I do, quite often actually.

Yep... I update my ratings as I deem fit. Sometimes I only get to play a single copy of the deck. Other times I get to play a game I haven't seen in years. Sometimes there are software revisions and other times a game is taken care of as it should be and plays differently than it had in a less than ideal state of operation.

I keep the old reviews and add on to the history of my experience with the deck . A review is not an absolute.

Who rates what? And why? What am I missing?
What was that extremely long opening paragraph about?

I'm sure your the exception not the rule. Your also an honest guy from what I can tell.

I think thats respectable. I just do not have the drive or time to rate all or even half the games I have played. So I rate games I have played a fair amount of through the years.

If I believe it's a ten, it's a ten to me.

Exactly! I was recently criticized for making a comment about them being overrated.. I have rated several games. Big deal. I still enjoy rating them and try to be fair, but the reviews shouldnt be used for anything other than fun.

Crap, I guess I better tell you I dont really live in Hulktown then

Lets all get crazy and push southpark to #1 just to mess with the system. JK

Maybe it is/was. But to me, when the scale would appear to be from 1-10, a 5.something rating connotes a D-. Far below average. To say that WOZ is far worse than most pins ever made "sounds" (that's the word I used originally. Not "is". Sounds.) "bogus".

I feel dirty now

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why are you sure of that? My board game reviews are constantly being revised as my opinion changes over time. Most people I know who have large collections enjoy going back and looking at their old ratings and revising them. It's kinda like experience scrapbooking. I haven't started reviewing pins but I'm sure those will change with time as well.

When I first played Seawitch, I thought it was janky and irritating. Now it's in my top 5. My opinion changed. I wouldn't rate a game based on what I believe its objective value is to other people, I rate games based on my experience with it.

Ok, let me rephrase. I am willing to bet, most people rate a game and leave it at that. I'm not including you, as most people. No offence intended

That would be an issue with the presentation of the scale, and not the review itself. The user is asked to rate each field with a 1-6. They are not asked to give a percentage.

And still, it's subjective. If I tend to enjoy most pins and I am very forgiving of their shortcomings, the division between the top 10% and the bottom 10% might be between 4 and 6 in each category. If I am more critical, then a pin that scores a 5 in gameplay might be one of my favorites because I reserve 6 for my absolute favorite.

How is the answer to 4) 5.5 if its multiplied by ten?

Ahhhh, sounds a little bogus to me!

I don"t really put to much into the Pinside Ranking system. It's a subjective thing. One man's meat is another man's poison. I am curious though. Is this photo bogus?

image.jpg

BT_3_bogus.jpg

Every time I see this thread, this is all I can think of.

so in your opinion no stern games should have any ratings.

Negative.

I always think it is funny when people talk about "not even looking at ratings." Ratings are important because, like it or not, higher ratings = higher value this is why Demolition man, made a year after though still wide body, is less valuable than Indiana Jones the pinball Adventure.

It doesn't take anything away from the "fun" of Demo man but, the theme art package etc....well, detract from its desirability.

unfortunately the ratings system is used to inflate game values on Pinside...which makes the market(on pinside) kind of skewed.
If you really want to learn about a pin though...you know, to "compare" it to others you have liked to see if it might be worth buying...use multiple sources like you were taught in school...even then you STILL might trade it in a month

I personally think that Wizard of Oz is in no way less than a top 20 machine but...that is just me being hypnotized by all the pretty lights

One of the coolest things about ratings for me is that I'm now always on the hunt to play a new game wherever I go. When I find a table that I haven't played before it's an "Automatic Great Day" for me. I feel like I'm a 6 year old kid with a pocket full of quarters at the roller disco. I'm giddy and then I do the happy pinball dance as I get to play a "new" game and take some notes so I can write a review. Depending on the experience playing the game ... This can be a thing of beauty or a glorified rant. Either way, I'm gonna enjoy sharing the experience and I can't wait to find a "new" pinball game again.

At least, that's how it works for me!

I see what you did there.

There is a big difference between finished and done.

Until the product is said to be finished or is no longer being produced I can not assume it is finished.

Really love reading your reviews my friend, thanks for taking the time to really go into depth which each machine you rate, and sharing it with the community, I remember one night I started reading your reviews and by the time I was finished it was like 6 in morning, and I didn't realize because they were so in depth and interesting, Keep up the good work, hope to read a few more in the future...cheers...

WoZ being rated a 1 is just fine and not bogus. 10 is fine as well.

Sorry my late reply to this thread. I already contacted MOF about this but figured to also post some remarks here.

First of all, the top 100 took a lot of time to built and a lot of time to maintain and I expect people who decide to participate in it to take rating machines serious. If I find people clowning around with the ratings system then I will simply reset their rating status to 'unchecked' which will cause their rating reviews to disappear from all Pinside pages but their own personal Pinside profile page. That will also stop their ratings from counting towards the Top 100 listing and counting towards a machine's total score.

The key phrase in the above paragraph is "if I find" because that's where the problem is. I can't keep up monitoring the thousands of ratings being made by people who were already approved initially.

And that's where you, the helpful Pinside member, step in: You can use the bogus flag to help identify these people.

When you use the "bogus flag" button, nothing actually happens but a number is stored in our database. Once a rater has an x amount of bogus flags, I will be triggered to look into his/her ratings and take action if needed. This usually means that someone loses their rating status (their ratings no longer count, as described above).

I do think MOF makes a good point, the bogus flags count are a "stain" on good reviews (and yes, I consider his review on WOZ a good rating review) and for that reason I have decided to hide the amount of bogus flags from now on.

The amount of people who starred a review is still visible.

