Melbourne Beach, FL
Where is the Expo gameplay video guys!!?
(Topic ID: 321756)
Linked Games
James Bond 007 (LE)
Stern, 2022-
James Bond 007 (Premium)
Stern, 2022
-
James Bond 007 (Pro)
Stern, 2022
Topic Gallery
Quoted from Grantman:FYI, Amazon Prime customers: The James Bond movies now say "Leaving Prime on November 4." Watch/stream them while you can!
Yup! My son and I are watching in order, and according to Roku, Prime had the best rental rates of all my apps. Meanwhile we just watched You Only Live Twice over the last 2 nights and it was free, so we said we have to rush one every open night until that ends… which is apparently Nov. 4.
Quoted from 80sMan:Good points.. there’s no excuse, really. it’s all software and can be developed the same way a Jukebox option is inserted into code.. at the very least they could just be sure all new code improvements can still be opened in Pinball Browser.. it would just take a minute for the programmer to check that and especially if now Gomez admitted the song licenses are too expensive even though the game is costing us a fortune. They could just design it, leave the music out of that mode and make no assertion that Goldfinger should be inserted there, for example, let us do it. Easier to code too. Fact: There’s no music for the mode in the code already! So note to Gomez, just leave it as it is and please just make sure we can add it if desired.
‘No reason’ except the IP holder who wants to control how their property is represented and portrayed.
Quoted from Grantman:Does anyone know how the music licensing for a pinball machine works? Gomez said the music license holder wanted more money for the Goldfinger song than the entire Bond license costs (so they did not get that song). If I buy the song for personal use I can get the MP3 on Amazon for only 89 cents (and that includes Amazon's cut) so why should it be more to put it on a pinball machine (per game)?
Alternatively, why can't Stern just make a feature on new games where we can load our own songs and can swap out the default music?
I work in music production, so I’ll try to answer this in non-entertainment lawyer lingo.
There is a massive (ie, colossal) difference between you, the customer, buying one digital copy of a song to listen to on your phone or stereo, vs. buying the rights to sell a song. Stern are effectively selling a James Bond MGM product, as well as any other assets included, like poster art reproduction, automobile and actor likenesses, music, etc.
Think about it like buying a Starbucks coffee. You wanna buy a coffee from Starbucks, it’ll cost you $2. However, if you want to sell Starbucks coffee, now the game has changed entirely. Health code, quality standards, building code, quality / speed of service, etc.
It’s insanely complex. Likewise, it’s insanely expensive.
I’m not surprised at all by the song being more expensive than the entire 007 license. The 007 brand benefits from the pinball machine being made and sold. Stern is making a new Bond experience with the pinball machine, kinda like goldeneye for the n64. This adds to the band’s prestige and it brings in new people to the James Bond universe.
Shirley Bassy (singer of goldfinger), Columbia Records, and everyone else involved gain nothing from a pinball machine being made - the value here is 100% the music and 0% pinball. Stern isn’t doing anything that adds value to the song. The song is simply the song, whereas with clips from the movies, you don’t get the whole movie, just little pieces. Plus, Stern makes their own custom clips, loops, transitions, overlays, etc.. Stern also makes the toys and manipulates art. Again, the song is simply the song.
It also depends on the artist and the record label. Some people are simply more controlling of their brand, and will respond with “f#@k you” numbers when asked about licensing songs for video games, sports, political rallies, and pinball machines.
I’m honestly surprised and excited they got Diamonds Are Forever, You Only Live Twice, and From Russia With Love.
Especially considering Diamonds is another Shirley Bassy song, I’m assuming the issues with Goldfinger wasn’t her. This song was published by EMI, so the holdup could be there, or some bad blood between EMI and Columbia. Could be the different writers of each song and their respective control and fees. Who knows.
Then you have Tom Jones and Decca Records for “Thunderball”, and Luis Armstrong for OHMSS. It’s just a stupid complex tangle of licenses, ESPECIALLY considering some of the people in charge of this shit still want to act like Napster never happened.
I work with a lot of heavy metal record labels, and some of these records are literally financed by jazz back catalog albums, funny enough, but take forever to pay their bills, because their whole business model literally hasn’t changed in 50 years.
So yeah, you walking into Starbucks and buying a coffee is INFINITELY easier than selling Starbucks coffee.
Quoted from KingVidiot:I work in music production, so I’ll try to answer this in non-entertainment lawyer lingo.
There is a massive (ie, colossal) difference between you, the customer, buying one digital copy of a song to listen to on your phone or stereo, vs. buying the rights to sell a song. Stern are effectively selling a James Bond MGM product, as well as any other assets included, like poster art reproduction, automobile and actor likenesses, music, etc.
