Since May of last year, when the first one came up on Pinside there have been 59 archived ads, and now 7 current ones. That's just the archived ones on Pinside.

Check out the prices people wanted back then versus today.

It looks like a fun pin to me, I'm just saying, see a lot of them for so little delivered.

Btw, congrats to Dani, she kicks the old man's ass doesn't she!

Maybe like XMLE, it's not a game for everyone. Now that people who like the game have them, you'll see the market dry up a little. Same as XMLE, you dont really see a heap of them for sale these days.

That's the trouble with buying a NIB game "unplayed" like XMLE (sold out pretty quickly) and RZ (sold out in a day or two) .. you're always going to have people who buy it who just don't like it. Like the dudes who flicked on BM66 within a week or two, it wasn't their cup of tea, so out it went.

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We don't really discuss price in the thread, as the OP requested we put that aside. However in this case, price. If Stern said it was just a remake of BDK, there is no way they could charge 15k. Nobody would buy it. So it was advertised as a whole new game with the things we loved (crane) and with new Lyman rules. Lyman makes pinheads stand up and notice. Otherwise they would have sold 12 of them.

The game is not a remake. It shares the crane and right side layout. Big deal.

It's absolutely absurd that some want to write this off as TDKVE. As you say, "Wow, just wow."

Got to play this in the dark and was surprised by what seems like a lack of lighting - no spotlights on the center playfield? It really made the majority of the gameplay feel very far away. It felt like I was bowling.

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And RZ has a real backglass!

I am astonished that BM66 and especially the SLE has a translite. That is very poor.

Haven't played BM66 yet so can't comment on gameplay.

As for RZ it is a blast but like other games code is not finished so it will keep getting better.

Yeah and we get info from the coder and he takes suggestions.

I can't praise and commend Spooky enough for their communication.

I would say it's more absurd to not at a minimum consider BM66 a very slightly modified version of TDK. Change one shot to a ramp, make the joker reveal a turn table. That's really all that is different game play wise, everything is else is just cosmetic. The code will eventually separate the play a good amount but at the moment there's not enough code to even do that.

It's a different layout which many people beg for but secretly don't really want. Anytime you have a bunch of people committing to something they haven't played that is a very adult theme and very different I think you will see a lot of people bail quickly. I've had fun everytime I've played RZ and I like it because it's different. Many people are going to think it's to hard and just like with stern a lot of people get frustrated and will not wait for the code to get finished. I would guess that the vast majority of the sales of RZ went to pinsiders as it would have been sold out before others even knew it was happening. I have yet to see a RZ for sale elsewhere that wasn't listed on pinside also. I'm sure several changed hands elsewhere but lets say 280 are delivered and 80 have already been sold. That's still 71% of owners keeping their games. I would say most other games from stern or JJP have a similar track record. A lot of the sales are later NIB games that the buyer is already chasing something new because 14 month was to long to keep their attention span. Lots of new games are coming out and most people can't just keep buying without selling.

I'm not sure Lyman is the only thing keeping stern in business. I would guess looking in that's a no. but I agree scary. But not for me. Scary for stern.

The layout is not the same & neither are the gameplay concepts. Plus, it's Spike 2, BDK was SAM. It's a ground up new game, codewise.

It's less of a remake than The Getaway is or Star Trek is. Those games are, layout wise, more similar to their inspirations than B66 is to TDK. I would say it's a recycled design that has been tweaked, but the code is totally different.

I love different. I'm sure I'd have fun playing RZ, looks cool. I actually like MOST if not all pinball.

RZ sold out right away because people thought they could flip those pins for a profit. When it became clear that wasn't going to happen many people bailed out. No big deal.

That's why i think ALL of these $9-$10k pins will drop as more and more "LE's" hit the market. Boutique runs less so.

I wouldn't go that far, I think it has to do more with the production time took so long a lot of people got to play it more, had opportunities to buy used ones and/or had more time to decide they wanted to spend their money somewhere else on a different game. I love my Spooky pins!!! Plan on getting the next ones as well!

Still have both my Spooky games..................Batman LE, already out the door(although Aerosmith came right back in). I just like new toys, some hold my attention better than others...................................squirrel!

Flipper profit is only one factor for sure

In my case BM66LE was announced and I bailed. I'd love to play one at some point but I'm happy it worked out the way it did

Waiting game seems to hurt all these guys. The way it played out I feel bad for Spooky. I would never hold up or put a deposit down again

Agree in that so many people were expecting to make a quick $1000 on RZ so the market is settling like it always does. I doubt RZ will go down in the next few years as there is a ton more happening on the code.

I reckon RZ will be quite sought after eventually.

The trouble is with all the new shinies due this year, many don't have the patience to wait for finished code.

Lets be honest.... if Magic Girl is worth $25k+ BM66 is easily worth $10k! I'll take my fully functioning pinball machine over a box of lights that looks like a pinball machine any day!

good thinking!

Well, unlike many of TBL early achievers, you can actually go bowling.

Post of the day Odiner!

Another HUGE difference with BM66 and i'm sure with AS now is the new sound system and speakers. MAJOR difference. Can't get that on location.

I just played my Ac/dc and it sounded like garbled shit by comparison.

It's amazing and part of what will make this and future Stern pins immersive and great, along with the LCD.

No you can definitely tell, I've been playing "Sweet Emotion" a lot on location because I like hearing that nice bass rumble.

