10k by x-mas

Just sell it. It looks like you will not enjoy it unless you put rubber bands at the drains.

Black Rose can be outline drain happy but its not unplayable. Close the lanes up, increase the angle, and get rid of those lightning flippers. You own the game you should be able to adjust knowing what shots are dangerous. The center shot returns to the right flipper and whirlpool returns the the left which are safe. The flap ramp is dangerous if you don't make it causing it to right drain. You may need to re-build that flipper if your having issues. It can cause frustration like STTNG's Delta ramp if not in tip top shape. Or maybe just get rid of the BlackRose and buy a LOTR and play forever.

Given just how bad you are describing.. Is it possible the play field is bowed?

Weird. I played this machine in Pelham a while back and I was ridiculously good at it. Activated 3-ball MB and Hidden Treasure, sunk 2 ships, and started Double Broadside. I think i got about 100m points by the end.

Try letting the ball roll down the play field repeatedly from different starting spots.. See if you see any weird trajectories

I just got rid of mine...didn't like it at all except for its appearance. Have to say I never had the problems outlined in this thread thou and I DID try changing the level of the game to slow it down but that didn't help me at all. Was happy to see it go. Unknown to me the Cannon motor was bad when I bought it. Still functioned but didn't move...I didn't know any better. Goddamn fellow Pinsider takin advantage of an Old-Timer LOL

Get a steel ruler & place across playfield to see if bowed

I've had a game go on way too long on BR, it can happen, also you can set it up for four ball if it's bothering you that bad.

Garbage game my Azz ,,,,,,

I've owned Black Rose 4 Times , Finely Tuned and Leveled its a Great Pin w/ the Best Pirate call out's N pinball ..

It also lOOks Great Blinged w/ Leds !! I'd Love to Own B_R again 1-day ..

Had one for a couple years, never had that problem, play better. It was our Friday night game at the shop, everyone loved it, played the hell out of it, would definitely own one again. Might not be your cup of tea, sell it and buy something different.

If you want a drain monster buy STTNG, TAF or Pinbot

I am sure you can get it dialed in. Many on here love this title.

Best of luck

A few thoughts on what makes games tough to play. (Perhaps it's not the designer's fault...)

* Sometimes games play worse when the pitch is too flat. I keep all of mine at 6.5'
* Games always play worse when they aren't properly cleaned/waxed/novused. Make sure you have a fast playfield where it counts, especially near the Pops and Outlanes
* Games always play worse without new rubbers, to give you the most bounce where you need to nudge the ball out of the outlanes. I don't know BR, so I don't know how much rubber you have available in the outlanes to jam the ball out of there.

A little story...

I recently had my beloved Cyclone on the chopping block. I was so frustrated with the Barry Orsler outlane drains. I started to whine about it on the forums. I had diagnosed myself with Stage 1 "giving up".

Then xmas break came... I...

1. Novused the mylared playfield
2. Replaced the lower playfield rubbers near the drains
3. Made a 1/32" adjustment on the boomerang shot to make it slightly more make-able
4. Tightened up the center post (which I didn't know was loose)
5. Disassembled and cleaned a few parts for fun to just improve the overall gameplay (ferris wheel, a ramp, etc)
6. Then I played it non-stop over xmas break for about 20 hours with the goal of becoming a better ball-control player like I had seen from others in league. Didn't touch my other games. This one is the 2nd hardest in my collection after Black Knight.

It all worked together in concert. I upped my nudging skills, improved a few flipper skills (live post slam, alley and tap pass) and even got much better at live aim shots (without traps)

Now Cyclone is a total keeper.

Did the game change or did I change? Both. I rose to the challenge that Barry and Python laid before me with an amazing design, and I got better at ball control, and put in a few hours of elbow grease to make sure there was a little more ball control possible.

Tough games make me a better player. Sometimes you have to adjust the games to make them meaner. Sometimes you have to adjust them to make them more playable. Sometimes you have to man up and improve your skill set with dedication.