Think about it like buying a Starbucks coffee. You wanna buy a coffee from Starbucks, it’ll cost you $2. However, if you want to sell Starbucks coffee, now the game has changed entirely. Health code, quality standards, building code, quality / speed of service, etc.
It’s insanely complex. Likewise, it’s insanely expensive.
I’m not surprised at all by the song being more expensive than the entire 007 license. The 007 brand benefits from the pinball machine being made and sold. Stern is making a new Bond experience with the pinball machine, kinda like goldeneye for the n64. This adds to the band’s prestige and it brings in new people to the James Bond universe.
Shirley Bassy (singer of goldfinger), Columbia Records, and everyone else involved gain nothing from a pinball machine being made - the value here is 100% the music and 0% pinball. Stern isn’t doing anything that adds value to the song. The song is simply the song, whereas with clips from the movies, you don’t get the whole movie, just little pieces. Plus, Stern makes their own custom clips, loops, transitions, overlays, etc.. Stern also makes the toys and manipulates art. Again, the song is simply the song.
It also depends on the artist and the record label. Some people are simply more controlling of their brand, and will respond with “f#@k you” numbers when asked about licensing songs for video games, sports, political rallies, and pinball machines.
I’m honestly surprised and excited they got Diamonds Are Forever, You Only Live Twice, and From Russia With Love.
Especially considering Diamonds is another Shirley Bassy song, I’m assuming the issues with Goldfinger wasn’t her. This song was published by EMI, so the holdup could be there, or some bad blood between EMI and Columbia. Could be the different writers of each song and their respective control and fees. Who knows.
Then you have Tom Jones and Decca Records for “Thunderball”, and Luis Armstrong for OHMSS. It’s just a stupid complex tangle of licenses, ESPECIALLY considering some of the people in charge of this shit still want to act like Napster never happened.
I work with a lot of heavy metal record labels, and some of these records are literally financed by jazz back catalog albums, funny enough, but take forever to pay their bills, because their whole business model literally hasn’t changed in 50 years.
So yeah, you walking into Starbucks and buying a coffee is INFINITELY easier than selling Starbucks coffee.
Interesting! Thanks!
Quoted from KingVidiot:I work in music production, so I’ll try to answer this in non-entertainment lawyer lingo.
There is a massive (ie, colossal) difference between you, the customer, buying one digital copy of a song to listen to on your phone or stereo, vs. buying the rights to sell a song. Stern are effectively selling a James Bond MGM product, as well as any other assets included, like poster art reproduction, automobile and actor likenesses, music, etc.
Think about it like buying a Starbucks coffee. You wanna buy a coffee from Starbucks, it’ll cost you $2. However, if you want to sell Starbucks coffee, now the game has changed entirely. Health code, quality standards, building code, quality / speed of service, etc.
It’s insanely complex. Likewise, it’s insanely expensive.
I’m not surprised at all by the song being more expensive than the entire 007 license. The 007 brand benefits from the pinball machine being made and sold. Stern is making a new Bond experience with the pinball machine, kinda like goldeneye for the n64. This adds to the band’s prestige and it brings in new people to the James Bond universe.
Shirley Bassy (singer of goldfinger), Columbia Records, and everyone else involved gain nothing from a pinball machine being made - the value here is 100% the music and 0% pinball. Stern isn’t doing anything that adds value to the song. The song is simply the song, whereas with clips from the movies, you don’t get the whole movie, just little pieces. Plus, Stern makes their own custom clips, loops, transitions, overlays, etc.. Stern also makes the toys and manipulates art. Again, the song is simply the song.
It also depends on the artist and the record label. Some people are simply more controlling of their brand, and will respond with “f#@k you” numbers when asked about licensing songs for video games, sports, political rallies, and pinball machines.
I’m honestly surprised and excited they got Diamonds Are Forever, You Only Live Twice, and From Russia With Love.
Especially considering Diamonds is another Shirley Bassy song, I’m assuming the issues with Goldfinger wasn’t her. This song was published by EMI, so the holdup could be there, or some bad blood between EMI and Columbia. Could be the different writers of each song and their respective control and fees. Who knows.
Then you have Tom Jones and Decca Records for “Thunderball”, and Luis Armstrong for OHMSS. It’s just a stupid complex tangle of licenses, ESPECIALLY considering some of the people in charge of this shit still want to act like Napster never happened.
I work with a lot of heavy metal record labels, and some of these records are literally financed by jazz back catalog albums, funny enough, but take forever to pay their bills, because their whole business model literally hasn’t changed in 50 years.
