The master. Such an incredible talent.

When I was a nipper, I would buy movie soundtrack LPs more than pop music LPs. I now use my extensive library of amazing soundtracks in my own pinball creations.

GG did mention that he has most of JBs music in the Bond game, so at the very least, the music will be epic.

You as the pinball machine buyer are buying one copy, yes. But it’s also a machine designed and licensed for public use.

My post was more referring to the enormous cost that Stern has to bear for acquiring rights to include certain songs in their games. It’s literally no different than the cost of mechs and coils and the like in terms of BOM.

Also, I do have the Jurassic Park movie / sound assets mod installed. It’s really well done! Although at some point, the benefits of updated insider code will probably get me to go back to official assets. Logging in with home team is just way more convenient.

None of us really know the cost to acquire songs...I would bet not as much as most think. Realize that Stern has a long history of micro managing the BOM (which is consistent with your analogy). Don't know if you were "around" for the Pro pegs The "upgrade" to real PF supports for Pro's occurred in 2017 after years of haggling and resistance. These supports are arguably necessary for servicing the flippers/mechs and cost Stern ~$2!

My point is simple, the machine has 2 very different usages...one public, one private. Now that private home use is more common, paying for the public license seems wrong. Since none of us know the cost of licensing, the issue might not be that big a deal. All depends on the cost, obviously. If I'm paying $100 for a public license I never use, then it's moot (no doubt).

When Gomez said the Goldfinger song costs more than all other Bond licensing combined, I gotta believe it is out of line with pinball reality, regardless of how much it actually costs.

Again, refer to David Thiel discussing licensing for games for songs and voice clips from movies. Some people are utterly unreasonable in their demands vs how the assets will be used.

Oddly enough I see this in real estate around here and don't understand the logic. People will have a commercial property sitting idle year after year after year, paying exorbitant property taxes the whole time because they refuse to take less money till the building falls in on itself.

Friend of mine had a collector store this happened, he moved out when the landlord raised the rates without fixing anything. The building sat empty for over a decade before falling down.

I actually just watched Moonraker the other night, but I wasn't a huge fan of the song

They can have it. Those songs blow. Can't imagine many people are buying the Goldfinger theme song off of Itunes these days.

I don't think many people are buying any songs from itunes these days, most are using streaming services.

I just sold my LE & I'm out.. for now. Will consider a Premium next year. I thought about this the last few days and I just can't see appreciating a Thunderball LE version of a Bond game that's branded 'Thunderball' across the sideart without including the Thunderball track.. and I just don't trust that all of the sudden next year, they'll acquire the rights to & release a Goldfinger LE version of the game with the song in it for a '3rd' version of the Bond game, lol, and I don't know what I think of that, honestly. I don't want to hear elevator versions of the songs either so I have low expectations for the 60th version and which original songs will be included in that as well. I think Stern has to seriously look at this issue a bit harder, find ways to leave things open for customization in the code at the price they are charging now too. Many of us understand that it's expensive to acquire the rights to music in Stern's traditional fashion, however, we all have Android phones, iPhone's, that are still open for user rights, customization in this area. For example, we can buy songs off Amazon or iTunes, even Autorip if buying a CD version of the album in many cases. I can still download the CD's I own onto my phone in a much better sounding lossless compression than what's offered if I buy individual tracks and it's totally legal. I can even play them with no Internet connection or cell signal required while off the grid, hiking, etc. Android and Apple still have the right to allow this in their software, hardware without worry of being sued by artists or the music industry, so I think Stern can absolutely find ways to work around this issue. IP may want control of how the license is portrayed and presented but they know ZERO about Pinball, inner workings of the games and have no control over what Stern needs to do for the game to function in it's proprietary Spike 2 environment for example. They don't control how many sectors Stern can leave open in it's software to allow for me to custom my game if desired, etc. The same way the IP can't control if I want to put a 'Custom message' on startup that Stern has the rights to design into it's software.. it's my right to have the message say anything I please as the owner, even if it were on location in a business, and that would be on me & the business to take full responsibility for that message if it's appropriate or not. Stern can absolutely leave some things open if they'd like for us to customize things and they don't even have to say a word about it if their worried about violating any agreement. I also created an Orchestration for the Tommy game with the Original Motion Picture soundtrack from a cd that I ripped, legally own, and it's my best sounding, most complete music game in my collection, that has all my favorite Who songs & more. Pinsound for example, is a great, legal company, that makes great products and they get around it, the same way Stern could design, and at the very least get around things, if they continue to innovate. I don't want to see great games like Godzilla, Bond, being released any longer featuring just 1 song or a couple of songs without the ability to customize. Not at these prices, so being a musician, collector, fan, hobbyist who buys these games for personal use? not to flip? The Premium is looking much better to me right now because of the music rights issue & because aesthetically it's a complete game at a better price, abd it's branded "You Only Live Twice" with the art, it was one of my favorite Connery movies taking place in Japan and it has the original You Only Live Twice song by Nancy Sinatra, missing no game features. One can always powder coat the armor.. so if the games ends up great? I'll probably pick up a Premium next year! Until then. Peace.

