Hey Gents,

New to the club... just picked up a Blackout for 400 bucks. Playfield is pretty bad, missing inches of paint in multiple areas... so I have no problems taking a stab at re-painting it. But the real issue is it's also not booting.

GI comes on and the MPU LEDs will occasionally flash once then go out (seems like that means the MPU booted at least), but intermittently they do almost every other possible combination. Usually they come on and stay on. It will not go into attract mode and I can't get into a test mode either. When it seems to boot cleanly, it says "mission complete" and plays a long set of decending 'bloop' tones. Nothing on the displays ever, the main display board is getting power at least to its connector, havent tried testing on the board yet...

It did fire up attract mode once, only once. I few times the resistors on the driver board got way hot (getting parts to upgrade them) but now that doesn't even happen. Power is getting to the Driver board, but I assume it isn't working because those resistors don't heat up at all anymore.

Also, I know for a fact one of the flipper ROMs was installed upsidedown... Is it fried for sure or could it still work? The 2nd Flipper ROM gets too hot to touch if I leave the game up for a while... What would cause this? assuming its not normal... and is that one likely fried too? the Game ROM chip has pretty oxidized legs... so I'm thinkin' maybe the ROMS are my problem? Would bad roms make it not start attract mode? Should I start with a new set of ROMs?

Open to ideas on where to continue trouble shooting....

Anyone on here sell reliable Blackout ROMs? Interested in the divided by 10 score one if its around...

Update on the Blackout that I'm struggling to get into attract mode: I'm pretty new to the hobby, but not entirely clueless... I've spent a good bit of time reading the various troubleshooting guides for Williams sys3-7 and I'm not getting anywhere, so asking for some help...

This blackout is a bit Frankensteined; its got a system 4 MPU and the power supply from one of the games that still had the -300v line for priming the displays. My understanding is that that shouldn't matter, but it has made things more than a bit confusing having to look at 3 different sets of schematics and trying to cross reference everything and make sure that the PS is sending out the voltages that the other boards actually want to see.

So I've double checked all that and it all looks good from what I can tell.

Weird stuff: The Solenoid line from the transformer to the PS reads 40v (it should be 28 according to the schematic). The guy who owned it before me said he was always blowing the 2.5A solenoid fuses.... Seems like this may be why, right?

Q1: why is that high?
Q2: is it a problem
Q3: how do I get it down to 28v?

The +16v Lamp lines are also a bit high. They test at 20v... That doesn't seem like a big deal, but I thought I'd mention it.

The Bridge rectifiers that feed these lines test at 15VAC and 29VAC. The schematics want them at 13.5 and 25.5.

Q4: are those within normal tolerances? Or do I need to look into this...

Things I've tried: All voltages powering the boards look good (haven't tested anything beyond power getting to the boards, don't know how!)

I toasted a ROM, so I got new ones and replaced the SCANBE sockets with machined pin ones, Same for the two 6810 RAM chips. I tried that because I was getting the 'lower LED stays on' error code pretty consistently and I read that meant there was a read/write error on those chips... Having replaced the chips and sockets i still get the same error. So...

Q5: What else could cause that error? Or what else should I be looking at?

I haven't done the 40 pin interconnect yet, but it tests good on all pins for continuity. I have parts to replace it in the mail...

Q6: is there any way it could pass continuity testing across the pins and still be causing problems?

Q7: How to I go about isolating the problem that is keeping the machine from booting into attract mode?

Thanks very much for any help you can offer!

Schwaggs, thanks for the detailed responses. They are really quite helpful.

Update: I replaced sockets on the MPU and one other tiny IC on the bottom right. I replaced M and F sides of the 40 Pin Interconnect. It still won't boot (rather, it seems to boot fine, but doesn't start attract mode and gives the Bottom LED error when you hit the test button), it behaves exactly the same as before (except the random voice call outs on boot don't happen anymore, I assume that's unrelated, mentioning it in case I'm wrong and the sound going out is a clue...).

Next guesses: IC14 (the game rom on the right) is a different white colored socket. Its not scanbe. It grips the legs well. Continuity into the board is fine.

Q1: Do I need to suspect this socket or is there something else to check first? There is also a socket someone replaced before me... the soldering isn't great, but it continuity tests fine and looks good as far as I can tell.

Also, the PIA in IC10 (looks like for the lamp matrix) on the driverboard had a machine pin socket replacement, but the chip was pretty lose in it. As in, falling out of the board when pointed down... I bent the legs out a touch and it is seated much better now.

Q2: Do I need to go ahead and replace this? Or are the legs on the chip the problem?
Q3: Could a bad connection on this chip keep the game from booting to attract mode? (doesn't seem likely to me, but I don't actually know...)

I think those are the only things I can think of that remain potentially suspect...

Q4: What else can I be looking at or testing to find out why I can't get to attract mode?

Thanks guys.

Thanks for the kind words and the quick response! I was pretty bummed when the 40 pin didn't get it booting... nice to hear I'm not totally off the track.

The ROM sockets have been replaced. Two by me just now and the white one was put in when the board was converted from system 4 to run system 6 by adding the IC14 socket, so its presumably not quite as old. We seem to be in agreement that is is a lower priority, but might be an issue.

For clarity: The loose chip is IC10 on the *driver board* labeled PIA III Lamp Matrix. You mentioned 'display PIA', thats IC 18 on the MPU it looks like (this one is not socketed on my board)... Could a poorly seated chip on the *driver* board cause boot issues? Or can I leave that to check out when I get the game started and can see what the lamp matrix is doing?

The chip on the driver board seems well seated now (after I tweaked the legs wider). Should I still look at replacing it? It is a machine pin strip type socket, do those wear out? Seems like the legs on the chip would deform first... in which case replacing the chip might make more sense.

Displays: The player 1 and ball in play displays flash a 0 for half a second when I flip the power. There does appear to be an orange dot on the player 2 display, not on the others.

Thanks for the voltage warning, I got friendly with a 100v line the other week, not excited to try 150...

Great. Will replace and report back. Thanks!

Replaced IC10 Socket, no change.

Anything else I should try now?

I feel like I should just get a logic probe and learn how to use it (and read schematics better) and actually isolate what component is not functioning. I'm getting tired of guessing wrong... Thoughts?

Great idea, thanks.

Here's the new thread: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/help-blackout-wont-boot-learn-to-logic-probe#post-4323602

Hope you have time to chime in!

Well... the 40 pin was the problem. That and the bad game rom they sent me that had me chasing ghosts for a while. Anyways it works now, still one issue with flipper power:

I rebuilt the flippers completely, new Eos switches, new cabinet switches, brackets, stops, coils, mechs, bats, rubbers and they still seem weak to me. It’s really tough to line up an orbit shot right.

There is a black out on location here that is super snappy, you can backhand the upper 3 bank from the right flipper. On mine there is no chance of that, you can only get 75% of the way up the field at that angle. Is the machine on location overpowered with stronger solenoids, I like the way it plays better...

I’ll also try the return spring mod, seems like a good idea..

There is a ball hop issue in that side that may be contributing. Also, I think there are a few more pinned connections in the flipper circuit that I can check for solid contact, but after that I’m out of ideas.

Looking for hints and confirmation that some mystery factor is actually robbing some of the flipper power.

Icebox in Ballard (seattle)

https://www.facebook.com/615bright/

I’ve messed with the eos switches a bit. I’m pretty sure they’re right. I even tried jumper in them with alligator clips and didn’t see significant change. But I will check them again as I value your advice and may have missed something.