This mostly seems like a thread to bait Iceman out to sputter his barely coherent rants about how awesome a game it is.

I'm lucky to live in an area filled with many pinball collectors so I've had a chance to play both the "Promium" and the LE version of this game. I know the go-to answer for it being a turd is "just wait until Lyman!" but he can't fix the clunky mechanics and terrible shots in software, and I know it's not just the one machine I played since it was the same on both of the ones I've played.

The one positive note is the extra cash for Stern should help pay off the playfield delamination costs. So, thanks?

What? I don't consider LCD the same as PF artwork

I put Jwilson into the jealous hater camp. Expert that Plays a few games at a friends house

And if you played more than a few you must really love it

I need to run get a tissue. You mean people really hurt my feelings

As great as Lyman is, if BM66 only sells let's say Mustang numbers of this pin, how much is going to be invested?

Stern priced this pin not to sell. They cut off half the potential buyers at least. It's a remake of sorts (or a lesser pin) so they already have a tepid pool. I mean it's not a remake of Tron or LotR it's a remake of TDK.

I'm betting Stern will count this pin in the hundreds of sales (not thousands).

I think if it was better received, or gets better in the future and word of mouth gets its rep up, they could prob sell a bunch more Premiums. But, it's most likely at a bit of a sales standstill right now. The most hardcore Batfans prob already bought the LEs and SLEs

I guess fun for me is more defined by layout and rules. The display and art work do help the experience to be more immersive, but I would say music, light show, and, to a lesser extent, call outs do more for me in this regard. See Total Annihilation for an example of this. That said I have not played BM66, but if Lyman can take it and do to it what he did with TWD then it should be a winner. My biggest concern as an owner would be the turntable holding up over time.

It's a good question and one that can probably already be answered. If Lyman wasn't on this game it would be a bust. I'm certain he's coding outside of Stern hours. We haven't seen them offer any extra accessories for the game to purchase which is confirming that they didn't sell as many as hoped. Stern got their money on the sold out SLE's but that's a unique group of buyers with 'coin' Stern should not F*&% over! I'm one of the few hundreds to own the LE... and I likely would have gotten rid of it months ago if it weren't for Lyman. He has a solid track record and one that I can be patient waiting for.

I still am in shock people paid 15 g's for the "Super Limited Edition" version of the game that only had some extra powdercoating and a cheesy topper on it. Gary has to still be laughing his ass off about that one.

When one dude spends thousands of posts defending this game you know it sucks ass.

Batman '66 is terrible, I actually preferred playing WWELE over it when I was at a distributor's party and the two were side by side.

It was Stern's test to see how much they could charge while putting as little money into the game as possible. There are two plastic cutout cats for the Catwoman ramps. We couldn't get plastic figures, metal figures? The Batphone looks like a Happy Meal toy. There is a literal hotwheel car on some standups. Were it not for the crane mech, it would be nearly as cheap in parts as GOT pro, their slimmest and weakest offering since Avatar.

It has a great looking cabinet and PF art, but that is the only thing positive I can say about Batman '66. I'd feel pretty embarrassed about dropping the ludicrous price they're asking for a BM66 and getting so little on the playfield.

Also

We're only in April but I doubt we'll see a more pretentious post for the rest of the year. Please go back to RGP and continue to reminisce about the good old days.

Yeah Dude, that's genius!

sucks so bad there are a couple of dozen for sale in the marketplace. Not! Just one SLE from our buddy Vireland, and his owner won't really sell it

Whoa whoa...let's keep this civil!

In all fairness, what were you expecting? The game's not done yet. You had to know going in that this would take time. Like, maybe even twelve months? Who knows? Maybe longer even.

No guarantees that Lyman will knock every game out of the park, but I have continued faith in his abilities. My top three favourite games of all time are ACDC, Walking Dead, and Metallica. See a commonality there? FYI: all three of those games were pretty much duds when they were first released. They all turned into something great with later-released code. Great as-in best sellers.

Anyone doubting Lyman's ability to eventually make this a great game should install the original code on TWD, then try the new one on the same table. I swear he somehow changed the physics on that game with code alone.

Keep the faith! In Lyman we trust. You couldn't have a better pinball mind working on the case.

Good point regarding TWD that was kind of meh for a long while.

Everyone forgets Met was the same thing.

Not as bad as Batman, IMO...also not as expensive.

Right I just meant in regards to TWD like rai mentioned. Nothing like BM66 agreed

Big problem that, I'm not sure DI is worth the money but it's so much more innovative than BMVE

BM LE = 2 Stern pro pins

BM SLE = 2 Stern LE pins or 3 pro pins for the same money.

