(Topic ID: 63844)

Black verses White rubber rings.

By MustangPaul

10 years ago


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#1 10 years ago

Besides the color dif. are there any other dif. My LAH came with black rings and flipper rubbers.

#2 10 years ago

Each color has a different hardness. Generally the lighter the color the softer the rubber and more bounce.

#3 10 years ago

So if I went with the white the game would play dif. then what the designers intended rite.

#4 10 years ago

Personally I prefer the white for rings, but not just for their bounce but also the look. For flipper rings each game is different and you should experiment to find what you like the best for each game. If you want to go with what the designer intended look at the photos on the pinball database website
hth.
trip

#5 10 years ago

I generally prefer white. They are bouncier, they make the game brighter, and you can see the dirt easier to keep your game clean. With black rubber, the ball will transfer the extra dirt around, as well as black rubber. Try running your finger along black rubber that has been in a game for any length of time... my fingers turn black even with cleaned rubber rings.

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from Baiter:

I generally prefer white. They are bouncier, they make the game brighter, and you can see the dirt easier to keep your game clean. With black rubber, the ball will transfer the extra dirt around, as well as black rubber. Try running your finger along black rubber that has been in a game for any length of time... my fingers turn black even with cleaned rubber rings.

Good point, never thought about black rings being dirtier.

#7 10 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

So if I went with the white the game would play dif. then what the designers intended rite.

No, most designers design for white, but operators prefer black because it hides dirt. (And ironically creates dirt really.)

#8 10 years ago

Some games like Black Knight 2000 came with both black and white rubber on the same playfield.

SR said he used the white in areas that never got direct flipper hits...

#9 10 years ago

I don't think there is a right answer here. Tron came with black and it's fast. I've been a white rubber racist for years, but I can't picture Tron being bouncy. It's made me rethink all the games I've shopped. I've changed out old black for fresh white many times, but never had a fair comparison. I think most Stern games come with black from the factory.

#10 10 years ago

Keep in mind that in addition to bounce and color, you gave the wear factor. White tends to break down quicker, at least with the currently available compounds being used. There's an excellent thread on RGP (potentially copied to Pinside) from the Pinball Ninja (cfh) - an excellent if not essential read. Sorry can't find it at the moment, but it's worth the search.

#11 10 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

No, most designers design for white...

"The color of rubber on my games is carefully chosen for long wear and good play. White, (and red, yellow, & other color flipper) rubber is "more lively", but I don't always need "more lively" on my machines. The speed of a game is not just controlled by rubber..."

"Gary has nothing to do with the choice of rubber we use on our games. We can freely choose whatever color and durometer of the rubber used on our games. Borgy can choose what he wants, George can choose what he wants and I choose what I want!!!!"

"My games are generally fast and lively enough that I don't lose much when choosing black because it's a little more reliable over a longer period of time. I have seen white mini-post rubbers wear in a couple of weeks on my games, so I won't install them. In the case of BK2K I mixed black and white, with white on the W-A-R lanes for a nicer and more frequent delivery to the upper right flipper. They were not exposed to high-powered flipper shots, or hard wear, and really make a big difference."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.games.pinball/_EWkZ7n7r1s/mXGTG-JMzwsJ

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.pinball/_EWkZ7n7r1s/KvS7H4gUlqkJ

#12 10 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

"The color of rubber on my games is carefully chosen for long wear and good play. White, (and red, yellow, & other color flipper) rubber is "more lively", but I don't always need "more lively" on my machines. The speed of a game is not just controlled by rubber..."
"Gary has nothing to do with the choice of rubber we use on our games. We can freely choose whatever color and durometer of the rubber used on our games. Borgy can choose what he wants, George can choose what he wants and I choose what I want!!!!"
"My games are generally fast and lively enough that I don't lose much when choosing black because it's a little more reliable over a longer period of time. I have seen white mini-post rubbers wear in a couple of weeks on my games, so I won't install them. In the case of BK2K I mixed black and white, with white on the W-A-R lanes for a nicer and more frequent delivery to the upper right flipper. They were not exposed to high-powered flipper shots, or hard wear, and really make a big difference."
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/rec.games.pinball/_EWkZ7n7r1s/mXGTG-JMzwsJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.pinball/_EWkZ7n7r1s/KvS7H4gUlqkJ

Bingo. Great threads on the topic.

