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(Topic ID: 167469)

Blackout Club... (Fans Welcome)


By mof

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 782 posts
  • 105 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 43 days ago by Graysonsdad
  • Topic is favorited by 67 Pinsiders

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There are 782 posts in this topic. You are on page 15 of 16.
#701 3 months ago

All this Blackout chatter has me thinking. Perhaps it is time to finally sell mine. I've had my fun with it over the last 5 years, but I would hate to see it go.

Glad to see they are making hardtops fort now.

#703 3 months ago

New-ish member of the Blackout club. After some play, discovered that the row wire had come unattached from one of my coin mech switches, and would occasionally cause faulty switch readings further down the column. In order to bypass the problem for the time being, I removed the coin mechs and switches from the coin door, which allows the other switches in that row to work as expected (although the first column is now disabled, so no tilt sensors at the moment). Upon closer inspection, one of the trip wires for the coin switches was hopelessly mangled as well. The original leaf switches work fine, but the wire that detects the insertion of a quarter does not. Does anyone sell replacements for that part, or, alternatively, has anyone replaced their stock coin switches with newer microswitches?

MVIMG_20200605_212940 (resized).jpg

#704 3 months ago
Quoted from enjoymoreradio:

New-ish member of the Blackout club. After some play, discovered that the row wire had come unattached from one of my coin mech switches, and would occasionally cause faulty switch readings further down the column. In order to bypass the problem for the time being, I removed the coin mechs and switches from the coin door, which allows the other switches in that row to work as expected (although the first column is now disabled, so no tilt sensors at the moment). Upon closer inspection, one of the trip wires for the coin switches was hopelessly mangled as well. The original leaf switches work fine, but the wire that detects the insertion of a quarter does not. Does anyone sell replacements for that part, or, alternatively, has anyone replaced their stock coin switches with newer microswitches?
[quoted image]

Have you tried to just put it on free play? I believe Marcos sells coin mech.

#705 3 months ago

It's on free play, but I'd still prefer to get the coin slots working, just for the sake of completeness.

#706 3 months ago
Quoted from enjoymoreradio:

It's on free play, but I'd still prefer to get the coin slots working, just for the sake of completeness.

Take the switch out of circuit if it's in question. That way it won't cause problems in the column. You can usually manually adjust the wires and switch to get it to perform.

#707 3 months ago
Quoted from danczaz:

Look what was posted today! And in case you haven’t figured it out it was me doing the prototype with Outside Edge! It is gorgeous!!!
[quoted image]

Getting closer!!!

50128C77-04B5-4193-B487-66F07A1886AD (resized).jpeg60F0EB56-E328-476E-965C-4427EF3C9837 (resized).jpeg83671938-505C-4ADD-9FE1-4C606F4B9FD2 (resized).jpegE476EF1A-4E5E-4AC1-BDB0-F01FC18587F9 (resized).jpeg641EB440-3A00-425D-AD72-E3DCBCDBC2B5 (resized).jpegBF6C80B6-2C45-4DD6-83BB-FF365AADAE39 (resized).jpeg
#708 3 months ago

I like the lit caps.

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#709 3 months ago
Quoted from danczaz:

Getting closer!!![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Maybe this is well-known and I'm in the slow lane but I think your earplug idea is super-innovative.

#710 3 months ago
Quoted from danczaz:

Getting closer!!![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Looking great! Agree on the ear plug compliment, great idea!

What levels of sandpaper grit did you use? What was your final grit before clear? Did you sand the inserts with a smoother grit?

What did you use for clear?

#711 3 months ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

Maybe this is well-known and I'm in the slow lane but I think your earplug idea is super-innovative.

Ear plug idea I got from video that outside edge shared on the FB page (3 part YouTube video)

#712 3 months ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Looking great! Agree on the ear plug compliment, great idea!
What levels of sandpaper grit did you use? What was your final grit before clear? Did you sand the inserts with a smoother grit?
What did you use for clear?