BM 66 could have been great but it'd be hard for it to ever live up to the what could have been STLE + Luci or Tron + TWD + Met pro

laughable man

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Stern should give those people a $5,000 credit on their next purchase.

So was AC/DC for a long time

Now I have agreed from day one that this was a big time $$$ grab!

And if Stern didn't do it that way the flipperazzi would have gone to war to gobble up 240 LEs.

Practically did anyhow. And the SLEs blew it out too

So slow your roll and see what happens. If Lyman doesn't make it great I'll donate my pin to charity!!

I take it you never owned Avengers?

Same handful of dopes. Classy M fers.

Maybe I can trade mine for a Big Lejokeski

In BM66's current state, my Hulk LE smokes it.

I'd agree with that but you can't give that POS away. Here comes Lyman!

I think we should call in the Lebowski coder to help out too.

So let's look at this from the perspective of this direct thread for a moment.

I post a direct assessment of the unwillingness for experienced people to provide honest feedback on this website because they end up getting personally attacked and new owners have all the answers which is being echoed well beyond the walls of these forums, which is not just my opinion, and am pleasantly provided this return comment:

"Go back to RGP you crotchety old $#!@."

I really don't care, but as Bill Engvall would say, "Here's your sign."

Tell us what our motivation is again?

We want to help, but some don't want to listen.

Right now for example, DP is a history lesson being relearned in 2017 by new potential owners (and the manufacturer) that did not witness the financial and production problems that occurred with Retro Pinball LLC in 2010, long before the adventures of Zidware and Skit-B, or even first game of JJP (who unfortunately repeatedly some of the same mistakes as well). Not much mention, I can recall recently, but some did actual try in the past.

Wheels of the bus go round and round.

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Let's be honest....

TWDLE ended up being great, I loved it from day one

GBLE is one of the biggest sellers for Stern of all time, i love it

BM66LE will follow through and be great too, it and Woz are my wife's 2 favorite pins, she sucks as a player but who cares

AS is a very cool too

Star Wars will crush it too? Not for me

But good lord, you don't have to buy every pin

And honestly, new pricing sucks

Guess this all depends if the SW SLE is actually WWE VE in disguise.

Stern would have to think....we made $15k per machine for 60's theme, fast and easy turnaround from a previously poor selling game and a man wearing undies over tights leggings.

Sh@$ if SW SLE is a new design the sky is the limit, $20k+ and all sell out! The difference will be if SW plays wells, good toys, nice flow, good code, then it will hold it's value and increase in time.

I don't know what you're looking at, cause the topper looks fuggin awesome in real life. Say what you want about the game, but that's the best topper I've seen.

Two things I've noticed on Pinside in the limited time I've been here:

1) People are extremely concerned with how others spend their money.
2) People like to tell you whether or not you should like a game.

Bizarre, but just something I've noticed here. I'm in the same boat, could care less about Addams Family and other games that we're "supposed" to like, but love others that are supposed to be crap. Being relatively new to owning pins I have to say it's an extremely personal thing where different people look for different things. For some all that matters is the theme, the rules can be incomplete and they won't care. Some demand an art package that strikes a cord with them. Some want deep rules. Some a combination of the above. There's no right or wrong, what one person hates another may love, it is what it is.

Like anything, opinions vary. I own AVLE and once dialed in and settings adjusted, I think it's a great game.

My topper doesn't even work and its the best ever

If TWDLE and GBLE had the LCD then there would no comparison imho

Even still, GBLE might end being one of the greatest selling Stern pins ever and for very good reason, its awesome

Sitting right next to those two the LCD is just so huge and when Lyman does his magic it will be fantastic too

For the haters I paid $7600 for TWDLE, $8,000 for the GBLE and $9600 for BM66LE

By comparison, there isn't $2k difference or even close, still doesn't matter because they sold out instantly and none are for sale

When Star Wars comes out, it will be a totally new pricing F job. So you hypocrites line on up and chant "please take my money"!!!

Yes, the game itself is dog shit but that topper is amazing, and I usually hate toppers. No doubt the game is a looker! It's nice to see Stern finally figured out that looking good sells games.

When i see your current collection of pins i understand your outrage J dub. "Dog shit" isn't something you can honestly spout an opinion for.

Can we please just "be honest" for F's sake

Oh, I didn't realize this was a dick measuring contest.

Calling BM66 "dog shit" is commenting on the game itself, not in context to other games or what you may or may not have in your collection. Personally I prefer a diverse lineup of non-cookie-cutter games and if you go look at my past games, which number in the hundreds, you can see I've had a lot of experience playing many different games over the years. Way more than you. Way, way more - I've been at this for over 20 years.

