Meh...

Unless you skip the show all together, it's stupid to be at a show whose sole purpose is sales and promotion.. and pretend not to sell or promote. They could do their launch at home/online and keep their show presence low-key vs hoopla in person.

It's interesting to see them centering on these Bond films which aren't really the most well known or iconic.

(ETA for clarity - I mean the cabinet packages)

Add me to the list of poo'ing on that Dr No translite.. and I'm someone who uses Bond names for all my test account and project names.

I do love the idea of so many different ball paths.. but man, the very first two photos seen and it screamed DE/Sega art direction. I really want to see this thing playing though. Translites are easily replaced.

I was referring to the cabinet art packages and the translite.

Trust me, I love Dr No... but I would never take a 50+yr old ad style as the most visible portion of my game. I'm thinking about how this game will work in the lineup trying to grab people aged 45 and younger and kids 6-12.

Not even marketing 'this is the newest pinball!' works.. they still put in quarters based on what their eyeballs draw them to.

The pinball isn't going to draw fans of the series out to play it. When it's lined up along side GOTG, Deadpool, Mandalorian, etc I fear people won't give it a try.

Playing off Bond's name or the iconic 007 would have been better than 'Dr No' taking up 40% of the screen and being the sole attempt at name/label recognition.

I wasn't kidding.. these are accounts in my test orgs..
Screen Shot 2022-09-13 at 2.11.04 PM.png

Connery is my favorite Bond.. the style and formula of the films like Thunderball are immortal to me... but I still would not have gone with a translite like that.

Wow, that's some new fingerpointing by them. Upset over spy photos just 24hrs from reveal? That likely just stuffed the distributor lists even more? And didn't make noise outside of pinball circles?

Some serious butthurt going on there... or desperate excuse making.

Bleh... the leaks and whispers have been going on forever. Difference here is only the commoditization of access to the whispers. It's freaking Stern themselves who talk to all their buddies and strategically leak stuff anyway. The podcaster doofus has nothing to do with the rise or fall of this stuff. He's been manipulated by these folks for their benefit even.

I can understand if the licensor had feathers ruffled and they have to do damage control in some way... but sure still sounds like a goofy PR move. Best way to squash undesirable info is to steamroll it with a wave of desirable information. As Levi said, once the onslaught of 'good' details and info is available, the leak stuff is always forgotten. It's not like it's early prototypes, etc.

I could understand more if it's promotion by people NOT STERN that is actually the real conflict. Trying to do a media push from those companies during this period.. that to me is far more convincing.

I mean, lets be real.. one week isn't enough time to actually change anything and have it be included in all the media that has already been staged. Video shoots, etc. So I don't believe there is much weight to delays being tied to needing to react to something.

The show floor BEFORE THE SHOW OPENS is supposed to be secure and people are not supposed to leak out information. It's obviously a topic that is tough to manage given the environment, but it should not in anyway be considered a voluntary reveal.

I mean we see in the photos the person is wearing a hi-viz vest. But we also see people working on the games, so whomever Stern had onsite to setup the games could have been more assertive about keeping the games from being photographed to that detail.

Now Confirmed.. the queen's preview of Stern's Bond killed her.

No, the opposite. This is not something unique to Stern or pinball... but every trade show. It's limited access and people are not supposed to disclose what is seen. It's hundreds of companies and thousands of people, so it's not like each person sits down and signs a NDA each.. but it's part of your agreement with the show as being a vendor/etc. And as an attendee at the show, you regulate yourself because you don't want the same thing done to you.

Everyone looks around, everyone takes notice in what's in booths, but you don't go and post online about it.

well... depending on your expectation of press exposure, it could very much be a thing. Big topic to compete with and tone conflict... but I think a lot of it has to do with where you are in the world. Most of us in the states don't see it as a big sink... so we assume Stern is the same.. but what about the other parties involved? That I can understand and them wanting a more open field to play in.