I believe it was 80 and then 220 for the sandpaper... a local pinsider I’ve known for a while has a body shop and he did the clear for me... he’s got his own technique And recipes from over the years so I’m not sure really he used... It wasn’t out of a rattle can

#713 3 months ago

I’ll be putting on the hardtop Saturday Evening once the clear is done curing.

#714 3 months ago

Hard to beat these 2 together. Had some great games tonight.

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#715 3 months ago

Sucks that they turned out sideways, haha!

#716 3 months ago

Looking for a third game, that'll fit nicely next to them. Any suggestions? I'm thinking Barracora or Space Station. Not interested in Black Knight

#717 3 months ago
Quoted from trk12fire:

Looking for a third game, that'll fit nicely next to them. Any suggestions? I'm thinking Barracora or Space Station. Not interested in Black Knight

Meteor goes along with the theme and has 15 drop targets. Fun game.

#718 3 months ago
Quoted from trk12fire:

Looking for a third game, that'll fit nicely next to them. Any suggestions? I'm thinking Barracora or Space Station. Not interested in Black Knight

Keep it space themed
Id go Space Shuttle, Pinbot or Comic Gunfight (ive heard there is a new code being released to fix the one shot gameplay) but thats just me.

#719 3 months ago

From Outside Edge FB

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#720 3 months ago

I have a blackout purchased in October. It's on free play and about 1/4 of the time I hit the start button it activates a 2 player game. Anyone else have this issue? My tech said it's a know grounding issue but I can't find any posts about it. Thanks

#721 3 months ago

I can’t recall where I read it but it is a known issue. If you clean the switch contacts for the start button it may help.

#722 3 months ago
Quoted from Matthew2000tx:

I have a blackout purchased in October. It's on free play and about 1/4 of the time I hit the start button it activates a 2 player game. Anyone else have this issue? My tech said it's a know grounding issue but I can't find any posts about it. Thanks

Its a common issue with all Williams games from this era but it is fixable.

With the game off, clean the contacts of the start switch by pulling a piece of paper through the contacts as you gently press them together. Repeat until the contacts are no longer leaving a mark on the paper.

Gap the switch so there is about 1/16" of a gap at rest.

#723 3 months ago

My "condition yellow" drop targets do not consistently register (and announce) or reset on the same ball periodically.
This happens once every two or three games. Makes it tough to get Blackout...
They function and seem pretty clean.
They will reset after a drain.
They will reset if I gently touch them.
They will not reset if the ball bashes into the rubber when they are already down.

I feel like this is some tweak or small adjustment that needs to occur...any hints as to where to start?

#724 3 months ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

My "condition yellow" drop targets do not consistently register (and announce) or reset on the same ball periodically.
This happens once every two or three games. Makes it tough to get Blackout...
They function and seem pretty clean.
They will reset after a drain.
They will reset if I gently touch them.
They will not reset if the ball bashes into the rubber when they are already down.
I feel like this is some tweak or small adjustment that needs to occur...any hints as to where to start?

Are you sure the contacts on the back of the drop targets are making? Williams drop targets are notorious for those kinds of things. Simple thing to check that and clean and adjust as needed.

#725 3 months ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

I feel like this is some tweak or small adjustment that needs to occur...any hints as to where to start?

As Stashyboy said this can be a problem with the horseshoe contacts on the drop targets. It can also be a wire broken off the drop target boards.

On the back of the drop target assembly, there are boards with switch matrix wires connected. Carefully inspect the wires and jumpers for a disconnected wire. Not uncommon for one to be broken off the board. Gently pull on each one to ensure they are connected on both ends. Sometime it's hard to tell if they are all connected just by looking at them. There are a lot of wires there.

If not a broken wire, you have a contact problem. The contacts can be tricky to get adjusted properly and sometimes are broken. Problem is that it is a bit of a project to get to them to clean or make adjustments. You need to remove the boards off the back of the drop target mech or remove the entire assembly. Good news is you can still purchase replacement parts:

https://www.pinballlife.com/drop-target-horseshoe-wiper-contact-blade-right.html

That page shows an example horseshoe contact and what the board looks like.

