(Topic ID: 171399)

POLL: BM66 vs Dialed In- Which machine offers more value for $9,000 ?


By kpg

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 145 posts
  • 64 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by KingBW
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Which Machine "Feels" closer to a $9K MSRP?”

  • Batman '66 by Stern 64 votes
    16%
  • Dialed In by JJP 340 votes
    84%

(404 votes)

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There are 145 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 3.
#1 2 years ago

Before voting on the poll, we must assume:

1) Actual "Fun factor" of both BM66 v Dialed In is irrelevant. This is not about which game or theme is more entertaining, as there are many variables. No one has played BM66, and the "fun" aspect of the game varies person to person obviously.

2) This poll is basing the $9,000 price tag on the following:

*Build quality of overall machine
*Playfield artwork, toys, features, etc.
*LCD screen such as size, quality, etc.
*Sound system
*Electronics architecture
*Technology features and innovations
*Code support and development

We all know the prices of New In Box pinball machines have skyrocketed. There is clearly debate about this being a cash grab versus actual innovation and increases of Bill of Materials to the manufacturer.

I am looking to see what people think about Stern and JJP's latest offerings.. IF (and I do mean *IF*) one of these manufacturers were to get your hard-earned $9,000 big ones... which machine, BM66 or Dialed In, seems like you are getting more for your money and a machine that is the closest to that $9K MSRP?

#2 2 years ago

BM66 (resized).jpg

DI (resized).jpg

#3 2 years ago

B66 (resized).jpg

DILE-Left-proxima (resized).png

#4 2 years ago

No value just giant price tag. *shrug*

Little else to say. Nice hanging with you folks for over a decade.

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from Shoot_Again:

No value just giant price tag. *shrug*
Little else to say. Nice hanging with you folks for over a decade.

Trust me, I am not going to argue with anyone about the price tag at all.. not happy where prices have gone myself. But you have to ask, with asking prices so close.. which manufacturer is giving you more for your money though?

#6 2 years ago

Kind of a silly poll, but why not. Bm66 looks beautiful but seems to be just another typical stern but with the long awaited LCD. Regardless of opinion on the name or theme, DI and the other jjp games have offered a higher level in every category. On top of that, DI is offering a unique experience with a whole new level of technology in a pinball and is definitely designed with outside the box thinking. Ultimately I think both games look fun and beautiful, but both over priced. Your specific question has to go to jjp IMO.

#7 2 years ago

Damn... 20 to 0...

Lots of great reviews of Dialed In after people have played it too. I think this could be a big winner for JJP, especially if they decide to come in at a lower price w/ another variation of the machine.

#8 2 years ago

Dialed in for the win, not to mention that BM66 is actually has a higher MSRP than Dialed in and don't get me going on the SLE.

#9 2 years ago

If I had to choose ( or if I could afford to choose) and ignoring theme, the Dialed In seems more innovative and interesting to me than the BM66.

18
#10 2 years ago

Neither wins in my book since neither is even close to worth that much for me.

#11 2 years ago

BM66 looks great but it is kind of BTDK VE with a color screen and Lyman on the code. That is good but not 9k good.

DI is a completely new experience but for the money will be playing it on location...

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

Neither wins in my book since neither is even close to worth that much for me.

If both were priced at $7500 delivered to your door.. which would be the most "bang for your buck" ?

#13 2 years ago

wouldnt buy either at 9k but Dialed In wins this poll for me by 1000 miles

#14 2 years ago

Neither. No machine whose BOM is no where near 9000 is worth it.

#15 2 years ago

I assume you're using a B66 Premium but doesn't that game have a cheaper MSRP at $8600. Sterns also enjoy a greater reduction when you buy them from some distributors. I've heard some say final price of $7800. Compare that to DI's $9k plus $500 shipping

The B66LE might be a closer comparison price wise. I don't think they enjoy as much of a distributor discount or even one at all.

#16 2 years ago

Street price of Batman 66 Premium is around $7500 shipped.

Hopefully JJP can come close to that price or even match it with the announcement of a Standard Edition of Dialed In.

#17 2 years ago

Dialed In by a mile. Far more features, tech, better quality, better LCD animations and I'm sure code support.

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Dialed In by a mile. Far more features, tech, better quality, better LCD animations and I'm sure code support.

With Lyman doing code I'm interested to see what he comes up with. Does he work on animations as well or is there another person for that?