I don't buy one bit about it being 'respect' - If anything it would be rooted in just good PR management.

You can see the photos were taken during setup of the games (there is still foam and a level on the PF ).

You normally don't need to create separate stealth booths to hide stuff unless you are being super paranoid.. you just cover it up when you are done because it's not hard to keep people away while you are standing there. But here we have photos taken during that setup period. For all we know, this could have been someone besides Stern setting up the game (distributor/vendor) and they simply didn't keep people away as Stern might have intended... or even people within their own group sharing the photos.

Common Example: Distributor handles receiving and setup.. Stern folks just roll in to confirm things and man the booth.

TLDR - Maybe those involved simply weren't as diligent on privacy as Stern was expecting them to be...

'be with' - yes.. Move and setup large bulky items? Hello Mr Union!

In many towns we aren't allowed to pickup anything over a certain weight limit. That all has to be union folks. Doesn't matter if it's a simple piece of furniture, or a 300k core router.

My guess is it was the distributor who was doing the unboxing.

Guess they didn't get the memo!

Stern is at a tradeshow in the UK... unless there is some huge party/event none of us know about this line of thinking makes no sense.

The tradeshow is still going on - so that's not cancelled
Stern's launches are an online thing - so in the UK or whatever doesn't matter

Union shop rules.

If your venue is a union shop, you play by their rules.. which for this discussion basically mean "Union work can only be done by union workers". Moving freight, installing stuff, electrical, etc are all unionized.

The common jokes are like you can't stand on a ladder, you can't move that box, you can't plug that in, etc etc.

I've never ran a tradeshow in the UK, but given the strong labor laws there, I'm sure there are parallels.

No - the game legit sucked at that point

Wasn’t till lyman reworked the software and premiums were widespread that people could forget the dumpster fire that was the initial launch and pro look

Acdc was another game saved by lyman code evolution. It was just a lot faster to mature than other horses in that stable.

The story is still the same…, a great game can overcome bad art. Take your pick of recent examples…. Tron, got, acdc, etc

Doesn’t make the art any better

Yes, the new rule should be no posts until you have your game in hand.

Make it so.

/s

2022’s new definition of ‘drop target’

From the jet pack

Ac/dc would like a word with you…
Transformers too…
And xmen…
And avengers

Stern never discounts title to title based on what's actually in the game... when a new price point is set.. it's set.

Well you know where to plan your visit to dulles then

How do they put that big side armor on a LE and NOT custom cut it?

Feature left out for the SLE?

But then you don't have the marketing story that "the game sold out in a minute"...
.. you don't have the option to market the buying opportunity for your Insider Program...
.. you don't have a URL/page to include in all your launch campaign to point to that when people open they see 'sold out' and feed the FOMO

People with their panties in a bunch over the direct sales allotment need to chill the F out. It's a token effort done primarily for marketing reasons - it's not changing the way 99% of people buy their games. Just get over it and focus on finding a distributor you can work with.

totally depends on the dealer and your state. But in general.. consider those tax free days numbered.

Its meant to rattle. Those are standup targets all around the rocket loop. The rocket rattles to try to make the targets.

Think like the crane in junkyard

No - stainless steel GANTRY- aka the tower with the vuk, rails and lock.

The pro just has a decoration plastic

They are not talking about the rocket (even tho the photo is centered on the rocket itself)

Eta- see you saw this in later posts…

Gantry is the tower building- thats what ghe matrix and flyer are referring to.

The exact same things were said when nib pins were 3x00 and people line Jack G said ‘bullshit’ and set out to show there was such a customer base out there willing to pay so much more.

Now here we are where jack has more than doubled his initial WAG on what an utopian pin could sell for.

The impending rocket launch is so typical bond/spy flick though. Still an easy hit.

Yes, you can see all the targets around it... it's a mix master, potc tortogua, etc kind of setup. You put the ball up there and try to get action.