Take lots of pictures of the wiring on these boards before you get started. They can come lose when you are working on the boards and having pictures of where they go can be immensely helpful.

#726 3 months ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

As Stashyboy said this can be a problem with the horseshoe contacts on the drop targets. It can also be a wire broken off the drop target boards.
On the back of the drop target assembly, there are boards with switch matrix wires connected. Carefully inspect the wires and jumpers for a disconnected wire. Not uncommon for one to be broken off the board. Gently pull on each one to ensure they are connected on both ends. Sometime it's hard to tell if they are all connected just by looking at them. There are a lot of wires there.
If not a broken wire, you have a contact problem. The contacts can be tricky to get adjusted properly and sometimes are broken. Problem is that it is a bit of a project to get to them to clean or make adjustments. You need to remove the boards off the back of the drop target mech or remove the entire assembly. Good news is you can still purchase replacement parts:
https://www.pinballlife.com/drop-target-horseshoe-wiper-contact-blade-right.html
That page shows an example horseshoe contact and what the board looks like.
Take lots of pictures of the wiring on these boards before you get started. They can come lose when you are working on the boards and having pictures of where they go can be immensely helpful.

Is there a decent Williams-centric video focusing on servicing/rebuilding/troubleshooting drop targets that you're aware of?

Also, I think that another Pinball Life order is in the works...is there anything else that would be good to have on hand? A tool? Specialized contact cleaner? Other parts? (I've never worked on drop targets before...and I have a classic Stern--and maybe a classic Bally--both with loads of drop targets coming soon).

#727 3 months ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

Is there a decent Williams-centric video focusing on servicing/rebuilding/troubleshooting drop targets that you're aware of?

Also, I think that another Pinball Life order is in the works...is there anything else that would be good to have on hand? A tool? Specialized contact cleaner? Other parts? (I've never worked on drop targets before...and I have a classic Stern--and maybe a classic Bally--both with loads of drop targets coming soon).

A quick search on youtube showed a couple of examples of Williams drop target repairs:


I didn't watch all of them, just a couple of seconds.

When I fix them, I usually replace the horseshoes at least. But the last time I did a Blackout, I went ahead and replaced the horseshoes and the circuit board on both of them.

#728 3 months ago

My newly designed Blackout apron cards are now available for purchase. The price is $10 per pair including US postage, so please PM me if interested. You can see the cards here along with my other designs.

http://aproncards.com

#729 3 months ago

Hardtop underway.

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#730 3 months ago
Quoted from Clytor:

Hardtop underway.
[quoted image]

Nice, did you sand everything first, adjust inserts or just stick it over the top?

#731 3 months ago

trk12fire I sanded all of the art off and replaced all of the inserts. You don't have to replace your inserts, just polish them to your liking and make sure none of them sit above the surface of the playfield.

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#732 3 months ago

Thank you, I’ll be doing this soon.

#733 3 months ago

Today I bought a Blackout. I almost never wind up upside down on a pin purchase, but this one will have me upside down, right out of the gate. I bought it from out of state, as a working pin in descent shape. The Play field is garbage. The back glass has a lot more damage than was disclosed and the freshly repaired boards.... Oh yea, those are not doing so well. It boots into Audit mode more often than not, likely a battery pack issue. But it also just shuts down after a few minutes. Turns off everything but the GI. And the cab is damaged on the head and will require fiberglass.

Sadly, I paid WAAAAY too much for a pin in this condition. It is my own fault. I agreed to buy it So my question is this... What would one of these bring, with a hardtop, repaired and repainted case and working properly? Because by the time I am done, no labor involved.. I will be in it for at least $1900 and I am not sure I am going to like it enough to be a keeper. Ordinarily, I would have paid maybe 300-500 for a pin in this shape.