Additonally, I have added functionality to remove your bogus flag or your rating star:

Screenshot 2013-11-29 12.35.13.png

And when you remove it:

Screenshot 2013-11-29 12.37.09.png

Note, the above is just an example - There's nothing wrong with PDXMonkey's review there

well i mean ok, but all snark aside, without exaggeration that can literally take years to happen. i mean new code is still being developed for Metallica (and WOZ).

It's not really. If you think about it, your rating is for other people. For the community, otherwise, why bother? Anyone rating a game for himself - or trying to manipulate others by way of his/her rating is being a narcissist. And truly engaging in mental masturbation. Rate fairly and with an open mind. While a 10 might actually be possible to some, is a 1 really possible? For someone who purports to love pinball? A 1? Really?

Although a 1 rating is technically possible, I personally believe that it could never be given by anyone claiming to even remotely liking to occasionally play pinball. Even my most hated game ever scores way more than a 1.0

A 10 on the other hand should be possible, but I don't think one should have more than one rating of 10. After all, given the choice between your top 2 rated machines you would always be possible to pick one above the other, right?

Maybe these limitations should be imposed somehow, avoiding people to rate a game the same as another. Hmm, don't know if that would be even possible...

All of the above is all IMHO

Thank you. You just made my day.

Now go play some more pin!!!

Correct. Diner is 9.9 and only because nothing is perfect.

That is one of the best comments I have heard lately. Condition of pin does greatly influence your ratings. In fact, if you were to take a HUO or restored game of any title and rate it, and then compare it back to ratings you did on same title at an earlier date, I guarantee you would rate the latter significantly higher.

Since you love numbers i ran a simple average for you on your ratings. As of the time of this post you have rated 26 machines. When you add the final rating of each machine you get a score of 210.548. Divide that score by the number of machines you have rated (26) and you get 8.098 for you personal simple average. Since we seem to agree each person has a subjective rating, you rated WOZ below average by your standards.

Not saying it is a good or bad rating, just saying by your own standards it is not average as you tried to use numbers to justify your rating before. I am not sure why you started to post other than to justify your rating. The only reason to do that is if you know it is not valid so you are digging for others to agree with you.

even more than that, I see ratings for some machines that are like "had this in my collection .. it was a maintenance nightmare. 4.0."

now, that is an honest and valid opinion ... but I don't think it's what the rankings are intended to reflect. the rating isn't "bogus" per se, although it is misguided.

ps - yes, my love for Black Hole and STTNG is showing

I have one 10 for my favorite game. after that I try to score at least the first few to rank (in my profile) in order of how much I like the game.

If 1 is not valid it should not be an option. IMHO as it is now 1 is legit, so is 10. Trying to thought police will not help TFA . If you don't want the lowest end of a scale used, eliminate the lowest score option. LOL.

Just so there is no confusion, there is nothing remotely Likert about the rating system on Pinside. Likert scales require a relative change in the level of "agreement" (or other measured response) that coincides with a change in the numerical scale (i.e. an interval scale). There is no such presumption or even structure set up in the Pinside ratings, which are simply an "arbitrary" numerical assignment by the rater.

There is also no real problem with the current form of the ratings (numerically speaking) as long as everyone rates every game or at least a relative proportion of "high raters" and "low raters" rate each game. Of course, neither of these are likely.

Until the sea of WOZ Haters stepped up in mass to do everything possible to keep WOZ ratings down, I used to consider Pinside a credible place to learn about a machine. I just saw a 4.66 rating for WOZ. Come on…really? These IMO bogus ratings come complete with back-handed compliments and other bipolar perspectives. WOZ is full of sub 6 ratings that actually use the words AMAZING and IMPRESSIVE in the write-up. Face it folks, WOZ just redefined the pinball machine. It is OK for us to still love our old machines (I have 15 now including TZ and over 75 since collecting) but don't disrespect pinball, pinside's rating system, and JJP just because all of our old pinball machines just got older.

JJP -- If you are listening…keep up the great work and thank you for opening up a new chapter in the world of pinball.

Pinside -- I am not sure there is anything you can do to right the ship. Perhaps better analytics to detect the manipulation of ratings. WOZ, for example, has seen more rating manipulation than any other machine (cause it so drastically challenges everything we thought we knew about pinball) almost suggesting that its current 8.279 rating would normalize to around a 9.2 if delivered in the hey-day of the 90s. I suppose that's why a machine with no supply limits sells for nearly 2x what the other top machines sell for in scarce supply…hmmm…perhaps that says it all right there.

get real scf. My low woz rating (yet to be updated) was on early code, if you think it played great in that state your ratings are bogus.. Everyone manipulates the ratings when they write their own thoughts in, heaven forbid someone thinks your grail pin stinks.
What in woz challenges anything I thought I knew about pinball?... cuz I don't see anything mind blowingly new.. I don't think pinball needs any fundamental change anyways.

You are a typical example of what is wrong with the rating system….and why its meaningless…...

Maybe they can set up a WOZ fan club only ratings page where only ratings of 10 and higher are allowed
Anything less will simply not be tolerated! and when WOZ finally rates a perfect 10 you will realize it doesn't freakin matter and it never did.
Enjoy the games you love and try not to let other peoples opinions bother you.

FNXKIPKFD2IBRXG.LARGE.jpg

Maybe these guys have a better idea about a rating?

health-alert-youre-taking-crap-wrong-is-you-poop-properly.w654.jpg

I'm thinking that most of the ratings are done while doing this……..and the value is about worth what's in the bowl

The ratings system and democracy have the same major flaw. Too many idiots can have a say. The world and the pinball top 100 would be such a better place if I would be supreme ruler.