So yeah, you walking into Starbucks and buying a coffee is INFINITELY easier than selling Starbucks coffee.
Does anyone listen to these Bond songs fron the 60's anymore? I listened to Goldfinger and Thunderball today and was underwhelmed... but I digress.
I guess my question is who is buying or willing to fork out big bucks for these songs in 2023?
Quoted from Utesichiban:Does anyone listen to these Bond songs fron the 60's anymore? I listened to Goldfinger and Thunderball today and was underwhelmed... but I digress.
I guess my question is who is buying or willing to fork out big bucks for these songs in 2023?
I bought both the Goldfinger and You Only Live Twice album soundtracks as a kid. Shirley Bassey still belts.
Quoted from Jvspin:I'm sure this is a dumb question, but can someone tell me what the flipper mech at the back of the playfield is doing?
[quoted image]
It's controlling the diverter on the Prem/LE.
Watch the very back of the playfield to the right of the rocket tower at the beginning of this clip to see the diverter open the path to the tower to lock balls:
Quoted from PinMonk:It's controlling the diverter on the Prem/LE.
Thanks! Surprised there wasn't a simpler diverter mech available.
Quoted from Jvspin:Thanks! Surprised there wasn't a simpler diverter mech available.
Pretty standard setup to drive large diverters.
Quoted from KingVidiot:I work in music production, so I’ll try to answer this in non-entertainment lawyer lingo.
There is a massive (ie, colossal) difference between you, the customer, buying one digital copy of a song to listen to on your phone or stereo, vs. buying the rights to sell a song. Stern are effectively selling a James Bond MGM product, as well as any other assets included, like poster art reproduction, automobile and actor likenesses, music, etc.
Think about it like buying a Starbucks coffee. You wanna buy a coffee from Starbucks, it’ll cost you $2. However, if you want to sell Starbucks coffee, now the game has changed entirely. Health code, quality standards, building code, quality / speed of service, etc.
It’s insanely complex. Likewise, it’s insanely expensive.
Thanks for the post. Makes sense. Now that so many of these games are being used privately, in homes (vs. public places), isn't the business model closer to customers buying one digital copy of a song/movie/etc. for home use? Just seems like the licensing terms (and cost) for public use should be different than for private/home use. Most of us are buying cups of coffee, NOT selling coffee (to use your analogy).
I see you have a JP2 Premium...so do I (one of my favorite games). Tim Stiles enhanced version of the audio/video is brilliant and brings the game to life. I understand why getting all this audio/video content would have made the license more expensive for Stern, but so many of these games are being used privately and shouldn't really add much to the cost (*if* there were 2 licenses...one for private/home use and one for public/arcade use).
Quoted from snaroff:Thanks for the post. Makes sense. Now that so many of these games are being used privately, in homes (vs. public places), isn't the business model closer to customers buying one digital copy of a song/movie/etc. for home use? Just seems like the licensing terms (and cost) for public use should be different than for private/home use. Most of us are buying cups of coffee, NOT selling coffee (to use your analogy).
I see you have a JP2 Premium...so do I (one of my favorite games). Tim Stiles enhanced version of the audio/video is brilliant and brings the game to life. I understand why getting all this audio/video content would have made the license more expensive for Stern, but so many of these games are being used privately and shouldn't really add much to the cost (*if* there were 2 licenses...one for private/home use and one for public/arcade use).
Those mansions are not going to pay for themselves.
How would you police how the game is utilized?
Quoted from gdonovan:Those mansions are not going to pay for themselves.
How would you police how the game is utilized?
Well, this is the solution for the movie industry, which is substantially larger than the pinball industry. A pinball machine that accepts $$ in a public place isn't that hard to police when compared with the arbitrary public consumption of a DVD. Sure, it's imperfect, but if it's good enough for the movie industry, it should be good enough for pinball.
image (resized).pngQuoted from snaroff:Well, this is the solution for the movie industry, which is substantially larger than the pinball industry. A pinball machine that accepts $$ in a public place isn't that hard to police when compared with the arbitrary public consumption of a DVD. Sure, it's imperfect, but if it's good enough for the movie industry, it should be good enough for pinball.
[quoted image]
Haaaa. Like that notice has stopped a single pirate.
Are you aware the music industry will actually send enforcers around to bars and other public venues to make sure the no music is utilized without paying the proper fees? My friend ran a bar and had to deal with that.
Quoted from gdonovan:Haaaa. Like that notice has stopped a single pirate.
Are you aware the music industry will actually send enforcers around to bars and other public venues to make sure the no music is utilized without paying the proper fees? My friend ran a bar and had to deal with that.
