(Topic ID: 185852)

BM66...Let's be honest.

By Cheese_WizardPQ

6 years ago


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#85 6 years ago
Quoted from Billy16:

Uh-oh...this ought to be an interesting thread.

see TFLE, XMLE and TAVLE

History doesn't repeat itself but it does rhyme.

Can't say you weren't warned.

#98 6 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

The real question is, how much would I play to own a HUO??? Answer: No more than any other typical premium or LE HUO market game. In the end, the premium Stern charged for this theme was not worth the money and will quickly be given back in the used market.

I agree with the part about the market will tell. likely this will be one of those games that the SLE will be cut in half, I say that truly. There is not $15K there in any way shape or form. I know many SLE buyers will have post purchase rationalization and say it's not so bad but one way or another they will come up for sale and then the sale will have to come at a fair market price.

The BM66 SLE looks like an LE to me nothing it has is worth another $7500 over what a regular LE used to sell for (i.e. STLE).

#103 6 years ago

As great as Lyman is, if BM66 only sells let's say Mustang numbers of this pin, how much is going to be invested?

Stern priced this pin not to sell. They cut off half the potential buyers at least. It's a remake of sorts (or a lesser pin) so they already have a tepid pool. I mean it's not a remake of Tron or LotR it's a remake of TDK.

I'm betting Stern will count this pin in the hundreds of sales (not thousands).

#113 6 years ago

Good point regarding TWD that was kind of meh for a long while.

#117 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Not as bad as Batman, IMO...also not as expensive.

Big problem that, I'm not sure DI is worth the money but it's so much more innovative than BMVE

BM LE = 2 Stern pro pins

BM SLE = 2 Stern LE pins or 3 pro pins for the same money.

BM 66 could have been great but it'd be hard for it to ever live up to the what could have been STLE + Luci or Tron + TWD + Met pro

laughable man

#160 6 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Ethically, what Stern did with this game is just plain wrong.
I'm not sure whether a code update can make it right.
Hopefully, in the end, the owners are truly happy and not just blowing smoke on Pinside.

Agree if they want to change $15000 than make it special don't make a cheap flimsy game and say it's special.

To my it would be like a comic book company saying I'm putting foil cover on this comic otherwise it's the same cheap paper etc. but I'm changing $100 for the foil.

#161 6 years ago

the price of this pin is incredible for what you get period. AS pro looks like 90% of any BM version.

#216 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheese_WizardPQ:

Right now selling is to much of a loss.

That's the pickle. I lost ~ $2000 selling XMLE for a loss ...but I owned it for 4 years so was able to get some good enjoyment. To be sure, there is a difference between IM and XMLE meaning while all pinball is good fun, just feel like some lesser pins are not as fun.

My theory is XMLE was poison, people who like it already own it or have owned it and so it gets tossed in the heap of games that people will buy *at a great price* in other words they will buy it but it's like they are doing you a favor.

$2000 is not really a big bad loss when I've had other pins like PotC for 10 years and could sell it for every penny I have in it, or Tron or ACDC premium. So taking one loss not that bad.

But if BM66 has no legs who will buy then SLE when the premium is --freiken- half the price. There is zero value in a signature card, maybe some would say the topper is worth $400 (I'm being generous) so likely selling a LE or SLE is a bad deal especially if you only got 4 months use instead of 4 years use like I did with XMLE. Would you accept *$1500-2000 loss for 4 months of ownership? (*Edited my post was thinking of SLE instead of LE).

I believe Stern beat the bushes for flippers so there is not any buyers at list price if they wanted one, I'm sure they could have got one SLE or LE without much trouble. This is not GBLE or MET LE or ACDC LE or TRON LE.

I recall GBLE people were freaking out of their mind to get an LE and no trouble getting more than dealer price. BM66 there is zero demand at above dealer price that I can decern.

#220 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Rai, are you saying he would have to sell his LE for $5600 and suffer a $4k loss?
As for taking a loss, if you are buying $10k pins and expect to not take a hit then you better get prepared
People need to enjoy their pins more and quit flipping out if you suffer a loss. You get to enjoy it for years. I'd expect to lose $$. Shit depreciates

Sorry though he had a SLE.

