The argument "less to go wrong is ridiculous" as there is a number of games where the mechs are already there.

Star Trek Pro has a saucer and drop for ball locks, but they are virtual. Irks me every time I play.

Still not enough.

Do you work for Stern?

Yes I work for stern.

From the pic and video, I would be happy with the pro on this one. I'm excited to hear Connery's voice during play {please be so}

"I think he got the point."
"Shocking. Positively shocking."
"I must be dreaming." when he hears Pussy's name.
and...
"That's just as bad as listening to The Beatles without earmuffs." lol

It is Gary Stern gospel. "A pinball machine must have a manual plunger and the three pops nest". As he has stated from time to time. His reason being that people do not understand the button plunger. And that it is core pinball. The plunge and the pop nest action. And that it hold the ball for some time giving at least some pinball action satisfaction. Was I surprised when Godzilla came along!? Still, I don't think they argue with Elwin. Not anymore.

Thanks for the reminder.

Ugh pop bumper clusters. The least imaginative way to make a game play longer for unskilled players. At least when Keith has had them on his layouts he puts an interesting shot or two in the cluster.

I heard Gary was a big fan of the action button because it gave the user a more obvious start button than the flashing start button on the front of the cabinet. It's amusing how many people struggle with that bright glowing button...

You LOVE piling on cheapskates whining about pinball prices.

Have they finally broke you with their flagrant face-slapping? Are you finally feeling the sting of these personal insults Stern is hurling at the collector community?

Isn’t the game on public display today? No video yet?

The correct answer is "I am Gary Stern!"

This isn't the everyday run of the mill Stern price increase when they bump the LE's to $13k, so we can all acknowledge that i think. Secondly, the whiner brigade is just getting wound up. Let's see what happens when they drop the 60th anniversary price on everybody.

I agree with your sentiment as a Stern guy, you don't really care, nothing to see here, and i don't really care either.

"They are just trying to sell pinball machines". "If it's not for you then don't buy". That pretty much sums it up.

They raised the pro price about 200 bucks which you’d think is all anybody cares about. But you’d be wrong.

I’m not sure what is causing this historic meltdown. Is it that this latest price increase has really forced people to choose their identity, and they don’t like what they see in the mirror? People are being forced to admit to the world that they can’t live the premium lifestyle with these prices?

“I’m special. I always thought of myself as a Premium guy. But now premiums are $10k, and you are telling me I’m just an average run of the mill PRo Guy?!?! FU STERN! IM SPECIAL!!!””

Nothing wrong with being a pro guy people! You can still buy yourself an actual arcade commercial pinball machine for under $7k. Some of the best games I ever owned were lowly, pauper-aimed Pros.

it ain’t that bad!

Yep, go to insider on your browser and unregister the machine from your account with a couple of mouse clicks, then just do a factory reset on the machine or manually remove your wifi information. Easy as can be. I was skeptical at first but IC is actually really cool in addition to the wifi software install. It's not a signal of the four horseman drawing near as many people seem to be misled.

Did you remember to remove the shipping foam and cable ties?

Thing is... it's a tool that is only as dangerous as Stern makes it. So you'll always have the 'what ifs...' until Stern actually does it.

Considering the horrid experience Stern has built to date with it being free, I don't really doubt it will take Stern charging to actually invest enough to make it what it should be. It's just a question of what path they take...

.

The old "Pro's are the best value" and "Well, look at what JJP charges for an LE" (or vice versa) type arguments now need to end. These prices from both companies have gone to insanity levels. For $7k with a pro you get a couple ramps, orbits, and one or two interactive mechs. That's it, that's $1k a ramp, $1k an orbit and $2k a toy lol. I'm sorry but that's nuts and isn't something that we as customers should be proud about.

Same goes for the premiums at $10k and LE's at $13k. A flying Bond jet pack mech for $3k more, great. Again, we've reached insanity levels for NIB prices. There's no more justifying value like the "old" days, and by old days I mean just 5 years ago. By value I mean looking at a game in person and saying "Yeah, that game is worth the $10k I just spent for it". The only value left is the fun factor a game provides, there's no longer a point in basing value on features / toys at these price levels.

And profitability!

That's a weird point to make since Stern makes their biggest profits off the Premium/LE games.

Everyone should go march in their boss's office tomorrow and demand a 20% increase in salary so they can afford the new pinball pricing.

so as a person who contributes so much to Stern's bottom line, do I receive a "Free Pass" to bitch as much as I want?

This was posted on another thread.
Thought I’d share.

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You can bitch all you want!

Just keep buying please.

Are we convinced this Bond game has 3 pops? Two are clearly visible, but I can‘t recognize what‘s under the elbow of the ramp. A flasher is visible.

sometimes Stern will use a sling instead of a pop in the cluster, example Stern Star Wars

Pinball machines are a relic of the past.

Looking at the photos it amazes me they can’t just use the premium apron on the pro. These pro aprons just don’t look so great.

For the HUO buyer most of them want the full game assets. Longer lasting? The Pro is/was supposed to be more for the location operators. We all know that.

That mindset might be changing but a lot of people just don't like it. Nobody is saying the Pro is terrible. There is a wide gulf of difference now between the LE and the Pro price wise obviously.