Yes, I am aware. Again, it's good enough for the movie industry. Pinball can easily cope with the same level of imperfection...the glory days of public pinball everywhere is over. My overarching point is this: Since pinball consumption has shifted from largely public to largely private, you'd think the licensing terms would need to be modernized to accommodate the shift. Make sense?
Quoted from snaroff:Since pinball consumption has shifted from largely public to largely private, you'd think the licensing terms would need to be modernized to accommodate the shift.
If it means less money for the license holder the answer will always be NO.
And that is the reality of the situation.
Quoted from gdonovan:If it means less money for the license holder the answer will always be NO.
And that is the reality of the situation.
Hmm. Your comment makes no sense, since the movie industry has decided otherwise (whatever...).
The answer for pinball is much more likely to be the license holder doesn't have much motivation, since pinball is no longer all that relevant (in terms of numbers). Fortunately, pinball software is able to be hacked and Tim Stiles JP2 work is a shining example of how much A/V assets can add to a game. Just a shame it requires so much personal effort to give the community something cool. If Bond doesn't contain the Bond songs for licensing reasons, it will detract from the game experience (which is a shame).
Quoted from Utesichiban:Does anyone listen to these Bond songs fron the 60's anymore? I listened to Goldfinger and Thunderball today and was underwhelmed... but I digress.
I guess my question is who is buying or willing to fork out big bucks for these songs in 2023?
Wonder if the game would still have the orchestral versions of the title songs. I think that would fit in the game better than the versions with the lyrics.
Quoted from snaroff:Hmm. Your comment makes no sense, since the movie industry has decided otherwise (whatever...).
Movie and music industries while similar in some ways are indeed still different.
Sometimes I wonder if the license would be cheaper if Stern offered a model without a coin door, separate code, and a means to not make it coin-op. Star Wars Home and Jurassic Park Home licenses might have cost less? Idk. They're mostly just reusing the assets from the cornerstone.
Then again, a lot of public locations have gone to pay per time, not pay per play. So then it's a moot point because everything is on free play.
Quoted from Utesichiban:Does anyone listen to these Bond songs fron the 60's anymore? I listened to Goldfinger and Thunderball today and was underwhelmed... but I digress.
I guess my question is who is buying or willing to fork out big bucks for these songs in 2023?
I have to admit that as a kid the only thing I remember about the Bond songs was watching the women float/bounce around in the shadows trying to figure out if they were naked. I grew up more in the Roger Moore era and I know the songs but I can’t say I’m eager to hear any of them over and over.
Will this thread become the owners thread or will that be a new thread once people starting getting pins. I put a deposit on a Premium before expo. Was sold by the Dead Flip steam. No expectations on timing.
Edmonton, AB
Quoted from SimplePin:Will this thread become the owners thread or will that be a new thread once people starting getting pins.
This one is hype ... there will be a owners club !
Quoted from SLAMT1LT:I will never understand why people spend this kind of money on a game with crappy early code. The game you actually want may be years away, and yet you'll buy this machine, look at it, occasionally play it, but will always feel unsatisfied that it's not finished.
So ultimately, you're paying 12 grand for something which is ok now but promises to be awesome later. Bizarre.
And they spend the entire time complaining and making demands for code updates to justify money they already spent. But yeah, better buy now or else you will be paying more later.
Quoted from jawjaw:And they spend the entire time complaining and making demands for code updates to justify money they already spent. But yeah, better buy now or else you will be paying more later.
They could keep it in the box until the code matures 
I may be doing that if I don’t free up some space…
Quoted from gdonovan:Those mansions are not going to pay for themselves.
How would you police how the game is utilized?
That’s were dlc and ic could come in. Sell a song to a user or a home location. Then I’d think it would be fairly cheap depending how much work they did (is it just music, or are lights etc. coded to it).
Quoted from Utesichiban:Does anyone listen to these Bond songs fron the 60's anymore? I listened to Goldfinger and Thunderball today and was underwhelmed... but I digress.
I guess my question is who is buying or willing to fork out big bucks for these songs in 2023?
All the time on vinyl. The Dr. No and Goldfinger soundtracks are the best.
I downloaded "The Best Of Bond... James Bond" (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09GJX44QR/) recently. It has all the main theme songs (but not the extra songs that are in the movies).