Meh. I'm not buying it. You can stream it on YouTube for free. I just don't think it's a priority for Stern. A Bond pin without Bond music is just lame...they need to try harder. The John Williams audio on JP2 makes the game, and it sucks to rely on heroic hobbyists to fill the void.

I just today said: Alexa play Pink Floyd. Alexa said: Playing Pink Floyd on Pandora Radio.
Next I'll ask her to play James Bond.

My next pin:-
Deadpool Prem or Bond Prem.

I get unreservedly excited with the notion of owning a DP.
The thought of pulling the pin on Bond right now gives me anxiety.

Deadpool's a safe bet. At this point Bond is a bet.

Play Dead Pool for a year, sell it, and Bond should be mostly coded by then.

Like many people in this thread, I've been contemplating letting my LE go. Then yesterday I got the invoice and price from my distributor. MSRP with shipping included. I'm comfortable with that, paid it and requested to be put on the Elwin SLE list.

I will approach the Bond SLE purchase in the same manner as the LE. Depends on the price. The $25K or even the $20K range is a hard no.

With invoices coming out should we expect this to be on the line and shipping soon? I would think so if full payment is being asked for.

Someone mentioned earlier LE’s on the line in December.

Nitro just had a few on they’re site that are no longer available, listing for December.

That is what I remembered. Just didn’t know if stern distros usually collect full payment that far in advance.

They usually do because Stern requires payment for the LEs right away after a reveal, and the distro gets their allotment.

I have this on Vinyl...

Me too! I think I bought it in High School.

I love the "not quite Connery, not quite Moore" artwork they have for bond on the LP. That's how you skirt licensing issues!

I am leaning this way - I may cancel my pre-order

I feel like I am taking a leap of faith when I don't have to. I can always buy a Bond in a year or 2.

Paid my bond LE last week. 450 for shipping I was fine with. Sales tax in my state and city was prob highest in country I’d imagine. 9.5%. One of the prices of no state income tax in TN.

So yea this is an insanely expensive machine. I wasn’t going to wait though.

A very sensible decision. As they say - first impressions last. I can guarantee you, early buyers will be bitterly disappointed at the basic code. Wait a year, and you will be richly rewarded.

Stern need to pull their finger out and stop releasing games with basic, early code. I'm a coder and I can code the shit out of this game in only a few months. The best of the best are supposedly at Stern, not a chance from what I've seen.

Early buyers won’t be disappointed because they know what to expect on the code. 3 days and 50+ Plays on it and I can’t wait to get Bond home. Also look at the progress on code from the cell phone video to the deadflip stream. The code is going to look very different in 30 days when these start shipping.
It’s still way earlier than normal Stern, but it’s a fun game as it stands.

According to Ron on Slam Tilt Podcast, pops fire together on the premium, independently on the pro.

Did anyone notice this at expo?

Interesting, two pops right?

To be fair the code on my January 22 first batch Rush Pro was pretty darn good. I have zero regrets buying that immediately.