If I was Lyman, I'd be walking into Gary Stern's office demanding $500K per year as a salary, with bonus. If not, I'd be walking out the door. He's a crucial part of Stern and he's got his hands full trying to code a turd with flippers and coils.

In other words, all of those game suck.

If I was Jack I would offer him 500k a year to go to JJP

That would be money well spent !!!

A game every three years with the all the best programmers in the business makes perfect sense.

You also get code support with extensive new features and light shows for years after release. WoZ is 5 years in and still getting updates.

Don't know why Dwight doesn't get more love. His games seem to ship with nearly complete code. They're complicated yet still accessible rules for non-pinheads...and the games are a hell of a lot of fun. If Lyman did leave, he'd be their best programmer.

Agreed! Cash grabbing Stern releases too many pins per year. Most with incomplete code, poor quality, overloaded programmers and pissed off customers. I'm curious how much longer they'll get away with this shit. Now I have to spend time reinforcing my cabinets before they split. For all Stern has done to save pinball they're doing everything they can to shit on all their past achievements. I love Star Wars and I'm sure it's gonna look sweet when it's revealed. But it'll be made by Stern...easy pass.

You thought those new metal leg protectors were to save your art. They are actually the only thing holding the cabinet together

500K for a pinball programmer

If that's even in the REALM of reality no wonder we're getting fleeced. 1/2 that would shock me. 1/4 I could start to believe.

Now if they add this song it might make it all the more fun to play.

Why doesn't Pfutz get more love? He deserves it.

Just played at Phof. Maybe its me, but the game just didnt have that wow factor to me. Sound and LCD screen were great

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Nothing to tune. It's all software.

I love this thread, not that I have any opinion one way or the other. But the idea is that *some* people can love a game and *some* people can dislike it or think meh. It doesn't have to be all or none. I mean 'New Direction' or Justin Bieber has a ton of fans and I don't particularly care for their music.

Also, I can change my mind about something. At one time, I thought Metallica music was meh, but now after I got all their back catalogue really appreciate them.

Another thing, I owned XMLE and disliked it (maybe like OP with BM66) so I didn't play it much and I decided to sell it. Anyway when I was waiting for it to sell I figured since I already paid for it and would take a loss, I may as well play it before it goes out the door. After playing it extensively I got into a groove and didn't feel like selling it (at a big loss) so I kept it. I ended up keeping it for ~4 years. Sold it for a loss, but at least I was able to play it, and I still like it *some* just not as much as TWD or SM (which I replaced it with).

IOW a game could be OK (so-so) and you could play it and have a good time, but maybe you'd rather have spent $9-10K or whatever BM66 LE costs on two Stern pro games or two nice older games or maybe a A1 mint HEP restored TZ or TAF or something really special.

Because BM66 LE/SLE has a super-charged price doesn't mean it's bad, just that it gets compared to some very nice pins in the Elite category and some might think for $10-$15K BM66 is more of a money grab than an Elite pin.

Whatever they think of the game, I think pretty much everyone agrees that BM66 pricing is a money grab.

That's my point, if you love Tron you can get an LE with $2000 in options for $10k. And you know it's something special.

To me, BM66 is a regular (good bad or average) pin masquerading as something special.

The price throws everything off kilter.

Can I get a Tron LE + AcDc premium (with options) for $15k that's what I'd ask before I bought a SLE. If yes, then no way in hell would a SLE be worth that since the premium is the same exact thing same 6 (only) color changing inserts. That's a crime when 5 years ago AcDc had 16 color changing inserts.

I agree the price is inflated for the premium but I think a portion of the excess cost is due to Kapow needing to get their piece of the pie. Joe Kaminkow is a very sucessful business man and I'm sure he's getting a decent cut of the Batman 66 profits.

Similar to Whoa Nellie where Whiz Bang needed their cut in addition to Stern. Whoa Nellie costs more than an Aerosmith pro but looking at what you get it should cost less. You could argue that the crate vs legs drove the cost up but didnt Pabst Can Crusher have the same cost without the crate?

Pretty fair post...agreed. It seems the flames are dying a bit, and appreciate your "either way" take on the title. I think(hope) the "Elite" tag will fit with BM66LE when it's done, as theme does drive alot of my desire to own a pin or not. Was seriously looking at a BMTDK just before this title was announced as I wanted a BM, so fit perfectly for me. I have some standard "elite" series pins now (TRONLE, TAF, TZ, etc.) but people bag on those too. I also have non "elite" titles which i still enjoy quite a bit (WCS for example). Completely agree with your statement "a super-charged price doesn't mean it's bad". Easily the biggest point of contention.

My BM66LE was 9500, not completely out of line for what they are charging for other LE's (+/- 1500. or so). Never wanted an SLE, as 10k was my justified budget limit on these toys. The theme is spot on for me (WAY more than GB, AM, GOT), and even with "soft" code, still makes me smile when I play it...months later.

Thanks for a rational post in this thread......

The most spot on comment yet about BM66...

Not quite. It's a regular pin MARKETED as something special.

I thought it was marketed to special people.

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Well..it's not like the entire pinside didn't warn buyers about the ridiculousness of this game...video pleads, price and game design. So no tears here.

There is nothing spectacular about the game (other than the price).
What would have been a classy move by Stern would have to release the game as a single model, low cost release as a true celebration (and thank you) for 30 years. A game that everybody could afford and they were all the same.

It's fun, where we're the price police when MM, CC ,MB , were $12,000- $16,000. Now that was a joke. BMLE is a great
change that few own, but many complain about. Now those pins have dropped like a rock. Life is good !