#734 3 months ago

Idk about down there and its hard to say how much a Hardtop will increase the value since they are just hitting the market but up.here Blackout is Gorgar level cheap. Under 2k Cdn EVERYTIME. Most expensive Blackout 8ve seen was sold for $1,800cdn. Id imagine a beaty Hardtopped Blackout could fetch closer to $2,500cdn if it ALSO had a repro backglass. This isnt a desirable imvestment pin. Its a labour of love pin. If you dont think you will enjoy it, i would skip all the work, costs and headaches.

#735 3 months ago

Now with connectors on the drop target assys. Oooh...ahhh

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#736 3 months ago

I've talked to several people about their Blackouts.
Everyone is underwater on this title.
I've only seen one that is nice and original with a great backglass.
All of the others have hacked wiring, cupped inserts, poor condition playfields...you name it.

At the end of the day something is going to change about this title, either the price will need to go up to cover the parts that people put into them or they simply won't put the parts into them.

I'm curious about the hardtop and how that will impact prices.
As I understand it, many project machines are underway or will be soon.
It will be interested to see at what price range they are listed.

#737 3 months ago
Quoted from ss-pinball:

I've talked to several people about their Blackouts.
Everyone is underwater on this title.
I've only seen one that is nice and original with a great backglass.
All of the others have hacked wiring, cupped inserts, poor condition playfields...you name it.
At the end of the day something is going to change about this title, either the price will need to go up to cover the parts that people put into them or they simply won't put the parts into them.
I'm curious about the hardtop and how that will impact prices.
As I understand it, many project machines are underway or will be soon.
It will be interested to see at what price range they are listed.

I bartered parts and service to the tune of about $400 for my Blackout. Here are the issues mine had-
problems with most of the inserts and a few other plastic parts
no speech
need of a general shopping
some rust on the legs and lockdown receiver
two bad displays

My cheap route would have been to shop it, fix speech, replace bad displays and throw a playfield protector on it. Instead...I pulled the mylar...this started great and ended up BAD. At this point, I had lot of touch up work to do or get a Hardtop. I chose the latter. This now threw me down the rabbit hole of "well, if I'm replacing this, I should probably that". This project has been very gratifying and occasionally challenging. I'll probably document it all in it's own thread later. If you factored in what I normally charge hourly for a service call for labor, will I be underwater at the end of this? Maybe. If you view this through the lens of, a labor or love and the only real money is in parts...I'll stand to come out ahead a bit. I don't plan to sell the game anytime soon anyway. It will live at our house for a while and then do a stint at our pinball club. I think it's been healthy to absorb myself in this project during quarantine. Stay well and keep yourself buried in pinball projects

#738 3 months ago

I bought a second Blackout two weeks or so ago. It works.
Specifically bought it because it'll be easier for me to fix my basketcase and tweak/improve the working one.
Right now the question is "does it make sense to hardtop either one?"
I mean, I'm already underwater...buy another two hardtops and install them?
Not an attractive alternative.

#739 3 months ago

I'm leaning towards "fixing" this one so it is playable.. repair the heaved mountain in the top above the lanes, and fill in the worst of the inserts.. then try to break even on it.

#740 3 months ago

My plan is to get them both running well and then try to trade one for a comparable working pin like Firepower or Alien Poker or trade up for a system 11 project. Something like that trade scenario is the best I can hope for, I think.
We are playing the hell out of the working one...I think there's room to tweak it and get it really dialed in. I just got almost 400k on the first ball on the game I just played and then drained right down the middle from the spinners on the next two balls.
...maybe we need two Blackouts in our house!
Or maybe I rent one of them to someone for a few hundred bucks for a few months in an attempt to break even and then sell it.

