Hey everybody...

I sent my Pinbot CPU and power boards out for repair, as the game was failing to boot up - turn it on and it would light up, ding, run through the solenoids like normal, but then would restart and just keep doing that. Seemed like board repair was the answer.

So the boards are coming back to me tomorrow, but with the warning that:

"The transistor that controls the general illumination lighting on the CPU board (Q8 and associated components) was literally blown in half. This playfield area should be checked for problems prior to reinstalling the CPU as damage to the circuit may occur again."

I asked for clarification, and was told:

"You need the manual to check the wiring and components associated with Q8 (general illumination switching circuit) under the playfield for shorts prior to reinstalling the board as the board may be damaged as a result (which would void the repair warranty). The manual has all the info within."

I don't doubt this is true, but this is still pretty vague to my unaccustomed to electronic repair ears. Does this mean I need to check every GI bulb on the play field until I find a short? There was never any problem with the play field lighting before I sent the boards out - the problem I was having seems entirely unrelated - but clearly something was up.

Anybody out there ever have a similar problem? I want to play my PinBot again, but don't want to be stupid about this.

Thanks Chris. I just tested (in my dimly-understanding, cro-magnon way) all 3 relays under the play field (without having invested the effort to identify which was which) and was getting continuity on all 3. Should I just relax and hook up the boards?

Or should I suck it up and write to Clive and just be frank with him about how totally ignorant I am about what he's trying to communicate?

Ah! OK, probably won't get to that this evening but will take a look at it in the morning a post photos ASAP. Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated.

Quick cro-mag question: the connector = the yellow square cap? And it simply pulls off, yes?

Re:Spooky - yeah, Clive has been pretty responsive via email. Between him and this forum I have no doubt I can get the help I need. Gawd, I can't imagine being in this hobby in the pre-internet days...I probably wouldn't have attempted it!

So: I need to pull the relay and its board, then unsolder the relay FROM the board? (First timer here, sorry to be so skittish about the whole affair). The GI relay appears to be the one in the corner, as it has the yellow wiring that goes to various bulbs...

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...or can I simply test the pins in situ? (Maybe I'm making this harder than it needs to be? Usually the case...

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Instructions, please. The multimeter still seems like something out of Star Trek to me.

I can build you a fantastic run of cabinetry or furniture, and could probably turn out reproduction pinball cabinets like a champ, but when it comes to electronics, I'm starting rather from scratch.

Wires seem pretty solidly connected (though I understand bad solder joints can be hard to catch visually.) But it looks like a pretty solid slug of solder on each and they feel pretty firm at the contacts. For the record, there are 7 wires - 2 red, 2 yellow, 3 purple.

OHMs read .648

I'm reading .308 in diode test mode. Did not de-solder the diode, just reading it in place.
If "in both directions" means switching which probes on which end of the diode (is that what you mean?), I'm getting .308 both ways.

Absolutely! I bought a multimeter preemptively 2 years ago, knowing I would need it eventually. It's great to start to get some sense, however elementary, of how electronics testing is done. Empowering and saves boatloads of cash as well...
Waiting and working it out will be worth while. I want my sys11 games to run for another 30 years! Big respect for Clive as well. Between him and this forum we're pretty well set up for this obsessive hobby...

OK, will desolder it later and re-test. Have to build the cabinets for a while first...in order to pay for all these replacement parts...

Cool, thanks for the tip!
Is it your opinion that once it's been replaced, it's then safe to re-install the boards? (Just for the record, there hadn't been any GI problems)
Kind of hoping it reads dead just so I can say I found an actual issue...

OK, checked the the diode, which looked fine, replaced. Checked the relay while the diode was out, and it too read fine. All the fuses in the power board are new thanks to Clive, other fuses under the play field appear to be correct. One bulb socket was pretty loose and close to a pop bumper solenoid switch, so that's one potential culprit, I suppose. The best I've got at this point.

When do I decide to turn the game on and risk ruining all of Clive's good work?