My Top James Bond Theme Songs
--------------------------------------
1. The original theme song (Dr. No) - John Barry Orchestra
2. Live and Let Die - Paul McCartney
3. Goldfinger - Shirley Bassey
4. You Know My Name (Casino Royale) - Chris Cornell
5. Nobody Does it Better (The Spy Who Loved Me) - Carly Simon
Also worth mentioning (yes, I know that 2 of the Oscar winners are not even listed here):
OHMSS main theme - John Barry Orchestra
We Have All the Time in the World (OHMSS) - Louis Armstrong
For Your Eyes Only - Sheena Easton
A View to a Kill - Duran Duran
Writing's on the Wall (Spectre) - Sam Smith
All Time High (Octopussy) - Rita Coolidge
Quoted from Utesichiban:Does anyone listen to these Bond songs fron the 60's anymore? I listened to Goldfinger and Thunderball today and was underwhelmed... but I digress.
I guess my question is who is buying or willing to fork out big bucks for these songs in 2023?
Doesn't really matter, the rights holder still see value in their product and want their money
Quoted from PanzerKraken:Doesn't really matter, the rights holder still see value in their product and want their money
Exactly.
You could state a little money is better than no money but I know stars like Sigourney Weaver who demand exorbitant amounts of money and so many projects simply pass because its not worth it even when the star in question has to do NO WORK.
David Thiel talked about this as he did the sound work for Alien, getting the rights for using Ellen Ripley was impossible due to the money.
Quoted from Methos:I go with Diamonds are Forever, but same vocalist as Goldfinger.
Diamonds is the 2nd best imo but also an excellent choice. Shirley Bassey is great!
Interesting history behind the Tom Jones performance of the song, "Thunderball". This was a last minute addition to the film as the music team had been working on the first, different composed song for an extended period of time before they decided to drop it and write "Thunderball" and then record it with Tom Jones. The originally planned song to be incorporated into the movie was "Mr. Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang" which was written as a song describing James Bond specifically rather than the villain or the plot, a shift in perspective from past theme songs. They recorded two versions of "Mr. Kiss Kiss. Bang Bang", first with Shirley Bassey and next with Dionne Warwick (while I think Bassey has a great voice, in this case I think the Warwick version is the better of the two - although as it turns out, the switch to Thunderball was probably the right move). You tube links to both versions of "Mr. Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang" are below:
- Shirley Bassey Version
- Dionne Warwick Version
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderball_%28soundtrack%29 - Wickipedia detailed writeup on Thunderball music, including about Title Theme song
Quoted from NashtyFunk:0 you don’t even notice the rocket shaking while playing. While watching I saw a guy shaking the crap out of the game every time the ball was in the pops and the rocket dong was hilarious.
Ha! Redefines "If you shake it more than 3 times you're playing with it"
Quoted from iluvak9:You tube links to both versions of "Mr. Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang" are below:
- Shirley Bassey Version
- Dionne Warwick Version
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderball_%28soundtrack%29 - Wickipedia detailed writeup on Thunderball music, including about Title Theme song
Dionne's version is way better, but they both were obviously working to make a terrible song passable.
Good information. I might have missed it but did anyone clarify on the premium builds on the line? Is it still early/mid Dec?
Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:Good information. I might have missed it but did anyone clarify on the premium builds on the line? Is it still early/mid Dec?
Location pros then LEs then maybe some prems. It will be a while for a premium.
Listened to this yesterday and as much as I appreciate the Bond music I think a studio surf rock jam band would be fun pinball music, utilize the approved Bond tracks to help create moments, but rely on more driven music for the main pinball action.
Definitely don’t want to kill the theme song by hearing it all the time, & the other Bond songs don’t exactly lend themselves to high energy play or multiball momentum, but they could magically enhance modes/moments.
I like how they’re incorporating a lot of sound effects from the movies for switch hits, if there’s any villain fights I think the punches and sounds of tables & chairs overturning would be cool incorporated into the pops for a nice scuffle effect specific to that mode.
We’re excited to get our premium in December and once the additional assets are incorporated this is going to be a super fun package for any Bond fan!
1963E4E3-A962-476A-9EE0-C6A311CC838C (resized).jpeg9474FE49-5E14-4DE7-9629-C13F01B778FA (resized).jpeg
Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:Good information. I might have missed it but did anyone clarify on the premium builds on the line? Is it still early/mid Dec?
Quoted from JustEverett:Location pros then LEs then maybe some prems. It will be a while for a premium.
As of this weekend premiums were still slated for December for first batch.
Quoted from Psw757:As of this weekend premiums were still slated for December for first batch.
Thank you
Quoted from Haymaker:Goldfinger is by far the best song of the Connery era imo
Agreed....no comparison...it's the standard and template.
Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:Thank you
Any idea on the second batch? My distro told me February but now I'm seeing April on here.
Quoted from Psw757:As of this weekend premiums were still slated for December for first batch.
Doubt it
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