#13 10 years ago

And for convenience sake, the snippet from Pinball Ninja, a man who knows his stuff:

[email protected];1967791 Wrote:
> as many know, I don't post to RGP any more. But for this,
> i will make one exception.
> I can offer some facts on rubber that perhaps a lot of people
> don't know. You all may find it useful in rubber choice on games.
>
> First off, rubber today is WAY different than rubber from the
> past. Since the end of "ABC" rubber (which Williams had a
> good share), things have changed in the world of pinball
> rubber. ABC rubber was the standard by which all other
> rubber was and should be compared. It was perfect rubber
> in terms of durometer and durability. I think most people will
> agree on that (at least those that remember ABC rubber.)
>
> Today, largely, there is really just one maker of rubber in Taiwan.
> They hold the molds for Terry (Pinball Life), Steve Young, Marco,
> and the other guys that make rubber. So when you buy Pinball
> Life rubber and you see "PL" on the rubber, it's really no different
> than the other brands (generally speaking, though there are
> some exceptions.) Same formula, just they use the molds
> belonging to whomever is ordering rubber.
>
> That said, today's White rubber is absolute trash. SR is quite
> right that putting white rubber on games today is suicide.
> Today's white rubber is way too soft. It has no longevity, and
> comes apart quickly. (about 3 weeks white mini-posts fall apart
> or rip, and slingshots tear and fall apart.)
>
> I operate games, and frankly I can't use today's white rubber.
> For games in your home, I'm sure it's fine. But out in the
> "commercial world", new white rubber is junk. The formula is bad,
> improper, and useless, in my experience. It's way too soft and
> way too white, and just wears really poorly. For your game room it's
> soft and spongy, really white, and probably works well for the
> 100 to 200 games you'll put on your machines in a year. But out
> in the field, new white rubber does not work in high play
> environments.
>
> I've discussed this with Terry at PL. He doesn't want to change
> things. His customer base is home owners, and they like
> the soft-like-bubble-gum white rubber. So after considerable
> whining to Terry and Mark at Marco by Tim Arnold and myself, Marco
> has come up with a NEW formula for white rubber. We've been testing
> it for Marco, and I have to say, it's a HUGE improvement over
> the stuff everyone else is selling.
>
> So is the new Marco rubber better than ABC rubber of old?
> Frankly, no. I would say the new Marco rubber is a lot like
> the HAPP and WICO rubber of 10 years ago. Not amazing,
> not perfect, but miles ahead of the stuff everyone else is
> selling today. I've found it far more durable on my games.
> I believe Tim Arnold is getting about the same results too.
> Hats off to Marco!
>
> Now a little about the history of rubber. You'll ask how i know
> this useless crap, but i *collect* white rubber. I have stock piles
> of ABC rubber from 15 years ago, brand new, stored in ziplock
> bags, in dark cabinets. I also have Wico, Happ, and a few other
> brands offered over the last 15 years. I have this stuff in huge
> qualities too, so i can test and compare today's rubber to
> the "rubber of old." (It gives a nice point of reference, as I have
> about 10,000 pieces of white rubber in inventory.)
>
> I also have some black rubber too from years ago, but not
> nearly the quantities to do much testing. I will say this about
> black rubber today, it's better than black rubber of old. Today's
> black rubber is actually pretty decent. Hence SR's usage of
> it today is really not a huge factor. Personally I like (vintage)
> white rubber better than today's black rubber, but that's me.
> I completely understand why SR uses black. I mean I don't
> like it, but given the choice of today's black versus today's
> white rubber, black wins in durability by miles. It still looks
> like hell though - clean white rubber will always win in looks.
> (Sorry SR.)
>
> I will say this though. We are operating all the new Sterns,
> including SR's titles. And they all have vintage white rubber on them.
> People come play them and are like, "Wow this game is really
> different, i like it!" The games play more difficult, with different
> bounce properties. Spiderman is the perfect example. With black
> rubber, I find game times to be fairly high (in excess of 5 minutes.)
> Switched to vintage white rubber, and game times are about
> 3 minutes. The game is a lot harder, and frankly a lot more fun!
> Personally i like that, but that's me. Some people find it more
> frustrating, but in the end, that just means they play more games!
>
> We also use vintage ABC rubber on a lot of our games (both
> Tim and I have some inventory of original ABC.) It's still the
> standard that all others should strive. But I've largely moved to
> using vintage ABC on EM games only, and use vintage white Happ
> and Wico (etc.) on the solidstate games. The only "new" white
> rubber I use (other than the Marco stuff) is mini-posts, as i have
> NO old inventory of white mini posts! This really sucks because
> today's white mini-posts last about 3 weeks.
> PLEASE TERRY LISTEN.
>
> I hope this helps everyone. I won't do any follow up posts to
> this. I just hope it helps. Also if you could all support Marco
> and his new flavor of white rubber, I think that would be good
> move (the price of his new rubber is no different than existing
> white rubber.) When ordering you have to talk to Mark about
> getting it, the new Marco white rubber is not the "default"
> rubber that he sells.

#14 10 years ago

This is all GREAT reading. Thanks guys.

#15 10 years ago

So I take it the today's red rubber is junk too. That's in between the black and white as far as softness correct.

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