#19 2 years ago

No contest. I love me some Batman, but Dialed-in smokes BM66's empty playfield.

13
#20 2 years ago

No offence but this is stupid, value of what? the parts, the labor? you have to include the theme because even if one has better over all value in terms of product doesn't mean its worth more to me, 10x better chance of me owning BM66 over a pin with a cell phone on the playfield and selfie's being taken during gameplay who cares which one has more stuff and then uses that as a method to decide what to buy?

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

No offence but this is stupid, value of what? the parts, the labor? you have to include the theme because even if one has better over all value in terms of product doesn't mean its worth more to me, 10x better chance of me owning BM66 over a pin with a cell phone on the playfield and selfie's being taken during gameplay who cares which one has more stuff and then uses that as a method to decide what to buy?

I think a lot of people care about they get for their money, and the quality of the parts and components. That matters when converting cash to a tangible asset, at least to me.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

No offence but this is stupid, value of what? the parts, the labor? you have to include the theme because even if one has better over all value in terms of product doesn't mean its worth more to me, 10x better chance of me owning BM66 over a pin with a cell phone on the playfield and selfie's being taken during gameplay who cares which one has more stuff and then uses that as a method to decide what to buy?

So I assume you are one of the 5% that prefers a game with less features and singing Batman da na na na na na na na Batman over and over. JJP is not stupid, they will change the name of the pin and it's not about a cell phone but a city having several disasters.

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

If both were priced at $7500 delivered to your door.. which would be the most "bang for your buck" ?

In that case I'd say Dialed In. I really don't care for the look of it or how it sounds though.

12
#24 2 years ago

Personal feelings about art and themes aside...Dialed In wins. There's just more "stuff"....invisiglass, giant LCD, cell phone LCD, hologram LCD, camera, bluetooth, improved sound system, headphone jack, tons of magnets, moving/interactive character toys.

Thing is with pinball - "stuff" and "tech" don't matter to the average customer.... "Is this cool?" "Do I want this in my house?" "Is this fun?" wins and makes people purchase. There's a reason no one is talking about P3 (packed with tech and stuff) but everyone wanted Iron Man (almost zero stuff, tons of fun and cool). So, while Dialed in looks to have more stuff...Batman looks more cool - and cool has value.

12
#25 2 years ago

For me the biggest ding against Batman just from a "value" standpoint is the big toy (crane) is a reuse. It's like if Dialed In had an upper playfield with a spinning power company building or something.

I don't actually understand why Stern went that route. New art, new spinning toy, new code from Lyman, expensive price tag, reused toy and half a playfield from a game that no one was clambering for a remake of.

If it was just a clever VE then okay, but Lyman doing new code wipes that notion out. So why not finish the job and make a totally new game?

Dialed In is at least totally original from top to bottom. I'm not buying either, no value for that cash in my book in either game at that price, but if they dropped down Dialed In is the one I'd be interested in because it's new and different.

I thought Batman looked really nice, not trying to trash it at all, just to be clear. Just struck me as an odd decision.

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

For me the biggest ding against Batman is the big toy is a reuse. It's like if Dialed In had an upper playfield with a spinning power company building or something.
I don't actually understand why Stern went that route. New art, new spinning toy, new code from Lyman, expensive price tag, reused toy and half a playfield from a game that no one was clambering for a remake of.\
If it was just a clever VE then okay, but Lyman doing new code wipes that notion out. So why not finish the job and make a totally new game?

As someone who had BDK and got rid of it....I still really love that crane toy. It's super super fun! So, I like the idea of a better game with this toy included....but yeah, considering it has reused elements, the budget for the game HAS to be lower than usual. Even with the new LCD - it's all existing footage, and a lot of the animation FX are probably from the slot machine. So...yeah, I think if the price was lower to reflect all this, there'd be less need to critique.

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

For me the biggest ding against Batman is the big toy is a reuse. It's like if Dialed In had an upper playfield with a spinning power company building or something.
I don't actually understand why Stern went that route. New art, new spinning toy, new code from Lyman, expensive price tag, reused toy and half a playfield from a game that no one was clambering for a remake of.\
If it was just a clever VE then okay, but Lyman doing new code wipes that notion out. So why not finish the job and make a totally new game?
Dialed In is at least totally original from top to bottom. I'm not buying either, no value for that cash in my book in either game at that price, but if they dropped down Dialed In is the one I'd be interested in because it's new and different.