#223 6 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

They are actually under 9k for a le..... standard is also less than 8k...... regardless its still alot of loot.

Well I was anxious to buy JJP 3 or BM66 but seeing DI (not a great theme, if it was: 'crazy monsters destroying a city' theme I'd like it better).

BM66 just didn't look that great to me and after Ghost gate with Stern and Code gate I don't buy any Stern until it's turned into a winner like TWD or Met after 1+ years

Actually BM went from probably buy for me to not ever once I say the price structure. Stern is killing the goose that lays the golden egg with their greedy money grab IMO

#254 6 years ago
Quoted from zucot:

Lyman is good.

Lyman is Great.

Tron
AcDc
Met
TWD
SM

Plus 3 of the top 4 rated pins MM AFM and MB

He is associated with some lesser pins so don't assume just because Lyman is great every pin he works on will be.

WWE is a game I've never played but people say rules can't make up for the design flaws.

#266 6 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

Typo? When it comes to code...
Lyman is a god
He is pretty much responsible for Sterns too 5 games imo.

You're forgetting LotR

#268 6 years ago

I'm curious regarding Lyman and Avatar, IM or WWE for example where he's listed.

I love IM but the code is not as intricate as TWD or Met for example. I love IM and the code is fine, but perhaps some of the secondary levels of Villians could have been kicked up a notch or have some mini wizard type modes if you complete 3x of a mode ( Tspp has a lot of treats like this ) not necessarily something you need to do, but a bit extra treat you could see once in a while.

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#289 6 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Non-pinheads will find the game very interesting, with the rotating toy and LCD screen showing vintage footage. They won't notice all the flaws because they don't know what to look for. I bet not one of your guests commented on "unfinished code"
HOWEVER, those of us who value gameplay and find the game lacking are not haters - we just don't like the game and think it's way overpriced for what you get in the box. The only hating going on is from BM66 owners HATING on the rest of us who don't like the game

Witness South Park pinball's popularity.

Back 14 years ago, I had not played any pinball machines for over a decade plus. I didn't know anything about any of the DMD machines. Well my brother in law had a SP pinball in his basement, I had not played pinball in 22 years. So at that time it was really something great to me with the DMD and the toys and what all. So I really liked SP at the time. Now when I go over his house he still has SP and I'll play a game or two and after having played all the great pins of the last 25 years I can really say SP is horrible.

To me, maybe if someone saw BM with its LCD and if they really were not pinball people it's possible they could be blown away even if the game is meh or bad.

Just because a casual player thinks it great doesn't make it great.

I can't comment one way or the other since I have never played BM66. I am must pointing out that casual player really don't know what's good or not.

#290 6 years ago

Have fun all owners. Enjoy the ride.

#330 6 years ago
Quoted from taz:

I agree it can go both ways and can see that some people would be motivated to try and pump up value or prices of games they own, but I guess I don't understand the passion of repetitive negative reviews on any game unless they come from someone who bought it and then sold it for a loss, or expects the loss to come soon. There are a few out there in this situation right now, so I can see where they're coming from if they go thread to thread angry. There's one game that I'll call out as sucking in my eyes and that's X-Men. Though I know that many people enjoy it now, I'm still angry about my experiences with the game. I bought it NIB, went through all of the maintenance and code problems and lost money when I sold it. So, I'm passionate about sharing my bad experiences when given the opportunity. I've played a few other games I didn't like very much, or were broken and ate my coins, etc., but I was only out a few coins, so I just don't feel motivated to share those negative stories over and over again. The pain wasn't that great. That's what I'm getting at.

Agree with XMLE although it wasn't horrible, it was just ok. I would still take XMLE but not what they cost new. I think IMO that could be a sore spot with $10K BM66 LE it will (probably) never be worth that money.

Even if it turns out to be great, so is ST or xyz for a lot less.

