.
Lots of people seem to think the only reason features get cut is because “lol cheap $tern”, when in reality, unreliability and “this just isn’t as fun as I thought” shoots down more ideas than budget.
Your dream of the Elvira white wood that could-have-been, is like the monster from The Mist - better in your head than in reality.
Quoted from cooked71:It’s a ball drop:
https://fb.watch/fZI-zSRB0E/
I thought it was higher than what it looks in that video.
We should complain so they raise it, then the playfield dimples people will blow a gasket when they miss shots from 8” above the playfield. It'll be like orbiter one in the upper 3rd!
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:Do we know what bond on a wand does? Is it just a lame ball drop?
I am very close to just cancelling Bond. The hype desintegrated.
I’m pretty George Gomez said if you put a premium or le in your study, the wand will extend out of the cab and do your taxes for you.
Quoted from DropGems:Yea my homie has an EHOH with topper and it’s meched out. That and Gb Prem are stern mech beasts. GZ solid too.
I have the topper for my EHOH, and let me tell you, that thing is HEAVY. You literally feel the entire machine shake when it pops open, and then again when it drops the lid back down. Flimsy plastic "free" good-will topper, this ain't.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The LE would sell like twinkees if it was $6999!!!
Pfff I remember back in 1980 when Stern was selling Big Game LEs for $699. Sold like an individual Reese’s piece.
Quoted from transprtr4u:completely ...... just total derail from any Bond ever made !
honestly, I hated it too. Maybe it just suffers from taking itself entirely too seriously, and being painfully aware of itself. I felt nothing at the end of it, other than relief it was over.
Quoted from rennervision:I just recently watched Goldfinger again and thought it was a blast. (I might've enjoyed it more this time than the dozen or so times I had seen it before.) You can clearly see how it's used as a blueprint for most of the Bond films that follow and it seems pretty timeless to me. (Even better than a lot of action movies of today. Nothing modern comes close to John Barry's score I say.) I'm genuinely curious what makes it dated? I suppose modern movies tend to have a different editing style or color timing. But is that supposed to affect my enjoyment? In all sincerity, I would like to know what critical characteristic I'm missing here - just so long as it doesn't prevent me from appreciating the movie in the future.
The “man talk” ass slap is pretty cringey, but other than the usual overt sexism in movies from this time, it’s a damn fine film.
None of the dated effects or lighting or pacing bothers me. Quite the contrary. I love the more blatantly theatrical production of movies in the 1960s.
And the film. God, I wish more movies were shot in film today. It’s just this magical way light interacts with a physical medium that digital still can’t replicate. It’s especially apparent on older films like early Bond, where they lit up sets like the sun 
Thankfully Tarantino and Nolan are still firm believers in film.
I’m bummed there’s not a 4k box set for bond. Amazon has it to rent on 4k, but I’d rather have the physical disc. Been collecting a lot of older movies on 4k. Lawrence of Arabia, for example, still looks better than pretty much any modern movie.
Quoted from Methos:FFS - listen to hiphop nowadays and you'll find more "cringey" material in 2 minutes than all of the Bond films put together from 60 years.
Let's keep it real.
Oh I definitely agree, however, I’ll leave you with this bit of wisdom:
“That which is cringe, remains cringe, even in the face of the vastly cringier”
-Wayne Gretzky
Quoted from usandthem:If you were alive back then, you would have most likely been sexist too.
Oh absolutely. The attitude that most everyone has that they’re always the hero and never the villian is exactly how bad habits like sexism and racism continue to exist. I laugh when people say “If I was born in 1850, I wouldn’t have been racist”. Yeah, most likely you would have been, because you would have simply inherited the worldviews you were born into.
The reality is that even if you were born in 1980 as a male in North America, like I was, you will have inherited a sexist way of thinking from one or all of the following: parents, relatives, friends, relationships, coworkers, classsmates, politics, religion, pop culture, etc. we mostly don’t question the way we were herded through society as children, but as soon as you take off the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia and re-examine it as an adult, the problems become immediately obvious.
Denying this doesn’t make it go away, but nor does crying and whining about it. Admitting our own faults, holding ourselves appropriately accountable, understanding where our influences came from, and practicing forgiveness before we jump at other people is how we more forward.
At the heart of issues like ageism, sexism, homophobia, and racism is essentially preferentialism: we prefer things we understand. We prefer to work with people who look and act like us. It’s kinda this self-affirming bias we’re all guilty of to some degree.