The correct answer is "I am Gary Stern!"

Thing is... it's a tool that is only as dangerous as Stern makes it. So you'll always have the 'what ifs...' until Stern actually does it.

Considering the horrid experience Stern has built to date with it being free, I don't really doubt it will take Stern charging to actually invest enough to make it what it should be. It's just a question of what path they take...

Just look at pinballnews's facebook post - this is not some big mystery.

Screen Shot 2022-09-27 at 12.56.34 PM (resized).png

They posted a video, obviously someone asked them to take it down, so they did. Probably a simple request to ask them to wait until the game is updated because he already said he hopes to get new video soon.

This is dead simple... Stern just asking to not have their ugly side shown by Martin.

1 - his pattern of results speaks for itself
2 - Everyone and their mother has known that the timeframe for the game's launch was august... so don't you think internally they knew that date a long time ago? The pressure of a deadline isn't something unique here and the reveal is even later than initially planned, not early.

Sure the problem could have been assets coming in late or other late changes to the game - but the track record isn't great.

Are you high?

I said the release is even later.. meaning they had more time than originally planned.

Is it your default position to attack people when responding to the examples they gave?

Srsly? You need the crayola version? Yes, his track record of projects speak for themselves (the conversation was replying to someone trying to counter criticism of his games). You really should try reading the stuff in the quote box ALONG with the post. You might follow along better.

I'm sure there was some impact, but remember Richie left Stern over a year ago. The usual design cycle is about a year. The impact to the schedule was... over a year ago. And well AFTER that Stern still confirmed an August time frame for the cornerstone game (earlier this year). So I'd question that being much towards why the software is so late.

Don't start what you can't finish.

You come at people, they aren't obligated to kiss your butt.

Even if all that goes as you postulated... All of that would have been known over a year ago. Meaning you have plenty of time to adapt your plan to make your target. No one is springing last minute deadlines on the project... and in fact most of the stuff you outline would been known long ago meaning MORE time to adapt and overcome.

Maybe their last minute code update is night and day different... but I'm not holding my breath. This project is months behind schedule and the software seems immature still.

Both deadpool and stranger things were pretty forgetable to me due to their code. It's really taken a lot of time to get them to redemption.

We already have a Pro and Premium on the way... so it better earn its keep.

Why do you keep saying this? We know its a timed/controlled drop effect

Stern runs a batch for locations. Distros have their ops they have on the early run list. If that audience doesn’t buy out the inventory the distros sell the early pros to their normal non-op customers. So its just a question of the run selling out to the short list. We usually see a few of the run goto non ops… but small numbers

Edit: (redundant post now )

Yhe point being referenced here is the team in question have been known not just to reuse common libraries but to literally have started from a previous build and just hack at it because all the prior games assets (game specific) are still in the build at freaking GA.

That’s not reuse - that is fork and hack.

lots of EBs to be had... a player awarded ball save... no real unsafe ball returns/feeds except the time-machine dead-end. It's one of those games that can be brutal, but if you are in a groove it will be a long game.

Modern sterns have such gracious ball-saves during nearly any time during a game it contributes to the trend in general.

Hate to break it to you… but there is a lot more than approvals keeping these things from being revealed.

They are making these huge disclaimers because it’s not there yet

Major villain modes were there… mb… and the bat mobile mode was too iirc. It actually filled the screen too

No, blowing deadlines and still taking people’s money and still having a reveal with a game in such bad state is ridiculous.

Stern got mounds of hell for it in the past and rightfully so. So when they regress and do it again the scrutiny is warranted.

Dunno man... the development costs for a game are still pretty high and don't scale down the same as your COGs for the game itself. When you put a limit on the volume of the product you dramatically reduce the ability to amortize the cost of the development over the run. So your margin per game is worse, and the upside you have from sales profits is finite. Then there is the lost opportunity cost from running these games vs other games.

I think they'd be better off just running games that have already paid for themselves and have parts that you can readily source.