#343 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Actually more difference than most Stern runs. Topper, armor, auto card, episode/gadget plaque, artwork, back glass.
How about 500 black SM's that have virtually no difference from the red, or Ac/dc for that matter? And yet people keep paying $3k more.
It has a long ways to go but a "collector" is gonna want 1 of 240, or 1 of 80. That's why they blew them out as fast as they did at those ridiculous prices and why the boutique runs will remain very popular.

Glad STLE is the most different LE of all, don't care that they made 800 that's another way to shake out the flippers I was still able to buy an LE 3 months after release at regular dealer price.

Stern went for plan B with BM66, price outrage.

I'll note again I never played BM my only complaint is the ridiculous price. I'm glad so many people like it though.

1 week later
#389 6 years ago

I love this thread, not that I have any opinion one way or the other. But the idea is that *some* people can love a game and *some* people can dislike it or think meh. It doesn't have to be all or none. I mean 'New Direction' or Justin Bieber has a ton of fans and I don't particularly care for their music.

Also, I can change my mind about something. At one time, I thought Metallica music was meh, but now after I got all their back catalogue really appreciate them.

Another thing, I owned XMLE and disliked it (maybe like OP with BM66) so I didn't play it much and I decided to sell it. Anyway when I was waiting for it to sell I figured since I already paid for it and would take a loss, I may as well play it before it goes out the door. After playing it extensively I got into a groove and didn't feel like selling it (at a big loss) so I kept it. I ended up keeping it for ~4 years. Sold it for a loss, but at least I was able to play it, and I still like it *some* just not as much as TWD or SM (which I replaced it with).

IOW a game could be OK (so-so) and you could play it and have a good time, but maybe you'd rather have spent $9-10K or whatever BM66 LE costs on two Stern pro games or two nice older games or maybe a A1 mint HEP restored TZ or TAF or something really special.

Because BM66 LE/SLE has a super-charged price doesn't mean it's bad, just that it gets compared to some very nice pins in the Elite category and some might think for $10-$15K BM66 is more of a money grab than an Elite pin.

#391 6 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Whatever they think of the game, I think pretty much everyone agrees that BM66 pricing is a money grab.

That's my point, if you love Tron you can get an LE with $2000 in options for $10k. And you know it's something special.

To me, BM66 is a regular (good bad or average) pin masquerading as something special.

The price throws everything off kilter.

Can I get a Tron LE + AcDc premium (with options) for $15k that's what I'd ask before I bought a SLE. If yes, then no way in hell would a SLE be worth that since the premium is the same exact thing same 6 (only) color changing inserts. That's a crime when 5 years ago AcDc had 16 color changing inserts.

#397 6 years ago
Quoted from o-din:

marketed to special people.

IMG_3006 (resized).JPGIMG_3006 (resized).JPG

2 weeks later
#406 6 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Allow me to channel my inner Billy Joel...(sorry too lazy to come up with more than one verse and chorus but feel free to contribute)
"Honesty"
If you search for suckers
They aren't hard to find
Just say the letters S.L.E.
But if you look for awesomeness
You might just as well be blind
It's as bad as Arnold playing Mr. Freeze
Honesty...is such an ugly word
But Batman 66 just blows
Make a video...and send Gary 15 grand
Get rewarded with a shiny turd.

imagine this is a piano

#426 6 years ago
1 month later
-3
#570 6 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Shameless and lazy. They recycled the same images AGAIN for the topper and art blades. Most phoned in game Stern has ever done? Yeah, probably.

Unreal, but whoever bought BM66 allowed it to happen.

2 months later
#594 6 years ago
Quoted from Cheese_WizardPQ:

5 months since this post. I would never guess we still be at this beta state today.

Let's be honest, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?

Sterns view, why work on the code when people already paid for it and no take backs. The number of people still willing to buy BM66 is small and Stern is selling SW and developing the next two pins. Lyman is already working on another pin I'm sure.

#597 6 years ago

I've been there with XMLE = $2000 lost but I got to play it for 4 years.

#600 6 years ago

Can buy a TNA + RR Woz for what a BM66 SLE cost originally.

I'm not picking some random cheap games to make an example but two pins that will be fully coded. Incidentally those two pins are my next two buys.

To me BM66 especially the SLE was so overpriced left a bad tast in my mouth.

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