I honestly find all of the social unrest of the last decade truly fascinating, because for the first time, we’re all connected as people, so we’re learning A LOT about each other, and very rapidly. Of course it’s going to be explosive. Any time the world changes, our preferentialism gets shaken up, and the world has been going through more rapid change in the last few years than at any other point in history.
Blah blah blah, I could go on for hours on this.
So how does all this relate to Bond?
Well, James Bond is simply a product of his time, and his time was simply more sexist and racist than it is today. So what was going on in 1962 when Dr. No was made and the blueprint for 007 was being drawn?
The civil rights act was 1964, so racism was clearly a big issue, and the fair credit act wasn’t until 1974, so many women couldn’t even open a bank account independently.
Like any laws that aim to lessen discrimination, it’s simply law. It doesn’t change how people think overnight.
Dr. No and James Bond are simply products of their time.
Like others here have said, I still love these movies and have a machine on preorder from game room guys (great experience with them btw on getting a first wave premium Godzilla last year).
We can both love a franchise like James Bond while also acknowledging dated and problematic attitudes towards gender, sexual orientation, ethnicities, etc.
Quoted from Jamesays:You did go on for hours.You buying this machine even though you know its wrong is this not hypocritical.[quoted image]
Alex, I’ll take “I didn’t read your last paragraph” for $400.
Don’t sweat it, it was a long post.
The reality of life is that literally everything we buy has some problematic tie. Most of it far worse than some silly dated bond films. Drive a car and use gas? Well, you’re contributing to all kinds of heinous stuff. Use money and banks? Well….
and so on.
You gotta pick your battles, be part of change you beleive in sometimes and be comfortable being a hypocrite sometimes, because face it, we all are. I’m cool being a little bit hypocritical buying a James Bond pin, not so much about the problematic content, but far more so about the extravagant amount of money spent, that could be invested in something like charity work or donated or whatever. Oh well, I make my peace in other ways
As Oscar Wilde said “Everything in moderation… Including moderation.”
1 week later
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:I'm pretty sure there's no shortage of ideas at Stern, even the janitor would've come up with a better idea than a wobbly rocket. But Stern are a business who want to maximize their profits (so Gary can buy more motorcycles and funky glasses). You guys are getting royally shafted. But it doesn't matter, you're all buying what they'll selling no matter what. So why go to the trouble of having a rocket that rises from the playfield in a dramatic audio and video light show, when for a fraction of the cost they can just add a $1 spring. 1000 LEs will sell either way.
390C6961-C15E-4CA0-B131-EF7EA76F527C (resized).jpegQuoted from Grantman:Does anyone know how the music licensing for a pinball machine works? Gomez said the music license holder wanted more money for the Goldfinger song than the entire Bond license costs (so they did not get that song). If I buy the song for personal use I can get the MP3 on Amazon for only 89 cents (and that includes Amazon's cut) so why should it be more to put it on a pinball machine (per game)?
Alternatively, why can't Stern just make a feature on new games where we can load our own songs and can swap out the default music?
I work in music production, so I’ll try to answer this in non-entertainment lawyer lingo.
There is a massive (ie, colossal) difference between you, the customer, buying one digital copy of a song to listen to on your phone or stereo, vs. buying the rights to sell a song. Stern are effectively selling a James Bond MGM product, as well as any other assets included, like poster art reproduction, automobile and actor likenesses, music, etc.
Think about it like buying a Starbucks coffee. You wanna buy a coffee from Starbucks, it’ll cost you $2. However, if you want to sell Starbucks coffee, now the game has changed entirely. Health code, quality standards, building code, quality / speed of service, etc.
It’s insanely complex. Likewise, it’s insanely expensive.
I’m not surprised at all by the song being more expensive than the entire 007 license. The 007 brand benefits from the pinball machine being made and sold. Stern is making a new Bond experience with the pinball machine, kinda like goldeneye for the n64. This adds to the band’s prestige and it brings in new people to the James Bond universe.
Shirley Bassy (singer of goldfinger), Columbia Records, and everyone else involved gain nothing from a pinball machine being made - the value here is 100% the music and 0% pinball. Stern isn’t doing anything that adds value to the song. The song is simply the song, whereas with clips from the movies, you don’t get the whole movie, just little pieces. Plus, Stern makes their own custom clips, loops, transitions, overlays, etc.. Stern also makes the toys and manipulates art. Again, the song is simply the song.