Hey, thanks guys!
So I did all these things, listened carefully to the relay in question and went so far as to disconnect the speakers so the buzz from them wouldn't distract and...not a peep. Everything seemed OK, so I did, in fact, let 'er rip. Works just fine.

Thanks SO MUCH to Chris and Thedefog for their patient, step by step assistance. I don't know if I learned too awful much about electronics (though I suppose I'll keep learning on an as-neede basis), but I did learn that Pinside is full of helpful people who want you to succeed, and that counts for a LOT! I really do appreciate it.

Now I can go back to obsessing over the usual pinball junk...like that one pop bumper that looks like it might need a rebuild kit...and the stupid vortex shot that only works about a third of the time...but that's a subject for another thread...

Umm...well, I thought we were in the clear. I'm starting to think this game is cursed.

The only things I have done to the game beside the various tests we discussed was to fix the solder on the switch on the left ramp entrance and adjust the leaves on the ramp exit switch (which had good solder but wasn't registering rollovers). I fired up the game a few minutes ago, it seemed OK, But Then: when I opened the visor, it just kept going up and down, up and down. I let the ball drain to see what would happen. Visor kept going. Didn't kick new ball into shooter lane. Manually kicked a new ball in, visor closed. Started new ball - now the spot targets aren't registering.

Went to take a look and see if there was something mechanically wrong, removed the glass and BLAM! the glass shattered everywhere.

This game is cursed.

All helpful input appreciated.

Thanks, Vid! I'm honored to have attracted your attention. Help a brother out with now maddeningly dysfunctional game?

TheDefog: I just went into diagnostics and using "switch edges", I manually touched off all the switches. Every one of them is responsive. However, in "switch levels", a minute ago it was indicating "ramp down" and "visor closed"; I ran them again with the balls in the game and now it's saying "trough 1 sw" and "trough 2 sw". So that's consistent. Maybe unrelated, but a couple years ago I had a problem where the visor would not close, which was solved by replacing a broken switch. But the relationship between the visor switch and the ball trough seems strange. However, the game won't release a ball to the trough until all the play field parts have reset, so it could be as simple as replacing the other switch on the motor housing (the one I should have replaced while I was in there the first time?)

To answer your question, YES IT DID scare the beezeezis out of me when the glass blew up. My games are in my concrete floor woodshop, but I always put the glass down on either corrugated cardboard or a rubber floor mat. I've done it a hundred times, I think the game is just testing my devotion at this point.

Yeah, I figure that glass could well be 27 years old and it was by no means pristine...

Thedefog: I'm going to be working on it this afternoon or tomorrow at the latest. The old visor switch arm looks pretty loose, so I'm going to replace it and see if that fixes the problem. Once I got the assembly taken apart, I decided to replace the foam behind the spot targets; I discovered that the plastic guide for the dropping spot target bank has a crack...fortunately I have a friend who owns a 3D printer!

The eye socket switches are working when I touch them off in Switch Edges.

Pleased to report that, a few hours of dropping screws that always seem to find their way under that raise panel where the bottom speaker mounts and one replacement switch later, PinBot Lives Again! (Man oh man, I am definitely building myself a rotisserie work table for next time.)

The game acts REALLY WEIRD when those switches get broken. My advice to PinBot owners is, if you haven't replaced them, do it. They're cheap, it's an easy fix, and they WILL break on you. The light gauge metal arm on those just gets flakey and craps out. While you're in there, you can add the foam weatherstripping behind the spots, as the existing is either turning to dust or has fallen out long ago.

Pinball Life order for new glass goes in tomorrow. Thanks once again for the sage advice along this little journey. Clearly couldn't do it without the forum. Cheers!

Yeah, I called the local glass place this morning - $31 and change. About half what it would cost to have it shipped. NO BRAINER.

CNKay: The glass shop *should* ask you how you'd like the edge finished. I think they typically will offer a rounded vs. chamfered edge. I told my local shop to simply finish the edge with whatever was cheapest as long as it makes is easy to handle/not sharp. I think rounded is probably the most typical.