So, maybe that experience means I have an idea of what plays well and what is a brick-fest clunker, and it has nothing to do with what it costs, although that certainly applies to the "value" proposition it offers.

No just a pin measuring contest and we get it now. Zero credibility

But "dog shit" is something you understand, I'll admit.

Ok, I'll bite.

Here we go. Honesty from a BM66 owner.

The pin is fun to shoot. It's visually stunning, and sounds fantastic... code is repetitive, and just generally not very far along.

However, at this stage in the lifespan of TWD, I regretted purchasing it. I hated the pin. It was not fun to play, and I couldn't imagine that anything Lyman would do codewise would save it... THEN HE DID!!! Holy crap, did he ever?! It's now my absolute favourite pin. The Bloodbath update virtually changed the geometry of the pin. It shifted the focus of your shots entirely. A literal game changer.

For EIGHT MONTHS TWD was a boring and clunky pin, and then Lyman made magic.

Right now, BM66 is still In Utero! Lyman is cooking something up that will likely knock us all out... he always does.

I'm very lucky. I have a great collection, with lots to play and enjoy. The fact that BM66 is super shallow right now is a drag... but I REALLY don't care. Honest!

I firmly believe this game will become amazing. If it doesn't, I'll move the F@%k on, and never give it another thought!

You hide behind some lame smileys, but you're calling AFM and TRON "dog shit"? And then question my credibility?

Really?

Put a few quarters in when its done, or not.

I like pinball and don't think ANY of it is "dog shit" so believe what you want and carry on with the Stern hate!

And now i get the hypocrisy, you have feelings hurt because of your beloved Tron LE? I have no opinion on AFM other than its universally loved. What is YOUR problem?

I think your collection looks awesome jwilson

I don't understand how BM66 is crappy though. 2 smooth orbits, 2 smooth ramp shots, nice wide target shots, and the roving crane toy (which is awesome). Not to mention the spinning mech which has loads of potential (Admittedly underrealized currently!)

I find this pin a lot of fun, and I've owned a lot of games too. I've been playing for 30+ years, and collecting for almost 20.

I wouldn't for a moment say, "Rush out and buy this machine", but I'm really happy I have it. I have confidence it'll end up being great. As I said, I already like it WAY more than I liked early TWD!

If this thread is about being honest, then let's be honest. Nobody knows what this pin will be like a year from now. I think it'll be great. I'm a big fan of Lyman's nuanced approach, and I have every confidence that he will make this game special.

Lighten up boys. We're all on a nerdy pinball forum on a Friday night. NOBODY Here is cool!

Ain't that the truth, "honestly".....

Any and all pinball is a good thing!

The voice of F ing reason is not acceptable on here! WTF

Cut and paste for future reference.

How about we just come together and say we all love some F ing pinball!

Dislike a pin, whatever, we all are in the same F ing boat.

I'm out. Kid volleyball tourney early am

How did I miss another "I hate BM thread" ( think there may have been a new "TRONVE coming" that caught my eye....)

Own a BM66LE...paid $9800.00. Too many pluses for me to pass. Mine came pretty early. Hardware never fell off, but was loose in certain areas ( found during initial clean). Fixed.

In complete honesty- the pin makes me smile every time I turn it on, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. It's just got the perfect mix for me. love the shit out of the game. It's actually refreshing to " finish" the session, understanding the code will improve, as opposed getting my ass handed to me, or long, long ball-times.

I play mine for about an hour, then pick my poison through the rest of the lineup.

Wait until the villain tv on the turntable starts barking at you.....people's opinions will change....

Sorry for the positive post in your thread, but truth, for me...

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Very well said...it's a little too logical though, so suspect it will be shredded in short order.

You are not "supposed" to like anything. Where is this list of games you are supposed to like? I haven't seen it. If you are basing it on ratings, we all know ratings are manipulated bullcrap.

Here is my list of games YOU are supposed to like. 1. The games you enjoy playing. 2. RCT, because when the troll yells "Multiball" I giggle, so because I like it, you are supposed to.

And this is why people working for pinball manufacturers avoid this place like the plague.

Good night and good luck.

Okay to start with,who is the wise guy that first mentioned Kolchak: The Night Stalker ?? That show used to scare the crap out of me when I was a kid! So of course I had to order the whole dvd series off Amazon!! That show was awesome!
(17 bucks - I couldn't pass it up) !
I own an LE. Code is very basic and needs sound bytes badly. I don't play it very much. I just got an Aerosmith LE and the game, since it has much more completed code,is a lot of fun.
I'm not selling. I'll let you know in about 18 months after a lot of code is cranked out.