You can tell from the design and videos it is s powered device. Its job is to bang the ball into yhe stationary targets around it.

It is not just tie fighter on spring

because it's powered and not just moving because the ball hit it. It's animated for effects.

I think its something like a spring supported pivoting/shifting mech with a kicker that can instigate movement for boosts and animation. Think afm saucer… but intended to interact with the ball itself.

he's licensed to kill.. duh

Also, there is a subconcious difference between the 'good guy' doing something vs 'the bad guy' doing something.

Simply put... bad guy rapes someone... well he's the bad guy. Good Guy rapes someone as part of his character traits... that is where 2000s behavior inspection conflicts.

one behavior is celebrated/admired.. the other is part of why they are 'the bad guy'

They did.. the Insider Connected features were mentioned from the get go.

'Missions' could be as simple as getting achievements or getting new objectives to chase (as Achievements) from Insider Connected. Or it could simply be new deliverables via pushes from Insider Connected like awards/mini-modes whatever.

game has been live for hours in Chicago.. and no expo people posting? tsk tsk

Three words...

Add-A-Ball

‘No reason’ except the IP holder who wants to control how their property is represented and portrayed.

It suggests not a cost reduction but in fact... filling up what they normally have (two node boards) and running out of capacity.

Reduction means to take away... here if it stays true they are on the same switch circuit, it simply means they decided another switch location was more important than the pop... and too important to cost out. It makes no sense to include a large driver board for a single driver or switch... normally they would be forced to give something up to stay within the budget of two driver boards.

Will be interesting to see once the manuals post.

No, a home pin has One driver node board to drive the whole game - A Cornerstone has two plus specialty boards.

You have to fit all your switches and coils within those.

The 'cost cutting' on a Home pin is dropping the node board - They didn't do that in Bond.

Because the node boards are full with OTHER stuff that is in a premium that isn't in a pro?

Why is this hard for people to grasp? Fixed # of drivers available... pick how you use them.

Can be switches too… our grainy photo is kinda inconclusive i think.

More like a case of 'buyers remorse' and the idea of inventory tipping the balance. The games were not being dumped. The game code really pivoted in 2017 and in 2018 the code was flushed out. Catwoman games were done in the summer of 2019 as a re-run. Whenever a game is re-ran it temporarily impacts prices as the dump of new inventory impacts availability. By 2019 we are in the market where people buy the hype on everything... so tons of people buy catwoman... and in turn tons of people end up dumping catwoman because they weren't really into the title in the first place or were trying to be flippers and flopped.

BM66 basically got a 'vault'/blackarrow edition (catwoman) that took a title from 'harder to find' to having a temporary glut of NIB games available.. which lobbed off the top of the price ladder as the game was readily available. The game had already gone from 'bones' to a fully flushed out 'war and peace' starting back in 2017 and into 2018. Which is probably a good reason why they did the re-run before wrapping it up in 2019.

Now, 2+ years latter the inventory situation has settled back down again and prices increase as the game isn't readily available in NIB form.

TLDR - Reruns always lob off the top of the price escalation as the abundance of NIB-level games negates scarcity. It takes awhile for that to settle again.

AC/DC is another example whose price escalation got neutered by the reruns because of the glut of virtually new condition games that were floating around.

Sure if you skip all tbe details and just focus on an a wait it doesn’t seems so bad. But that is ignoring everything.

- Launch late (was aug)
- Launch abort
- launch event canceled in uk
- No eta after failed launch
- The mysterious 60th game that is launched but held back
- The fact that almost three months post target, the code is still WIP
- accessories??? Mia
- operators are setting launch party dates with no provided etas for games
- Christmas season? Gone

And still no one is buying the gemstone game because months later it’s still not released.

Imagine you are the guy scheduling all the procurement and staging of materials at stern so they can keep the lines primed and running smooth. Or the guy who was providing forescasts based on sales windows. You think all these false starts are smooth to them??