I feel like Bond will be a great pin but it will take longer and the theme while very good (I am a Bond fan) , is not a dream theme or a must have.

Thats what they said… the two pops are tied together

Wow, so on the Premium and LE you get home pin tech? To save what - a node board? Wonder if they are on one coil also?

Are you sure that's not reversed?

If you look closely at the Deadflip premium stream, it does appear that the bottom and top right pop bumpers are tied/fire together....lame.

Sure looks like they're firing at the same time here:

Bond_LE_Prem_Tied_Pops.gif

First target mono bars and now THIS - on the LE and Premium?? Boo.

It suggests not a cost reduction but in fact... filling up what they normally have (two node boards) and running out of capacity.

Well, sort of cost reduction - they could have used another node board (maybe a smaller one if they have one>??), but obviously was decided the cost wasn't worth it. And probably rightly so - no one cares about pops anyway. Running off one switch probably lessens the time in the pops anyway, but it does make them even more useless. Just a space filler.

There are definitely 2 coils. Hard to see, but looks like the switch wires are the same colour?
Screenshot 2022-10-28 130558 (resized).jpg

Ron said they are tied together on the premium, separate on the Pro. I guess they ran out of node board slots?

Reduction means to take away... here if it stays true they are on the same switch circuit, it simply means they decided another switch location was more important than the pop... and too important to cost out. It makes no sense to include a large driver board for a single driver or switch... normally they would be forced to give something up to stay within the budget of two driver boards.

Will be interesting to see once the manuals post.

Just semantics. Anyway - those are one of the lamest pop nests for a long time - almost completely enclosed, you can't see them and now they're running on one switch to make them even more anaemic. Why bother!?!?!?

Stop the pops I say!!!

Well, George Gomez said Goldfinger alone was more than the entire Bond license, sooo… more than most would think.

So if I buy a machine for home use, then decide to route it, I’m expected to purchase that public license separately. That’s a whole can of worms nobody is interested in. Once you remove public use case, it doesn’t make sense to have coin mechs, software that calculates credits and earnings, insider connected data that tracks errors, trends, etc.

Pinball machines are public amusement devices. Stern already makes home pins for this exact scenario you’re talking about.

I think you might be misunderstanding where the real investment in the music is - it’s on Stern’s end. They need to fork over a considerable amount to be able to sell machines with that music. It’s less about arcade operators playing these songs in conjunction with amusement sales, and more with Stern directly making money off advertising “Goldfinger” as included value.

You are not even close. Most people like to be early adopters of code, it is quite a journey watching the code develop.

Each to their own.

Peeps got fed up waiting on BM66 and sold their pins.
There were no real licensing issues with that.
I pulled the trigger on a signed one when it was polished and got the wow experience.
Bond is still going back and forth for any changes.
Gomez informed the licensors are very responsive…
However this has been in the making for a few years and still looks early.
I think this is gonna take ages.
I’m gonna wait it out based on my gut.

Stern makes "home pins" for price sensitive consumers that aren't pinball enthusiasts (i.e. not Pinsiders). It's a very small % of their market/output.

A majority of the pinball machines built in the past couple decades are going into private homes, not public places. Sure, they were originally developed as public amusement devices, but without the home market, Stern wouldn't be in business.

License holder doesn't care.

I suspect most people want games to function like they always have, for decades. For the price Stern is charging, they shouldn’t cut corners like this.

I do not think the stats support that "the majority" of games are going into private collections today.

It doesn't bother me if they are tied together, but it is eyebrow raising....

It's not a big deal. People didn't even notice till it was pointed out to them

Better to use the limited number of solenoid control outputs on more interesting things than a pop bumper cluster where it makes zero meaningful difference.

I did notice on the Deadflip stream that George mentioned a couple of times that he was able to get 'a lot of pop bumper action with only 2 pops'. This was likely what he meant.

I just figured he meant the ball moves a lot/is in the pops a lot for only having 2 pops, which is also true. That statement doesn't lead me to believe that he was saying they were tied together, but thats just my opinion. Also I think they were playing the premium on deadflip so from what we're hearing here, that version has independent pops anyway.