If people are patient, and that's a hard thing to do with new pinball, you are likely to get any version you want cheaper down the road depending on how long you want to wait. Definitely on the premiums and pros now.

With the LE's at these prices? Maybe they hold up, maybe they don't. It's 1,000 games now, every single title since Godzilla and going forward. That's a shitload of games that will be available on the secondary market down the road.

$7k, $13k, or $25k?, most people outside of pinball would question our sanity for one pin that costs that much, much less a room full of them.

A Godzilla LE, the #1 rated pin, can be had for under $15k now.

A Rush LE, plenty of them consistently on the market and can be had for under $11k.

What's it gonna be like in another year or two when many more games have come out? Not higher prices on those games.

And the new Stern pricing model going forward as of January 1, 2023 is going to be the same as Bond right now?

1,000 LE games at $13k is a lot to keep swallowing.

They better have a lot of Bond like theme/Elwin games lined up!

I'm just along for the show and ride.

I basically agree with what you are saying, with the qualification that there may be 1000 LE buyers at any price if the game is great. The 60th will likely sell out at a much higher price point. I don't like the trend, the value isn't there for me personally. Maybe the 60th will change my mind, but I doubt it.

Nothing wrong with people who like to have a fully featured version of a pin either. I know you don't care that these latest significant price increases have made that unobtainable/nonsensical for many people, and it appears Stern has enough people lining up to buy so the bean counters don't care, but why crap on and make fun of people who do care?

I guess it works here too!

And Profitability!

Definitely a lot more questions being asked over here from guys who normally buy LE day one, sight unseen. They’ll definitely sell all these, but the way the USD is going at the moment, unless the next title is BTTF, there’s no chance at this price point going forward. Premium is the new LE over here.

I’m easily amused. I find phrases like “this is a slap in the face to the pinball community” to be funny.

Nobody wants to spend more money and everybody wants to be able to afford everything they want. Once you start taking it personally, it starts to become worthy of being made fun of.

Thanks for sharing. Price increases in USA on LEs is just plain nuts. 26%+ increase in Australia is just plain insane, even with exchange rate accounted for!! The dollar spread between Pro and LE is a gigantic $9,000.00. One could almost purchase 2 pros instead. Jumping the $20k shark is not wise, as many will find other hobbies. Should have been priced under $20k. The extra $500 is killing the golden goose. Looking at AMD website and they are not sold out for the first time in years.

Ok. Feels like you are being disingenuous though, or just trolling as it isn't as simple as "nobody wants to spend more money". As pointed out, this isn't the usual yearly price bump. The price difference between the Pro and Premium has widened significantly over the last few releases, which is why people are reacting to it.

Agreed, the "slap in the face" stuff is hyberbolic and unnecessary, but so are your responses.

You guys are really getting F ed Cookie. I do feel terrible for you and your Aussie crew. It's bad enough and then you get the exchange rate hit.

Do you really think so? I can see it if the game is really great because the flippers will think they can scalp a few bucks like even Bond now.

I'm trying to imagine how many more themes i'd go all in for no matter what. Bond was in my top 3.

An LE in Canada will be close to 20k as well. Before the increase I was in for an LE. I have decided I am happy with the games I have. If Bond turns out to be a great game (which I hope it does) I will purchase a lightly used premium down the road.

Can anyone imagine selling 1,000 Rush LE's at $13k today?

In CAD? You betcha!

Precisely.
Or Mando, TMNT, LZ. lol

I was in for an LE when we knew it was Bond, and hadn't even seen a photo.

Then EaglePin pointed out that there was yet another price increase, and I went from ecstatic to hugely disheartened.

I personally had a tough time even justifying to myself, some of the games I've purchased in the last couple of years, but I think this latest increase might have just pushed me out.

That's right, no, no and no.

Stern has caught a little bit of "JJP itis" if they really think going forward "Bond pricing" is gonna stick for EVERY game.

Bond is a huge theme at the right time. You wouldn't sell 500 of those games mentioned above at $13k.

Asking price for used LE games in Australia is what is insane. Check out this add below. A 50% mark up on original purchase price. This is what is killing the golden goose.

Avengers Infinity Quest LE pinball! Like NEW!!! W/Topper/ Shooter Rod
$24,500
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/coomera/collectables/avengers-infinity-quest-le-pinball-like-new-w-topper-shooter-rod/1301579771

There are a few ways to destroy demand and one of them is by raising the price too far and becoming greedy. Seems like a few collectors are greedier than the manufacturers.

Rush was being flipped at $14k, it dropped once they were available but it’s a great game and I could easily see them holding value or increasing. Mando probably did the same (I wasn’t paying attention when it went on sale) but it’s got a very strong license. Turtles and Zeppelin were both produced in smaller number but they both are currently not as high demand. I think it depends on a lot of factors but I think if they are going to price future LEs this much higher than premiums they should adjust (lower) the numbers for weaker licenses.

Yes, it would depend on the game being great. Look at what happened to MMr Royals. Otherwise there is definitely a ceiling at some point, soon I hope.

Agree no way 13k, but Rush looks and plays pretty sweet. Hope Bond does too.
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