Do you think it could have been because Gomez insisted to head the project? He stated he's a big fan of the show but also said he doesn't have a lot of time to devote to game design. Maybe this was a quick and easy way for him to be a part of the design of a theme he loves.

While it is disappointing it's mostly a reused layout, I could see how the adjustments, new theme and code could make a better game. We've seen rethemes be better than the original before (Iron Man) but it better not be a carbon copy of modes and code (Spider-Man VE).

#28 2 years ago

Dialed In wins this by a mile. Heck, Ghostbusters has more going on than Batman does by a wide margin.

There nothing in Batman to justify the price. Not even close.

#29 2 years ago

Dialed In absolutely smokes all versions of BM66.

However, in terms of aesthetics, the BM66SLE is number one in my book. That is one gorgeous machine. I am not as enthralled with the standard LE or Premium.

16
#30 2 years ago

Dialed in gets my vote. Neither gets my money. No Effing way. Get real with the prices people.

#31 2 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

Do you think it could have been because Gomez insisted to head the project? He stated he's a big fan of the show but also said he doesn't have a lot of time to devote to game design. Maybe this was a quick and easy way for him to be a part of the design of a theme he loves.

That's a pretty solid theory.

I dunno, it's not a big deal, as Rarehero said it's a cool toy, but if we're talking value it seems part of the equation.

For me they're all one thing: too damn expensive. Somehow Andrew is able to sell Alien for under $6500, and it's got an LCD screen, 3 magnets, tons of custom sculpted toys, 4 flippers, rotating motor, a physical ball lock, full RGB lighting including new fancy GI lights, etc. It's far from stripped down.

I'm just the art guy, I don't know about his costs, the real BOM, and maybe you don't even like Alien. And I'm grateful honestly that these other companies are charging so much, it seems to be driving customers to the game I worked on!

But after I'm done with Alien I'm just another player and collector, back in the market like everyone else, and I'd like to be able to buy the cool new games. And I can't F with these $8k and up prices for a pin, I just can't.

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

For me they're all one thing: too damn expensive. Somehow Andrew is able to sell Alien for under $6500,

To be fair, he game and price was announced years ago....had there been no announcement back then and he was announcing this year, would the price still be that low?

#33 2 years ago

Batman's just taking advantage of people with nostalgia and the lcd it's basically tdk 2.0 a lot less development went into it the dialed in. GB at least had some innovative features mag slings rock.

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

To be fair, he game and price was announced years ago....had there been no announcement back then and he was announcing this year, would the price still be that low?

Yeah, who knows. I mean, it's capitalism, charge what you think the market will bear I guess. But Heighway is a startup and hungry for sales, charging less is the smart play IMHO, not getting into the "how much blood can we squeeze from this stone?" contest.

Stern vs JJP just seemed to egg each other on to charge more, maybe more players will introduce actual competition for sales.

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from Flato:

GB at least had some innovative features mag slings rock.

I would agree there. Like Gomez says, what matters is under the glass.

#36 2 years ago
Quoted from SuperPinball:

JJP will change the name of the pin. It's not about a cell phone but a city having several disasters.

I really liked the playfield layout and toys and the use of the display in the backbox (keeping the image big instead of dividing the screen into smaller quadrants like WoZ and Hobbit). But the cabinet and playfield art are uninspired. A name change and new artwork would improve its visual appeal, but I don't see that happening. Keeping everything a secret before the reveal the way they did eliminated the chance for public feedback to influence those design elements.

Quoted from Mike_J:

In terms of aesthetics the BM66SLE is number one in my book. That is one gorgeous machine.

It does look absolutely sensational (especially the SLE's embossed cabinet art). And while it is way too pricey for me, I heard at Expo that the SLE is sold out with a waiting list (for if anyone backs out).

#37 2 years ago

We've all been saying this for a couple of years now, if the price of new games go north of 8 - 8.5k, the majority of buyers are going to start talking with their wallets regardless of how good a game is. If the bom of 9k+ is truly needed to support these new games, then the industry is going to be in trouble.
For this thread, DI has more going for it than BM66.

#38 2 years ago

I didn't see a voting button for 18 EMs...