This isn’t just about ‘whats s month or two…’. Real money has been just tossed in the fire on this one.

Hype is simply the blitz before something happens. It's the thread all about the game before the game actually hits..

once it starts landing, an owners thread will be created for people who want to talk just about topics related to ownership and not general peanut gallery stuff.

'hype' does not infer 'only positive'...

That’s the issue… there has only been one size driver board to date. So add a huge board for one pop coil? Not gonna happen.

Normally they’d just drop the other thing…

Could be an interesting reuse… yes

Where those low or high voltage coils?

4E3E07E1-4BE3-4400-BE43-06C519476708.jpeg

Tell me you don’t know the movie without telling me.

Here you go grandpa - https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/stop-trying-to-make-fetch-happen

As soon as Stern ships it!

They ship 'em by boat.. hence why they are built first to help offset the transit delay.

Pros are supposed to be built this week... but I'm trying not to jump the gun and wait for an actual tracking #

All of the above is possible since everything was still pending licenser approvals. But who knows.. Judge the output, not the work-in-progress.

It helps if you put it in the correct subforum to start with
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/forum/clubs-members-only

You don't rename prior threads to owner threads. There is convention for this set by the owner of the forum. Owner threads can't be started until games are shipping and you can't rename an existing thread. Plus Club threads have their own subforum (and pinside doesn't have a move thread feature) so you can't start a non-club thread in the club forum and then later rename it, etc. There are a few owner threads that have been grandfathered or exceptions made, but that's the exception, not the norm.

Owner threads were started to directly steer clear of all the speculation/etc that happens PRIOR to a game or general commentary from non-owners. So repurposing an old thread doesn't meet any of those objectives and why they are created later.

It's not the switch. The ball is getting trapped in the switch cutout itself because the uppost is so close to the switch cutout. The ball sits in the cutout when the up post is up.. then doesn't have the momentum to get out of the switch cutout once the post retracts.

I only saw one VUK feed go bad.. hoping that is just power/breakin. But the whole habittrail will move quite a bit when it fires.

Unlikely since the ball is at a full stop from the uppost. I'm going to try bridging the edge of the switch cutout with some mylar so where the ball rests isn't such a trap. Slope plus wear would probably break past this issue.. it's very small. I mean just a slight tap on the cabinet will free it.

Maybe you're the type that just wants big toys to look at... but to say 'not enough to shoot for' makes me devalue your opinion entirely. the game offers a ton of shot variety and reason to go for them too. Even in this early state.

One thing that is way more obvious in person is... how empty the back corner of the game is with the dildo rocket.

All you complaining about Grogu in Mando? or the big screen in TS4? You're head will explode when you see the Pro in person from the side of the cabinet. Really stark how much area is taken up by the rocket and orbit. Looks really bare without the extra mechs of the premium.

Main reason in recent pins…

Add-a-ball and lightable ball saves

Of all the things that deserve a rant... I'd rate this on with the burden of breathing. Seriously... this is nothing to bat an eye at... complain about where the scoop fires, not the siderail. Good grief.

Yet you keep posting about it? Please don’t

And no I don’t watch

Totally unrelated man. Motors and drivers are bread and butter of pinball for the last 30years. Rush games had a manufacturing defect

They showed up afterwards for the people who scanned in.

Ours showed up pretty much right after... Stern just has to have your date right I think.

The games themselves unforuntately seem to have no awareness of it happening.

Most casual players or drop ins aren’t going to max out even the current game. The upper players will hear noise of change or even see changes in their own games.

None of those players came just for bond… thry play bond while they are there.

Bond was still a top earner for us this week+month

That maybe you… but as a whole the data doesn’t really support what you are saying.

If it really became a problem i would switch where the game was placed or simply supplement with some signage to help convey a major game update.

They just don’t hold tight vs the shipping vibrations. They are after all… thumbscrews