#741 3 months ago
Quoted from Graysonsdad:

Idk about down there and its hard to say how much a Hardtop will increase the value since they are just hitting the market but up.here Blackout is Gorgar level cheap. Under 2k Cdn EVERYTIME. Most expensive Blackout 8ve seen was sold for $1,800cdn. Id imagine a beaty Hardtopped Blackout could fetch closer to $2,500cdn if it ALSO had a repro backglass. This isnt a desirable imvestment pin. Its a labour of love pin. If you dont think you will enjoy it, i would skip all the work, costs and headaches.

Of late best price I have seen was $2000USD

Pity as it is a really fun game with great art and sound, not sure why little love for the title.

#742 3 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

not sure why little love for the title.

System 6

#744 3 months ago

Not sure the reference. What is wrong with System 6?

#745 3 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Not sure the reference. What is wrong with System 6?

Not sure either. Same board set as Firepower and both great machines. Once the original boards have been properly gone through they are solid and work well. Just have to make sure not to cut corners and be aware of all the known issues and updates.

#746 3 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Not sure either. Same board set as Firepower and both great machines. Once the original boards have been properly gone through they are solid and work well. Just have to make sure not to cut corners and be aware of all the known issues and updates.

Fire power is also a sub 2k (cdn) game all day. System 6 are too unreliable for most people is all.

#747 3 months ago
Quoted from Graysonsdad:

Fire power is also a sub 2k (cdn) game all day. System 6 are too unreliable for most people is all.

Probably because those machines hadn't had the appropriate board work done and game properly maintained. You can't cut corners on them. On those boards I prefer to do it once and do it right. Replace both halves of the 40-pin. Replace the old unreliable DIP sockets, clean any oxidation off the tarnished chip leads, REMOVE the rest of the .156" headers to clean off the oxidation on their pins instead of just reflowing. This is important since most of those leads were trimmed too close and have cracked solder joints. With the age it oxidizes down into the hole and on the pin. Just reflowing without cleaning isn't enough. I made a jig that I use for those that pushes about a 1/32" of the pins into the shell of needed to correct ones that were cut too short. Other things like replacing AMI PIA chips or at least keep an eye on them. I've rebuilt many of these sets and specifically 5-6 Blackout sets. Haven't run into reliability issues on any of those.

#748 3 months ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Not sure either. Same board set as Firepower and both great machines. Once the original boards have been properly gone through they are solid and work well. Just have to make sure not to cut corners and be aware of all the known issues and updates.

Have to say mine has been very reliable since being gone through.

#749 3 months ago
Quoted from Graysonsdad:

Fire power is also a sub 2k (cdn) game all day. System 6 are too unreliable for most people is all.

I've got a Blackout that hasn't given me any real trouble since I brought it home over a year ago. System 6 can be reliable but it lacks some the diagnostic tools of a other systems like an 11 or 9. There is something great about this era of pinball ball it screams to the massive leap forward it was over EM. So will there be things that are flaky sure however we live in the future we have the internet to over come the issues of the past. Check out the bullet proofing thread...I've not done that to my Blackout... but if something go batty I will. So far my Blackout.

#750 3 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

not sure why little love for the title.

Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Replace both halves of the 40-pin. Replace the old unreliable DIP sockets, clean any oxidation off the tarnished chip leads, REMOVE the rest of the .156" headers to clean off the oxidation on their pins instead of just reflowing. This is important since most of those leads were trimmed too close and have cracked solder joints. With the age it oxidizes down into the hole and on the pin. Just reflowing without cleaning isn't enough. I made a jig that I use for those that pushes about a 1/32" of the pins into the shell of needed to correct ones that were cut too short. Other things like replacing AMI PIA chips or at least keep an eye on them.

^^this is why^^

I love how you make it seem like no big deal though.
An entry level pin requireing that much work to bullet proof only supports my original response of "system 6"
The AVERAGE system 6 buyer/owner doesnt necessarily have the skill set to do all that work. Get a system 7^ and you are more likely to just need a flipper rebuild. I love me some system 6 but dont explain away all you have to do to make it reliable as if its a cake walk.

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