#39 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

That's a pretty solid theory.
I dunno, it's not a big deal, as Rarehero said it's a cool toy, but if we're talking value it seems part of the equation.
For me they're all one thing: too damn expensive. Somehow Andrew is able to sell Alien for under $6500, and it's got an LCD screen, 3 magnets, tons of custom sculpted toys, 4 flippers, rotating motor, a physical ball lock, full RGB lighting including new fancy GI lights, etc. It's far from stripped down.
I'm just the art guy, I don't know about his costs, the real BOM, and maybe you don't even like Alien. And I'm grateful honestly that these other companies are charging so much, it seems to be driving customers to the game I worked on!
But after I'm done with Alien I'm just another player and collector, back in the market like everyone else, and I'd like to be able to buy the cool new games. And I can't F with these $8k and up prices for a pin, I just can't.

I have to admit, Alien looks better and better by the day - and a lot of it has to do with cost. I think Heighway is right where they need to be to succeed, and who knows.. I might end up ordering an Alien.

#40 2 years ago

Dialed In!

I may get both if I can swing it.

#41 2 years ago

Not really close imo jjp pins always offer the best quality and features compared to other companies.

#42 2 years ago

I would not value either of those pins at the current price tag. I'll likely spend my money elsewhere.

While I support JJP's efforts and innovation, there's flat-out no chance I'd spend that much on a game. No fence sitting, no teetering on the edge, or hemming and hawing--it's simply a considerable amount money to consider spending on just one game.

Stern & JJP are leaving money on the table by not offering something at a price point that the market is demanding.

#43 2 years ago

What are the differences between Alien and Alien LE?

#44 2 years ago

Not close in my opinion. Dialed In is not what I was hoping for theme wise but the game itself looks pretty dang good. The people that can afford it are going to like it. BM66 will be a good fun game but not really different from any other stern and about 60% of it is not even a new design. It would be like JJP removing the left upper playfield from WOZ and making 2 ramps instead. Change the art package and charge 24K for it. I don't think anyone was surprised by the JJP price, it's what I expected even though I'm not happy about it. Stern's price increase is just a huge money grab. I can't help but feel like all of the BM66 SLE and LE buyers are paying for all of the LCD development and for all of the playfield issues.

#45 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

To be fair, he game and price was announced years ago....had there been no announcement back then and he was announcing this year, would the price still be that low?

Regardless, it is a low price for a beloved theme by many. What Andrew has going for him that the others don't is the modular aspect. Once Heighway gets Alien pins in pinhead homes what's next? New themes via playfield swap outs at a much lower cost vs a whole new pin.

Clearly as people become more fed up with rising prices many are going to realize they could have a "new" pin for much less and they can still swap back to their older themes in under 5 minutes to still enjoy a nice variety.

On topic, DI wins value wise, BM66 wins theme wise. Still at a ridiculous price point but I guess it depends on what kind of consumer is comparing the 2 games to each other.

Some people are going to value the Nostalgia Factor over the Value Factor in this case.

#46 2 years ago
Quoted from Yipykya:

Regardless, it is a low price for a beloved theme by many. What Andrew has going for him that the others don't is the modular aspect. Once Heighway gets Alien pins in pinhead homes what's next? New themes via playfield swap outs at a much lower cost.
Clearly as people become more fed up with rising prices many are going to realize they could have a "new" pin for much less and they can still swap back to their older themes in under 5 minutes to still enjoy a nice variety.

Yeah, I think the swap idea was always a great idea for home buyers who didn't want to take up more space with games....and now that we're in this insane price climate, I think the kit concept is REALLY going to work to Heighway's advantage....pinheads fed up with the Stern/JJP price wars are going to be able to get some really cool new games for "cheap", as long as they don't mind swapping & storing.

#47 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

as long as they don't mind swapping & storing.

Yeah, swapping and storing doesn't sound appealing but doing it in front of guests and letting them participate in the switcharoo has a certain "Show Off Cool Factor" to it though.

#48 2 years ago

Theme aside, JJP has a better overall build quality, and better customer service in my opinion. I love the BM66 theme, I just wish Jack was making it.

#49 2 years ago
Quoted from DCFAN:

What are the differences between Alien and Alien LE?

Art, armor, and it comes with all the goodies like the beacons, the lit blades, the fiberoptic lights. Gameplay exactly the same.

#50 2 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Art, armor, and it comes with all the goodies like the beacons, the lit blades, the fiberoptic lights. Gameplay exactly the same.

... and shaker motor.

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