You have a nice collection, I encourage you to have a "tougher game" in there. First person in the family to crack its secrets will be a star.

The choice is yours...
Become ONE with the game, and learn what new skills it has to offer you...
or blame the pinball gods for this cursed game that has fallen into your lap.

-mof

This should be moved to that newest subforum.

star post should help some drains, looks pretty open.

I owned it, hated it, SOLD it!! LOL

Was wondering when you were going to show up man!

if you think Black Rose is a drain monster you should try BSD!!

It's Really Hard to Keep an eYe on Ever Thread ,, they get Buried Quick these day's !!

I'd like to get another BR & i know where 1 is and it's 4-Sale .. I might jump on it .. maybe

Here's the Last BR I bought , i bought the TAF also .. The guy couldn't afford his 4 K a month mortgage

so I did him a Favor and bought his Very Nice lOOk-n Pins ... Yes I Scored !!!

and BSD is by Far my Fav- Pin , well after Ironman ( that i sold ) My BSD has been in the GRG for almost 5 yr's

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least the game looks nice. I had one for a awhile. It was my first restore. took a turd and shined it up really nice. Game was too clunky and didn't like the ruleset enough to keep it. I do like the unique playfield layout and theme. Just needed to get rid of those video modes. Change some of the voice calls, and smooth out that ramp system.

Wish you luck in making this playable. Had played black rose some years ago and it was a ball drainer who knows could be the very same machine. Walked away form it wondering how a machine could have a great theme and look so good but play like crap.

Play better!

I played a somewhat poorly playing one yesterday at CP Pinball. Even with the wrong flippers and an unlevel cannon I really liked it. I am definitely going to keep my eye out for a non faded example.

Somethings Ive done to make some of my games more family friendly .Change top slingshot post from star post to skinny plastic post to open up return lanes. Change post on outlane drain lane to double rubber star post .Get rid of lighting flippers and change to standard . Make sure playfield is level ,increase ball saver time a couple seconds .I now a challenging game makes you a better player but if your family and casual players don't like it what fun is that

All great suggestions.

Robert

I would like to take this piece of crap off of your hands. $1,000 shipped?

I played one at PAGG a few years ago, probably 8 or so. I thought it looked sharp, and it seemed to play OK.

I thought about getting one, but I couldn't find one at the time. Then Rob Bell got one, and then sold it; so I figured that it wasn't a keeper long term.

I did enjoy it at PAGG, but the ball times were really short if I remember correctly.

Robert

Hey OP, I do not like your title! Black Rose appears to be a kick ass game. It is going to be released in Pinball Arcade in the next week or so and I am looking forward to playing it virtually. I have played it on Visual Pinball it looked pretty fun too.

If you do not like it, (personal choice) please sell it to someone who does (like me)

Thanks dude!

Try nudging out of the drains? Never had a problem putting in good games here and there. Pinball is designed to defeat you, some games are just better and faster at it.

check under the PF hooks to the front of the cabinet, maybe theyre uneven or grimey underneath?

Use the leg levelers to level the the pin more to the inside, raise up the outsides of the playfield so it drains more centered, GL!

Damn...just loaded this up. Should I turn around?

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Grats Monster!

I take it yours is? I have seen very few that aren't faded.

There is a very nice one at the silver ballroom. I play it every time I go in. It's an odd layout but there are more punishing games

I played one again last night and kicked some ass on it. I really do like the game, it's a bummer you have such a hard time with yours.
I've been keeping a lazy eye out to buy one for over a year now. I've seen a few pop up locally but never when I had cash to blow

Get in line dude. I made the same offer 3 days earlier.

That was probably my buddy's BR. His game is BRUTALLY hard. I am by no means a fan of the game (I find it a little easy), but it can be made to play decent and looks really good with the proper use of LEDs.

If you find the game too hard, use bigger posts for the outlanes. Once your skills improve, go back to the originals. I tend to like harder games as they keep my attention longer.

We need one in Springfield