It also depends on the artist and the record label. Some people are simply more controlling of their brand, and will respond with “f#@k you” numbers when asked about licensing songs for video games, sports, political rallies, and pinball machines.
I’m honestly surprised and excited they got Diamonds Are Forever, You Only Live Twice, and From Russia With Love.
Especially considering Diamonds is another Shirley Bassy song, I’m assuming the issues with Goldfinger wasn’t her. This song was published by EMI, so the holdup could be there, or some bad blood between EMI and Columbia. Could be the different writers of each song and their respective control and fees. Who knows.
Then you have Tom Jones and Decca Records for “Thunderball”, and Luis Armstrong for OHMSS. It’s just a stupid complex tangle of licenses, ESPECIALLY considering some of the people in charge of this shit still want to act like Napster never happened.
I work with a lot of heavy metal record labels, and some of these records are literally financed by jazz back catalog albums, funny enough, but take forever to pay their bills, because their whole business model literally hasn’t changed in 50 years.
So yeah, you walking into Starbucks and buying a coffee is INFINITELY easier than selling Starbucks coffee.
Quoted from snaroff:Thanks for the post. Makes sense. Now that so many of these games are being used privately, in homes (vs. public places), isn't the business model closer to customers buying one digital copy of a song/movie/etc. for home use? Just seems like the licensing terms (and cost) for public use should be different than for private/home use. Most of us are buying cups of coffee, NOT selling coffee (to use your analogy).
I see you have a JP2 Premium...so do I (one of my favorite games). Tim Stiles enhanced version of the audio/video is brilliant and brings the game to life. I understand why getting all this audio/video content would have made the license more expensive for Stern, but so many of these games are being used privately and shouldn't really add much to the cost (*if* there were 2 licenses...one for private/home use and one for public/arcade use).
You as the pinball machine buyer are buying one copy, yes. But it’s also a machine designed and licensed for public use.
My post was more referring to the enormous cost that Stern has to bear for acquiring rights to include certain songs in their games. It’s literally no different than the cost of mechs and coils and the like in terms of BOM.
Also, I do have the Jurassic Park movie / sound assets mod installed. It’s really well done! Although at some point, the benefits of updated insider code will probably get me to go back to official assets. Logging in with home team is just way more convenient.
Quoted from snaroff:None of us really know the cost to acquire songs...I would bet not as much as most think.
Well, George Gomez said Goldfinger alone was more than the entire Bond license, sooo… more than most would think.
Quoted from snaroff:the machine has 2 very different usages...one public, one private. Now that private home use is more common, paying for the public license seems wrong. Since none of us know the cost of licensing, the issue might not be that big a deal. All depends on the cost, obviously. If I'm paying $100 for a public license I never use, then it's moot (no doubt).
So if I buy a machine for home use, then decide to route it, I’m expected to purchase that public license separately. That’s a whole can of worms nobody is interested in. Once you remove public use case, it doesn’t make sense to have coin mechs, software that calculates credits and earnings, insider connected data that tracks errors, trends, etc.
Pinball machines are public amusement devices. Stern already makes home pins for this exact scenario you’re talking about.
I think you might be misunderstanding where the real investment in the music is - it’s on Stern’s end. They need to fork over a considerable amount to be able to sell machines with that music. It’s less about arcade operators playing these songs in conjunction with amusement sales, and more with Stern directly making money off advertising “Goldfinger” as included value.
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:I'm a coder and I can code the shit out of this game in only a few months.
This is the most pinside thing I’ve read in a while
3 weeks later
It’s not the lack of updates from stern that’s killing the hype.
It’s not the early code that’s killing the hype.
It’s not the leaks or the delays killing the hype.
It’s all you musty ass debbie downers of pinside, turning a “James Bond pinball hype thread” into a discussion about taxes that’s killing the hype.
Quoted from TreyBo69:Uhh, disagree. Put the game out so a club can start and this can finally die.
You’re right, tax discussions are ultra hype!
Quoted from TreyBo69:Is there a Bond movie where he's trying to stop glorified tax fraud? Seems like they would have gone to that well at least once.
Q could give Bond one of those clear green accountant visors that has x-ray vision, an extra sharp mechanical pencil that can inject someone with a truth serum, and a calculator with a hidden garrote to strangle the people he hasn't bored to death.
Sounds more exciting than the last bond film to be fair.
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